T&T: Xantrex MS3000 Inverter Experience?

[Gary Bell]

Tom said:  <snip>

  Has anyone experience
their charger only putting out about 80 amps?

Gary replies:

Sure.  I assume we're not talking about float charge, but about the total
current available say during absorption phase.  Lots of things limit charger
output, including the amount of high voltage current available, settings in
the Link2000 or the charger, age and condition of the batteries, is your
system temperature sensing?, etc..  If your inverter is running a significant
load your charger will have less power at its input, and therefore less
output.
In other words, there are lots of factors, and a failing charger is only one
of them.

Having said that, I curse the Xantrex Prosine 2000 my boat was equipped with
originally.  Within two years it went totally berserk and took the house bank
with it.  Xantrex was not at all helpful, said they couldn't say what was
wrong, didn't have ANY parts whatever for it, said they couldn't work on them,
said it couldn't be fixed, said it wasn't their fault and then they offered a
still working Prosine for half off or a 15% discount on the MS3000.  They
didn't want the old unit back for any reason whatever.  They said that the hot
new MS3000 was a better design than their previous hot new model the
Prosine...  In checking around I found I had lots of company in that
situation.  I have not followed MS3000 reports, but your inquiry should bring
more out if the quality is what I expect.  I was BITTERLY disappointed in
Xantrex and can find no reason to suspect that they have improved.

Tom continued:

I'm thinking of buying the Xantrex MS3000 Inverter/charger simply because it
fits in the old spot, charges at 150 amps and is pure sine wave. Do any
boaters have good or bad experience with these units?  I've heard good
things about other brands such as Victron, but those units only charge at
100 amps and I have no simple place to put two Victron units in the same
space.

Gary replies:

I got the Victron Phoenix Multi Plus 12/3000/120 with the non-digital remote
control panel and their VMB-602 battery monitor.  At the same time I swapped
out the two tiny GC2 house bank (at 200 ah(20hr rate) for a pair of honkin'
820 ah(20hr rate) Rolls batteries (two 6 v monsters weighing in at 320 pound
each).  I am 'over the moon happy' about the new rig, and would (am)
enthusiastically recommend(ing) it to anyone wanting a sophisticated, robust
and capable system.  I had lots of help selecting the components, several from
this list included.  see the product spec sheet here:

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet%20-%20Phoenix%20Multi
plus%20120V%20US%20-%20rev%2003%20-%20EN.pdf

I don't understand why you mentioned the Heart unit in singular, but you wrote
about the Victron as needing two units.  You weren't thinking of charging a
single bank with two chargers, were you?  My Multi-Plus puts out UP TO a
genuine 120 amp charge current.  'Current' practice suggests limiting charger
capacity to about 20% of the 20 hour battery rating, to avoid serious
overheating, boiling off electrolyte, plate damage, possible hydrogen
explosions, electric fires, ruptured cases and lots of spilled acid, and of
course the need for such huge battery cables.  I don't recall reading about
piggybacking two of anybody's chargers on the same bank, where design issues
would include which one was master and which slave, how to keep one charger
from seeing the other as a load, without diodes which drop half a volt off,
making the charge phase controls not work, etc.?  If I simply missed them I'm
sure my good buddies here on the list will point that out, and then we will
all know better.

The pure sine wave output of the Victron is 3000 VA continuous, 6000 VA for
starting compressors etc. with their Power Assist (automatically supplements
the shore or genset power from the battery for starting loads -- not just for
a moment, as most other systems will do, to a limited extent, but until the
battery bank is discharged to it's set end point if needed.  The inverter also
works as an UPS, switching from a failing shore or genset source to the
inverter (in phase) in less than 20 milliseconds, so digital stuff in the load
never knows there was a problem.  When shore or genset power becomes available
it automatically tests the freshly applied power for quality and for about
half a minute phase matches its inverter output to the new source before
switching off the inverter, so the 'beat goes on' continuously without a
glitch for the 120 v load.  The only thing that changes when the inverter cuts
out is that the LEDs on the control panel change and you hear a dull click.
You don't have to shut everything down to change sources.  It also manages the
charger input to compliment the inverter demand, so I can keep my genset on
it's 80% load without fiddling with 120 v load -- it simply puts any surplus
into the charger.

I would be glad to share all the lurid details of my installation and offer my
pretty skilled amateur advice, if you like.  We would start with questions
such as:  How big is your house bank?  How big is your genset and how much
current can you bring aboard from the dock?  Are you a single leg 120 v
system;a two leg 120 v system with a parallel switch to run on a single genset
or shore cord; a 120 v - 0 - 120 v split system with one or more 240 v loads;
a two leg 120 v/240 v system or what?  Shore power 30A single, two 30A cords,
50A single or double cords, or a single 50A 125/250 v (often called four
wire)?  Similar question for the genset(s).  Should the inverter/charger be in
the engine room (heat, splashes, fumes and vibration issues), or is there a
better place where you can get the cable runs as short as possible? BTW, never
put the charger/inverter in the same small space as the batteries, where fumes
and heat will eat up your equipment and/or burn down your boat, whichever is
the least convenient for you.

Clearly I'm a huge booster of the Victron electronics and Rolls batteries, and
love to drone on about them.  I have no relationship or interest in either
beyond being a very happy customer.



Thanks for your questions Tom,

Gary Bell,
aka that old drone "Mister Science"