T&T: Surveys / Trademarks

[Leonard Brunotte]

One principal aspect of this discussion seems to be the legality of ripping
off the surveyor by pilfering his work product and in general: Should we
ignore copyright law per se.

Kindest regards,
Leonard Brunotte

-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces at lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces at lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of
Keith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:24 AM
To: 'Paul M. Konnersman'
Cc: 'T&T List'
Subject: Re: T&T: Surveys / Trademarks


My god! So now we have to hire a lawyer to make a contract to do the work to
get a survey?? You guys have completely lost your mind. And you're going to
argue now with the Copyright Office?

As for Marin's comment "So the bottom line----- if a surveyor puts a
copyright statement on his survey, it's copyrighted. If he doesn't, it's not
copyrighted", that's easy. Just don't accept or pay for the survey if it has
a copyright statement on it.

I keep asking, why would a surveyor want to sue a customer? Of course by
asking this question I'm sure we'll continue to beat this horse to death for
another month or so. It's amazing we've been getting and using surveys for
all these years without ending up in litigation with a battery of lawyers.



Keith
_____



________________________________

From: Paul M. Konnersman [mailto:konnersman at comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:48 PM
To: Keith
Cc: T&T List
Subject: Re: T&T: Surveys / Trademarks


I don't know that it really matters to the participants in this thread, but
I think it's worth noting some confusions here in case someone is actually
relying on this.



	"What does copyright protect?
	Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original
works of
	authorship ...
	Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of
operation,
	although it may protect the way these things are expressed.

	Note that a copyright cannot protect "facts". A survey is a finding
of
	facts, or at least you hope it is! It also lists a boat's systems. I
do not
	believe a survey falls under "literary, dramatic, musical or
artistic
	works".


A survey REPORT is a work of authorship. It is a particular way of
expressing  a finding of facts and as such is copyrighted from the moment it
is expressed on paper, CD-ROM, email, etc.


	Next: "Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
	No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the
moment
	the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish
to
	bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work."

	So unless the surveyor applies for and is granted a copyright for
each and
	every survey he produces, he has no basis to sue you. But why the
hell would
	he?



One applies for, and if successful, is granted patents and trademarks, but
not copyrights. Copyright is automatic. The legal standing of a copyright
can be enhanced by registration, but it exists and can be asserted whether
or not registered.


	Now, here is their circular "Copyright Basics":
	http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf

	"Who Can Claim Copyright?
	Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created
	in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship
	immediately becomes the property of the author who created
	the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights
	through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

	In the case of works made for hire, the employer and not
	the employee is considered to be the author. Section 101 of
	the copyright law defines a "work made for hire" as:

	1 a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or
	her employment; or

	2 a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as:
	.. a contribution to a collective work
	.. a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work
	.. a translation
	.. a supplementary work
	.. a compilation
	.. an instructional text
	.. a test
	.. answer material for a test
	.. an atlas
	if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument
	signed by them that the work shall be considered a work
	made for hire."

	You could consider a survey a compilation, of facts, neither of
which is
	eligible for copyright protection. Is the surveyor an employee? I
don't
	know. You can go to those links above for much more information. I
guess if
	we wanted to be super safe, we could add the "work for hire"
terminology to
	the surveys we commission and pay for. Sheesh!

	I still think it's silly to even be discussing this is this much
detail.
	Does anybody really think that a surveyor is going to copyright the
survey,
	then sue you later if you give/sell it to someone else? He wouldn't
be in
	business for long.



Issues of work for hire, ownership of work product and copyright ownership
are best addressed in the contract covering the work.
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