From stevena48@earthlink.net Fri Jun 1 00:34:45 2001 From: stevena48@earthlink.net (Steve Anderson) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:34:45 -0700 Subject: TWL: Brig Dingies Message-ID: <027501c0ea54$3cf956e0$aab3143f@stevescompute> I am looking at Brig dingies since a friend bought one. Made in the Ukraine, of all places, and imported into Canada and can then be shipped into the US. Good prices, especially on a Mercury/Boat package. Any comments based in experience out there? Steve Anderson / Go Huskies! From deering@ak.net Fri Jun 1 02:32:14 2001 From: deering@ak.net (Robert Deering) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:32:14 -0800 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: More on binoculars In-Reply-To: <1e.16891cb0.2847c243@aol.com> Message-ID: <000101c0ea64$985c9f50$d512ed18@deer1> "Autofocus binoculars are the equivalent of a fixed focus camera. The focus is permanently set just shy of infinity. Accomodation of the user's eye is relied on to see nearby objects. Anyone who can get a clear image of an object 25 ft. away must have young, non-presbyopic eyeballs." THAT explains it! Last summer I could see just objects pretty clearly at 25' through them. This year it's more like 40'. I was thinking that the dang binocs were failing. Glad to hear that it's only my eyes! {8>) -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com] On Behalf Of LRZeitlin@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 7:50 AM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Re: More on binoculars Traditional land based binoculars a half century ago focused by using a central screw that moved a bridge that held both eyepieces. The in and out motion of the eyepieces varied the internal volume slightly and encouraged moisture and dust laden air to find its way inside the body. For hard seagoing use, when waterproofing greases and seals were in their infancies, most marine binoculars had individually focusing eyepieces. You had to adjust each eyepiece to focus but, of course, you didn't need diopter correction for eye refraction differences. This was OK for the Navy since most of the time the binocular was focused at infinity. It usually meant that it was difficult to hand off a pair of binoculars to a buddy since he/she would have to fiddle with the individual eyepieces to get a clear image. Many modern binoculars, particularly the slim roof prism types, focus by moving an internal element. There is no change in internal volume with this type of focusing. The body can be sealed against moisture intrusion and the more expensive models fill the interior with dry nitrogen gas during manufacture. Traditional lovers still like the individually focused eyepieces, especially with 7 x 50 "Navy" type binoculars but there is no longer any real advantage to this type of construction. Autofocus binoculars are the equivalent of a fixed focus camera. The focus is permanently set just shy of infinity. Accomodation of the user's eye is relied on to see nearby objects. Anyone who can get a clear image of an object 25 ft. away must have young, non-presbyopic eyeballs. The sole advantage of these glasses is price and simplicity. A pair or two of these glasses on board is good for guests. "It ain't a liability, it's a feature." I was asked what kind of binoculars I personally use. I confess to being a binocular junkie. I have a drawer full of binoculars, one pair dating back to my long deceased Uncle Oscar's stint as a merchant seaman in 1900. From smallest to largest, I have an excellent Leitz 8 x 20BC shirt pocket sized bi nocular, two Bushnell (now Bausch and Lomb) long eye relief Custom Compacts, one 6 x 24 and one 7 x 25. These are my favorite boating daylight glasses. I also have a Nikon 9 x 26 birdwatching glass, my old Army issue Wollensack 6 x 30, a razor sharp Meade 8 x 32, a Jason very long eye relief 7 x 35 designed to be used with eyeglasses, a WW2 era Bausch and Lomb 7 x 50 navy issue watchkeeping glass (individual focus, weighs a ton), and a West Marine 7 x 50 cheapie that performs better than the old WW2 binocs. I also have a 20 x 60 Wollensack catadioptric hand held spotting telescope with far too much power to be used in a marine environment. Finally, I have a pretty good Israeli image intensifying night glass for blundering around harbors on moonless nights. I covet a few recent Leica, Zeiss, and Steiner binoculars but my wife has put her dainty foot down. Larry Zeitlin From flyjbaker624@aol.com Fri Jun 1 03:00:22 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 03:00:22 EDT Subject: TWL: M/Y vs' M/V vs' Motoryacht In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8b.77208b5.28489786@aol.com> In a message dated 5/31/2001 1:30:18 PM Central Daylight Time, samakijoe@mediaone.net writes: << On the radio I use "trawler" >> Joe, I know there is some tongue in cheek here but if you use trawler on the radio, most of the time other commercial traffic will think you are a commercial fishing vessel. John From klemmons@airmail.net Fri Jun 1 08:10:52 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 07:10:52 -0500 Subject: TWL: Custom carpet Message-ID: <3B17864C.4B9E6624@airmail.net> Phil wrote: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 07:54:52 -0700 From: Phil Ryker Subject: TWL: Custom Made Carpet... I have a 1980 44' Trojan Motor Yacht and would like to replace the carpet in both the lower helm station and upper flybridge. The carpet that is __________________________ I would lay all the pieces down like a jigsaw puzzle to figure out the best use of new carpet, then run down to Home Depot or Lowes and get the right amount. You can cut it yourself and install the snaps, if you get a snap installer from a store somewhere. If you want to get fancy, you can have a carpet company sew an edge on it for you. Just depends on how much work you want to do yourself. You could also just get a yacht interior company to do the whole job, or maybe even a canvas shop. You'll really pay for the work though! -- __________________ Keith Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy. From klemmons@airmail.net Fri Jun 1 08:14:29 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 07:14:29 -0500 Subject: TWL: Sizing a holding tank Message-ID: <3B178725.51511B3A@airmail.net> Jeff wrote: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:44:12 -0700 From: "Jeff Patton" Subject: TWL: How to size a holding tank? We have an MSD installed but I think I need to install a black water holding... ____________________ Get the thickest poly tank you can find, and just fit the biggest one you can get into the space. You'll be glad you did later. I'd recommend using Sealand's odorsafe hose too. It's very expensive, but nothing else comes close in odor permeability performance, and you really only want to do this job once! -- __________________ Keith BACHELOR: A man who never makes the same mistake once. From klemmons@airmail.net Fri Jun 1 08:30:51 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 07:30:51 -0500 Subject: TWL: Fuel Filters Message-ID: <3B178AFB.59DEA662@airmail.net> Richard Morrison asked about fuel filters... A lot of info. is available on the Trawlerworld site at: http://www.trawlerworld.com/c_features_06.htm One of the findings was that the Lehman system doesn't circulate near the fuel you would think it would, so the flow is pretty low. I doubt whether the centrifugal separators would work, unless they're sized correctly for the low flow rate. Take a look. Here are another set of filters you might look at too. I've been thinking about them, but I have to research element availability. I imagine you can get Racor cartridges anywhere, but not sure about the Separs. http://www.separ.com/ -- __________________ Keith Al Gore is proof that Tennessee has a sense of humor. From jgaquin@ici.net Fri Jun 1 08:46:44 2001 From: jgaquin@ici.net (John Gaquin) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:46:44 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Custom carpet In-Reply-To: <3B17864C.4B9E6624@airmail.net> Message-ID: <000e01c0ea98$ebaebd80$b412b4cf@computer> ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith > __________________________ > I would lay all the pieces down like a jigsaw puzzle......... then run down to Home >Depot...... you can have a carpet company sew an edge on it for you. If you're going to have the new pieces edgebound, do it right away, immediately after cutting. Once the carpet's been walked on, they are loath to run it through their machine, lest a bit of grit jam up the works I ran into this problem with a few small pieces on the Queen. Regards, John Gaquin m/v Brefnie Queen, 32' Luhrs in the shed at Kazmiera Marina Haverhill, MA From rmcleran@ix.netcom.com Fri Jun 1 08:56:09 2001 From: rmcleran@ix.netcom.com (Bob McLeran) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:56:09 -0400 Subject: TWL: M/Y vs' M/V vs' Motoryacht In-Reply-To: <8b.77208b5.28489786@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B1790E9.C42CB4EB@ix.netcom.com> Exactly! That's why I always identify myself as a "pleasure trawler!" The commercial captains always seem to know what that means, and can readily identify my boat. flyjbaker624@aol.com wrote: > I know there is some tongue in cheek here but if you use trawler on the > radio, most of the time other commercial traffic will think you are a > commercial fishing vessel. -- Bob McLeran rmcleran@ix.netcom.com M/V "Sanderling" Docked at Point Patience Marina Hailing port: Wianno MA Solomons, MD Hampton 35 Trawler From Awgertoo@aol.com Fri Jun 1 09:47:54 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:47:54 EDT Subject: TWL: M/Y vs' M/V vs' Motoryacht In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27.1653734b.2848f70a@aol.com> In a message dated 6/1/01 8:56:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmcleran@ix.netcom.com writes: << pleasure trawler >> redundant.... From zeekstah@ktc.com Fri Jun 1 09:54:40 2001 From: zeekstah@ktc.com (Zeke Anderson) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:54:40 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re: Brig Dingies In-Reply-To: <027501c0ea54$3cf956e0$aab3143f@stevescompute> Message-ID: <00e401c0eaa2$6890de60$31c7a3d1@uwqbc> > I am looking at Brig dingies since a friend bought one. Made in the > Ukraine, of all places, and imported into Canada and can then be shipped > into the US. Good prices, especially on a Mercury/Boat package. Any > comments based in experience out there? > > > > > Steve Anderson / Go Huskies! > > > Steve, I bought a 9'10" Brig RIB (Falcon) from Barry, along with a Johnson 9.9 2 cycle OB. Buy the boat from him for abt $1600 US and get the motor at cost, abt $1200. There is no sales tax. Abt $300 shipping with or without the motor. This is abt $1700 less than showroom prices. The boat is high quality, comparable to boats selling for $2600 and higher. He will invoice the boat very low so that registering it will be cheaper, adds the difference to the motor. I took a Johnson over a Merc based on reputation only, not experience. The Johnson started on the first pull. Zeke Anderson PT 38 Texas Cookin' Rockport TX From Joe@JRE.com Fri Jun 1 10:53:22 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 07:53:22 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Changing GPS batteries and the GPS Acquire Mode Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE726149D@WINNTSRV> This makes little sense to me. A GPS is either locked into the satellite signals and transmitting data or it is not. There is no kinda working mode. The navigation system either is receiving good data from the GPS or it is not. If it is getting good data the light is green. It cannot be getting corrupted data I suspect something else was going on in this case. Joe Engel -----Original Message----- From: MarkusRitter@hotmail.com To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Sent: 5/31/01 3:16 PM Subject: TWL: Changing GPS batteries and the GPS Acquire Mode Once, when the GPS batteries, on the GPS that was hooked up to the laptop, went dead. From jim@mccorison.com Fri Jun 1 12:59:53 2001 From: jim@mccorison.com (Jim McCorison) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:59:53 -0700 Subject: TWL: Custom Made Carpet... Message-ID: <3B17CA09.33BAD968@mccorison.com> Phil, We are currently researching the same issues. One thing we found, much to our surprise, was how much the indoor/outdoor variety of carpeting has improved over the years. The stuff that we found at our local Box Store (Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) had nice variations of available patterns and colors and felt comfortable to the touch. (important for the bare feet) Once we're done with the rewiring, heating, sanding, painting, etc., etc., etc., we'll use one of these carpets. In theory, when they get dirty or have a build up of salt water, you should be able to take them up, place them on the dock and hose them down with no ill affect. At least that's our fantasy. :) Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From jim@mccorison.com Fri Jun 1 13:03:31 2001 From: jim@mccorison.com (Jim McCorison) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 10:03:31 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cell Phone antenna Message-ID: <3B17CAE3.2AA78CDB@mccorison.com> Jim Donohue wrote: > It needs only to be very conductive. Al will work fine. Jim Stan, If what Jim writes is correct, then simply using caulking to hold the antenna down will not work. You will need to ensure a solid electrical connection between to two surfaces. I don't know squat about the subject of cell phone antennas. Just pointing out the issues as I read them. Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From PRyker@Affinity.com Fri Jun 1 13:10:31 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:10:31 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03F92@exchange.affinityla.com> Interesting... So, should I be looking at using a "marinized" carpet. What I mean is a carpet made for the marine environment or is any indoor/outdoor carpet acceptable? I was under the impression that I should try to use a marine grade carpet. Phil M/Y Voyager 44' Trojan -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCorison [mailto:jim@mccorison.com] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:00 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Custom Made Carpet... Phil, We are currently researching the same issues. One thing we found, much to our surprise, was how much the indoor/outdoor variety of carpeting has improved over the years. The stuff that we found at our local Box Store (Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) had nice variations of available patterns and colors and felt comfortable to the touch. (important for the bare feet) Once we're done with the rewiring, heating, sanding, painting, etc., etc., etc., we'll use one of these carpets. In theory, when they get dirty or have a build up of salt water, you should be able to take them up, place them on the dock and hose them down with no ill affect. At least that's our fantasy. :) Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From miahpaih@terra.es Fri Jun 1 13:27:39 2001 From: miahpaih@terra.es (LUIS MARTINEZ) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:27:39 +0200 Subject: TWL: RE: RV: Boating in Spain In-Reply-To: <002001c0ea32$baa95da0$27ed4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Message-ID: <001a01c0eac0$348c3c40$f17863d5@oemcomputer> Dear M. Kenneth and all In order to have all the information you requested and more, pls check the following page, http://www.navegar.com/ (guide), there you can find all the ports even with plans to enter, but in any case if you need aditional information, pleased to investigate for you. Cheers Luis From mknott@bcpl.net Fri Jun 1 13:30:37 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:30:37 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B15BD5C@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From Phil Ryker ===== >Interesting... > >So, should I be looking at using a "marinized" carpet. What I mean is a >carpet made for the marine environment or is any indoor/outdoor carpet >acceptable? I was under the impression that I should try to use a marine >grade carpet. > Oh no, not again! Jerome Schroeder, did you put Phil up to this?!? ;) Phil, I think for the purpose of recreational boating, outdoor carpet is outdoor carpet. It probably stands just as good a chance getting mouldy and rotten on your patio at home as on your sundeck on your boat. Mel Knott From PRyker@Affinity.com Fri Jun 1 13:31:37 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:31:37 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03F95@exchange.affinityla.com> Oh no... I did not mean to start this up again. I was just curious. I did not know if there was a difference or not. Sorry about the following barrage of email that appears to be inevitable. Phil M/Y Voyager 44' Trojan -----Original Message----- From: mknott [mailto:mknott@bcpl.net] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:31 PM To: jim; Phil Ryker; trawler-world-list Subject: RE: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... >===== Original Message From Phil Ryker ===== >Interesting... > >So, should I be looking at using a "marinized" carpet. What I mean is a >carpet made for the marine environment or is any indoor/outdoor carpet >acceptable? I was under the impression that I should try to use a marine >grade carpet. > Oh no, not again! Jerome Schroeder, did you put Phil up to this?!? ;) Phil, I think for the purpose of recreational boating, outdoor carpet is outdoor carpet. It probably stands just as good a chance getting mouldy and rotten on your patio at home as on your sundeck on your boat. Mel Knott From pkoch@dtex.com Fri Jun 1 13:37:42 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:37:42 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: Custom Made Carpet... Message-ID: Definitely 'marinized' and approved by the ABYC! Paul -----Original Message----- From: Phil Ryker [mailto:PRyker@Affinity.com] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:11 PM To: 'jim@mccorison.com'; trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... Interesting... So, should I be looking at using a "marinized" carpet. What I mean is a carpet made for the marine environment or is any indoor/outdoor carpet acceptable? I was under the impression that I should try to use a marine grade carpet. Phil M/Y Voyager 44' Trojan -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCorison [mailto:jim@mccorison.com] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:00 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Custom Made Carpet... Phil, We are currently researching the same issues. One thing we found, much to our surprise, was how much the indoor/outdoor variety of carpeting has improved over the years. The stuff that we found at our local Box Store (Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) had nice variations of available patterns and colors and felt comfortable to the touch. (important for the bare feet) Once we're done with the rewiring, heating, sanding, painting, etc., etc., etc., we'll use one of these carpets. In theory, when they get dirty or have a build up of salt water, you should be able to take them up, place them on the dock and hose them down with no ill affect. At least that's our fantasy. :) Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From pkoch@dtex.com Fri Jun 1 13:40:33 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:40:33 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mel, Of course it should at least be approved by the ABYC, they must have a code for carpet ;) Paul -----Original Message----- From: mknott [mailto:mknott@bcpl.net] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:31 PM To: jim; Phil Ryker; trawler-world-list Subject: RE: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... >===== Original Message From Phil Ryker ===== >Interesting... > >So, should I be looking at using a "marinized" carpet. What I mean is a >carpet made for the marine environment or is any indoor/outdoor carpet >acceptable? I was under the impression that I should try to use a marine >grade carpet. > Oh no, not again! Jerome Schroeder, did you put Phil up to this?!? ;) Phil, I think for the purpose of recreational boating, outdoor carpet is outdoor carpet. It probably stands just as good a chance getting mouldy and rotten on your patio at home as on your sundeck on your boat. Mel Knott From skurowski@home.com Fri Jun 1 13:46:37 2001 From: skurowski@home.com (Stan Kurowski) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:46:37 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Cell Phone antenna In-Reply-To: <3B17CAE3.2AA78CDB@mccorison.com> Message-ID: Jim M., I read it that the plate needed to be a conductor (AL works), not that the antenna base had to be electrically connected. The magnetic base is supposed to work through layers of auto paint. Also, look at the cell antennas attached to a window of the car with a plate on the inside, no electrical connection there, the RF couples thru the glass. I just wasn't sure if the magnetic base needed to be coupled to a ferrous base for the RF coupling to work, or as it appears, the close proximity of the base to a conductive plate will work and the magnet is only to keep the antenna in place on a ferrous plate (i.e., car top). I'll keep it in place with a bead of caulk. Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA >SNIP > > Jim Donohue wrote: > > It needs only to be very conductive. Al will work fine. Jim > > Stan, > > If what Jim writes is correct, then simply using caulking to hold the > antenna down will not work. You will need to ensure a solid electrical > connection between to two surfaces. >SNIP > Jim McCorison > M/V Maana > Seattle, WA From jschroeder1@uswest.net Fri Jun 1 13:48:37 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:48:37 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... In-Reply-To: <3B15BD5C@webmail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: Absolutely. If you haven't bought your carpet at West Marine or BoatUS, and it doesn't have an official okey-dokey marinized sticker, it will rot in saltwater and form a chemical compound that will eat thru your hull. That's what you are paying the extra 50% for. You've been warned. There are other problems to consider. The float where I moor is ancient wood. When wet (this is Seattle) it can be very slippery. To solve the problem, I stapled some excess outdoor carpet (non-marinized) on the surface. Works great. Unfortunately it attracts the resident Canadian Geese population, and they do their damndest to make it slippery again. Where some cities have pigeons, we have geese. Jerry Schroeder M/Y Surprise 21' R21 Troller Ballard,WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of mknott > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:31 AM > To: jim; Phil Ryker; trawler-world-list > Subject: RE: TWL: RE: Custom Made Carpet... > > > >===== Original Message From Phil Ryker ===== > >Interesting... > > > >So, should I be looking at using a "marinized" carpet. What I mean is a > >carpet made for the marine environment or is any indoor/outdoor carpet > >acceptable? I was under the impression that I should try to use a marine > >grade carpet. > > > Oh no, not again! Jerome Schroeder, did you put Phil up to this?!? ;) > > Phil, I think for the purpose of recreational boating, outdoor carpet is > outdoor carpet. It probably stands just as good a chance getting > mouldy and > rotten on your patio at home as on your sundeck on your boat. > > Mel Knott > > From IMIS@compuserve.com Fri Jun 1 13:58:23 2001 From: IMIS@compuserve.com (Al Golden) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:58:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cruising Plans, Winnie the Pooh to the Erie Canal Message-ID: <200106011358_MC3-D3EA-7E8E@compuserve.com> Mark: We're on the Wye River, about 8 miles north of St Mikes, or 4 miles north of the entrance. Cruisers are always welcome! Al Golden International Marine Insurance Svcs 1-800-541-4647 From Chiropaul@aol.com Fri Jun 1 15:08:10 2001 From: Chiropaul@aol.com (Chiropaul@aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:08:10 EDT Subject: TWL: Heading Home - Finally!! Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Back in March, I mentioned that I had purchased a 1981 44' Atlantic trawler. Well, it took forever to finalize the deal, but as of yesterday, 5/31 she belongs to my wife Brenda and I. After closing the deal, I began to load the boat for a short 2 + day trip back to the south shore of Long Island. You' would think I was moving aboard permanently at this point! I then spent the next six hours, going over all the system, topping up the steering system( great fun trying to pressurize with a screw on bicycle pump). Finally realized my relexes were not as fast as the ability of the system to lose pressure when disconnecting the pump, so ran to local K-Mart for a quality pump with a level to release. AHHHHH! Generally all systems are go for departure tomorrow morning. Plan to make it a short run from the Bay Bridge Marina in Stevensville, MD to Chesapeake City on the C&D canal. From there on Sunday up to Atlantic City, NJ and then on Monday to East Rockaway, NY a total of about 220 nm. List member Bob Siegel dropped by yesterday to see the boat and say hi and told me he is leaving in two weeks for a 2 month sojourn down the ICW. It's great to put a face to a name. I'll probably be back on line with a report on the trip next week sometime. Meanwhile, praying the weather holds!! Regards, Paul Schlechter Heart's Desire 44 Atlantic MY From mknott@bcpl.net Fri Jun 1 15:27:45 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:27:45 -0400 Subject: TWL: Heading Home - Finally!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B15E11F@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From Chiropaul@aol.com ===== >Hi Everyone, >Back in March, I mentioned that I had purchased a 1981 44' Atlantic trawler. >Well, it took forever to finalize the deal, but as of yesterday, 5/31 she >belongs to my wife Brenda and I. Congratulations and have a safe trip. Sorry you have to leave the "Land of Pleasant Living." Mel From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jun 1 16:28:54 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:28:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: Lehman diesel heritage Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1EE3@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> I know that most of the diesels used to power boats up to 80 feet or so are marinized versions of engines that were initially developed for use in cars, trucks, busses, tractors, or construction equipment. I have been told that until fairly recently, most of the diesel engines Ford used in its larger trucks were actually made in the UK and shipped to the assembly plants in the US. This was apparently the case with the 120 hp Ford diesel marinized by Lehman that so many of us have in our older trawlers. I am curious if anyone on this list knows which Ford or other vehicles used the "stock" version of this engine, either in the UK or in the US. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From mbirch@wei.org Fri Jun 1 16:37:28 2001 From: mbirch@wei.org (Murray Birch) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:37:28 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Lehman diesel heritage Message-ID: <978DB81B216DD211AD1200805F659F6703F07A0A@s1903607.wei.org> << I am curious if anyone on this list knows which Ford or other vehicles used the "stock" version of this engine, either in the UK or in the US.>> I was under the impression that the base engine we use in our trawlers was not really a vehicle engine per se but a Ford industrial engine used in tractors, cranes, generators, pumps, etc. It was an extremely popular engine and I gather they sold lots of them. They are also renowned to be extremely hardy if you just do the simple maintenance that is required. As usual, they have their quirks but generally are regarded as a good engine for their purpose. One of the guys at Doc Freeman's in Seattle did a lot of work with them in the UK and knows a lot about them if you are really interested. Murray Birch Alaska Spirit 50' Puget Trawler From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 1 16:31:25 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:31:25 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: RV: Boating in Spain In-Reply-To: <001a01c0eac0$348c3c40$f17863d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000001c0eadb$5babd860$17eb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Many Thanks , Ken From jim@mccorison.com Fri Jun 1 16:53:23 2001 From: jim@mccorison.com (Jim McCorison) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:53:23 -0700 Subject: TWL: 10' - 12' fiberglass dingy Message-ID: <3B1800C3.4FC0383D@mccorison.com> Phil, Check out Gig Harbor Boat Works http://www.ghboats.com. (their site is temporarily down as I write this) We had their 9' sailing dinghy and were quite satisfied by it. It rowed like a dream and sailed nicely in a stiff breeze. But it wouldn't point worth a damn in light air. We had a Susuki 3hp outboard for it which was really too heavy. I choose the engine because of F-N-R and remote fuel tank. I planned to store the engine in the engine room and didn't want gas in there. Anyway, a 2hp for that size would have been much better. If I were to get another I'd pick a larger size instead. While they are not as stable as the Boston Whaler or Livingston type dinghies, they can readily be moved without the use of an engine. (Every try to row a Livingston into a slight chop? Very wet and extremely slow.) Anyway, I'd readily buy another if it fit my needs. Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From zeekstah@ktc.com Fri Jun 1 17:05:14 2001 From: zeekstah@ktc.com (Zeke Anderson) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:05:14 -0500 Subject: TWL: Fw: Lectra/san Message-ID: <002e01c0eade$a76928e0$0cc7a3d1@uwqbc> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zeke Anderson" To: "TWL" Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:36 AM Subject: Lectra/san > Texas and the EPA list 24 freshwater lakes as its No Discharge Zones for > treated marine sewage. Does this mean I can discharge my Lectra/san Type 1 > MSD into any body of saltwater, including bays and the ICW? It looks to me > like it does, but I would like to be very sure. > > Thanks, > > Zeke Anderson > PT 38 Texas Cookin' > Rockport TX > With some help from an expert I am going to answer my own question posed above. A call to the Coast Guard brought the response, "I know for a fact you can't discharge anything into the ICW." When I asked for substantiation he said call back in an hour. When I did he reported he didn't know what the rule is because it is a state, not federal jurisdiction. Then I contacted Peggie Hall in Atlanta, the world's foremost authority on the subject. Here, in part, is her answer: "Whoever you talked to at the CG is wrong...'cuz that's not true. The ICW is a navigable interstate waterway, subject to the federal regulations set forth 40 CFR 140.3...which clearly allow treated discharge on all navigable interstate waterways." So if you have a Type 1 MSD (marine sanitation device) you may flush it overboard anywhere it is not specifically designated a 'no discharge zone'. If you go from the MSD into a holding tank, forget it....it becomes sewage and cannot be dumped within 3, 6 or 12 miles off shore, depending. The ideal setup then is to have the MSD valved in front of a holding tank so you can adapt to either zone. Armed with this knowledge, I went to the boat this week fully prepared to add my contribution to that of 10 million birds, more fish, many porpoise and some alligators, beavers, nutria et al. What I discovered was what I had amongst the boat's files was a receipt for a Lectra/San, an owner's manual for a Lectra/San, a stick-on instruction plate for a Lectra/San, but alas, below decks no Lectra/San anywhere. A previous owner must have changed his mind, or dropped it over the side. What I have is a Raritan electric head and holding tank. Rats. Zeke Anderson PT 38 Texas Cookin' Rockport TX From david@kennett.net Fri Jun 1 17:20:09 2001 From: david@kennett.net (David A. Stahl) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:20:09 -0400 Subject: TWL: Trip leg two & Engine Surveyor? In-Reply-To: <000001c0eadb$5babd860$17eb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010601172009.00a25e80@keywest.kennett.net> Listees, Skooch left Fort Lauderdale 5/26 on the Second leg home to the Chesapeake Bay, after delivery by ship from the Virgin Islands. But it was not to be. The Stb Transmission, much abused by water dripping from the raw water pump (previous owner), finally gave up and throw up its Dextron in to the catch basin under the engine. Pronounced dead by Rybovich/Spencer a new pair are on order and we will make another attempt the end of June. We missed some great weather off Fla with 5 knots of SE wind and a calm ocean. Skooch does 11 knots with the Gulf Stream and one engine, can't beat that but I want two motors. So the boat sits in Palm Beach next to a 62 Nordhavn waiting for mechanics and parts while the Admiral and I flew home. While I'm there . . . Does anyone know a good engine surveyor for Detroits Diesels in Palm Beach. I could not get this done before purchase, so now that the boat is in FLa getting new transmissions I thought I would get the motors looked over. "Skooch" Hatteras 42 LRC Palm Beach David Stahl ************************************************************** Kennett Internet Services, 112 S. Union Street, Kennett Square, PA 19348 610-444-9008 Visit our web site at http://www.kennett.net From Thataway@aol.com Fri Jun 1 17:45:46 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:45:46 EDT Subject: TWL: Lehman Diesel heritage Message-ID: <5f.15e66d79.2849670a@aol.com> The Ford block which has been marinized by many different companies is basically a tractor/industerial engine. Parts have been available world wide. For example in Europe almost any good size town would have a tractor parts dealer with parts for the Ford block. Bob Austin From fjflinn@accessbee.com Fri Jun 1 18:29:26 2001 From: fjflinn@accessbee.com (fjflinn) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:29:26 -0700 Subject: TWL: Lehman rough idle Message-ID: <005201c0eaea$5169a9e0$b9d74240@oemcomputer> Hi Do any of the ford lehman owners know if there is an adjustment that will smooth out the idle speed of my engine when it is in gear. It idles around 650 rpm , but when I put the boat in gear, the engine fluctuates between 500 and 700 rpm. As of yet, it has never stalled out. My other Lehman does not do this. Thanks for any advice. fred flinn DeFever 44 From MarkusRitter@hotmail.com Fri Jun 1 20:05:41 2001 From: MarkusRitter@hotmail.com (MarkusRitter@hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:05:41 -0500 Subject: TWL: Maptech Edition 3.0 versus Edition 2.0 incompatibility Message-ID: If your software can read Maptech Edition 2.0 and 2.2 it probably can not read Edition 3.0 and will require an up-grade of the software that may not be free of charge. From cculotta@iamerica.net Fri Jun 1 23:11:50 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:11:50 -0500 Subject: TWL: WEB Page CCRIDER Message-ID: <3B185976.71A9088A@iamerica.net> Hi guys, The web page is up and working. The Wife and I have put a few more articles and links on it. Included is the list of OVERNIGHT STOPS ON THE LOUISIANA GICW, list of MILE MARKERS WEST OF THE HARVEY LOCK , that's New Orleans, several "how to " arts, links to the CHB owners site with lots of pictures of lots of boats and other goodies. There is a link to a site with the names and address of most all TAIWAN boat builders. The site address is cculotta.homestead.com CCC and Pat -- Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From slowboat@mindspring.com Fri Jun 1 23:41:32 2001 From: slowboat@mindspring.com (Andy Clark) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 20:41:32 -0700 Subject: TWL: Fw: TWL Message-ID: <001901c0eb15$ec2bade0$b4c8173f@tinyus> > A pint is a pound the world around, roughly. > > JerryO > ________ > > Not so, JerryO. One of the "memory helpers" I learned as a kid growing up in England was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter". Imperial pint, of course Andy Clark ANTARES CHB 34 Homeport, Everett Washington From rbryett@mail.com Sat Jun 2 00:24:41 2001 From: rbryett@mail.com (Robert Bryett) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:24:41 +1000 Subject: TWL: Go metric young man. In-Reply-To: <001901c0eb15$ec2bade0$b4c8173f@tinyus> Message-ID: >>>>Not so, JerryO. One of the "memory helpers" I learned as a kid growing up in England was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter". Imperial pint, of course<<<< Of course down here it's simple. One litre of water weighs one kilogram and occupies one cubic decimetre... Well, near enough anyway. Mind you, we're a bit SI-crazy. Why does the Bureau Of Meteorology have to quote atmospheric pressures in hectopascals instead of the more familiar millibars? The values are basically the same, and the Bar is a metric unit - It's just not SI. Regards, Robert Bryett (72Kg, 1.76m), Sydney, Australia. mailto:rbryett@mail.com From slowboat@mindspring.com Sat Jun 2 00:28:21 2001 From: slowboat@mindspring.com (Andy Clark) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:28:21 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Lehman Diesel Heritage Message-ID: <002101c0eb1c$76771060$b4c8173f@tinyus> Murray Birch wrote........ I was under the impression that the base engine we use in our trawlers was not really a vehicle engine per se but a Ford industrial engine used in tractors, cranes, generators, pumps, etc. It was an extremely popular engine and I gather they sold lots of them. snip....... ----------- The base Ford engine for the Lehman 120 is the Dorset Diesel, and is, as Murray says, an engine successfully used as a fixed power plant. It turned out that they did not like the constantly-varying loads imposed by over-the-road applications but they perform well in a relatively fixed-load environment. Andy Clark ANTARES CHB 34 Homeport, Everett Washington From ctlow@boatdocking.com Sat Jun 2 16:36:49 2001 From: ctlow@boatdocking.com (Charles T. Low) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 16:36:49 -0400 Subject: TWL: M/Y vs' M/V vs' Motoryacht In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010602163645.00a1ee10@boatdocking.com> Elbert Maloney, long the editor of Chapman Piloting, advocates fitting the term "recreational" into describing our boats. His rationale includes the concept that, in the overall promotion of our activity with people in general and with regulatory agencies specifically, the word "pleasure" connotes associations such as excess or frivolity, something to be constrained (or taxed!). "Recreational," however, carries with it more the concepts of healthful, relaxing, restorative, strengthening, convivial - all good things, to be encouraged and advocated. I don't know if it makes a big difference, but seeing as Maloney looms largely as a modern boating statesman (and as he's been so good to me personally), I do, when necessary, try to remember to use the word "recreational" rather than "pleasure." FWIW, Charles ==== Charles T. Low, author of Boat Docking ======== From bocarun@hotmail.com Sat Jun 2 16:45:05 2001 From: bocarun@hotmail.com (Bo Run) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 20:45:05 -0000 Subject: TWL: Fuel Economy T165 Lemans Message-ID: We're seriously considering the purchase of a sundeck trawler with T165 hp Lemans and were wondering if anyone has fuel consumption info. With reasonalble economy in mind, what speed would you typically cruise at and what would be your gph burn rate? Thanks Bob Soon to be Trawlering _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From oilpans@thepoint.net Sat Jun 2 17:15:45 2001 From: oilpans@thepoint.net (Dick Schroder) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:15:45 -0400 Subject: TWL: M/Y vs' M/V vs' Motoryacht In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010602163645.00a1ee10@boatdocking.com> Message-ID: <001901c0eba9$30e52d60$cf63ab3f@dickpc> Charles, When it came to deciding how to describe my vessel on the inland river system, I merely went with what the commercial tow boat pilots and the lockmasters on the Ohio, Tennessee , Mississippi and Tenn-Tom waterway came up with. It was predomantly "pleasure craft" or "pleasure boat". I've gone with the "craft". It matches their terminolgy and after all the purpose is for them to understand. Cheers, Dick Dick Schroder M/V Pan Handler Docked on the Ohio 800-421-1901 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles T. Low" To: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: Re: TWL: M/Y vs' M/V vs' Motoryacht > Elbert Maloney, long the editor of Chapman Piloting, advocates fitting the > term "recreational" into describing our boats. > > > FWIW, Charles > > > ==== > > Charles T. Low, author of Boat Docking > > > > ======== > From cculotta@iamerica.net Sat Jun 2 18:50:26 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 17:50:26 -0500 Subject: TWL: Line Over Piling Device Message-ID: <3B196DB2.445959E6@iamerica.net> There are at least 3 or 4 commercial and several more homegrown devices to accomplish getting a line over an errant piling. (We know that none of us or our deck hands ever miss one that is standing still.) Picture this: A standard telescoping boat hook. Extend only the outer length. This should be about 2.5 ft. long. That is between the end and the first extension point. Get two ss hose clamps that are long enough to be tightened on the pole but , and this is the important part, leave about 3 inches of the clamp free. One is placed right at the end of the pole just short of the end fitting, and the other just before the extension joint. This provides two "hooks" onto which your dock line eye is placed. The two clamps will be about 2.5 ft. apart as stated. I then used yellow electrical tape on the "hook" part of the clamp to give it a smooth finish. This pole is stored on the cabin side. We also have regular boat hooks over each pilot house door and one in the cockpit. I did mention that the eyes in your dock lines should be FOUR feet long didn't I ? It makes corralling that bucking piling much , much easier. Learned this secret fr. an old commercial boat captain. Made one of these for THE WIFE and she really likes it CCC -- Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sat Jun 2 18:49:27 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 18:49:27 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fuel Economy T165 Lemans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010602184927.007bcab0@earthlink.net> At 08:45 PM 6/2/01 -0000, you wrote: >We're seriously considering the purchase of a sundeck trawler with T165 hp >Lemans and were wondering if anyone has fuel consumption info. With >reasonalble economy in mind, what speed would you typically cruise at and >what would be your gph burn rate? > >Thanks >Bob =============================================================== Bob I think you can find the info at one of my sites-------- http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain/pix.html Your engine is probably 150 BHP. Check it out. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sat Jun 2 18:57:26 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 18:57:26 -0400 Subject: TWL: Perkins owners Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010602185726.007bf170@earthlink.net> I don't know if this would be of interest to you, I have accumulated a cross index into other makes parts and pieces that saved me a lot of money when I owned those beauties. If there is a big response I will post it on one of my sites, if not we can do it by personal E/Mail. I am doing the same now for my Cummins. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From glennwaus@netspace.net.au Sat Jun 2 20:57:54 2001 From: glennwaus@netspace.net.au (Glenn Williams) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:57:54 +1000 Subject: TWL: Apology Message-ID: <002401c0ebc8$508d54c0$36ec0fd2@glennhome> Sorry about some auto-mail last week informing many listees of my trip out of town. It was a "rule" that I applied to my email package so that those that mailed me would not be offended by a lack of reply. I failed to consider the List, and for that I humbly apologise. I was in Sanctuary Cove in south east Queensland, Australia, (around fifteen hundred miles north of home) for what is now the best boat show in Australia. Much warmer up there, great show, many terrific toys!! Once again, my apologies. Cheers Glenn Williams Universal 36 "Stirling" Port Phillip Australia From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sat Jun 2 21:13:53 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:13:53 -0400 Subject: TWL: 12 Volt stuff Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010602211353.007bfd20@earthlink.net> Found a site that purports to be the Largest Database of 12 volt Manufacturers. http://www.12volts.co.uk Have fun.................. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From cfredblair@sympatico.ca Sat Jun 2 21:22:43 2001 From: cfredblair@sympatico.ca (Fred Blair) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 21:22:43 -0400 Subject: TWL: An Early-Season Trip in Georgian Bay Message-ID: <02c401c0ebcb$b0701dc0$61f0fea9@651ey> Blank We've just completed a six-day transit from Port Severn at the southeastern corner of Georgian Bay to the Canadian Yacht Charters base at Gore Bay on Manitoulin Island, at the heart of the renowned North Channel. This was a delivery trip; Panacea II, our 35' Oceana (basically a CHB) sundeck trawler, is going into charter service for the balance of the season while we're otherwise engaged in the Logan 33 project. It was a little different and interesting to head north this soon in the season. Weather was variable, with morning temperatures in the single digits (Celsius) and water the same. No morning swims. Very little other traffic, even in areas like Killarney, which is a hive of Ontario- and Michigan-based activity later in the year. We were first boat of the year in Britt (having been almost last out last year) and again in the pretty little town of Manitowaning. At Killarney, the docks aren't in yet at Killarney Mountain Lodge, so we went further west along the channel to the Sportsman's Inn, where the docks are in place but the power isn't on. A couple of generators are running out back, and Inn management has the priorities right: the fridge and the neon beer signs are on, so the Badgeley Island silica miners can get the necessary sustenance, even if they have to carry candles around the rest of the building. A word on depth: it's true, the water is down. Not much -- maybe 4 to 6 inches below last year, but that's 4 to 6 below chart datum, and the Small Craft Route has limiting depths in places of no more than 6 feet at datum. That means if you draw 4 feet, as we do with full fuel and water, and there's any swell running, things could get a bit sporty. The Canadian Coast Guard is busy establishing buoyage for alternate routes, mostly in the exposed area outside the Thirty Thousand (35,000 this year) Islands, but that's going to make it more important than ever to watch carefully for weather windows. We were lucky with travelling weather, only losing half a day to a severe thunderstorm warning. We holed up in the Bustard Islands, tied to the rock wall. One strike was close enough that we got two very distinct loud CLICKS before the simultaneous blinding FLASH/WHAM!! I was relieved that the electronics weren't affected. For the rest of the trip, the only uncomfortable bit was westward out of Little Current and through the Clapperton Channel, when we had about four hours of 25-knot-driven 6-footers right on the nose. At 1600 RPM, we had to be doing at least 8 knots; unfortunately, most of it was purely vertical, and it was a long haul across to Gore Bay. That trusty old Lehman cleared her throat a couple of times near the final turn into the bay, and I for one was perfectly happy to get in and secured. Definitely time to look at the filters, even though they were changed out at the end of last year. All in all, a wonderful trip, over too soon. The wet, gray, rugged rock fields at the outlet of Twelve Mile Bay, the cataracts off the cliffs into Collins Inlet, the early spring colours, the returning waterfowl, grilled rainbows that were swimming a couple of hours ago ... it doesn't get any better. Fred Blair Panacea II 35' Oceana Sundeck Gore Bay, Ontario From marianna26_2000@yahoo.com Sat Jun 2 22:24:01 2001 From: marianna26_2000@yahoo.com (havell robert) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 19:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20010603022401.25344.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> looking for used trawler whats out there ===== From samakijoe@mediaone.net Sat Jun 2 23:04:36 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 23:04:36 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fuel Economy T165 Lemans / the cost of toys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010602230436.007e0380@pop.pompano.net> At 08:45 PM 06/02/2001 -0000, Bo Run wrote: >We're seriously considering the purchase of a sundeck trawler with T165 hp >Lemans and were wondering if anyone has fuel consumption info. With >reasonalble economy in mind, what speed would you typically cruise at and >what would be your gph burn rate? > >Thanks >Bob >Soon to be Trawlering > I get as big a kick from buying fuel for a couple pennies less then the other guy but: I don't know what the rest of you think but I find that the cost of fuel is a very small part of owning a boat. You can buy 1000 gals of fuel for what is costs for a bottom paint job. Add to that a couple of cutless bearings and a rebuild on the props and you are up to two to three years worth of fuel. Most of the owners in the cold country put their boat up on blocks for 4-6 months a year (they spend money but aren't able to buy fuel) and this is for only the usual maintiance costs. I not talking of replacing a generator, fridge, or battery bank. I've gotten to the point where I don't keep records showing how much "it" costs. Bob, just go for it, but buy the boat that fits your life style now, not for what it will be in the future. Forget about the price of fuel. It's not the cost of fuel you should be worried about..jd BTW: call a local service center and ask what it costs to replace those two turbos... Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Sat Jun 2 23:45:06 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 23:45:06 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fuel Economy T165 Lemans / the cost of toys In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010602230436.007e0380@pop.pompano.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010602231821.00a2dd30@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> At 11:04 PM 6/2/01 -0400, Joe DellaFera wrote: >I don't know what the rest of you think but I find that the cost of fuel >is a very small part of owning a boat. Sad, but true. Just what I'm spending for new grease fittings to install on the seacocks would be enough to fuel the boat for a day or two. And grease fittings are trivially cheap as boat parts go. Now let's not even think about that new heat exchanger or .... In their book "Honey, Let's Get a Boat...." the Stobs claim to have taken their 40' twin engine trawler all the way around the great loop for a year (6400 miles) on 2900 gallons of fuel. Approximately only 14% of their direct boat expenses for the year were fuel -- and they were traveling much more than the typical boater does. Fuel in a trawler is probably only a few percent of the total boat costs for people who are only able to use the boat on the weekends, etc. (Of course when you pull up to the pump and buy 500-1000 gallons, fuel certainly looks expensive at that moment.) Bill From jgaquin@ici.net Sun Jun 3 00:29:49 2001 From: jgaquin@ici.net (John Gaquin) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 00:29:49 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Custom Made Carpet... In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03F92@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: <005201c0ebe5$d59f5100$5711b4cf@computer> ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Ryker > > So, should I be looking at using a "marinized" carpet. What I mean is a > carpet made for the marine environment or is any indoor/outdoor carpet > acceptable? I was under the impression that I should try to use a marine > grade carpet. > When I need something like this, I usually go to a local chain called Building 19. They carry surplus and insurance salvage. Two years ago, looking for carpet for our cockpit deck area, I bought a piece of standard commercial grade berber, 6 X 9, fully edgebound, for $27. It usually stays out in the rain. When salty or fishy, I just hose it on the dock. I'm thinking of replacing it this year, but undecided. Ironically, it's the backer weave that's starting to deteriorate, not the carpet fabric. Still, $13.50 per season ain't half bad, and maybe I'll still stretch this season out of it -- I'm just that cheap!!!!! Regards, John Gaquin m/v Brefnie Queen, 32' Luhrs From hbrink@earthlink.net Sun Jun 3 00:49:59 2001 From: hbrink@earthlink.net (Harold R. Brink, PE) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 00:49:59 -0400 Subject: TWL: "recreational" rather than "pleasure." In-Reply-To: <20010603040011.B471D26243@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: Why not "personal" rather than "commercial?" From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Sun Jun 3 01:42:10 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 22:42:10 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: An Early-Season Trip in Georgian Bay Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB67059AA@BCMAIL1> Fred You managed to make me homesick! My buddy and I usually made a fast run out to the westerlies this time of year. I could almost smell the cold air and fresh water and feel the hard granite under my bare feet as you described those placed I used to boat in. I've also spent a few fog bound days at Tobermory this time of year. thanks for the memories! Cheers Arild currently on the wet coast in the (sometime) rain. -----Original Message----- From: Fred Blair [mailto:cfredblair@sympatico.ca] Subject: TWL: An Early-Season Trip in Georgian Bay We've just completed a six-day transit from Port Severn at the southeastern corner of Georgian Bay to the Canadian Yacht Charters base at Gore Bay on Manitoulin Island, at the heart of the renowned North Channel. << snip>> Fred Blair Panacea II 35' Oceana Sundeck Gore Bay, Ontario --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From JKT99@prodigy.net Sun Jun 3 07:42:58 2001 From: JKT99@prodigy.net (John E Garrison) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 07:42:58 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: An Early-Season Trip in Georgian Bay In-Reply-To: <02c401c0ebcb$b0701dc0$61f0fea9@651ey> Message-ID: <001c01c0ec22$57a44340$5a0effd1@vaio> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Blair" > Blank We've just completed a six-day transit from Port Severn at the > southeastern corner of Georgian Bay to the Canadian Yacht Charters base at > Gore Bay on Manitoulin Island, at the heart of the renowned North Channel. > This was a delivery trip; Panacea II, our 35' Oceana (basically a CHB) > sundeck trawler, is going into charter service for the balance of the season > while we're otherwise engaged in the Logan 33 project. > > All in all, a wonderful trip, over too soon. The wet, gray, rugged rock > fields at the outlet of Twelve Mile Bay, the cataracts off the cliffs into > Collins Inlet, the early spring colours, the returning waterfowl, grilled > rainbows that were swimming a couple of hours ago ... it doesn't get any > better. > > Fred Blair > Panacea II > 35' Oceana Sundeck > Gore Bay, Ontario Hi Fred, Sounds like a great trip. Good luck this summer with the Logan project. Are you going to be in Port Severn or Toronto most of the time? Need to know in case I'm on the way up to the cottage on Lake Wahwahskesh. Regards, John Garrison "Just Keel-ing Time" Lake Norman, NC From zeekstah@ktc.com Sun Jun 3 09:26:32 2001 From: zeekstah@ktc.com (Zeke Anderson) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 08:26:32 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re: "recreational" rather than "pleasure." In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c0ec30$cf0e9a80$087c913f@uwqbc> Good point. After doing the bright work, cleaning the fiberglass, tending to the engine room, the bilge, the non-functioning head, I often wonder who dubbed them "pleasure boats"? It does get personal. Zeke Anderson PT38 Texas Cookin' Rockport TX ----- > Why not "personal" rather than "commercial?" > > From dediehl@juno.com Sat Jun 2 15:28:26 2001 From: dediehl@juno.com (Dennis A. Diehl) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:28:26 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Custom Made Carpet... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010603.102614.-248783.0.dediehl@juno.com> I used the glue you fefer to from Home Depot on my carpet edges. Worked like a charm, 10 months and still looks good. Dennis & Elaine Diehl M/V Wanderer 34 Mainship I Chesapeake VA From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sun Jun 3 10:37:32 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 10:37:32 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: In-Reply-To: <20010603022401.25344.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010603103732.007c4450@earthlink.net> At 07:24 PM 6/2/01 -0700, you wrote: >looking for used trawler whats out there ================================================================ How about a 42' Defever 86' asking 189K . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sun Jun 3 10:41:24 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 10:41:24 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fuel Economy T165 Lemans / the cost of toys In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010602230436.007e0380@pop.pompano.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010603104124.007c5ac0@earthlink.net> Forget about the price of fuel. It's not the cost of >fuel you should be worried about..jd > >BTW: call a local service center and ask what it costs to replace those two >turbos... > > >Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray >========================================================= I'm worried Joe---where can I find cheap fuel........... . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From fburrows@mail.com Sun Jun 3 11:23:59 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 11:23:59 -0400 Subject: TWL: Morse Type Control Cables Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010603111430.009fbec0@pop.site1.csi.com> I am in the process of changing out my throttle cables because one has become very stiff. My question is about the transmissions cables. They work very easily and appear to be in good shape. However they are 20 years old and difficult to replace even though I only have a single station. I wonder if any members of the list have had a cable fail without any warning? I assume most failures are when the cables get stiff and eventually break or parts of the linkage get loose. If these cables can fail without any warning then maybe I should replace them but if not I might leave well enough alone. thanks Frank Burrows 1979 43' Viking MY Piney Narrows Marina Chesapeake Bay From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Sun Jun 3 13:13:24 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:13:24 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Morse Type Control Cables Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB64B3EA6@BCMAIL1> Arild writes: Most of the sudden failures I have seen are related to the ends coming adrift or breaking from severe stress, usually from an outside source. Corrosion, when it happens usually build up and signals its presence by increasing stiffness over time. If you can remove the core from the sheath you can inspect it for corrosion and as you insert it back into the casing, add some dry lubricant. I have used graphite powder in the past. At one marina, all of us used old Morse cables for fish tapes. We used old cables where the ends broke off. We would strip out the stainless steel core. and used is since it was perfect for fishing wires and cables into and around wire ducts in the engine rooms and leading up to the fly bridge. An electrician's fish tape is flat and will only curve in one direction. It resists bending in the other axis. -----Original Message----- From: Frank Burrows [mailto:fburrows@mail.com] Subject: TWL: Morse Type Control Cables I am in the process of changing out my throttle cables . . . <<< snip>>> If these cables can fail without any warning then maybe I should replace them but if not I might leave well enough alone. thanks Frank Burrows --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From Rollsdoc@aol.com Sun Jun 3 13:48:57 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:48:57 EDT Subject: TWL: Morse Type Control Cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <29.15c1f4db.284bd289@aol.com> In a message dated 6/3/01 11:27:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fburrows@mail.com writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> If you haven't removed the old cables you might try lubricating them. I have removed the cables from the controls, slipped a 3/8 hose over the end, filled the hose with WD 40, applied air pressure to the hose until thw WD came out at the other end. Working the cable from the engine end helped. Did 8 cables in 1/2 a day. Made a big difference. Thought I needed to change 2 cables before this process. All are fine now. What a difference. I have never had a cable break. The ends seem to be a weak point. They can be replaced Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH From LRZeitlin@aol.com Sun Jun 3 15:48:59 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:48:59 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Fuel costs as a percentage of operating costs Message-ID: <54.156fd45f.284beeab@aol.com> << >I don't know what the rest of you think but I find that the cost of fuel >is a very small part of owning a boat. >> Fuel costs are about 11% of my operating costs, 7.5% if if figure in lost interest on purchase price of my boat. Larry Zeitlin From LRZeitlin@aol.com Sun Jun 3 15:51:29 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:51:29 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #336 Message-ID: <3c.c8f8adf.284bef41@aol.com> In a message dated 6/3/01 12:01:49 AM, Capt. Al writes: << I don't know if this would be of interest to you, I have accumulated a cross index into other makes parts and pieces that saved me a lot of money when I owned those beauties. >> Post it, post it, post it!!!! Inquiring minds want to know. Larry Zeitin From richard@richardmorrison.com Sun Jun 3 14:09:03 2001 From: richard@richardmorrison.com (Richard Morrison) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 13:09:03 -0500 Subject: TWL: Tips for replacing oil coolers? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010603125648.00b19350@shell14.ba.best.com> I've just replaced the old corroded heat exchangers on my 120 twin Lehmans. That went pretty well. However, I'm getting ready to replace the 20 year old oil coolers (both transmission and engine). Never having done this before, I'm hoping somebody will have some tips. Primarily, I'm wondering if I ought to drain the oil first or if there is some clever way to get around having oil geysers when I disconnect the hoses. (Are temporary screw-on hose caps feasible?) TIA-- Richard ---------------------------------------- Richard Morrison, AIA, ASID Architect-Interior Designer 1150 University Drive, Suite 103 Menlo Park, CA 94025 (650) 321-3729 From Thataway@aol.com Sun Jun 3 17:09:25 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:09:25 EDT Subject: TWL: Oil coolers replacement. Message-ID: If the hoses are 20 years old, you probably should consider replacing them also. There will be a little oil in the lines and cooler, but by undoing one end first, and raising that end, allowing the oil to drain back into the engine, this will be minimal. The oil will not be under any pressure. No reason to drain the engine pan first. I use ziplock and garbage bags around the ends and entire cooler to contain materials. Put the oil adsorb pads down before your start and keep things clean as you go. Bob Austin From e16@telus.net Sun Jun 3 17:20:56 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 14:20:56 -0700 Subject: TWL: Morse Type Control Cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Frank I just got back from a trip to Asia and am facing a Morse transmission cable replacement this coming week. (BTW, I had an opportunity to meet Rob Harrington-Johnson in Hong Kong, a fellow TWL member. TWL sure makes the world a smaller place.) Anyway, back to your question. A few weeks ago the starboard throttle control on my upper helm suddenly went out of commission while under way, and after getting back home via the lower helm, I discovered that the threaded slug that locks the handle to the cable lever had backed out. Easy fix, but I thought I'd better check the other 3 handles, all of which proved okay. However, while I was rooting around under the lower helm, I noticed a different problem with the cable on the port transmission. The outer "tube" is, in fact just a bunch of heavy wires twisted in a spiral and covered by PVC or some other plastic. For whatever reason, several of those outer wires fractured at the same point. The inner cable still works, but it's only a matter of time, so I purchased the replacement and now have to install it. Worth checking, especially if you have a single engine. Cheers, Garrett From glennwaus@netspace.net.au Sun Jun 3 17:48:06 2001 From: glennwaus@netspace.net.au (Glenn Williams) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:48:06 +1000 Subject: TWL: Morse Type Control Cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007001c0ec77$0f7eb780$d4fa0fd2@glennhome> Garrett. I had the same broken external sheath/wires on "Stirling's" upper gear shift Morse cable. Definitely too sharp a bend. Make sure when you replace that you allow an extra foot or two to smooth out the bend, otherwise you'll have the same problem. Cheers Glenn. Port Phillip Australia From THOY@TELE-CONNECT.COM Sun Jun 3 19:12:07 2001 From: THOY@TELE-CONNECT.COM (Terry Hoy) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 19:12:07 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cabin heater fuel pump Message-ID: <71D608B618E4D111AE9800C0F028FBDB078C82@NTSERVER> I have a drip pot diesel cabin heater that uses a low pressure (> 3 psi) pump. It is a Motomaster #23-6560-6 (2-838) I believe Motomaster is a brand name for Canadian Tire products. The pump is about 10 years old. Can anyone help me with this? I need a rebuild kit. Thanks, Terry Hoy Meridian Wittholz 40 Kalamazoo, MI From jschroeder1@uswest.net Sun Jun 3 20:18:16 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:18:16 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Fuel costs as a percentage of operating costs In-Reply-To: <54.156fd45f.284beeab@aol.com> Message-ID: This is a tricky one. I do about 400 hours a year on my boat. I use about 3 pints or 3/8s of a gallon an hour. Fuel at my dock is up to $1.79/gal for diesel, but up till last week I paid no more than $1.69. If my math is correct (.375X400X1.69) my annual fuel expenditures are roughly $260 bucks. Add 4 quarts of oil, I'm spending about $280 bucks a year for fuel. That included several trips to the San Juans. My boat cost me $32,000.00. Not bad thinks I. Jerry Schroeder M/Y Surprise 21' R21 Ballard, WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of > LRZeitlin@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 12:49 PM > To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com > Subject: TWL: Re: Fuel costs as a percentage of operating costs > > > > > > << >I don't know what the rest of you think but I find that the > cost of fuel > >is a very small part of owning a boat. >> > > Fuel costs are about 11% of my operating costs, 7.5% if if figure in lost > interest on purchase price of my boat. > > Larry Zeitlin > From PRyker@Affinity.com Sun Jun 3 20:52:17 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:52:17 -0700 Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question... Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03F9D@exchange.affinityla.com> My 1980 44' Trojan has two 60 gallon water tanks. The tanks have water lines running to a crossover fitting with separate shutoff valves for each tank that allow to select what tank you want water from or both if you leave both valves open. They then go into a single line via the fitting and what I assume is a expansion tank. I need to replace all the old valves and fittings since they are old and the one for the starboard tank is broken and will no longer open. I figured this out after filling both tanks with water and after using the water for the day I noticed the boat had a list to one side. It had used all of the water from the port tank and none from the starboard since that valve is broken. My question: What type valve should I use to replace the old ones and from what material? Brass? Right now I am not sure what the valves are made from but it does not appear to be brass. They are then fitted on either end to the white high pressure hoses. The valves that are on there now appear to be the same as you would find on the faucet to your garden hose on your house. Also, We were cleaning the heads today and wondered how safe it is to use bleach to clean them. This would put bleach into the hard plastic holding tank and may create fumes? Is this wise or is it better to buy special cleaners for this purpose? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks From bgel@telus.net Sun Jun 3 21:01:50 2001 From: bgel@telus.net (Bruce Gelhorn) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 18:01:50 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cabin heater fuel pump In-Reply-To: <71D608B618E4D111AE9800C0F028FBDB078C82@NTSERVER> Message-ID: <3B1ADDFE.AE2210B1@telus.net> Terry Hoy wrote: > > I have a drip pot diesel cabin heater that uses a low pressure (> 3 psi) > pump. It is a Motomaster #23-6560-6 (2-838) I believe Motomaster is a > brand name for Canadian Tire products. The pump is about 10 years old. > Hi Terry, Canadian Tire have a website at www.canadiantire.ca. They also have a toll free number (which may or may not work in the U.S.) which is 1-866-746-7287. Good luck in your search. Cheers, Bruce -- Bruce Gelhorn M/V "Single Malt" (Mainship 34) Vancouver, BC From PRyker@Affinity.com Sun Jun 3 21:04:48 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 18:04:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: Searching archives... Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03F9E@exchange.affinityla.com> I seem to remember someone talking about a way to search archives?? Could someone please pass that information to me? Thanks From e16@telus.net Sun Jun 3 21:53:34 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 18:53:34 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cabin heater fuel pump In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If no one else - or nearer - has offered, I'd be glad to help. I'm in British Columbia. I just phoned to check on the kit, but the stores are already closed early today (Sunday), but I'd be glad to call tomorrow. Let me know. Cheers, Garrett From e16@telus.net Sun Jun 3 22:11:48 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 19:11:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: Searching archives... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Phil It was I, and I'm happy to repeat the technique. Go to http://www.google.com/options/toolbar.html and at the bottom of the screen click on "I want the Google Toolbar". Once you've got it, it should appear on your internet browser. In the search box type whatever it is you're looking for followed by the phrase site:samurai.com, eg tanks site:samurai.com and you should get lots of hits. If too many, refine the search criteria by changing or adding more words. If too little, do the reverse, i.e. try something like water tanks site:samurai.com or fuel tanks site:samurai.com Your hits will not include anything from the current month, and will include any phrase that contain your search criteria. Unfortunately, because of the way TWL is set up, that will include subject lines referring to previous and next posts, so don't be surprised if, when you open these messages, they have nothing at all to do with what you're seeking. Once you see how it works, you'll quickly recognize the spurious hits, and can just skip over them. If you do not want to add the toolbar to your browser, www.google.com will let you search directly. Cheers, Garrett From fburrows@mail.com Sun Jun 3 22:48:18 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 22:48:18 -0400 Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question... In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03F9D@exchange.affinity la.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010603223849.02114020@pop.site1.csi.com> Phil: I have a similar setup on my 43' Viking. Viking did not but valves in the lines and I am not sure what purpose they serve since you would want to draw water together to keep the boat on an even keel. I think regular bronze shut off valves would be fine for this purpose. If the valves are in hose then a common plastic garden hose shut off valve would probably suffice. Normally the line would go to a pump and then to a accumulator tank. I have Sealand Vacuflush (use to be Mansfield) heads on my boat and bleach is death to the diaphragms and joker valves. I would contact the maker of your heads and get their advice. They let you use Muriatic acid but not bleach in a Vacuflush. Frank Burrows From rgano@mantech-pc.com Mon Jun 4 02:40:58 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:40:58 -0500 Subject: TWL:RE:Lehman oil cooler replacement Message-ID: <000c01c0ecc3$79e1e880$5c2469ce@richsat> I replace mine every few years. American Diesel recommends no longer than 5 years. They are cheap compared to the potential catastrophe. I wouldn't over-engineer the project because it's not all that messy. You certainly won't get geysers. I usually disconnect the seawater hoses and then get a couple of properly sized box wrenches to use together to disconnect the hoses, which I tie with loose ends upward while getting the new cooler in hand. I keep the connection point on the cooler facing upward while doing this. Then reverse the process. If you can keep from kicking over the old cooler laying at your feet, you'll have a relatively clean operation with nothing more than an ordinary sized oil rag necessary for a clean up tool. American Diesel also has a large diameter hose replacement they recommend - if your hoses are as old as I think they are, get them renewed while you're at it. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB-42-295) Southport, FL From rgano@mantech-pc.com Mon Jun 4 02:55:19 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:55:19 -0500 Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c0ecc3$7afdb8c0$5c2469ce@richsat> The valves you have on your fresh water tanks MAY not actually be internally like what you have on your garden hose outlets, but I certainly would not replace them with anything of that nature. I would suggest a ball valve. Brass housing with stainless ball and plastic (teflon?) insert is fine in this application (but not in systems where seawater flows through), and a great selection is available at places like Home Depot. There are also valves available in non-metallic substances (I might use them in a seawater system if I could not find real good bronze), but I like the strength of brass.for the fresh water system. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB-42-295) Southport, FL From mikey@efni.com Mon Jun 4 06:33:01 2001 From: mikey@efni.com (Mike & Kym Eedy) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 06:33:01 EDT Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question... In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03F9D@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: Phil, > Also, We were cleaning the heads today and wondered how safe it is to use > bleach to clean them. This would put bleach into the hard plastic holding > tank and may create fumes? Is this wise or is it better to buy special > cleaners for this purpose? If you're a believer in ventilation and aerobic activity keeping your holding tank from smelling, don't do it. The bleach will kill the aerobic bacteria. Mike Eedy M/V Excalibur North Bay ON Mikey@efni.com From jsikora@telocity.com Mon Jun 4 07:51:23 2001 From: jsikora@telocity.com (John Sikora) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:51:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: Blue smoke Message-ID: <000301c0ecec$ae31a520$40c25c8b@wiznet.com> What's the general opinion on blue smoke at start - up. I have twin CAT3208's (non-turbo). They pore out large clouds of blue smoke when I start the engines cold. After they reach the operating temperature there is just a hint of blue and that's only noticeable if the engine is idling at the dock. Is this normal? Is there a normal? From paul@whooppee.com Mon Jun 4 07:58:38 2001 From: paul@whooppee.com (Paul Goyette) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 04:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: Blue smoke In-Reply-To: <000301c0ecec$ae31a520$40c25c8b@wiznet.com> Message-ID: I can't say if yours are normal or not. But my 3208's never gave me any blue smoke that I could notice. On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, John Sikora wrote: > What's the general opinion on blue smoke at start - up. I have twin > CAT3208's (non-turbo). They pore out large clouds of blue smoke when I start > the engines cold. After they reach the operating temperature there is just a > hint of blue and that's only noticeable if the engine is idling at the dock. > Is this normal? Is there a normal? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Paul Goyette | PGP DSS Key fingerprint: | E-mail addresses: | | Network Engineer | BCD7 5301 9513 58A6 0DBC | paul@whooppee.com | | & World Cruiser | 91EB ADB1 A280 3B79 9221 | pgoyette@juniper.net | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhj@pacific.net.hk Mon Jun 4 08:02:41 2001 From: rhj@pacific.net.hk (Rob Harrington-Johnson) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:02:41 +0800 Subject: TWL: Re: Morse Type Control Cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004a01c0ecee$43446020$03000004@johnson> >The inner cable still works, but it's only a matter of time, so I purchased the replacement and now have to install it.< Hi Garret it was good to meet you. I watched the mech. change a cable on my boat. Tape the old one's end to the new ones end and then pull the old one out, which if it works pulls the new one through. Voila easy job........... Cheers Rob Harrington Johnson Hong Kong From brooksd2@hotmail.com Mon Jun 4 08:04:00 2001 From: brooksd2@hotmail.com (David Brooks) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 08:04:00 -0400 Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question... Message-ID: White plastic ball valve with red handle from Home Depot or any hardware store, advantage is complete shutoff with 1/4 turn. Get the variety that has threads rather than slip joints. Bleach will destroy the rubber found in joker valve besides any other gasket in the system. Lectra-san recommends muriatic acid to clean the electrode plates. Dave Silver Belle _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Thataway@aol.com Mon Jun 4 10:45:21 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:45:21 EDT Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question Message-ID: Chlorine/chlorox is not a good idea in any part of the head system. Generally white vinager (acetic acid) is used to desolve sediments and helps keep the odors down. This will not hurt the rubber and seals. As to Aerobic/anerobic bacterial action in holding tanks: Holding tanks are just that--holding tanks, not sewer processing plants or septic tanks. They should be pumped out on a regular basis--if used on a weekend, when you get to the pumpout station in enclosed waters, or if traveling over an area that is legal to dump overboard, then in that area. After I pump mine, I like wrinse it with non contaminated water and pump again to prevent build up. In no way is a holding tank a substitute for proper sewage treatment; pathogenic bacteria and viriuses will not be killed by any form of aeorbic or anerobic digestion. The problem with Chlorox in a plastic holding tank, is that the seals and diaphrams etc on the pumps may be dammaged. Believe me, human faecal waste has plenty of bacteria and with the next usage any bacteria that were present in the past would be replaced with new ones! Bob Austin From Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com Mon Jun 4 12:29:21 2001 From: Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com (Kapuscinski, Igor) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:29:21 -0700 Subject: TWL: re: Stray voltage/current between deck fittings and rubrail - Why ? Summary Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F331A1B0@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> This weekend I found the problem. It was a screw that penetrated black conductor of AC circuit leading to pilothouse receptacle. It was original manufacturing defect. I am suprised that none of 2 previous owner noticed it or did something about it. We were very lucky that nobody has been electrocuted. The only saving grace was that wood screw that run through the black conductor was part of the teak trim, therefore the AC current strength was limited because it had to travel through the teak before reaching aluminum rail. No wonder it was stronger when teak was wet. Big thanks to all members that responded to my query. The suggestion about checking each circuit one at the time allowed me to pinpoint problem circuit. The rest was just a pain of getting to right wires and replacing them. One lesson, I have learned from that incident is that if you are getting electrically zapped it is an AC and not DC current. My initial measurements with voltmeter using DC were not correct even though it shown DC voltage. After switching to AC measurement readout stabilized indicating AC volts. I was reading 9.2 AC volts between rail and the ground. Now, to next project of dealing with 50 Amp pull from side-to-side refrigerator. I think I will enlarge my house bank to 1000 Amp/hrs. Igor Kapuscinski M/V Pretty Lady Chris Craft 460 Canstellation From weldred@zoo.uvm.edu Mon Jun 4 12:33:30 2001 From: weldred@zoo.uvm.edu (Wesley Eldred) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:33:30 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fw: Lectra/san In-Reply-To: <002e01c0eade$a76928e0$0cc7a3d1@uwqbc> Message-ID: <3B1BB85A.979B72C@zoo.uvm.edu> Zeke: The following may be accurate but it is not complete without the exceptions. The EPA provides information on no-discharge zones and lists them by state at the following web address: http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html Lake Champlain may be on of the most restrictive inasmuch as mechanisms for overboard discharge be disabled. The following is from the NY State Canal System information: "Sewage may not be discharged into the waters of Lake Champlain and all vessels' MSD's must be rendered inoperable and any overboard pumpouts disconnected. Sewage may only be contained within a holding tank and must be pumped ashore at an appropriate handling facility." Wesley LNVT, "Little Bitt" So Burlington, VT weldred@zoo.uvm.edu Zeke Anderson wrote: > Then I contacted Peggie Hall in Atlanta, the world's foremost authority on > the subject. Here, in part, is her answer: > > "Whoever you talked to at the CG is wrong...'cuz that's not true. The ICW > is a navigable interstate waterway, subject to the federal regulations > set forth 40 CFR 140.3...which clearly allow treated discharge on all > navigable interstate waterways." > > So if you have a Type 1 MSD (marine sanitation device) you may flush it > overboard anywhere it is not specifically designated a 'no discharge zone'. > Zeke Anderson > PT 38 Texas Cookin' > Rockport TX From e16@telus.net Mon Jun 4 13:21:35 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:21:35 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cabin heater fuel pump In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, Terry Canadian Tire says the item is discontinued and parts or repair kits are no longer available. However, it is a simple fuel transfer pump, so I should think you ought to be able to buy something similar at any NAPA auto parts supplier in your area. Good luck, Garrett From e16@telus.net Mon Jun 4 13:34:31 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:34:31 -0700 Subject: TWL: Blue smoke In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John Sometimes it's not easy to distinguish smoke colours eg grey vs blue, but if it really is blue, it means oil is being burned, and that's not a good portent. Have you noticed an increase in engine oil consumption lately? If so, a compression check will tell you more. FYI: Blue smoke = oil being burned: ring wear? Grey to Black smoke = incomplete fuel combustion: valve timing or faulty injector? White smoke = water vapour: head gasket leak? Cheers, Garrett From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Mon Jun 4 14:58:54 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:58:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: purchasing a diesel- new or rebuilt? Message-ID: So I've been talking to the "expert" factory reps, and am now thoroughly confused. I kneel humbly at the feet of the Masters of Motor-dom, hoping for a glimmer of wisdom :) In trying to budget out my trawler building project, I'm looking into the engine/drive train. The designer (Charlie Wittholz) specs out a 150 hp engine for this installation. Seems a bit on the large side for a 48' full displacement hull, but then he probably knows more than I do. Are there any 150 hp naturally-aspirated diesels being made today? The major players don't seem to be doing it, but then, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. Turbos seem to me to be a layer of complexity that I'd rather not deal with. Or are they a good thing? Then there's the GPH consumption rate! I've been following the other thread, and know about the 11% figure, et. al. In planning out a new installation, I'm still *very* interested in what the burn rate will be, as I'm sure the owner of dual 420 hp Cats spends a bit more on fuel than the guy with a single 80 hp Lugger! So an economical engine is a high priority- that includes fuel consumption, parts costs, and ease of repair for a dunderhead like me. Any suggestions? (I hope that I don't start an engine 'holy war' here!) What about picking up a rebuilt set-up, the whole enchilada, with some sort of warrantee from the shop that did the work? Would this be a foolish move? Since I'll be doing the vast majority of the work on the boat, I want to minimize expensive-technician time, and to try and not buy parts on a onesie-twosie basis. A Cummings factory rep told me he could set me up for about $14K, and I've seen ads on MarineEngine.com for a 135 hp set-up for around $4500. Big difference! Is there a website for older marine diesels? Should I just call around to local boatyards? Sorry about my clulessness! Any assistance will be most appreciated! ___________________________ Doug Barnard trawler-crawler wannabe From Thataway@aol.com Mon Jun 4 15:59:45 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:59:45 EDT Subject: TWL: Stray voltage Message-ID: <6a.eee2791.284d42b1@aol.com> Igor, Most interesting story! John Wayne allegedly put hot 110 v to rails on Boston Whalers he kept in the water astern of WILD GOOSE, and the neutral into the water in Mazatalan in the late 60's--a few floating bodies later the thiefts of his Whalers stopped. If you have not already put golf carts in, the refer/inverter bank is the ideal place for them. Bob Austin From Awgertoo@aol.com Mon Jun 4 16:03:39 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:03:39 EDT Subject: TWL: purchasing a diesel- new or rebuilt? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/4/01 2:59:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dbarnard@virtualacreage.com writes: << he designer (Charlie Wittholz) specs out a 150 hp engine for this installation. Seems a bit on the large side for a 48' full displacement hull, but then he probably knows more than I do. Are there any 150 hp naturally-aspirated diesels being made today? The major players don't seem to be doing it, but then, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. Turbos seem to me to be a layer of complexity that I'd rather not deal with. Or are they a good thing? >> I have a full-displacement 48' vessel thaty weighs in the vicinity of 70,000 lbs. I installed a 3306-T Cat (190 HP continuous @1950 RPM's, 250 intermittent @2200). I may be a bit overpropped as I make my thoretical hull speed 8.95 knots at about 1800 rpms and not too muych more at increased throttle. My point is that if the boat is a heavy one you may need every bit of 150 HP and perhaps a bit more for "special" situations (like being aground, etc.). As to the turbo--I've never had a bit of problems with it in 22 years. Just feed the engine clean oil, air and fuel. My fuel consumption at 9 knots is about 6 gph, at 7-1/4 knots (1250 rpms more or less) it drops down to less than 3-1/2 gph. Best--Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From tonymarshall@hargray.com Mon Jun 4 16:08:08 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:08:08 -0400 Subject: TWL: FW: re: Stray voltage/current between deck fittings and rubrail - Why? Summary Message-ID: Igor: Your first post stated that you were not connected to AC. That is why I asked if you had an inverter aboard, since they can be started by a small load. I realized that it was AC, though I did not say so in so many words. _____________________________ Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head Island, SC | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com | [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Kapuscinski | Igor | Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 12:29 PM | To: TWL E-mail | Subject: TWL: re: Stray voltage/current between deck fittings and | rubrail - Why? Summary | | | | This weekend I found the problem. It was a screw that penetrated | black conductor of AC circuit leading to pilothouse receptacle. It | was original manufacturing defect. I am suprised that none of 2 | previous owner noticed it or did something about it. We were very | lucky that nobody has been electrocuted. The only saving grace was | that wood screw that run through the black conductor was part of the | teak trim, therefore the AC current strength was limited because it | had to travel through the teak before reaching aluminum rail. No | wonder it was stronger when teak was wet. | | Big thanks to all members that responded to my query. The suggestion | about checking each circuit one at the time allowed me to pinpoint | problem circuit. The rest was just a pain of getting to right wires | and replacing them. | | One lesson, I have learned from that incident is that if you are | getting electrically zapped it is an AC and not DC current. My | initial measurements with voltmeter using DC were not correct even | though it shown DC voltage. After switching to AC measurement readout | stabilized indicating AC volts. I was reading 9.2 AC volts between | rail and the ground. | | Now, to next project of dealing with 50 Amp pull from side-to-side | refrigerator. I think I will enlarge my house bank to 1000 Amp/hrs. | | Igor Kapuscinski | M/V Pretty Lady | Chris Craft 460 Canstellation | From Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com Mon Jun 4 16:13:21 2001 From: Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com (Kapuscinski, Igor) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:13:21 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: re: Stray voltage/current between deck fittings and rubrail - Why? Summary Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F331A1B1@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> What really threw me off was the DC voltage readings. Man, I was so sure it was DC current because tingling was not bad when deck was dry. You were absolutely right, I had an inventer running to power the refer and all the receptacles on-board. My big mistake. I do not get hit with AC current very often, therefore it was a new experience. I hope it will not happen again. Igor Kapuscinski M/V Pretty Lady -----Original Message----- From: Tony Marshall [mailto:tonymarshall@hargray.com] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 12:39 PM To: Kapuscinski Igor Subject: RE: re: Stray voltage/current between deck fittings and rubrail - Why? Summary Your first post stated that you were not connected to AC. That is why I asked if you had an inverter aboard, since they can be started by a small load. I realized that it was AC, though I did not say so in so many words. _____________________________ Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head Island, SC From Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com Mon Jun 4 16:20:18 2001 From: Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com (Kapuscinski, Igor) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:20:18 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Stray voltage Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F331A1B2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> I did come close to being one of those bodies in the water. I still get goosebumps whenever I think about it. The refer/inverted bank is composed of Deka Gels (2x8Ds, 1x4D). I may want stay with gels since introducing lead/acids would require to many changes (second Balmar alternator, another charger, etc.) Igor Kapuscinski M/V Pretty Lady -----Original Message----- From: Thataway@aol.com [mailto:Thataway@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:00 PM To: Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com; trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: Stray voltage Igor, Most interesting story! John Wayne allegedly put hot 110 v to rails on Boston Whalers he kept in the water astern of WILD GOOSE, and the neutral into the water in Mazatalan in the late 60's--a few floating bodies later the thiefts of his Whalers stopped. If you have not already put golf carts in, the refer/inverter bank is the ideal place for them. Bob Austin From alexh@olypen.com Mon Jun 4 16:49:56 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:49:56 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Blue smoke In-Reply-To: <000301c0ecec$ae31a520$40c25c8b@wiznet.com> Message-ID: <00f701c0ed37$ea581840$efcfeed0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sikora" > CAT3208's (non-turbo). They pore out large clouds of blue smoke when I start > the engines cold. After they reach the operating temperature there is just a > hint of blue Hi John, First, with all due respect to Garrett: Blue smoke = Oil burning Black smoke = Soot from incomplete combustion but White smoke = Unburned diesel (It's also called "Cold Smoke") Water vapor or steam is distinguishable from these by the fact that it dissipates almost immediately while the others are more persistent. On to the question at hand! Your description seems inconsistent with the way diesel engines act. I'm guessing that what you're actually seeing is white smoke with a bit of blue mixed in. Try another sense out on what comes out of the exhaust pipe; Since white smoke is unburned fuel, that's what it smells like. Blue smoke (oil) smells completely different and since I'm lousy at descriptions, suffice it to say that you'll almost certainly recognize it as being the same as something you noticed at a stoplight a few times or after a messy oil change perhaps. Try to determine if there's a difference in smell between the clouds you're seeing at startup and the wisps you see idling at the dock. Small amounts of blue smoke could indicate that your rings or valve guide seals are getting a little tired but it's probably no big deal (for a while yet anyway). BTW: If you aren't using 15w40 motor oil you should be. There is strong evidence that 4-stroke diesels burn less oil with 15w40 than with a straight grade oil. Clouds of white smoke at startup could be slightly low compression, injector timing that's a bit out of whack, or low cetane fuel. Again this isn't necessarily something to worry about if it's happening at temperatures below 40F (about 4C). If it's happening at higher temps or if it started doing this recently and/or suddenly then it's probably time to call a mechanic. If you really do have clouds of blue smoke then you're on your own but I suspect it's serious. Let me reiterate, however, that I don't think you've got clouds of blue smoke. Conjecturally yours, Alex From Awgertoo@aol.com Mon Jun 4 17:14:10 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:14:10 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Blue smoke In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2b.16606a5d.284d5422@aol.com> In a message dated 6/4/01 4:52:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alexh@olypen.com writes: << Blue smoke = Oil burning Black smoke = Soot from incomplete combustion but White smoke = Unburned diesel (It's also called "Cold Smoke") >> Blue Smoke=new rings Black Smoke=new injectors White Smoke=new Pope Michael (ducking) From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 19:10:59 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: sound of rotten wood In-Reply-To: <001a01c0eac0$348c3c40$f17863d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20010604231059.92843.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Anyone care to take a stab at explaining the sound of rotten wood? I have a real fun problem that Im betting this is the cause. Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rcrogers@annapolis.net Mon Jun 4 19:34:39 2001 From: rcrogers@annapolis.net (Ron Rogers) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:34:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: sound of rotten wood In-Reply-To: <20010604231059.92843.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c0ed4e$f033c310$693382d0@ronthfp1w0rg6> Sounds dull and punky. You should be able to drive a knife blade into the wood. Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD ----- Original Message ----- > Anyone care to take a stab at explaining the sound of > rotten wood? From kfredden@verizon.net Mon Jun 4 20:08:32 2001 From: kfredden@verizon.net (Kevin Redden) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:08:32 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: sound of rotten wood In-Reply-To: <001101c0ed4e$f033c310$693382d0@ronthfp1w0rg6> Message-ID: Ron, I thought it sounded like "ka-ching, ka-ching" - the sound the cash register at the boat yard makes when you pay for the carpentry bill! :-) Kevin > -----Original Message----- > From: On Behalf Of Ron Rogers > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:35 PM > Subject: TWL: Re: sound of rotten wood > > Sounds dull and punky. You should be able to drive a knife blade into the > wood. > > Ron Rogers > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Anyone care to take a stab at explaining the sound of > > rotten wood? > From mikey@efni.com Mon Jun 4 20:15:34 2001 From: mikey@efni.com (Mike & Kym Eedy) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:15:34 EDT Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob, <> The point about ventilation is not to process waste just to keep the odour down until you can deal with it. And you need different bacteria for the anaerobic vice aerobic action - the aerobic ones just tend to smell better or maybe it's just not smell at all. Mike Eedy M/V Excalibur North Bay ON Mikey@efni.com From mikey@efni.com Mon Jun 4 20:15:36 2001 From: mikey@efni.com (Mike & Kym Eedy) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:15:36 EDT Subject: TWL: Cabin heater fuel pump In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Garret, <> I don't think Canadian Tire really makes anything. I have a suspicion that it would have been a rebadged Dickenson or such. That might be a better avenue of approach. Mike Eedy M/V Excalibur North Bay ON Mikey@efni.com From e16@telus.net Tue Jun 5 00:33:37 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:33:37 -0700 Subject: TWL: Simple Water System Repair Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Mike You're correct, of course. CTC is a department store that private labels a lot of items as "Mastercraft" but they don't make any of them. Unfortunately, there is usually no way to determine who did make it. Cheers, Garrett From Nunas@pacific.net.sg Tue Jun 5 03:17:19 2001 From: Nunas@pacific.net.sg (AKAMA) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:17:19 +0800 Subject: TWL: Finding Boat Stuff Message-ID: Recently, I needed to find some information in my stored Krogen Owners' List emails. I spent hours looking for a specific email that I could clearly recall receiving but just could not find it. If you are like we, you have a huge number of emails and files stored away on your confuser from TWL, SSCA, LAL and such. We keep this stuff with the idea being that when it comes time to properly fix that leaky snoofus, or bleed the framus on the main engine pintle, we will be able to find the collected wisdom right on the hard disk. Except, we can never really find anything when we need it. Our confuser HD has become as an elusive source as all those boating magazines that we kept piled up in our library when we lived ashore. Well, we've found the answer! A company called SilverLakeTech has several search engines for use on PCs that provide the same sort of search capability as the big search engines on the web. We downloaded (www.SilverLakeTech.com) and tried out two programs that have already proved to be a godsend. One is CD Builder and the other is PC Data Finder. We bought the latter one right off the web site. We have no connection with these guys. Maurice & Louise-Ann Nunas KK 48 Whaleback #2 Ponggol Marina, Singapore From WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL Tue Jun 5 07:18:12 2001 From: WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL (Whicher Robert E BATH) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:18:12 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil Message-ID: <4E5A67A1565AD311A62D0008C79137A80243C93A@exch.sbath.navy.mil> There is strong evidence that 4-stroke diesels burn less oil with 15w40 than with a straight grade oil. Guru Bob "Lehman" Smith highly recommends the use of straight weight oil in Ford Lehman's. I'd love to change to a multi weight, but hate the "I Told you so!" Any comments? Bob Whicher From rsherwin@stratosnet.com Tue Jun 5 04:35:00 2001 From: rsherwin@stratosnet.com (Donna K. Bakale-Sherwin) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:35:00 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Heading for home in San Francisco Bay Message-ID: Today is June 4th and we have just anchored in Bechers Bay on Santa Rosa Island in the Channel Islands. Tomorrow we will head around Pt. Conception (yawn) and on up to one of our favorite memory places -- Port San Luis, where we spent a lovely week getting the trasnmission fixed on our Marine Trader in Sept. of 1999. Things are very different. Pt. C no longer looms as one of the world's great traumas, although we do expect it to be a bit rough. No worse than the trip up from Baja--all things are now measured against that. We spent 3 weeks in Ensenada and got the teak painted forest green. We spent 4 weeks in Dana Point doing some warranty work (not totally finished yet) and also added cockpit carpeting and a forest green canopy over the cockpit. Now, if we EVER get into sunny conditions we can sit out there well protected. There is some sun somewhere I hope. We will stop overnight at Pt. San Luis, San Simeon, Monterey, and Half Moon Bay. When we do get to the Bay, we plan to do lots of long weekends out of the slip and plan to spend some time in the Delta!! Looking forward to meeting up with some of you on the water. We will be berthed in San Leandro. Major glitch on the berth in Ballena. We are still paying for it, but can't use it as a live-aboard. Long story. I have much research to do to figure out how to have a safety net if we NEED to be in the Bay area for a long period of time some time in the future. There are NO liva-aboard slips of this size, but there are lots of waiting lists. Donna Sherwin M/V Four Seasons Heading North Nordhavn 46 From mknott@bcpl.net Tue Jun 5 09:51:21 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:51:21 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B1C51CD@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From Whicher Robert E BATH ===== > There is strong evidence that 4-stroke diesels burn less oil >with 15w40 than with >a straight grade oil. > >Guru Bob "Lehman" Smith highly recommends the use of straight weight oil in >Ford Lehman's. I'd love to change to a multi weight, but hate the "I Told >you so!" > >Any comments? While I have no doubt that Mr. Smith is the foremost authority on the Lehman Ford engine, if I had one, I would use 15W40 lube oil in it. I have an 18-yr.-old Perkins, that I think is a very similar engine. I use 15W40 in it. And, I'm not convinced that it is even thin enough during colder times of the year. And, if you've got a turbo charger (which I don't) I would think this could be even more of an issue. That is, getting oil to it as quickly as possible. The quicker you get oil to moving parts, the better. And that is going to happen quicker with a multi-vis lube oil than with a straight weight oil. On the other end, the multi-weight oil will not thin out as much under high temperature than a straight weight oil (typically, a 30W oil). On a slightly different topic. I have a high-tech TDI diesel car. The manufacturer requires 5W40 synthetic oil to be used. I'm even considering using a 5W30 or 0W30 in it to get the oil moving even faster. If I eventually get to go cruising full time one day, I may invest in by-pass filtration and synthetic oil in my old Perkins so that I can reduce drain frequency. I think lube oil technology has come a long way since the days of straight weight oil and I see no reason not to take advantage of it. My two cents worth. Your mileage may vary... Mel Knott Mel Knott Sandpiper Chris Craft West Indian 36 Annapolis, MD From pkoch@dtex.com Tue Jun 5 09:47:57 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:47:57 -0400 Subject: TWL: interference with gps Message-ID: When I run both my GPS and Radar at the same time the GPS turns off and does some funny thing with resetting, etc. If the radar is on Stand By then the GPS is fine, when switched from Stand By to on then the GPS goes off, resets, etc. I originally thought that it was a power problem so I ran a separate power line for the radar, which didn't help. I am now thinking that the GPS is being radiated by the radar, however, the radar antenna is approx. 10 feet behind and three feet higher than the GPS antenna. Next, I intend to move the GPS antenna next to the radar antenna and raise it higher than the radar antenna. Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated. Thank You in advance, Paul Koch mv Serendipity New Jersey From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Tue Jun 5 10:01:34 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:01:34 -0400 Subject: TWL: interference with gps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010605094952.00a1e0a0@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> At 09:47 AM 6/5/01 -0400, Paul Koch wrote: >....I originally thought that it was a power problem so I ran a >separate power line for the radar, which didn't help.... Still sounds like power to me. Do they share a common ground wire or have you run two separate grounds back as well? A pulse of noise on the ground line could screw up the GPS as well as if it were on the power line -- either way it translates to a momentary drop in the voltage delivered across the GPS. If you haven't run separate grounds, then I would try to do that by just laying a heavy ground in rough -- hanging over the side of the boat and in through the pilot door or whatever. Don't bother hiding it away nicely in the wiring channels until you know it makes a difference. If it does make a difference, then I might still try to apply some DC line filtering to the problem before I actually ran a separate wire in a finished manner. Your GPS might just want some L-C filtering at the DC inputs. Or LC filters on the radar DC input since it may be putting noise into all your other 12v stuff on the bridge and the GPS just happens to be the most sensitive. Good luck.... Bill From LRZeitlin@aol.com Tue Jun 5 10:05:20 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:05:20 EDT Subject: TWL: Bleach in heads Message-ID: <8e.168e8779.284e4120@aol.com> << Also, We were cleaning the heads today and wondered how safe it is to use > bleach to clean them. This would put bleach into the hard plastic holding > tank and may create fumes? Is this wise or is it better to buy special > cleaners for this purpose? >> I made the mistake at layup a couple of years ago of adding bleach to the antifreeze solution I usually put in my head to avoid frost damage. I believed that the disinfectant properties of bleach would minimize the slime I usually have to clean out every spring. That it did, but it also swelled and damaged all the rubber and plastic valves and impellers. My slime cleaning was eliminated at the cost of a head rebuild kit. All of which goes to prove that you can't do just one thing. Every action has its consequences. Larry Zeitlin From tonymarshall@hargray.com Tue Jun 5 10:07:20 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:07:20 -0400 Subject: TWL: interference with gps In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010605094952.00a1e0a0@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: I'll bet it is an overdose of RF. _____________________________ Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head Island, SC From WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL Tue Jun 5 10:13:56 2001 From: WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL (Whicher Robert E BATH) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:13:56 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: interference with gps Message-ID: <4E5A67A1565AD311A62D0008C79137A80243C93C@exch.sbath.navy.mil> I had a similar problem with an early model 45 Garmin. The small case did not have enough shielding. I was told by Garmin that some, not any particular brand, of radars sent out a dirty signal and just wouldn't work. I upgrade to the 75 at the time and solved problem. garmin said if I wrapped the back of GPS with tin foil it may give enough shielding. May be a good test. The Garmin 48 works OK, same radar -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koch [mailto:pkoch@dtex.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:48 AM To: Trawler World List (E-mail) Subject: TWL: interference with gps When I run both my GPS and Radar at the same time the GPS turns off and does some funny thing with resetting, etc. If the radar is on Stand By then the GPS is fine, when switched from Stand By to on then the GPS goes off, resets, etc. I originally thought that it was a power problem so I ran a separate power line for the radar, which didn't help. I am now thinking that the GPS is being radiated by the radar, however, the radar antenna is approx. 10 feet behind and three feet higher than the GPS antenna. Next, I intend to move the GPS antenna next to the radar antenna and raise it higher than the radar antenna. Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated. Thank You in advance, Paul Koch mv Serendipity New Jersey From AlorMaria@aol.com Tue Jun 5 10:35:17 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:35:17 EDT Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <60.f4c2460.284e4825@aol.com> In a message dated 6/5/01 9:48:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mknott@bcpl.net writes: << While I have no doubt that Mr. Smith is the foremost authority on the Lehman Ford engine, if I had one, I would use 15W40 lube oil in it. >> Hi Mel, Wow. Something we can disagree on. I'm playing the oil thing pretty close to the vest. In new and rebuilt engines, I will take advantage of the latest oil technology. In "experienced" engines with "questionable" or unknown maintenance histories, I will stick to what I can determine is currently keeping the engine happy. Sometimes that means going with what was readily available or recommended when the engine was built. In my own boat's case, I know the previous owner used "Sears" brand detergent 30 weight with a "CC" designation. The new "softer" Sears has switched to a primarily ladies apparel merchandising concept and has dropped single weight diesel engine lubricating oil from their product mix. Their loss. Ladies apparel can be a very fickle business while diesel lubricating oil..... I used Quaker State until they lost their diesel rating and then switched to Shell Rotella 30 weight. At the end of last year I had to use Pennzoil 40 to get a diesel designation in a single weight. (I was caught on the unforgiving eastern shore of New Jersey and had to take what I could barter from some unfriendly natives.) I notice she turns over slower on these 50 degree mornings. I'm not changing it. The weather has to warm up sometime. OTOH, we traded in my wife's turbocharged convertible with over 120K miles on the original turbo which still regularly reached full boost. That car had always used 5-30w synthetic oil and the last winter got 0-30w. I think it made a big difference. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" (home at last) From mknott@bcpl.net Tue Jun 5 10:39:40 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:39:40 -0400 Subject: TWL: Bleach in heads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B1C6047@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From LRZeitlin@aol.com ===== > >I made the mistake at layup a couple of years ago of adding bleach to the >antifreeze solution I usually put in my head to avoid frost damage. I >believed that the disinfectant properties of bleach would minimize the slime >I usually have to clean out every spring. That it did, but it also swelled >and damaged all the rubber and plastic valves and impellers. My slime >cleaning was eliminated at the cost of a head rebuild kit. All of which goes >to prove that you can't do just one thing. Every action has its consequences. Good point Larry. But I would also strongly caution about mixing hypochlorite solution with ANY other chemical. It's not worth the risk of a chemical reaction that could release lethal gas. Mel Knott From mknott@bcpl.net Tue Jun 5 10:50:28 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:50:28 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B1C6410@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From AlorMaria@aol.com ===== >Hi Mel, > >Wow. Something we can disagree on. Hi Al, It had to happen sooner or later... ;-) > >I'm playing the oil thing pretty close to the vest. In new and rebuilt >engines, I will take advantage of the latest oil technology. In "experienced" >engines with "questionable" or unknown maintenance histories, I will stick to >what I can determine is currently keeping the engine happy. Sometimes that >means going with what was readily available or recommended when the engine >was built. I'll partially agree with you in that I've heard of some problems (primarily with leaking seals) when switching to synthetic in older engines. But I would still take advantage of the mulit-vis properties of Shell Rotella T 15W40 dino oil over SR-T 30 wt. Regards, Mel From Mrmoo5@aol.com Tue Jun 5 10:52:26 2001 From: Mrmoo5@aol.com (Mrmoo5@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:52:26 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: sound of rotten wood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It sounds just like a cash register! Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA From AlorMaria@aol.com Tue Jun 5 10:57:33 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:57:33 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: sound of rotten wood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7a.15e63a65.284e4d5d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/5/01 10:53:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mrmoo5@aol.com writes: << It sounds just like a cash register! >> No, No, No. It is a dull thud. Like banging your head against a wall. {8^0 If you do the work yourself, it ain't expensive at all. Just time consuming, messy and if done correctly, invisible. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Tue Jun 5 11:15:04 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:15:04 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: <60.f4c2460.284e4825@aol.com> Message-ID: <002801c0edd2$4dc44f80$d3ec4e0c@KennethMcQuage> , I will take advantage of the latest oil technology. In "experienced" engines with "questionable" or unknown maintenance histories, I will stick to > what I can determine is currently keeping the engine happy... *** The new generation of diesels are required to be greatly improved in of fuel efficiency - they run cleaner and hotter. The lubricants developed for these engines are required to the meet higher standards of lubrication these engines require. The CC standard has long been surpassed . The current generation of diesel lubricants in wide distribution is CH - with the next generation - CJ already developed but not yet in wide distribution. While older engines may actually not ' require ' a CH rated oil - because the tollerances of the engine parts fit may be much less - they run cooler - will tolerate much more abuse and crud in circulation with the il -- I think this is an unusal case where the latest may actually be the greatest - and since the cost of even the best oil is pennies compared to any cost of engine repair ......... All the Best Ken From jschroeder1@uswest.net Tue Jun 5 11:46:56 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:46:56 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: interference with gps In-Reply-To: <4E5A67A1565AD311A62D0008C79137A80243C93C@exch.sbath.navy.mil> Message-ID: I've had an allied problem with my depth sounder interfereing with my VHF. Its intermittent, and only bothers Ch 16. I've tried several things to solve the problem, with no success. Its not a serious problem, but it is a nuisance. It predated my radar installation. Jerry Schroeder M/Y Surprise 21' R21 Ballard,WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Whicher Robert > E BATH > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 7:14 AM > To: 'Paul Koch'; 'Trawler World List' > Subject: TWL: RE: interference with gps > > > I had a similar problem with an early model 45 Garmin. The small case did > not have enough shielding. I was told by Garmin that some, not any > particular brand, of radars sent out a dirty signal and just > wouldn't work. > I upgrade to the 75 at the time and solved problem. garmin said if I > wrapped the back of GPS with tin foil it may give enough > shielding. May be a > good test. > > The Garmin 48 works OK, same radar > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Koch [mailto:pkoch@dtex.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:48 AM > To: Trawler World List (E-mail) > Subject: TWL: interference with gps > > > When I run both my GPS and Radar at the same time the GPS turns > off and does > some funny thing with resetting, etc. If the radar is on Stand By then the > GPS is fine, when switched from Stand By to on then the GPS goes off, > resets, etc. I originally thought that it was a power problem so I ran a > separate power line for the radar, which didn't help. I am now thinking > that the GPS is being radiated by the radar, however, the radar antenna is > approx. 10 feet behind and three feet higher than the GPS > antenna. Next, I > intend to move the GPS antenna next to the radar antenna and > raise it higher > than the radar antenna. > Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated. > > Thank You in advance, > > Paul Koch > mv Serendipity > New Jersey > From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 5 12:29:24 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:29:24 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Blue smoke Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1EF4@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:51:23 -0400 From: "John Sikora" Subject: TWL: Blue smoke >What's the general opinion on blue smoke at start - up. I have twin CAT3208's (non-turbo). They pore out large clouds of blue smoke when I start the engines cold. After they reach the operating temperature there is just a hint of blue and that's only noticeable if the engine is idling at the dock. Is this normal? Is there a normal? Some of this depends on the "generation" of your diesels. I'm afraid the only engines I'm somewhat familiar with are the old 120 hp Ford Lehmans on our boat. But it's not uncommon for engines to emit some or a lot of blue smoke on startup. This is due to the oil that's left in the upper valve train under the rocker cover seeping down past the valve stems into the cylinders. Depending on the type and age of the engine, the amount of seepage will vary considerably. As a generality, the older the design, the sloppier the tolerances, and the more oil will seep down. Radial aircraft engines are notorious for this, if you've ever watched a large one start up. As the oil that's collected in the cylinders burns off, the blue smoke will disappear. However, and again this is dependent on the design and age of your engines, an engine may continue to "pull" a bit of oil into the cylinders via the valve stems due to the high vacuum in each cylinder in the intake stroke. So you may get a blue haze during idle. As the valve guides continue to wear, the amount of oil finding its way down into the cylinders will slowly increase. Every engine will do this eventually, as whenever you have moving parts you have at least a degree of wear. When the wear reaches a certain point, as evidenced by the constant presence of blue smoke at an undesirable volume, the head will have to be overhauled. Another cause of oil getting into the cylinders while the engine is running is one or more worn rings. In this case, oil is "pulled" up past the rings into the cylinder. I am not familiar with Cat3208s, and have no idea how "new" that engine design is. I know that as environmental concerns and regulations tighten up, engine designers have been wrestling with a bunch of problems that were ignored in the past, such as incomplete fuel burn when an engine is cold. On older engines like our Lehmans, unburned fuel simply goes out the exhaust, where it is visible on glassy water as a light sheen. That was acceptable back in the '60s and '70s, but it isn't today, and the engine manufacturers and marinizers have been trying hard to reduce or eliminate the amount of unburned fuel in the exhaust. Valve guide tolerances that allow oil to get into the cylinders weren't considered a big deal a few decades ago, but I suspect it's a much greater concern now. Our old Lehmans behave somewhat similarly to your engines, although the cloud of blue smoke at startup isn't very big and it doesn't last very long, perhaps five to ten seconds, after which the engines emit only a faint haze. There is no smoke that I can discern when the engines are warmed up and running at cruise rpm (1,500), although both engines emit steam from the exhaust which could be masking whatever smoke is present. When we return to port and the engines have been idling for a while as we motor to our slip, they both emit a slight haze again. But oil consumption right now is minimal, about a quart every 100 hours (at which point we have the oil and filters changed). But if the Cat 3208 is a "new generation" design, I would think they would not emit smoke (or unburned fuel) under normal conditions other than perhaps briefly at cold startup. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From richard@richardmorrison.com Tue Jun 5 10:45:36 2001 From: richard@richardmorrison.com (Richard Morrison) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:45:36 -0500 Subject: TWL: Tip - Lehman oil cooler zinc Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010605093350.00b25680@shell14.ba.best.com> Thought I would pass along a tip I came across in speaking with American Diesel yesterday. This may have been obvious to everyone else, but just in case there are any other rookies out there.... I was curious as to how the small oil coolers got along without zincs. I was told the zinc in the main heat exchanger also takes care of these, BUT there needs to be a good conductive contact between the mounting bracket and the oil cooler. (I had, of course, prepainted the new oil coolers in the standard Regal Red.) I was advised to sand down to bare metal at the clamp point. Just passing it along... Richard ------------------------- 49' Marine Trader Pilothouse (1978) SF Bay, CA From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Tue Jun 5 12:08:16 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:08:16 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: purchasing a diesel- new or rebuilt? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to all for the great replies. I can forward on the wisdom for any interested parties. So far, the venerable Ford Lehman seems to be the favorite, with the American Diesel remake a close second. There is favorable acclaim for a rebuilt system from a reputable shop. Once again, the resources on this List amaze me! DB From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Tue Jun 5 13:23:40 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:23:40 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: interference with GPS Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB64B3EC1@BCMAIL1> Paul, When I was installing radar, I became concerned about radiation from even the small radar sets, so to convince the Marina owner of how serious this issue was I made a scale drawing showing the vertical beam spread and how this related to helm station and seating plans on the Carver boats he sold. In every case the radar beam painted the backs of the heads of every person sitting or standing on the flybridge when the radar was mounted in the factory designated position on the arch. From your description, the GPS antenna is still within the radar beam. The vertical spread of most radar beams is 15 degrees above and below the horizontal center line. In addition; there are what is called spurious side lobes which do not extend very far away from the radar antenna. But ten feet is considered very close in radar terms. Wire trough location is another issue. If the cables for both radar and GPS run parallel for any distance, even just a few feet, there is a possibility that the current pulses of one will radiate from the cable and leak into the other. A radar uses extremely powerful but short bursts of power. The average power draw may only be 10 amps but the output power of most radar is rated in kilowatts 1, 2, 4, and even more for the bigger units. regards Arild Jensen -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koch [mailto:pkoch@dtex.com] Subject: TWL: interference with gps When I run both my GPS and Radar at the same time the GPS turns off and does some funny thing with resetting, etc. If the radar is on Stand By then the GPS is fine, when switched from Stand By to on then the GPS goes off, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From pkoch@dtex.com Tue Jun 5 14:22:44 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:22:44 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: interference with GPS Message-ID: I should repeat that it only happens when the radar is actually transmitting a signal, when in standby the GPS is fine. I also thought that it was a power problem so I ran a separate circuit form the lower panel to the radar. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Arild Jensen [mailto:Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 1:24 PM To: 'Paul Koch'; Trawler World List (E-mail) Subject: RE: interference with GPS Paul, When I was installing radar, I became concerned about radiation from even the small radar sets, so to convince the Marina owner of how serious this issue was I made a scale drawing showing the vertical beam spread and how this related to helm station and seating plans on the Carver boats he sold. In every case the radar beam painted the backs of the heads of every person sitting or standing on the flybridge when the radar was mounted in the factory designated position on the arch. From your description, the GPS antenna is still within the radar beam. The vertical spread of most radar beams is 15 degrees above and below the horizontal center line. In addition; there are what is called spurious side lobes which do not extend very far away from the radar antenna. But ten feet is considered very close in radar terms. Wire trough location is another issue. If the cables for both radar and GPS run parallel for any distance, even just a few feet, there is a possibility that the current pulses of one will radiate from the cable and leak into the other. A radar uses extremely powerful but short bursts of power. The average power draw may only be 10 amps but the output power of most radar is rated in kilowatts 1, 2, 4, and even more for the bigger units. regards Arild Jensen -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koch [mailto:pkoch@dtex.com] Subject: TWL: interference with gps When I run both my GPS and Radar at the same time the GPS turns off and does some funny thing with resetting, etc. If the radar is on Stand By then the GPS is fine, when switched from Stand By to on then the GPS goes off, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From fjflinn@accessbee.com Tue Jun 5 14:35:47 2001 From: fjflinn@accessbee.com (fjflinn) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:35:47 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Heading for home in San Francisco Bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c0edee$574f7b80$c6d94240@oemcomputer> Dear Donna If you are willing to go up the Sacramento river abit.you should be able to find some very nice marinas that allow liveaboards in the western Delta.The trip down to the Bay is pleasant and takes only a few hours. You wont find the challenge you had coming up from Cabo, but the Delta is a very nice place. fred flinn From alexh@olypen.com Tue Jun 5 16:00:54 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:00:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff Message-ID: <00d901c0edfa$3af956c0$c2f9c8d0@gte.net> Compliments, A couple of questions have come up about what kind of oil to use and whether or not one kind or one brand is better than another. I'm going to lump my comments together here. First; I've often mentioned my preference for 15w40 motor oil especially for 4-stroke diesels. America Diesel/Lehman guru Bob Smith recommends a straight grade oil for those engines. So the question is; who is right? The answer is; I don't know. Mr. Smith probably knows more about the Lehman family of engines than anyone on the planet and that lends a lot of weight to his side of the discussion. OTOH: He's on an island in this case. Every other 4-stroke engine builder that I can think of recommends 15w40 (I am doing this from memory - We just moved and my literature is still in a box somewhere). There are also several logical arguments in favor of 15w40. I mentioned them in an earlier post so I won't repeat them here. That post can be found at: http://www.samurai.com/lists/trawler-world-old/2001/04/1263.html I have never met or corresponded with Bob Smith so I don't know what his reasons are for preferring single grade oils in his engines. It is possible that there is something unique about Lehmans that make single grade oil a better choice for them. There are also a number of common arguments for single grade oils that are either specious or outmoded. In the end we simply don't have enough information to say that one type of oil is better than another and under that circumstance my advice is to go with what the engine builder says (especially if there is a warrantee involved). Next; There was a question about whether one brand is better than another. This particular question concerned Shell Rotella T 15w40 vs. Chevron Delo 400 15w40 and the assertion (made in a different forum) that Chevron's base stock is superior to Shell's. Poppycock! First; For motor oil, base stock isn't the major determinant for how well the oil does its job. Far more important are the large number of additives used in the formulation. Second; Base stocks are exchanged fairly freely among the various refiners since it's often more efficient to by your competitors product than to transport your own hundreds or thousands of miles. Hence, if you buy Chevron product on the east coast it may very well have been made using Shell base stock. Conversely if you buy Shell product in California it could contain Chevron components. Even more likely is that whatever oil you buy it will contain stocks made by Exxon/Mobil since they are by far the biggest producer of base stocks [Before the merger Exxon was far bigger than second place Mobil which was, in turn, far bigger than whoever was third]. Finally; Engine builder's requirements are just too strict these days to allow much difference between oils. Back in the days when the toughest requirement was API CD there was a fair amount of latitude to make an oil that just barely met the spec or one that far exceeded it. Back then Chevron's sales pitch was; "Our oil is so good it already meets the next specification without reformulating!" Those claims aren't made anymore, not by Chevron, not by anyone. Everyone is reformulating for every new spec and the requirements are getting restrictive to the point that any oil that passes the latest spec will be almost indistinguishable from every other oil that meets that spec. About two years ago the company I worked for dropped Chevron from it's line in favor of Exxon. During the transition an Exxon guy told me that Chevron's Anti-wear package was a percentage point or so better than Exxon's while Exxon's Rust and Oxidation package was a little bit better than Chevron's (comparing premium 15w40 oils). The point being that there wasn't any significant difference back then and the requirements are even tougher today and are scheduled to get stricter still in 2004. Restrictively yours, Alex From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Tue Jun 5 16:19:17 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff In-Reply-To: <00d901c0edfa$3af956c0$c2f9c8d0@gte.net> Message-ID: <20010605201917.84174.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> All this oil talk makes me wonder what exactly happens to the oil we dispose of properly. Is it all recycled? None? Some? Is it in turn just thrown out? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From psnorth@mediaone.net Tue Jun 5 16:26:03 2001 From: psnorth@mediaone.net (psnorth) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:26:03 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: <3B1C51CD@webmail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: >Frommy perspective, today there is little risk of viscosity breakdown vs. the need for multi viscosity in colder climates. As a result, I use Shell Rotella 15W-40 in my Lehman 135. Here in New England I run the boat from April through November and winterize it for the winter. With all due respect to Bob Smith, he seldom makes it north into our area, especially when the temp begins to drop (Bob Smith if you see this, please grin). In my high tech diesel car, also a TDI, I use Mobil 1 5W-40 in the warmer season and 0W-30 in the winter. Peter North Salty Dog KK42 #52 Lying Salem, MA From Thataway@aol.com Tue Jun 5 17:07:33 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:07:33 EDT Subject: TWL: Fuel bases Message-ID: <27.1686fdd3.284ea415@aol.com> Alex's comments about oil bases are true for the actual fuel also. In most areas a barge or tankers bring in gasolene or diesel to a depot. The truck that takes it to the marina or service station pulls up and fills up with gas or diesel and then the "brand's" additatives are put into the tanker. The gas or diesel that you buy at Shell, Texaco and Brand X at Circle K are all the same fuel--just the additatives are different. Bob Austin From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Tue Jun 5 17:07:21 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:07:21 -0700 Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A33FCF@BCMAIL1> -----Original Message----- From: Dan Symula [mailto:adventuresoul@yahoo.com] Subject: Re: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff All this oil talk makes me wonder what exactly happens to the oil we dispose of properly. Is it all recycled? None? Some? Is it in turn just thrown out? Dan That depends a lot on your local laws and regulations. In Ontario, there is one company that is licensed to collect and re-refine used oil. You pay them to haul it away. They bought a couple of small obsolete catalytic cracker refineries and now do a booming business refining all the used oil they collect. In other localities, the oil gets treated as hazardous waste and no way will a local municipality license anyone to recycle this stuff. NIMBY!! Go figure!! Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From Rollsdoc@aol.com Tue Jun 5 17:14:01 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:14:01 EDT Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <54.158d223c.284ea599@aol.com> In a message dated 6/5/01 9:48:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mknott@bcpl.net writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> Small automotive engines have small oil passages that require a thinner (lower viscosity) oil on start up. Engine manufactures recommend oils for their engines. Some automotive engine builders even recommend synthetics. I would stick with the manufactures recommendation. Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Tue Jun 5 17:36:31 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: Fuel bases In-Reply-To: <27.1686fdd3.284ea415@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010605213631.63351.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Now the question becomes does any of the recycled oil find its way to the shelves in the form of oil we buy for the trawlers? If so, it would have some amount of original additives in it, depeneding on how it was refined and recycled, something I dont know to comment on. --- Thataway@aol.com wrote: > Alex's comments about oil bases are true for the > actual fuel also. In most > areas a barge or tankers bring in gasolene or diesel > to a depot. The truck > that takes it to the marina or service station pulls > up and fills up with gas > or diesel and then the "brand's" additatives are put > into the tanker. The > gas or diesel that you buy at Shell, Texaco and > Brand X at Circle K are all > the same fuel--just the additatives are different. > > Bob Austin ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Jerrysail@aol.com Tue Jun 5 17:53:26 2001 From: Jerrysail@aol.com (Jerrysail@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:53:26 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: sound of rotten wood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55.168e4b6b.284eaed6@aol.com> I learned that sound from Dreamer II. She was a beautiful Spakmans Stephens Weekender. A 35-foot sloop built of Mahogany on Oak frames in 1938. She taught me ship carpentry over a decade and I learned to enjoy restoring her. My attitude is captured so well, in the words of the Author Joe Richards, that I had them engraved on a brass plate mounted in the saloon. Those words are: "THUS IT WAS THAT EACH NEW PART THAT I FASHIONED, USING THE OLD PART AS A TEMPLATE, MADE HER THAT MUCH YOUNGER." Really loved that old boat' Jerry O'Neill GB 32 #677 ADVENTURE Annapolis, MD. From flyjbaker624@aol.com Tue Jun 5 18:07:28 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 18:07:28 EDT Subject: TWL: Tropical storm Allison Message-ID: <41.c604412.284eb220@aol.com> I think I am getting sea sick. Allison kinda snuck up on us down here in SE Texas and I am sitting on my boat (in the slip) in the middle of it all. Winds are around 40-45kts and raining sideways. I hope all you SE Texans are doing okay. Trawler on, John From rbryett@mail.com Tue Jun 5 18:27:03 2001 From: rbryett@mail.com (Robert Bryett) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:27:03 +1000 Subject: TWL: RE: purchasing a diesel- new or rebuilt? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>>In trying to budget out my trawler building project, I'm looking into the engine/drive train. The designer (Charlie Wittholz) specs out a 150 hp engine for this installation. Seems a bit on the large side for a 48' full displacement hull, but then he probably knows more than I do.<<<< 150HP does seem high. It might be worth checking if the designer is quoting the rated maximum continuous power, or the peak power the engine can produce. The designer might know more than you do, but there's no reason why you shouldn't ask him to explain his choice. >>>>Are there any 150 hp naturally-aspirated diesels being made today? The major players don't seem to be doing it, but then, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.<<<< If you haven't already, you might visit http://boatdiesel.com and search their database of engine ratings. I do know that Deutz rates its naturally aspirated D229-6 at up to about 130HP (but only about 100HP continuous). Regards, Robert Bryett Sydney, Australia. mailto:rbryett@mail.com From flyjbaker624@aol.com Tue Jun 5 18:39:09 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 18:39:09 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: purchasing a diesel- new or rebuilt? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/5/2001 5:25:43 PM Central Daylight Time, rbryett@mail.com writes: << I do know that Deutz rates its naturally aspirated D229-6 at up to about 130HP (but only about 100HP continuous). >> What about John Deere, Catepillar/Perkins/Sabre, Westerbeke, American Diesel, Stehr.....I am sure I am missing a few. Trawler on, John From fburrows@mail.com Tue Jun 5 19:35:30 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:35:30 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff In-Reply-To: <20010605201917.84174.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605192034.01dc03e0@pop.site1.csi.com> Dan: There was a big push a few years ago by SafetyCleen to get the EPA to classify used motor oil as a hazardous waste. This would have required manifesting (lots of paperwork and recordkeeping) the transportation of used oil and more than likely there would have been a charge for you to dispose of your used oil. They decided that the real problem is car owners changing their own oil and putting it down storm sewers, not garages and marinas improperly disposing of the used oil. They wisely decided to leave it alone and just encourage the car owners to properly dispose of the oil by taking it to their local car dealer or gas station. Generally the used oil companies will either pick up the oil for free or sometimes pay the garage a small amount (.02 or .03 per gallon) for the used oil. The biggest problem for the garage is to make sure that no one mixes gasoline with the used oil. If that happens then the whole tank full becomes a hazardous waste and that is a huge problem. When the truck comes to pick up the oil they check it for contaminates. By the way diesel fuel is ok to mix with the used oil. The waste oil people generally sell the used oil for fuel in heavy industrial applications like bituminous plants. Frank Burrows 1979 43' Viking MY Piney Narrows Marina Chesapeake Bay > >All this oil talk makes me wonder what exactly happens >to the oil we dispose of properly. Is it all recycled? >None? Some? Is it in turn just thrown out? From e16@telus.net Tue Jun 5 19:44:17 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:44:17 -0700 Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is one of those great conundra whose answer we'll never know for sure. I have 16 litres of the previous owner's oil in 4 sealed containers. That's about 15 quarts, enough to change one engine next week, and leave about 3 quarts for top-ups which I very rarely need. It's straight 30 grade type CH, Petro Canada's "premium" brand. For the other engine, I've purchased a 20 litre "barrel" (~19 quarts) of 15W40 from Canadian Tire Corp, a local chain retailer. While some folks sneer at "CTC oil" the simple fact is that it, too, meets APC CH specifications. Unless I either mistrust APC standards or want to accuse CTC of mis-labelling - I think not - the only issue is single or multi-grade. On that point, the only consistent citation for using single grade oil in my Lehman 120's is Bob Smith, but I've never seen his rationale. OTOH, everyone else I've asked says multi-grade, and since the temp in my area occasionally drops to zero C (32F), that's what I'd use instinctively. Since I'm not about to toss the straight 30, I'm going to conduct a very unscientific experiment and see if there's any remarkable difference by the end of next season. I expect none. Now, for the really big dilemma: which oil in which engine... Cheers, Garrett From abinning@ovc.uoguelph.ca Tue Jun 5 20:25:45 2001 From: abinning@ovc.uoguelph.ca (Allen Binnington) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:25:45 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B1D7889.23B69CD3@ovc.uoguelph.ca> Garrett Lambert wrote: > > For the other engine, I've purchased a 20 litre "barrel" (~19 quarts) of > 15W40 from Canadian Tire Corp, a local chain retailer. Hi Garrett I don't know if CTC still does it but it used to say on it's diesel oil who the refiner was. Always one of the biggies. Also a quick math correction 20 litres = approximately 21.2 US quarts. In my case, I use Valvoline Allfleet 15W40 as I get a great price at a farm supply outlet. Cheers Al Binnington GB 36 FALKOR (Cummins 210 single) From doughoople@earthlink.net Tue Jun 5 20:27:22 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383655394.991787243539.JavaMail.root@web621-wrb.mail.com> Garrett, Great idea for twin-screw owners with a bit of science in their blood: Now, for the really big dilemma: which oil in which engine... Run the competing grades side-by-side for a year, do the lab tests, check the consumption, and come back with a report. No problems with comparing conditions, they're identical! If you're worried about the engines wearing at a mismatched rate, just swap the one for the other for another year, and you should be back where you started, and quite a bit wiser. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From AlorMaria@aol.com Tue Jun 5 21:09:08 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:09:08 EDT Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8e.169f020c.284edcb4@aol.com> In a message dated 6/5/01 7:42:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, e16@telus.net writes: << I'm going to conduct a very unscientific experiment and see if there's any remarkable difference by the end of next season. I expect none. Now, for the really big dilemma: which oil in which engine... >> Hi Garrett, You might want to pay close attention to your course lines during this summer. When your engines are cold, your boat will turn slowly to the side with the 30w. When she gets hot, that extra 10w in the 15-40w will cause her to pull to the other side. Just another thing to worry about. ;^) Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From mhknott@home.com Tue Jun 5 21:34:33 2001 From: mhknott@home.com (Mel Knott) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:34:33 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A33FCF@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: <004201c0ee28$d778e1e0$44bc0941@owml1.md.home.com> > > All this oil talk makes me wonder what exactly happens > to the oil we dispose of properly. Is it all recycled? > None? Some? Is it in turn just thrown out? > > That depends a lot on your local laws and regulations. > > In Ontario, there is one company that is licensed to collect and re-refine > used oil. You pay them to haul it away. > They bought a couple of small obsolete catalytic cracker refineries and now > do a booming business refining all the used oil they collect. > > In other localities, the oil gets treated as hazardous waste and no way will > a local municipality license anyone to recycle this stuff. NIMBY!! > > Go figure!! Still, in other areas much of the waste lubricants are used as fuels in boilers of factories and power plants. Mel Knott From Mrmoo5@aol.com Tue Jun 5 21:58:11 2001 From: Mrmoo5@aol.com (Mrmoo5@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:58:11 EDT Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some of the used oil is sold to foreign shipping companies to burn in their ships. Of course the few American shipping companies left cannot do so thanks to the environmental wackos. Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA From jtones@home.com Tue Jun 5 20:59:19 2001 From: jtones@home.com (John & Judy Tones) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:59:19 -0700 Subject: TWL: Radar Interference Message-ID: <000e01c0ee23$ebaca480$0f1d4118@gv.shawcable.net> With all the talk about your radar causing interference with other units I thought I would pass along a bit of info I ran into the first year I had radar on our boat. We went up towards the northern end of Vancouver Island (east side) and every time I went into a marina, someone had a stuck mike on the local marina common channel (CH 73) - turns out it was MY radar, a new Furuno 1721 and man does it radiate ! I can vertually wipe out radio reception on CH 73 for about a quarter mile radius when the radar is running. Furuno says that it is not every unit that does it, some radiate on adjacent channels instead and some don't do it at all. Since the shop I bought it from does not seem to understand what might cause it I have never gone any further with it, just remember to turn it off when I want to use CH 73 ! John Tones MV Penta (MV 'cause that's what it says on her "British Ships Registration Certificate) From rcrogers@annapolis.net Tue Jun 5 22:18:35 2001 From: rcrogers@annapolis.net (Ron Rogers) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:18:35 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: interference with GPS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002501c0ee2f$01ac3330$840418ce@ronthfp1w0rg6> Paul, Is your radar ground (on the back of the CRT case) run to it's own external ground plate - e.g.: a sintered bronze plate on the bottom? My Raytheon interfered with my VHF until I removed the ground from the negative bus bar (where the tech had placed it) and attached it to the LORAN's Dynaplate. Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD ----- Original Message ----- > I should repeat that it only happens when the radar is actually transmitting > a signal, when in standby the GPS is fine. I also thought that it was a > power problem so I ran a separate circuit form the lower panel to the radar. > > Paul From jalexander@ticz.com Tue Jun 5 21:28:43 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:28:43 -0400 Subject: TWL: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010605212843.007e02f0@pop.ticz.com> I am new to the list and while I am pretty sure that what I bring up here has probably been covered a hundred times in the past, with a hundred different opinions, I'm going to ask anyway. As background let me state that I have been pretty much a sailor these past several years, but as I am getting "long in the tooth" and have lost most of my crew (family)to their own lives, I now find that most of our cruising will be just me and my mate. So, last year I sold my Whitby 42 Ketch and this year plan to transition into a trawler. I have spent quite a bit of time researching boats, but because of my budget, under 150K, find that I am mostly looking at Marine Traders, Defevers, Island Gypsy's, etc. All obviously in the 20 year old range. Of course I have also found a few other makes, such as Ocean Alexander, Present, Albin and even an occaisional Grand Banks in that price range. Now the question comes, what do I buy? Perhaps I should discuss my intended use. I do not plan to live aboard and having just purchased a home on the Water I will be able to dock the boat behind my home. But, I do intend to do lots of cruising between Florida and the Bahamas and perhaps even further down into the Caribbean. I know that I want range and I have almost determined beyond doubt that I want twin engines for ease of handling at the dock and redundancy on the open water. This leaves open two questions, size and type (or mfg). I personally feel that I should buy the "biggest" boat I can afford and that seems to fall into the 42-44' range. However, if I buy a smaller boat, say 36', then I can afford to move up a few years and get a newer boat, generally speaking. But, is a smaller boat going to be as "seaworthy" for my intended use? Question here is obvious, am I better off with a smaller, newer boat or an older, bigger boat? Then we come to type. I commonly see boats like the Marine Trader referred to as "a good Coastal Cruiser". Is it then a satisfactory vessel for my intended use? If not, how does one draw the line between a "Coastal Cruiser" and a "Bluewater" boat? Certainly even I realize the difference between say a Nordhaven and a Marine Trader, but I could never afford the former. To my way of thinking, most all of the vessels in the list I am considering are similar to the Marine Trader, so perhaps they all are in the "Coastal Cruiser" category? Power, is their anything to be considered when looking at boats with regard to their diesels? Seems that the vast majority of the boats are powered by Lehmans or Perkins with a few Volvo's and Cat's in the mix. Seems I heard somewhere that Perkins were becoming hard to find parts for? Most of the Volvo's seem to be "turbo" engines and I have been led to believe that it is best to avoid them too due to high maintenance (and failure) costs associated with turbo engines. The boats powered by Cat's tend to all be of much higher horse power, but I hear "you can throttle down for economy", can you really do that and still get long engine life? Even I agree that there are probably occaisions where that extra horsepower (translated to more speed) would be nice to have, but in the long run it just costs too much in fuel cost and range to use that horsepower often. Well, this should be enough to get me some needed input on the subject from those with first hand experience. Jim Alexander From jschroeder1@uswest.net Tue Jun 5 22:54:13 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:54:13 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010605212843.007e02f0@pop.ticz.com> Message-ID: Two must books to read in your position. Beebe's "Voyaging Under Power" and Buehler's "The Troller Yacht." Even if you disagree, they'll force you to think thru your views. Best of luck. Jerry Schroeder M/Y Surprise 21' R21 Ballard, WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Jim Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 6:29 PM > To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com > Subject: TWL: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? > > > I am new to the list and while I am pretty sure that what I bring up here > has probably been covered a hundred times in the past, with a hundred > different opinions, I'm going to ask anyway. > > From jschroeder1@uswest.net Tue Jun 5 22:54:13 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:54:13 -0700 Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A friend with a fishing boat often tosses his used oil into his fuel tank and relies on the fuel polisher to clean things up. Is this a naughty thing? Jerry > Some of the used oil is sold to foreign shipping companies to > burn in their > ships. From Thataway@aol.com Tue Jun 5 23:16:29 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:16:29 EDT Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil Message-ID: <53.6e7f0cf.284efa8d@aol.com> For what it is worth I have about 7,000 hours between a Ford Lehman 90 and Perkins 85 using 15/40--Either Delo and Rotella--depending on which was available. When I sold the boats both engines had excellent oil analyis, burned no oil and did not smoke. Both of these engines have gone another 3,000 hours without overhaul. Bob Austin From jim_donohue@computer.org Tue Jun 5 23:18:12 2001 From: jim_donohue@computer.org (Jim Donohue) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:18:12 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Radar Interference In-Reply-To: <000e01c0ee23$ebaca480$0f1d4118@gv.shawcable.net> Message-ID: Actually that is a pretty clear violation of the law - which is pretty much the same in the USA and Canada - by Furuno. This is what Hams call a birdie - a carrier on some particular frequency caused by some piece of equipment that has no business radiating there. They really should have offered to fix it. I would give you 98% odds that they know where it comes from - and can fix it if they choose. Two demerits for Furuno if you actually talked to them (and not a dealer) However on your side it is only a nuisance and unlikely that you will catch a formal complaint. If someone did complain by the way you could get shut down real fast - and forbidden to use your radar until the problem was fixed. That is what would happen if the birdie was on 16 or 13 rather than 73. That is however sufficiently unlikely that I would not worry about it Jim. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of John & Judy > Tones > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 5:59 PM > To: Trawler World > Subject: TWL: Radar Interference > > > With all the talk about your radar causing interference with other units I > thought I would pass along a bit of info I ran into the first year I had > radar on our boat. > We went up towards the northern end of Vancouver Island (east side) and > every time I went into a marina, someone had a stuck mike on the local > marina common channel (CH 73) - turns out it was MY radar, a new > Furuno 1721 > and man does it radiate ! I can vertually wipe out radio > reception on CH 73 > for about a quarter mile radius when the radar is running. > Furuno says that it is not every unit that does it, some radiate > on adjacent > channels instead and some don't do it at all. Since the shop I bought it > from does not seem to understand what might cause it I have never gone any > further with it, just remember to turn it off when I want to use CH 73 ! > > John Tones MV Penta (MV 'cause that's what it says on her "British Ships > Registration Certificate) > > From rossflem@serv.net Wed Jun 6 01:43:06 2001 From: rossflem@serv.net (Ross Fleming) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 22:43:06 -0700 Subject: TWL: Multigrade and other oil stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:58:11 EDT, Mrmoo5@aol.com wrote: >Some of the used oil is sold to foreign shipping companies to burn in their >ships. Of course the few American shipping companies left cannot do so thanks >to the environmental wackos. I have seen several oil blending systems for sale in the commercial and high end recreational marine markets. They slowly blend in waste oil with your diesel. I would assume that they are legal in that application. ---------------------------------------- Ross Fleming rossflem@serv.net Seattle, WA From alexh@olypen.com Wed Jun 6 02:41:32 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:41:32 -0700 Subject: TWL: Oil Recycling Message-ID: <023c01c0ee54$03376740$c2f9c8d0@gte.net> I sent the first part of this to Dan Symula privately instead of posting it to the list (which is what I wanted to do but the computer once again failed to read my mind). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Symula" > All this oil talk makes me wonder what exactly happens > to the oil we dispose of properly. Is it all recycled? > None? Some? Is it in turn just thrown out? > Hi Dan, Some of it is re-refined into lubricants. One that comes to mind is Chevron's "Eco" line of motor oils but I'm sure that there are many others. BTW: Chevron doesn't actually make "Eco" motor oil, they buy finished product from a third party (last I heard anyway). It's my understanding that re-refined oil is used as the initial fill in certain high end European cars. That said, there isn't a large enough market for this type of product so most of the oil that you recycle is burned in steam plants and the like. There is a percentage of waste oil that must be disposed but that's because some folks choose to not follow the rules for recycling. When waste oil is picked up it is tested for contaminants like gasoline, antifreeze, chlorinated solvents, and probably some other stuff that I don't remember. Too much "bad" stuff and it can't be used for fuel or re-refining feedstock. In the case of a commercial customer that kind of contamination can raise the bill by an order of magnitude. In the case of the recycle tank at your marina the recycling company simply removes the tank and the tenants are left to fend for themselves. And now a follow-up of sorts: From: "Dan Symula" > Now the question becomes does any of the recycled oil > find its way to the shelves in the form of oil we buy > for the trawlers? If so, it would have some amount of > original additives in it, depeneding on how it was > refined and recycled, If any re-refined oil is available it will be labeled as such. Re-refining lube oil is not a trivial undertaking. I'm not familiar with the exact process but it would have to include the following elements: 1. Some sort of analysis to make sure that there aren't any contaminants that might "poison" the process. 2. Some sort of gross cleanup to get rid of the big chunks in the feedstock - could be a settling tank, a heated settling tank, or a centrifuge. 3a. Additive stripping - probably chemical but could also use an activated carbon filter (either way this step is expensive). 3b. Additive analysis - Most oils use basically the same group of chemicals as additives so if you figure out what you're starting with on a given batch then you can just add stuff till you get to where you want to be. 4. Vacuum distillation - Essentially the same process as is used for extracting lube stocks from crude oil. 5. Blending and additizing - Also the same as for crude oil feedstock. 6. Disposal of the leftovers - Similar to what happens in a crude oil refinery but complicated by the fact that some components are almost certainly carcinogenic (have you noticed that mechanics usually wear rubber gloves these days?). Please note that these steps aren't necessarily in order. For example #3a would probably be done before #4 while #3b would be done after #4. In the end a re-refined product has no inherent difference from a virgin product except for the provenance of the feedstock. Finally, this thread has reintroduced the subject of blending used motor oil into the vessel's fuel for disposal. This technique has proven effective for extending service intervals in long haul trucking which, of course, reduces downtime. In the context of a recreational (or pleasure, or personal) vessel this is going to be expensive, messy, hazardous (to engine and operator) or some combination of those things and with no positive return in exchange for those disadvantages. [A "high hour" skipper like Bruce Kessler or Dolph McRanie might realize some benefit but IMHO even that is doubtful] The subject of oil/fuel blending has been discussed several times in the past on TWL; A bit of archive mining should turn up a wealth of information on the subject. Greenly yours, Alex From ross@prabiz.com Wed Jun 6 06:50:35 2001 From: ross@prabiz.com (David P. Ross) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 06:50:35 -0400 Subject: TWL: interference with gps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: SNIP>>When I run both my GPS and Radar at the same time the GPS turns off and does some funny thing with resetting, etc.< SNIP>>That is what would happen if the birdie was on 16 or 13 rather than 73. That is however sufficiently unlikely that I would not worry about it<<<< I chased a channel 16 "birdie" for two years through grounding, shielding, separate power circuits, and eastern incantations (Eastern Shore). The dealer couldn't figure it out, either. The "birdie" didn't get off the boat, but it affected every VHF on the bridge. I finally dragged out the schematic of the radar and just studied it. I found that the 13th harmonic of one of the IF oscillators was exactly on channel 16. When I called Raytheon, they told me that I was correct, and they replaced the crystal for free. I would have imagined that such a problem would trigger a recall or service bulletin. Dave Ross Reston, Virginia ross@prabiz.com From flw.ipswich@juno.com Wed Jun 6 09:08:02 2001 From: flw.ipswich@juno.com (flw.ipswich@juno.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:08:02 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re: Remote operation seacocks Message-ID: <20010606.080802.222.0.flw.ipswich@juno.com> On our 30' Royal Lowell lobster boat we have 2 very poorly located seacocks, not only are they out of arms reach, but you have to wiggle around a hot manifold to get in there. Any remote operation ideas. Thanks, Frank From rquarles@coastalnet.com Wed Jun 6 08:15:28 2001 From: rquarles@coastalnet.com (Richard Quarles) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 08:15:28 -0400 Subject: TWL: interference with gps In-Reply-To: <20010606040016.2BC192624D@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <3B1E1EDE.CFED280B@coastalnet.com> >>>> >>>>When I run both my GPS and Radar at the same time the GPS turns off and does >>>>some funny thing with resetting, etc. For what it's worth, when we had the electronics installed on our Nordic Tug, we had exactly the same problem. Both the radar and GPS are Raytheon units and the antennae are located about 10' apart on the roof of the pilot house. Raising the GPS antenna about 6' solved the problem. As indicated by Arild in another response, by eye it did not appear that the GPS antenna would be within the radar beam, but it sure seemed to be. Never a problem since! Note that the problem and solution were noticed at the time of installation. Rick Quarles Barric II, 32' Nordic Tug From klemmons@airmail.net Wed Jun 6 08:56:10 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:56:10 -0500 Subject: TWL: Oil Recycling Message-ID: <3B1E286A.D46CEDA4@airmail.net> Oil that's dropped off at a recycler goes through a vacuum distillation, much like the original product that comes out of the cat cracker. You pull off various fractions that are as good as new oil. The lower (heavier) ends end up in asphalt, or maybe as fuel for a cement kiln. Very little, if any goes to waste. -- __________________ Keith "A man without a woman is like a fish without a bicycle." - U2 From klemmons@airmail.net Wed Jun 6 09:12:41 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 08:12:41 -0500 Subject: TWL: Oil recycling II Message-ID: <3B1E2C49.1F4C6847@airmail.net> I decided to read to the end of the digest today before writing the second one... I'm not sure if the manufacturers blend recycled oil in with their new, but I kinda doubt it. Most of the majors aren't in the recycling business anyway. You can find recycled oil in the auto parts places, but it's clearly labeled as such, and pretty cheap. Since the distill it and add the additive packages back into it, it's pretty much as good as the "new" stuff. I've never seen recycled oil in a boat supply though. As to putting used oil in the fuel... There are systems you can buy for large yachts that do just that. It's fine as long as you put a LITTLE at a time in there, and not enough to significantly change the basic makeup of the fuel. How much is a little? I can't tell you, but I would imagine it takes a LONG time to burn up 16 quarts! You might accomplish it by the next oil change, maybe not. Of course, there's a web site with probably more than you'd ever want to know, but it does have a recycling center locator and a lot of other info. Run by the API (American Petroleum Institute.) http://www.recycleoil.org/ -- __________________ Keith A nuclear war can ruin your whole day. From Awgertoo@aol.com Wed Jun 6 09:18:49 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:18:49 EDT Subject: TWL: Oil recycling II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/6/01 9:06:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, klemmons@airmail.net writes: << As to putting used oil in the fuel... There are systems you can buy for large yachts that do just that. It's fine as long as you put a LITTLE at a time in there, and not enough to significantly change the basic makeup of the fuel. How much is a little? I can't tell you, but I would imagine it takes a LONG time to burn up 16 quarts! You might accomplish it by the next oil change, maybe not. >> Racor makes a sytem to inject and blend into the fuel used engine oil. It is certainly NOT dumped into the fuel in bulk, but rather is stored, filtered and blended at specific ratios, then injected into the fuel supply. My recollection is that the lube oil can be something like 1% or so of the fuel and still burn efficiently, but again this is an onboard system dedicated solely for this purpose and probably would not be cost-efficent for anything but large workboats and even larger yachts that are generating a lot of used oils from gen-sets, etc. I do not think this is within the scope of any of this list's subscribers. Best--Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From paul@browne.net Wed Jun 6 09:36:30 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 6 Jun 2001 06:36:30 -0700 Subject: TWL: To the Rescue! Message-ID: <20010606133630.13947.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Ahoy there Shipmates, Well the Icebreaker Danielle has completed her first emergency response mission. The Resident Love Goddess and I were steaming up the mighty Alafia River on Pelican Patrol the other day. We had just rounded a bend and slid under the highway bridge, when the horrific scene unfolded itself before us. A boat was on her beam ends, Shipmates, with people in the water. Off on the south bank there was a yellow fire engine, with red lights flashing. Fire fighters were milling around the waters edge. They had blue plastic gloves on clearly emergency medical response types, eager to do their duty, but powerless against the mighty Alafias boiling current and catfish-infested waters. Full right rudder! All engines ahead full! I commanded, and I/B Danielle leapt into action. As we closed on the bank, some of the less experienced firefighters felt it prudent to vacate the shaky dock. But fortunately a couple of the braver ones stood their ground and grabbed Danielle by the bow plank. Wrestled her by the sno ut like bulldogs they did. I must say I was surprised by what happened next. The Chief appeared in his white shirt and began barking orders. Three of his larger men, all solid chaps with square jaws and square crew cuts, vaulted over the bow plank, landing their hobnail boots squarely on Danielles foredeck. The Resident Love Goddess was in her element. Hi fellas, she cooed. Leaving the RLG to organize the men, I stuffed the shift lever astern and turned up the wick, but I had underestimated the Chief. Shouts drew my attention ford again, and I turned to see the men dragging their leader over the bow plank. They sort of flopped him sputtering onto the foredeck, then stood him up respectfully. The bow roller had printed two neat black marks down the front of his white shirt, and his shoes were soggy wet, but the Chief didnt even notice. Hell, they were in hot pursuit! I poured the diesel oil to her. Danielles mighty engine sucked great gasps of air into her two metallic lungs, squeezing it mercilessly until open injectors drove her pistons back downward with hellfire itself. Every timber shuddered as the power of eighteen raw horses pounded down the shaft to the churning propeller. Water boiled white from the bow as the fire fighters crowded forward, pushing the stem down and lifting the stern. These were truly men of action, I thought. And as we steamed ever forward into the fray, I had opportunity to observe the unique character of the modern fire fighter. Strange it is that such men are capable of instant response to crisis, yet just as able to seize short moments to refresh themselves through relaxation. Within two minutes our passengers had slipped into the latter behavior, strolling around the boat, chatting with the Resident Love Goddess and quizzing the Captain. When did you say this boat was built? one said. How long will it take to get there? You got any oars or something? asked another,lounging in a deck chair and accepting a glass of lemonade from the RLG. Such gentle moments must be rare intervals in a firefighters life. How could I fault them for living them to the full, for our duty grew ever closer? Until soon enough we were upon it, and the devastation was spread out before us. The capsized boat was an outboard, with one of those high aluminum frames that incorporate elevated seats for spotting fish or some such thing. Like most of her breed, she was slab-bottomed, hard-chined, and certainly over-powered. I guessed that her occupants had attempted to execute a tight high-speed turn, without respecting the inherent limitations of such details. Must have been quite a thrill from up in those sky seats. But wait, there was another clue. Now we could see another vessel behind the capsized boat. It looked like - yes it was - the local marine patrol boat and there was a line running from the uppermost side of the capsized boat to its stern. So that was it! The yahoos had been dragging a dock line, and they managed to foul the marine patrol boat, flipping themselves over in the process. Boy o boy, were they in trouble! But laying blame could wait; there were survivors to rescue. And there they were Shipmates, two half-drowned men flailing in the water not 100 feet dead ahead of us. They were pretty well on their last legs too, because as Icebreaker Danielle rushed to their aid, the poor fellows were so distraught and confused that they stopped their flailing and most of their shouting, and actually began to swim away from their salvation. Strange the effects brackish water can have on a desperate mind. We closed in, and the firefighters readied themselves for action. One armed himself with the boathook, and another leaned way out over the bulwarks while the third held his comrades feet. We snared the two survivors on the first pass. In less time than it takes to tell about it, the one on the port side was secured with the boathook up his right pant leg, and the other on the starboard was held by the vice-like grip of a blue-gloved hand around his left ankle. Trouble was, Danielle still had some way on, and the survivors were slippery and too deluded to cooperate, so they got hauled and dunked and thrashed through the water for a few yards before we came to a full stop. They were noisy too, hollering and cussing. Youd think that men in such terrible trouble would be more appreciative. Well at this point the Chief showed why he was the Chief. For instead of becoming caught up in the excitement of the rescue, he alone had retained his composure. Standing up on the bow plank, he had established communication with the marine patrol officers. I didnt follow all of it, but at one point the chief turned to his men. Let em go guys, he commanded. The men were dumbfounded. Let em go, Chief? Ah she it. But we just got em. Yeah, let em loose, he said dejectedly, Turns out theyre just trying to right the boat. Aint nobody hurt. Now it was a pretty quiet ride on the way back. But the fellows brightened up towards the end of it, mostly because the Resident Love Goddess told them how brave they had all been, and how she hoped they were around next time she needed rescuing. So when we got to the bank, they were pretty well back to normal. The Chief even shook my hand. Told me he would call on us next time there was an emergency on the river, as long as he gets a couple of hours notice. And were ready too. So next time youre on the mighty Alafia, you can rest assured that theres a top notch emergency response team all set to save your bacon should you have trouble. Bills a cop. I wunner if he could get me one of them screaming syreens and a red flashy light? Paul Browne Geezer Boatworks (new pics at http://hometown.aol.com/pbrowne900/boat.html) PS - I bet a lot of folks on the list have made daring rescues. How about telling us about them? From LRZeitlin@aol.com Wed Jun 6 09:58:44 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:58:44 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #339 Message-ID: <107.e0b468.284f9114@aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/01 12:03:47 AM, Arild writes: << In every case the radar beam painted the backs of the heads of every person sitting or standing on the flybridge when the radar was mounted in the factory designated position on the arch. >> And some people worry about cell phones - - - Larry Zeitlin From tonymarshall@hargray.com Wed Jun 6 09:47:56 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:47:56 -0400 Subject: TWL: Oil recycling II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So does X-Change-R. See URL below http://www.x-change-r.com/oilfuel.htm _____________________________ Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head Island, SC | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com | [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of | Awgertoo@aol.com | Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 9:19 AM | To: klemmons@airmail.net; trawler-world-list@samurai.com | Subject: Re: TWL: Oil recycling II | | | In a message dated 6/6/01 9:06:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, | klemmons@airmail.net writes: | | << As to putting used oil in the fuel... There are systems you can buy for | large yachts that do just that. It's fine as long as you put a LITTLE at | a time in there, and not enough to significantly change the basic makeup | of the fuel. How much is a little? I can't tell you, but I would imagine | it takes a LONG time to burn up 16 quarts! You might accomplish it by | the next oil change, maybe not. >> | | Racor makes a sytem to inject and blend into the fuel used engine oil. It is | certainly NOT dumped into the fuel in bulk, but rather is stored, filtered | and blended at specific ratios, then injected into the fuel supply. My | recollection is that the lube oil can be something like 1% or so of the fuel | and still burn efficiently, but again this is an onboard system dedicated | solely for this purpose and probably would not be cost-efficent for anything | but large workboats and even larger yachts that are generating a lot of used | oils from gen-sets, etc. I do not think this is within the scope of any of | this list's subscribers. | | Best--Michael Oritt | 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com Wed Jun 6 11:44:31 2001 From: Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com (Kapuscinski, Igor) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:44:31 -0700 Subject: TWL: Add more batteries or create a new battery bank? Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F331A1BB@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> I need to discuss this idea with others. More heads is better than one! My present battery situation is: House bank Deka Gels 2x8D, 1x4D (220 + 220+180=620 A/hrs) when new Engines Deka Gels 1x8D each engine Genset Deka Gels 1xGroup31 Charging: Balmar 100A dual output - house bank and one engine, inverter under way Delco 55A second engine battery Heart 2000 - 100A house bank - shore power or genset Pro Mariner 80A both engines, genset - shore power Problem: The household refer draws 50A, Anchor light 2A, TV and Video Game in the evening ??? you see the problem, no sneekering please! So after running a genset to cook dinner, hot water heater, etc. batteries are full, at about 8pm. By morning 8 am. voltage drops to about 11.5V. I know, that I am pushing the envelope. We run genset again for cooking, hot water, etc. about 2 hrs. We can only restore part of used Amp/hrs. Refer at 50% run time: 12 hrs/2 * 50A = 300 A/hrs Anchor light 12 hrs * 2 A = 24 A/hrs TV, Game,Lectra-San evening = 30 A/hrs estimate Therefore, I am using more that 50% of my house bank capacity. I need to run genset at least 4 hrs to recover what we have used-up. I like quiet, even though genset is in sound cover you still get little vibration and some noise. It comes to running genset 8 of every 24 hrs. I would like to last through the weekend without having to run genset unless for cooking, hot water or A/C on those hot/hazy/humid afternoons. I need to have a battery bank that will deliver 600+ A/hrs. Is this what others are doing? I have a choice of adding two more Gel 8Ds (440 A/hrs for a total of 1060A/hrs) ~ $850 or supposedly better 6 Golf Cart Acid batteries (3 x 220A/hrs=660 A/hrs) ~ 6 * $90 = $540 but it requires at least new charger $500, battery bank switch and isolation between Gels and Acid, and in all propability new Balmar alternator to recharge secong bank underway $500; for total of between $1000 and $2000. I know you will say, get a new refer. One problem, how do you remove a refer that is 30" wide or deep and your doors are 23" wide and the admiral likes the size of it and shrugs off any mention of getting smaller one. One choice cut it into pieces. Another problem, getting a new one, most of them are at least 24" wide or deep and to small. I am leaning towards getting more Gels and waiting until they get old enough, so I must replace all of them, at once. Current Gels are 5 years old. Any opinions? Alternatives? Thank you, Igor Kapuscinski M/V Pretty Lady Chris Craft 460 Canstellation From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jun 6 12:13:03 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:13:03 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Multi weight oil Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F03@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:18:12 -0400 From: Whicher Robert E BATH Subject: TWL: Multi weight oil >> There is strong evidence that 4-stroke diesels burn less oil with 15w40 than with a straight grade oil. >Guru Bob "Lehman" Smith highly recommends the use of straight weight oil in Ford Lehman's. I'd love to change to a multi weight, but hate the "I Told you so!" Any comments? A good friend of mine is the head of the design department at Alaska Diesel Electric (the Lugger and Northern Lights folks). He's been with the company almost since its inception in Alaska way back when, and has had a LOT of experience with all sorts of marine diesels. When we bought our GB36, which has two 120 Ford Lehmans, he said the proper oil for that engine is basic Delo 400 30wt oil. He told me not to use multi-viscosity oil, but only Delo 400 30wt. So we do. I doubt the Delo 400 is the important part of his advice, as I'm sure there are other brands with the same characteristics. His main point was to use single-weight oil with that engine. However, he did not say why this was important, and I keep forgetting to ask him. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From jmonah@ktxh.com Wed Jun 6 12:14:09 2001 From: jmonah@ktxh.com (Jim Monahan) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:14:09 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F03@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <200106061114090380.05ECBE63@192.169.7.6> We have not heard from Bob Smith as to why he still recommends the single weight oil, but Alex has made several eloquent posts to the contrary and he is certainly an expert in this field. Perhaps there is some middle ground here. Is there any technical evidence/explanation of why single weight may be desirable and if so could someone please post it? When I bought my boat there was no history of what type of oil had been used and it appeared to have many hours on it. I changed and filled with 40w and put about 150 hrs on it with several quarts added in the interim. The next change I used Shell Torella T 15W-30 and the consumption seemed to go down. The next time I changed back to Delo 400 40w after Am. Diesel told me that I really should use a single weight oil and that if I continued to use the multigrade oil I should watch for the oil pressure to start bouncing. He didn't explain what caused the bouncing though. I have still noticed reduced oil consumption with the 40w. I am a little confused with the results. I am interested to see what results Garrett has with his side by side experiment. Single Weighted, Jim Monahan M/V Finale President 43 Seabrook, Texas *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >>> There is strong evidence that 4-stroke diesels burn less oil >with 15w40 than with >a straight grade oil. > >>Guru Bob "Lehman" Smith highly recommends the use of straight weight oil in >Ford Lehman's. I'd love to change to a multi weight, but hate the "I Told >you so!" Any comments? > >A good friend of mine is the head of the design department at Alaska >Diesel Electric (the Lugger and Northern Lights folks). He's been with >the company almost since its inception in Alaska way back when, and >has had a LOT of experience with all sorts of marine diesels. When we >bought our GB36, which has two 120 Ford Lehmans, he said the proper >oil for that engine is basic Delo 400 30wt oil. He told me not to >use multi-viscosity oil, but only Delo 400 30wt. >C. Marin Faure >36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" >Bellingham, Washington From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jun 6 12:33:54 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:33:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F04@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:28:43 -0400 From: Jim Alexander Subject: TWL: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? >I personally feel that I should buy the "biggest" boat I can afford and that seems to fall into the 42-44' range. I have many times heard the exact opposite. Buy the smallest boat you can afford. Of course, you don't want to buy a boat too small for your intended use. But the "buy the smallest" rationale is based on the generality that for a given price, in this case the maximum you are willing to pay, you will be able to buy a newer boat in better condition than if you take the same money and buy the largest boat you can get for it. For example, I've seen a 42' Grand Banks woodie priced at $90,000. While the boat appeared to be basically sound, it very obviously needed a lot of work, from exterior structural work to interior cabinetry, etc. I've also seen early fiberglass 36' Grand Banks priced at $90,000. While they needed some work (what boat doesn't?), the overall condition was far superior to the older 42'. So instead of spending $90,000 for a boat that needed a lot of work before you could begin to use it, you would spend the same money for a slightly smaller boat that was newer, and was in cruising condition already with newer electronics, less time on the engine(s), etc. This is a generality, I know, and there are exceptions. But it's something to consider. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From jschroeder1@uswest.net Wed Jun 6 12:54:31 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:54:31 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? In-Reply-To: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F04@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: There's also the fact that the usage of your boat is inversely proportional to its size, complexity and expense. A few blocks from my house Shilshole has "Marina Queens" that never seem to get out into the lumpy wet. Its just too much hassle and expense. Most of the boats I see on the Sound are between 25 and 35 feet long. You need to juggle that fact vs comfort and safety. For me, the ideal size and type is a 28 foot single screw diesel fiberglass troller. But then, I like to be out cruising rather than working on teak at the dock. Regards, Jerry Schroeder M/Y Surprise 21' R21 Ballard, WA > > Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:28:43 -0400 > From: Jim Alexander > Subject: TWL: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? > > >I personally feel > that I should buy the "biggest" boat I can afford and that seems to fall > into the 42-44' range. > > I have many times heard the exact opposite. Buy the smallest boat > you can afford. > From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 6 12:56:41 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:56:41 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Re: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: <200106061114090380.05ECBE63@192.169.7.6> Message-ID: <000501c0eea9$ab390b60$38ed4e0c@KennethMcQuage> I changed and filled with 40w and put about 150 hrs on it with several quarts added in the interim. The next change I used Shell Torella T 15W-30 and the consumption seemed to go down. ** A lighter weight oil leaves less oil on the walls of the cylenders to be burned on the compression stroke - so oil consumption often goes down - kinda anti intutive innidit ? Ken From jim_donohue@computer.org Wed Jun 6 14:31:19 2001 From: jim_donohue@computer.org (Jim Donohue) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:31:19 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Coastal Cruiser or Bluewater boat? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010605212843.007e02f0@pop.ticz.com> Message-ID: I would think the boats in this class are generally coastal cruisers. None of them will approach the weather handling capability of your Whitby. For Blue water you are looking for things like pretty well sealable boats with water tight compartments, No or well protected exposed windows, Portugese bridges, high bows and almost certainly some form of stabilization. For most circumstances I think the budget blue water boater is better off with a sailboat even if he always motors. For such things though as running the coast from say Alaska to the Canal - Any of them will do reasonably well. Some care that you don't get caught in the Pacific in one of its nasty periods but you can generally avoid those. I have little experience on your coast but I suspect it is a similar deal. I like bigger boats - they don't roll as much in a given sea and take on less water when seas are messy. These are of course generalizations - and specific 36s may be better than specific 42s. I will leave the diesels to those who better understand the things. Jim > > From jim_donohue@computer.org Wed Jun 6 14:41:35 2001 From: jim_donohue@computer.org (Jim Donohue) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:41:35 -0700 Subject: TWL: interference with gps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One way to avoid radar interference on some of the GPSs s too punch a hole in the middle of a pie plate and mount it to surround the GPS antenna. The GPS antenna only needs to see most of the sky and can afford to loose a few degrees at the horizon. Some of the GPSs actually cut off the low satellites. The pie plate is actually a standard trick done on certain fancy installations to avoid multi-path. I would ground the pie plate if convenient but it is probably not neccessary. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of David P. Ross > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:51 AM > To: Trawler World > Subject: Re: TWL: interference with gps > > > > From jalexander@ticz.com Wed Jun 6 13:55:28 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:55:28 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar installations Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010606135528.007a0cc0@pop.ticz.com> I have read with interest the comments this past day about radar interference and see that there are obviously more potential problems than I had previously been aware. One response tripped a thought in my mind with regard to installation and exposure to the radiation. As I indicated in a message yesterday about the search for a suitable boat, I am at present investigating several used boats on the market. I have noticed, especially on one vessel that I am considering, installations of the Radar transmitter on a bracket just forward and below the "line-of-sight" of the Bridge. Now I am not an expert, but I believe that the radiation would have little trouble in penetrating the fiberglas and therefore place the helmsman virtually smack in front of the radiation beam at a very close distance, say about 5 feet. Wouldn't this be hazardous? Jim Alexander From weldred@zoo.uvm.edu Wed Jun 6 15:14:41 2001 From: weldred@zoo.uvm.edu (Wesley Eldred) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:14:41 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F03@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <3B1E8121.732FCD5A@zoo.uvm.edu> Marin: I have heard a similar opinion from over the road truckers. During the early years of multi-viscosity oils, there were problems with these oils breaking down at higher temperatures. I do not believe this is still an issue but while warranties are in effect you might do well to heed mfgr's recommendations. There were also occasional problems when changing older engines to oils with different additives and detergents. Crud deposits could be loosened causing blocked oil passages. There is merit in consistency to avoid any chance of incompatible additives. There is also merit in considering oils that will flow more readily when cold. Wesley LNVT "Little Bitt" So Burlington, VT weldred@zoo.uvm.edu "Faure, Marin" wrote: > >Guru Bob "Lehman" Smith highly recommends the use of straight weight oil in > Ford Lehman's. I'd love to change to a multi weight, but hate the "I Told > you so!" Any comments? > > A good friend of mine is the head of the design department at Alaska > Diesel Electric .... He told me not to > use multi-viscosity oil, but only Delo 400 30wt. So we do. I doubt > the Delo 400 is the important part of his advice, as I'm sure there > are other brands with the same characteristics. His main point > was to use single-weight oil with that engine. However, he did not > say why this was important, and I keep forgetting to ask him. From jalexander@ticz.com Wed Jun 6 14:28:32 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:28:32 -0400 Subject: TWL: Multiweight oils Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010606142832.007eab40@pop.ticz.com> Anyone know about or has tried any of the Synthetics in diesels? jim From Chiropaul@aol.com Wed Jun 6 15:29:26 2001 From: Chiropaul@aol.com (Chiropaul@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:29:26 EDT Subject: TWL: Heart's Desire Safely Home! Message-ID: <9e.157dbe55.284fde96@aol.com> Hi Everyone, We're home at Woodmere Bay Yacht Club in East Rockaway, NY!! The trip was fantastic. My crewmate, Mike was providing payback for my help transporting his sail boat to and from the north shore of Long Island twice last year (one 16 hr, and a 12hr. day) ;and I left New York Saturday morning in torrential downpours. However, luck was with us as on arriving at Bay Bridge Marina in Stevensville, MD, the rain essentially came to an end. We returned our rental car to Annapolis, got a lift back to the marina and made ready to cast off about noon. As the final lines were removed, I put the starboard clutch into gear and began to move out of the slip. I then engaged the port clutch only to have nothing happen!! Oh Joy!! Back into the slip on one engine, shut down and jump into the engine room to find the morse cable had jumped out of the retaining clip. Easy Fix!! On our way again for a great ride to Chesapeake City. Arrived about 6pm, and relaxed at the Chesapeake Inn and Marina. After dinner we walked into the town which has many quaint 19th century homes that have been renovated. Sunday morning dawned bright and clear but windy. We left at 6am and headed for Atlantic City. This would be the longest leg of the trip, lasting 12 hours. We were averaging between 9.2 to 9.5 knots over ground based on the gps, with seas of 2-3 feet on the starboard aft quarter. This boat has a very comfortable motion in all the points we were on. One of the members of this list had recommended Kammerman's Marina in Atlantic City, which is on the opposite side of the harbor from Trump Marina (which charges $4/foot). While the slip fee was only $2/foot, the marina is very much on the opposite side of the tracks, if you get my drift. It was so off the beaten path that the cabbie we hired to get us back from Trump Castle had no idea where it was. I was glad to have noticed several street names when we left and was able to guide the driver back!! By the way, I won big at the slots, $3.25!!! By the way diesel is $1.59 a gallon here. We awoke after a great nights rest and left by 5:30 for our destination, about 90 miles away. We had the best day yet, with a following sea of 1-2 foot rollers and a cool NW wind at about 10kts. We sat back and enjoyed the ride and were back tied to our dock by 3:30 that afternoon. Not bad!! The boat performed flawlessly the entire trip and truly gave us a feeling of confidence in the way she rode and handled. Now the clean up begins so we can prepare for our "Heart's Desire" of untying the dock lines in about 3 years and really going cruising!! Regards, Paul Schlechter 44' Atlantic MY Heart's Desire From LRZeitlin@aol.com Wed Jun 6 15:45:14 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:45:14 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation Message-ID: The July issue of Soundings has a very interesting article about a planned circumnavigation in a Nordhavn 40 trawler. This will be a factory financed trip, manned by Nordhavn factory personnel and a few assorted guests and journalists. Nordhavn suggests that the trip will take about 25 weeks. The trip should test Nordhavn's assertion that the Nordhavn 40 is a true ocean going vessel rather than a coastal cruiser or surrogate summer home. If the trip is completed without boat problems, they certainly will be proven correct. More interesting than the voyage itself is the astoundingly low fuel consumption figures claimed by Nordhaven. The engineers have managed to design a boat which uses only half the fuel of comparable displacement trawlers. To quote the article: "Cruising speed will be 6 to 7 knots, the trawler's most efficient range. At 6 knots the Nordhavn 40 burns 0.78 galons per hour and has a range of 7,878 nautical miles, according to Nordhavn. At 7.01 knots, the vessel burns 1.47 gallons per hour with a range of 4,897 miles." If these figures are true then one of the following is correct: 1. The Lugger diesel is using one of those secret fuel injectors that oil companies kill to protect. 2. The engineers have managed to develop a propulsion system with greater than 100% efficiency. 3. The Nordhavn 40 hull slides through the water slicker than a greased dolphin. 4. The advertising department needs a new calculator and a good dose of reality testing serum. Larry Zeitlin PUFFIN (1/3 the displacement of the Nordhaven 40 but greater fuel consumption at 6 kts.) Cortlandt Manor, NY From slowboat@mindspring.com Wed Jun 6 15:46:58 2001 From: slowboat@mindspring.com (Andy Clark) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:46:58 -0700 Subject: TWL: Blue Smoke Message-ID: <008301c0eec1$77347800$39fa103f@tinyus> > C. Marin Faure wrote: > snip-----------------------As the oil that's collected in the cylinders burns off, the blue smoke will > disappear. However, and again this is dependent on the design and age > of your engines, an engine may continue to "pull" a bit of oil into the cylinders > via the valve stems due to the high vacuum in each cylinder in the intake > stroke. So you may get a blue haze during idle. As the valve guides > continue to wear, the amount of oil finding its way down into the cylinders > will slowly increase. ------------snip. > ---------------------------------- > Partly true. While increasing wear on the valve guides will allow increasing amounts of oil into the exhaust and intake manifolds and thereby into the combustion chamber, this mostly occurs after shut-down (the "dribble" process). You see, a diesel develops no vacuum to speak of. There is no throttle plate in the intake against which the pump (engine) can develop a vacuum, unlike a gasoline engine. Yes, there may a slight negative cylinder pressure during the intake stroke due to intake passage restrictions, but it's generally insufficient to cause the same kind of sucking of oil past the valve guides and seals that you see in your neighbor's 1972 Olds. So, there is no appreciable "pull" to suck oil past the rings or valve guides. > My 120 Lehman has always put out a little blue smoke on start-up that clears up as soon as 1300 rpm is reached. At cruise, I get a white emission that dissipates within about 6 feet of the exhaust exit (most noticeable in the winter here in the great Pacific Northwet), but no blue smoke or haze. Oil consumption (3200 engine hours), using DELO 400 30W is about 20-30 hours per quart, which I have been led to believe is not abnormal for this engine. > So, Alex H, what's the bluish smoke at idle? All other engine indications seem to be normal, so I haven't been too worried about it, but am curious none-the-less. Could it be the 30W oil "bright stock" residue on the cylinder walls? > Now, if I can just get up the courage to switch to 15W40............... >Andy Clark ANTARES CHB 34 Homeport, Everett Washington From arider@bellsouth.net Wed Jun 6 15:58:07 2001 From: arider@bellsouth.net (Bob Clinkenbeard) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:58:07 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Heart's Desire Safely Home! In-Reply-To: <9e.157dbe55.284fde96@aol.com> Message-ID: <002901c0eec3$02390aa0$7a634ed8@arider> > One of the members of this list had recommended Kammerman's Marina in > Atlantic City, which is on the opposite side of the harbor from Trump Marina > (which charges $4/foot). While the slip fee was only $2/foot, the marina is > very much on the opposite side of the tracks, if you get my drift. It was so > off the beaten path that the cabbie we hired to get us back from Trump Castle > had no idea where it was. Did they ever get the bathroom door back on the hinges.......? I stayed at Kammerman's (I'll drop the "marina" and call it "dock") Sept. last year overnight. Since we had no head on the boat I used their facilities. It was in an alley and the door was mostly off the hinges. I got a piece of line from the boat and tied the door shut from the inside for protection while using the aging and unkept bathroom. People were walking on the streets all night and my first mate/friend also took a cab to the Trump Casino since it was across the channel. He had the same experience on the way back early in the morning. I stayed on the boat to guard. His cab driver said he does not normally come into that area of town at night. Never again...... Bob Clinkenbeard To accomplish a great task you must act....and dream. * Weekly progress* 1964 Chris Craft Roamer 56' Chris Craft Antique Boat Club member photos http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=163724&f=0 From Thataway@aol.com Wed Jun 6 16:23:36 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:23:36 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation Message-ID: <6.17b3347a.284feb48@aol.com> I do not find the fuel consumtion to be at all unusual--this is very consistant with what I got with my Cal 46 and a single 85 hp Perkins. An effecient hull of this size takes only about 20 hp to move it at hull speed. What I do find astounding is that they are planning to do it in 25 weeks! This leaves little time to play and little margin for breakdowns. Also no delays for weather--I know folks that have been weathered in for months just trying to get up the Red Sea--in bigger boats than that. And ...there goes that fuel economy. Frankly I see it as a publicity stunt and perhaps dangerous with set schedules. By the way what happened to the Tug Trawler that was going to do the semi circumnavigation of N. America? No post for about 6 weeks! Bob Austin From lmills@mail.state.mo.us Wed Jun 6 16:32:50 2001 From: lmills@mail.state.mo.us (Mills, Lewis) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:32:50 -0500 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation Message-ID: Does anybody remember the Nissan Pathfinder "expedition" a few years ago? It was supposed to go from somewhere in the US, through Central America, and down through South America. There was going to be a whole series of commercials promoting the Pathfinder and showing the progress. As it turned out, the Pathfinder(s) kept getting stuck in the mud in Mexico or Costa Rica or someplace not even halfway through the trip, and Nissan quietly cancelled the expedition and the series of commercials. At least nobody drowned.... Lewis From THOY@TELE-CONNECT.COM Wed Jun 6 16:52:23 2001 From: THOY@TELE-CONNECT.COM (Terry Hoy) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:52:23 -0400 Subject: FW: Re: TWL: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <71D608B618E4D111AE9800C0F028FBDB078CB3@NTSERVER> > We are starting to sound like weekend golfers comparing the latest in > shaft or head technology and the additional 1-2% improvement we might get. > > Terry Hoy From CDJedlicka@aol.com Wed Jun 6 18:30:29 2001 From: CDJedlicka@aol.com (CDJedlicka@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:30:29 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar installations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 06/06/2001 1:56:18 PM Central Daylight Time, jalexander@ticz.com writes: > radiation would > have little trouble in penetrating the fiberglas and therefore place the > helmsman virtually smack in front of the radiation beam at a very close > distance, say about 5 feet. Wouldn't this be hazardous? NO MORE KIDS!!! Regards, Chuck D. Jedlicka MARINE WOODWORKING "If you can dream it, I can build it" Bayou Vista, TX 409-933-4664 From Rollsdoc@aol.com Wed Jun 6 18:48:25 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:48:25 EDT Subject: TWL: Add more batteries or create a new battery bank? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4b.c839f2c.28500d39@aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/01 11:45:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> Ok here's my 2 cents. Take the 8D gells from the engines and add them to the house bank. You could even take the group 31 from the gen set and add it to the house bank. Put two Trojans on each engine and use one engine bat combo to start the gen set. Trojans go for 40 something if you buy a few. 54 is alot. 90 is to much. Then when your gels get tired buy a bunch of Trojans. They are alot easier to handle. Then if a engine battery goes amuck you can get one from the house bank to replace it. I don't know which engines you have or what their power requirements are. I have used group 31s on 120 Lehmans, so IMHO 8D are a bit much. Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Wed Jun 6 18:49:47 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:49:47 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010606184947.007dbce0@earthlink.net> At 03:45 PM 6/6/01 EDT, you wrote: >The July issue of Soundings has a very interesting article about a planned >circumnavigation in a Nordhavn 40 trawler. This will be a factory financed >trip, manned by Nordhavn factory personnel and a few assorted guests and >journalists. Nordhavn suggests that the trip will take about 25 weeks. >Larry Zeitlin ======================================================= Interesting-------Wonder how many of us would try to go around the world?????????? . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From sail1946@hotmail.com Wed Jun 6 18:52:54 2001 From: sail1946@hotmail.com (Mark Stypinski) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:52:54 -0400 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: Recent talk on the list regarding binoculars. For what it's worth one of the BOAT US specials is a pair of TASCO 7 X 50 Sonoma Binoculars on sale. Description as follows "Fully coated optics and Rubicon ruby-coated lenses give you brilliant daylight viewing with minimal light reflection. Rubber armored. Field of view: 372 degrees. Weight 27oz." Regular $139.95 on sale for $49.95. Mark Stypinski M/V Elsea 1974 30 Willard Vega Voyager Pictures at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=143449&a=1050303 Willard Owners Web Site at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7196/ W (517) 373-9766 H (517) 333-5915 Cell (517)281-8003 MTOA 1122 http://www.geocities.com/sail1946/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From flyjbaker624@aol.com Wed Jun 6 19:32:44 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:32:44 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: binocs Message-ID: <8b.7a41f02.2850179c@aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/2001 5:53:11 PM Central Daylight Time, sail1946@hotmail.com writes: << Field of view: 372 degrees >> Now these sound like some awesome binocs. From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 6 20:57:49 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:57:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: Add more batteries or create a new battery bank? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <382442479.991875470006.JavaMail.root@web623-wrb.mail.com> Careful there with all that mixing and matching. With different types/ages of batteries in parallel, they're constantly feeding off each other to keep themselves at a level voltage. It'll wear 'em out quick, and you can even start a fire that way if you're really lucky. Apart from that, go ahead and mix 'em as you like 'em. As for me, I'll take mine neat, thanks. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA Ok here's my 2 cents. Take the 8D gells from the engines and add them to the house bank. You could even take the group 31 from the gen set and add it to the house bank From jschroeder1@uswest.net Wed Jun 6 21:04:25 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:04:25 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Binocs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For a long time Tasco had a bad rep amoungst the shooting and astronomy crowd. I do both. Quality was terrible. About a year ago I met a Tasco rep and discussed the situation with him. He allowed that this was true, but that the management of Tasco was determined to improve the quality of their product and thus their reputation. Nuff Said. Check also Orion Telescope at www.telescope.com Jerry > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Mark Stypinski > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:53 PM > To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com > Subject: > > > Recent talk on the list regarding binoculars. For what it's worth one of > the BOAT US specials is a pair of TASCO 7 X 50 Sonoma Binoculars on sale. > > Description as follows "Fully coated optics and Rubicon > ruby-coated lenses > give you brilliant daylight viewing with minimal light reflection. Rubber > armored. Field of view: 372 degrees. Weight 27oz." > > Regular $139.95 on sale for $49.95. > > Mark Stypinski > M/V Elsea > 1974 30 Willard Vega Voyager > Pictures at: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=143449&a=1050303 > Willard Owners Web Site at: > http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7196/ > W (517) 373-9766 > H (517) 333-5915 > Cell (517)281-8003 > MTOA 1122 > http://www.geocities.com/sail1946/index.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From mknott@bcpl.net Wed Jun 6 21:47:03 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:47:03 -0400 Subject: TWL: Add more batteries or create a new battery bank? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B1EF883@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From Douglas Hoople ===== >Careful there with all that mixing and matching. With different types/ages of batteries in parallel, they're constantly feeding off each other to keep themselves at a level voltage. It'll wear 'em out quick, and you can even start a fire that way >if you're really lucky. > Shouldn't the fact that those gel cells are already 5 yrs. old be of some concern? I wonder too if part of the current shortfall in "overnight" power isn't a sign that these batteries are showing their age. Maybe one option should be to pull all those big gell cells out of service and replace with series and parallel sets of golf car batteries until you have the desired number of amp-hours. Mel Knott From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 6 21:48:13 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: Re: Multi weight oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383072145.991878493461.JavaMail.root@web313-wrb> Weighing in on the great oil weight debate. I've got a pair of DD671s, and the consensus is single-weight with a strong bias toward 40 grade, with very little tolerance for lighter-grade single weights, and a very strong set of warnings against multi-grades. It's single-weight 40 unless the temperature is low enough, at which point they way you can get away with either a 30 or a 15W40. But they're (DD, Chevron, Shell, a longtime bus operator, Tom List (Sausalito's finest diesel mechanic)) quick to say change it back when the weather's warmer (> 32F!). There's also been a DD side discussion in which Delo 400 is called into question relative to the older Delo 100 (CF-2 rated, fairly-highly evolved for its generation). I know of at least two very reputable people who say I should be putting Delo 100 40 into my Detroits. The ash content of the 100 is more favorable, and for the two-stroke DDs, that's said to make a difference. One of these two reputable folks (the longtime bus operator) also discovered that he ran through half as much Delo 100 as he did Delo 400. The story goes that when lighter grades of oil are subject to the higher-than-most-diesels stress of a DD two-stroke engine, engine wear increases. FWIW, my warm-and-sunny-California-based DD671s were run on Delo 400 single-weight 30 by the last owner (who swore that he was otherwise pretty religious about keeping the inside of his engines clean). I don't know how much can be drawn from this, but I've got a substantial compression problem that I reckon comes from engine wear. I know that there are lots of reasons why one might experience compression problems, and lots of reasons why engines wear, but this looks and smells like a smoking gun to me. I'll be running Delo 100 single-weight 40 for the better part of the foreseeable. Call me superstitious, 'cause I ain't got no science backin' me on this one. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From PRyker@Affinity.com Wed Jun 6 22:05:09 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:05:09 -0700 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B03FE1@exchange.affinityla.com> Doug, I have a 44' Trojan Motoryacht with twin DD671N's. I was intrigued by your post and wonder what oil you mean when you say "Delo 100 single-weight 40"? Forgive me for my ignorance but I have recently bought the boat and have always owned gas powered cruisers so I am not fimiliar with this brand oil. ALso, I notice that you say you have compression issues with your DD671's. My detroits fire up well with very little smoke at all. Under power at cruise there is a greyish color smoke that you can see from both exhaust ports that dissappears at approx 5' from the exhaust ports. I have not had the boat long enough to determin how much oil is used between 100 hour oil changes. The engines do run superbly. I have read somewhere that the fuel rack on a DD engine if out of adjustment can casue unburned diesel to emit greyish smoke under power. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Hoople [mailto:doughoople@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 9:48 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: RE: TWL: Re: Multi weight oil Weighing in on the great oil weight debate. I've got a pair of DD671s, and the consensus is single-weight with a strong bias toward 40 grade, with very little tolerance for lighter-grade single weights, and a very strong set of warnings against multi-grades. It's single-weight 40 unless the temperature is low enough, at which point they way you can get away with either a 30 or a 15W40. But they're (DD, Chevron, Shell, a longtime bus operator, Tom List (Sausalito's finest diesel mechanic)) quick to say change it back when the weather's warmer (> 32F!). There's also been a DD side discussion in which Delo 400 is called into question relative to the older Delo 100 (CF-2 rated, fairly-highly evolved for its generation). I know of at least two very reputable people who say I should be putting Delo 100 40 into my Detroits. The ash content of the 100 is more favorable, and for the two-stroke DDs, that's said to make a difference. One of these two reputable folks (the longtime bus operator) also discovered that he ran through half as much Delo 100 as he did Delo 400. The story goes that when lighter grades of oil are subject to the higher-than-most-diesels stress of a DD two-stroke engine, engine wear increases. FWIW, my warm-and-sunny-California-based DD671s were run on Delo 400 single-weight 30 by the last owner (who swore that he was otherwise pretty religious about keeping the inside of his engines clean). I don't know how much can be drawn from this, but I've got a substantial compression problem that I reckon comes from engine wear. I know that there are lots of reasons why one might experience compression problems, and lots of reasons why engines wear, but this looks and smells like a smoking gun to me. I'll be running Delo 100 single-weight 40 for the better part of the foreseeable. Call me superstitious, 'cause I ain't got no science backin' me on this one. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 6 22:26:50 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383448715.991880810662.JavaMail.root@web621-wrb.mail.com> Phil, Delo 100 is just the brand name of an older Chevron formulation, the brand that they replaced with Delo 400. It's a little hard to find, and I called a distributor to order it. I'm looking now for a better source, because the distributor charged me close to retail for a specialty low-volume nuisance order (2 6x1-gallon cases). "We don't see much of that going out the door these days," said the guy at the counter. Your description of starting your DD671s (nice and easy, very little smoke) is in keeping with the descriptions of other owners whose engines are in good shape. Mine (a long thread about 2 weeks ago) emit white smoke (unburned diesel) in large amounts until they reach 140F or so, and they're very hard starting. Congratulations on a good pair! If you're trailing thin gray/white vapor at power, that's probably just water steam from the wet exhaust, nothing to worry about if your temperature guages are otherwise reading normal. Mine run clean once they're up to temp. Under the single-weight Delo 400 30 that was in the engines when I got them, we went through about 6 quarts in each engine in the first 30 hours. I have no idea whether that's good or bad, but I do know that DDs suck the stuff down. I'm just now getting around to putting in the Delo 100. Thanks for writing. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 6 22:57:26 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock Message-ID: <381552530.991882648143.JavaMail.root@web312-wrb> Arild, I haven't done my radio or radar license yet, so I'm still in the dark as to emissions. Here's the problem: My powerboat is parked at a slip next to a sea wall (with a boardwalk that, on a nice day, is pretty active with tourists and passers-by). At low tide, the radome is at about eye-level with a pedestrian on the boardwalk, and about 35 feet distant. I try not to run the radar until after I leave the dock, but plenty of boats come in with their arrays spinning, and I might too if I'm a bit absent-minded that day. Is there a hazard to pedestrians at that distance? Thanks. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA But ten feet is considered very close in radar terms. From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 7 00:40:30 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 00:40:30 EDT Subject: TWL: Health Hazards of Radar and other EMF Message-ID: <20.17924b1a.28505fbe@aol.com> There are good studies that show chronic exposure to Microwave radiation (and other Electra Magnetic Frequency Radiation) have human health hazards. This is not just limited to Radar microwaves (higher frequency). There are some lab and animal studies that cell phone frequencies 800 MHz to 2 GHz also increase a risk of cancer. (we cannot tell in us old geezers if it decreases the brain cells and intellectual capacity--if any left -- after banging our brains and filling them with various liquid toxins associated with our life style). What is very clear to me is that young people should not be in the vicinity of excess radiation (including Radar) because of not only potential increase of cancer, but genetic abnormalities in sperm and ova--and fetus. Sterility might be construed as less of a catastrophe than an abnormal child or the increased incidence of cancer. Who me worry?--no too old--but my daughter and grandchildren--you bet. How about our kids who have the cell phone next to the brain many hours a day--just wait until G3! Fortunately the EMF power is decreased an exponential rate by distance from the point of radiation. Moral: don't transmit unless necessary (including cell phones)--shield when possible (my flying Bridge hard top is two layers of aluminum--with the radar and antennas about two feet above the top). Bob Austin M D. Pensacola FL Symbol 42 From Robert_Schreiber@lotus.com Thu Jun 7 03:41:34 2001 From: Robert_Schreiber@lotus.com (Robert_Schreiber@lotus.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 03:41:34 -0400 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I got my Delo 400 from West Marine. Its not in the catalog, but ask them to order it for you. I'm using Delo 400 40. A good place for DD671N Manuals is Johnson & Towers. I also found a set from "Jensales" http://www.jensales.com (Usual disclaimers) BTW: My DD671N starts right up with just a touch of the key. From jcw@rti.org Thu Jun 7 09:17:14 2001 From: jcw@rti.org (Wright, James C.) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:17:14 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Multiweight oils Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF07A4FA@rtints5.rti.org> Jim Alexander asks: > Anyone know about or has tried any of the Synthetics in diesels? Go to http://www.google.com and enter "site:samurai.com synthetic oil andrews" (without the quotes) and you should get about 88 hits of articles on synthetic oils, primarily by Wil Andrews. -jim From LRZeitlin@aol.com Thu Jun 7 09:29:03 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:29:03 EDT Subject: TWL: Re. Nordhavn fuel consumption Message-ID: <47.c3c49bc.2850db9f@aol.com> Bob Austin writes: <> Bob, If you work the numbers, you will find that the 50,000 lb Nordhavn 40 takes about 27.3 hp to travel at 6 kts and 43.6 hp to reach 7 kts. Using the accepted estimate of .06 gal/hp/hr, the Nordhavn 40 should consume at least 1.6 gal. of fuel per hr at 6 kts and 2.6 gal. per hour at 7 kts. This is more than twice the fuel consumption that Nordhavn claims. Under adverse weather conditions fuel consumption will undoubtedly increase. There is no doubt that the boat's 920 gal. fuel capacity is sufficient for individual legs on the trip but if Nordhavn's figures are to be believed than the company has found a way to make the boat sail downhill on a flat sea. I'd like to see some actual test figures by an independent agent supporting the Nordhavn 40's fuel economy (or lack thereof). Larry Zeitlin From philm@keysfamily.org Thu Jun 7 09:48:43 2001 From: philm@keysfamily.org (Phil Keys) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 06:48:43 -0700 Subject: TWL: interference with gps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010607064344.00a03290@hostess.globax.com> I recently installed a RayMarine RayNav 300 GPS. When I put the GPS antenna on an aluminum bracket inside the boat's fiberglass funnel, I was surprised to lose all signals. Took the GPS antenna off the aluminum bracket and satellite signals returned. Finally used a plywood bracket with no problems. The RayNav 300 also receives WAAS differential corrections. But not consistently. sometimes an SD fix is there, sometimes not. Haven't discerned any pattern. Phil Keys KJ7ET "Kathy K" Sundowner 30 Tug, hull #3 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 (360) 379-8650 philm@keysfamily.org From rcrogers@annapolis.net Thu Jun 7 10:36:08 2001 From: rcrogers@annapolis.net (Ron Rogers) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:36:08 -0400 Subject: TWL: Nordhavn 40 Around the World In-Reply-To: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF07A4FA@rtints5.rti.org> Message-ID: <011701c0ef5f$31212040$7d0418ce@ronthfp1w0rg6> This is the announcement from P.A.E. concerning the voyage. Note that the vessel will have both passive and active stabilizers! P.A.E. Announces The Nordhavn 40 "Around The World Voyage" Begining this November, a rotating crew from P.A.E., the developers and builders of the Nordhavn line of oceangoing power vessels, will leave Dana Point, California on a Nordhavn 40 for a 26,000-mile, 26-week Around The World Voyage. The purpose of the voyage is for the P.A.E. staff to evaluate firsthand the offshore performance of this unique vessel and its auxiliary equipment. Throughout the voyage, P.A.E. will be rotating the crew, giving a number of its staff members a chance to experience this offshore adventure. This "stock" boat will incorporate the same construction details and features as a standard production model. Of particular interest on this voyage will be its Lugger engine and Raymarine electronics and navigation software package. As many long-distance cruisers know, several Nordhavns have safely taken their owners across oceans and, in some cases, around the world. P.A.E. has decided to take its smallest full-displacement model on this adventurous trip. It wants trawler enthusiasts to know that they can realize their biggest dream even with modest resources. This summer, the Nordhavn 40 will be making a series of shakedown cruises up and down the West Coast from California to Alaska, stopping in Seattle in September, to be featured in the Seattle Boat Show on Lake Union. It will return to its homeport of Dana Point at the end of September, where it will be readied for its historic voyage. The circumnavigation route was chosen for the best weather conditions for this time of the year. The boat has a range of well over 4,000 nautical miles at its most efficient cruising speed of between 6 and 7 knots. Powered by a Lugger six-cylinder diesel engine and equipped with a Yanmar emergency "wing" engine, the Nordhavn 40 is a highly dependable passagemaker. It is equipped with passive, paravane stabilizers, or "flopper stoppers," as well as Naiad electronically controlled stabilizers. "This is one of the most seaworthy boats we have ever built, and we're just as comfortable taking this trip in this model as we would be in one of our larger models," comments Jim Leishman of P.A.E. "We want our customers to know that they really can take these boats anywhere in the world." Thanks to the special participation of Raymarine, the Nordhavn crew will be able to post regular updates of the vessel's progress from sea on the Nordhavn and Raymarine websites (www.nordhavn.com and www.raymarine.com). Upon its return to Dana Point next spring, the boat will be prepared for an overland journey to the East Coast, where it will be featured in a number of fall boat shows including Newport, Annapolis and Ft.Lauderdale From alexh@olypen.com Thu Jun 7 12:10:17 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:10:17 -0700 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil Message-ID: <010501c0ef6c$583ef000$dff9c8d0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Hoople" > > I'll be running Delo 100 single-weight 40 for the better part of the foreseeable. Call me superstitious, 'cause I ain't got no science backin' me on this one. > Hi Doug, Ah, but you do have science on your side here. Detroit Diesel 2-strokes are prone to exhaust port deposits if the motor oil used has too high a sulphated ash level. The preferred level is somewhere between 0.4% and 0.7% and DD virtually demands that the ash level be below 1%. Delo 100 is Chevron's primary recommended product for DD 2-strokes. FWIW: Delo 400 single grade is below the 1% threshold so it's OK for use as well and there are a lot of DD 8v92 and 12v92 2-strokes out there using 15w40 as well. Any true oil distributor (jobber) should have plenty of "Detroit Oil" on hand at all times. Granted, sales of this type of oil have been slipping for some time but it's still in the top 20 or 25 sellers. If the Chevron guy insists on gouging you be aware that every other major brand makes a "Detroit Oil" so the decision can be made on price and convenience. Scientifically yours, Alex From alexh@olypen.com Thu Jun 7 12:26:13 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:26:13 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Blue Smoke In-Reply-To: <008301c0eec1$77347800$39fa103f@tinyus> Message-ID: <012501c0ef6e$944eb100$dff9c8d0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Clark" > > So, Alex H, what's the bluish smoke at idle? All other engine indications > seem to be normal, so I haven't been too worried about it, but am curious > none-the-less. Could it be the 30W oil "bright stock" residue on the > cylinder walls? Hi Andy, Blue smoke is oil smoke. So the question is where is it coming from and why only at idle? I'm guessing here but this seems to fit the facts. Your rings are leaving a tiny bit of excess oil on the cylinder walls. At idle your fuel mixture is extremely lean (I've heard figures as lean as 200:1) and the cylinder temp is comparatively low so you're more likely to see evidence of a bit of oil burning. Conversely, at cruising speeds/loads your fuel mixture is far richer and cylinder temps are higher either of which could mask a small amount of oil burning. Whether the polymer in multigrade vs. bright stock in single grade would make any difference, I don't have a clue. Cluelessly yours, Alex From flyjbaker624@aol.com Thu Jun 7 12:36:39 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:36:39 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you camped out with your radar on right next to your head continuously, there may be some chance of harm. I do not think that boat radars are strong enough to cause concern.....especially to passers by at 35ft or more. You are probably getting more EMF than they are. I wouldn't worry. Trawler on, John From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Thu Jun 7 13:12:45 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010607171245.26391.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Since I recently worked on my radar and was told by sitex, I should visit the emergency room, Ill add my 2 cents. Apparently, radar at eye level is real bad. it can cause cataracs or otherwise damage your eyes. Brain level seems like not a good thing either. I did start to get a headache after futzing around with the unit, several different times. I attributed it to stress, but realized that it was due to getting nuked. Nasty headache to. I wasnt quite camped out but it was whirring and moving while I was poking and proding. Someone put it into perspective for me (if you are close) "Its like sticking your head in a microwave." Not something I really want to do. I should add I dont recall who or where I heard this so cant vouch for this. Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" - resplashing this afternoon --- flyjbaker624@aol.com wrote: > If you camped out with your radar on right next > to your head > continuously, there may be some chance of harm. I > do not think that boat > radars are strong enough to cause > concern.....especially to passers by at > 35ft or more. You are probably getting more EMF > than they are. I wouldn't > worry. > > Trawler on, > John ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Awgertoo@aol.com Thu Jun 7 13:26:28 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:26:28 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/7/01 1:13:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adventuresoul@yahoo.com writes: << Apparently, radar at eye level is real bad. it can cause cataracs or otherwise damage your eyes. Brain level seems like not a good thing either. >> Evertime I see a vessel with the radar mounted on the forward face of the flybridge--immmediately in front of and at gonad/ovary level of the vesel's occupants I silently hope that they have already had their children.... Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From flyjbaker624@aol.com Thu Jun 7 13:41:15 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:41:15 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <95.bb50299.285116bb@aol.com> In a message dated 6/7/2001 12:27:33 PM Central Daylight Time, Awgertoo@aol.com writes: << Evertime I see a vessel with the radar mounted on the forward face of the flybridge--immmediately in front of and at gonad/ovary level of the vesel's occupants I silently hope that they have already had their children.... >> This is also a very poor place to put a radar from a performance perspective as well. From david@kennett.net Thu Jun 7 13:57:27 2001 From: david@kennett.net (David A. Stahl) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:57:27 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <95.bb50299.285116bb@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010607135727.00a09a40@keywest.kennett.net> ><< Evertime I see a vessel with the radar mounted on the forward face of the > flybridge--immmediately in front of and at gonad/ovary level of the vesel's > occupants I silently hope that they have already had their children.... > >> >This is also a very poor place to put a radar from a performance perspective >as well. > My dad told us the story of how he used to heat up soup and their lunches by putting them on a wooden pole and holding them up in front of the radar units in WW2. Someone (not my dad) came back from the war and put a radar generator magnitron into a steel box so the waves would bounce around nicely and made the first microwave. Its the same radiation. The microwave on skooch is 1200 watts the radar is 4000 watts. Make sure your not in its path, the beam angles down as much as 20 degrees from the antenna. I like the aluminium tubbing crisscrossed over my head fromthe hard top, or better yet the aluminium sheets in Bob Austin's hardtop. Skooch - Hatteras 42 LRC David Stahl ************************************************************** Kennett Internet Services, 112 S. Union Street, Kennett Square, PA 19348 610-444-9008 Visit our web site at http://www.kennett.net From flyjbaker624@aol.com Thu Jun 7 13:58:37 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:58:37 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4c.166e4201.28511acd@aol.com> Alright, I am gonna backpedal a little bit. I have the utmost respect for EM radiation. Working around Aircraft radars that are powerful enough to do some immediate harm I have learned to respect them. I would not go near even a boat radar that is on. I am paranoid that way. I was at a boat show once where the array began spinning and the salesman started laughing at me because I hit the deck. I personally don't have one on my boat and would be nervous if it were spinning behind my head. With that said, I thought that the original thread was whether it was harmful to passers by at a range of 35ft.....I personally don't think so. And that is an ignorant opinion since EM radiation is not my expertise. I would also be willing to bet that the occupants of the boat are gettin' it worse than the passersby due to their proximity. Trawler on, John From skurowski@home.com Thu Jun 7 13:59:12 2001 From: skurowski@home.com (Stan Kurowski) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:59:12 -0700 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <20010607171245.26391.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If memory serves me, the first microwaves were by Amana and they called them a "RADAR Range". Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA >SNIP > Someone put it into perspective for me (if you are > close) "Its like sticking your head in a microwave." > Not something I really want to do. I should add I dont > recall who or where I heard this so cant vouch for > this. > SNIP From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 13:59:27 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:59:27 -0400 Subject: TWL: WAYPOINT+ Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010607135927.007b4160@earthlink.net> Is anyone familiar with the program Waypoint+ ????????????I need help........ . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From doughoople@earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 15:40:46 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383248844.991942847937.JavaMail.root@web313-wrb> Alex, Thanks for the science. I've done a quick check for the "Detroit Oil" for some of the other bigs, and included their ash numbers: Chevron Delo 100 40 0.76% Exxon XD-3 40 0.9% Mobil Delvac 1200D 40 0.79% Shell Rotella DD 40 0.8% Chevron Delo 400 40, by comparison, has an ash count of .96%. Interestingly enough, Exxon claims that its TBN to ash ratio does something to soften the effect of a high ash count (by Detroit standards), "The ability to provide relatively high TBN at a low ash level is unique to the magnesium-base detergent chemistry of XD-3". That comes from: http://www.exxon.com/exxon_lubes/tigerbytes/documents/productdatasheets/pds100.htm The XD-3 TBN is 9.2, and most of the other TBNs range from 6.5 to 8.2. Delo 100 has a TBN of 7.0. What does all this gobbledygook mean? Detroit Diesel 2-strokes are prone to exhaust port deposits if the motor oil used has too high a sulphated ash level. The preferred level is somewhere between 0.4% and 0.7% and DD virtually demands that the ash level be below 1%. Thanks, Alex(!) Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From mknott@bcpl.net Thu Jun 7 15:57:16 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:57:16 -0400 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B1FAF4F@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From Douglas Hoople ===== >Interestingly enough, Exxon claims that its TBN to ash ratio does something to soften the effect of a high ash count (by Detroit standards), "The ability to provide relatively high TBN at a low ash level is unique to the magnesium-base detergent >chemistry of XD-3". > >That comes from: >http://www.exxon.com/exxon_lubes/tigerbytes/documents/productdatasheets/pds10 0.htm > >The XD-3 TBN is 9.2, and most of the other TBNs range from 6.5 to 8.2. Delo 100 has a TBN of 7.0. > >What does all this gobbledygook mean? > Doug, I'm certain (and hopeful) that Alex will give a more complete answer, but FWIW, my understanding of TBN is that it's the ability to buffer the sulfuric and (also, I think) nitric acids generated by the combustion of diesel oil. This is obviously very important to protect the internal surfaces of our engines, especially with the high-sulfur fuels produced in North America. I've seen TBN specs on some of the new synthetic oils being developed for diesel service as high as 11 to 12. Regards, Mel Knott From PRyker@Affinity.com Thu Jun 7 16:04:47 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:04:47 -0700 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B04001@exchange.affinityla.com> So, for me being a newbie to Diesel motor oil what would be the best choice for DD671N's with 1600 hours SMOH. I do not know what the previous owner was using. Phil -----Original Message----- From: mknott [mailto:mknott@bcpl.net] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 3:57 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com; Douglas Hoople Subject: RE: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil >===== Original Message From Douglas Hoople ===== >Interestingly enough, Exxon claims that its TBN to ash ratio does something to soften the effect of a high ash count (by Detroit standards), "The ability to provide relatively high TBN at a low ash level is unique to the magnesium-base detergent >chemistry of XD-3". > >That comes from: >http://www.exxon.com/exxon_lubes/tigerbytes/documents/productdatasheets/pds 10 0.htm > >The XD-3 TBN is 9.2, and most of the other TBNs range from 6.5 to 8.2. Delo 100 has a TBN of 7.0. > >What does all this gobbledygook mean? > Doug, I'm certain (and hopeful) that Alex will give a more complete answer, but FWIW, my understanding of TBN is that it's the ability to buffer the sulfuric and (also, I think) nitric acids generated by the combustion of diesel oil. This is obviously very important to protect the internal surfaces of our engines, especially with the high-sulfur fuels produced in North America. I've seen TBN specs on some of the new synthetic oils being developed for diesel service as high as 11 to 12. Regards, Mel Knott From doughoople@earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 16:28:03 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <384062132.991945685111.JavaMail.root@web624-wrb.mail.com> John, I thought that the original thread was whether it was harmful to passers by at a range of 35ft.....I personally don't think so. I would also be willing to bet that the occupants of the boat are gettin' it worse than the passersby due to their proximity. Hard to say, but we don't have a flying bridge. The radar array is mounted on the pilothouse roof directly overhead of the helm, probably 6-8 feet above head height, with the roof (plywood and fiberglass) in between. Passengers at the back of the back deck MIGHT get some of the 20% pattern, and passengers on the bow (25 feet ahead) are almost certainly exposed. Mostly our passengers are not circulating in these areas while underway. But in the pilothouse, I'm assuming that there's little or no radiation at all. Glad to hear that our passers-by won't be blinded when I forget to turn the radar off before docking. Also glad to hear that I won't be blinded when my neighbors forget. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From fburrows@mail.com Thu Jun 7 16:34:23 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:34:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607162026.01ec9870@pop.site1.csi.com> Although I am not an expert on radiation I have followed lots of previous threads on this subject on lots of boating forums. I have personal interest since my radar is currently mounted to the front of the flybridge for lack of a better place. After the experts weigh in the answer is always that the greatest danger of radar is that if you get your head too close to an open array that is in operation you could be hit in the head. My Furuno has a feature that blocks the transmission when the scanner sends a signal towards the rear of the boat to prevent any perceived problems. I have never heard of one case of any injuries caused by marine radar other than the one described above. I understand the concern but it is sort of like a nuclear energy powerplant, lots of potential but in reality pretty safe. Frank Burrows 1979 43' Viking MY Piney Narrows Marina Chesapeake Bay ><< Apparently, radar at eye level is real bad. it can > cause cataracs or otherwise damage your eyes. Brain > level seems like not a good thing either. > >> >Evertime I see a vessel with the radar mounted on the forward face of the >flybridge--immmediately in front of and at gonad/ovary level of the vesel's >occupants I silently hope that they have already had their children.... From doughoople@earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 16:51:53 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <382517903.991947113604.JavaMail.root@web421-wrb> Phil, I'm still scratching my head and asking questions, so I'm probably not the one to say. I'll re-list the "Detroit Oils" that I've found and their ash levels. Chevron Delo 100 40 0.76% Exxon XD-3 40 0.9% Mobil Delvac 1200D 40 0.79% Shell Rotella DD 40 0.8% I think it's probably splitting hairs to way which is best, although my gut says that the Exxon should probably not be chosen until you can get a better explanation of the TBN/ash balance, at which point it may turn out to be a good choice after all. The list is not exhaustive, nor are other oils (Delo 400, for example) unsuitable. It seems that Detroits ARE different, though, and that straying from the straight and narrow should be done with care and knowledge. "Modern" is not necessarily better for Detroits, as seems to be the case with conventional diesels. I'll be very interested in seeing what Alex has to say about the TBN/ash balance. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From rossflem@serv.net Thu Jun 7 17:24:09 2001 From: rossflem@serv.net (Ross Fleming) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:24:09 -0700 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: <3B1FAF4F@webmail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <4qrvht4319m691nemvj9gotlomd3qdbfeh@4ax.com> On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:57:16 -0400, mknott wrote: >I'm certain (and hopeful) that Alex will give a more complete answer, but >FWIW, my understanding of TBN is that it's the ability to buffer the sulfuric >and (also, I think) nitric acids generated by the combustion of diesel oil. Don't forget that the diesel sold as High Sulfur in the US is considered Low Sulfur in most of the rest of the world because of the requirements imposed by US environmental regulators. It has been a year since my diesel class so I can't quote exact percentages. If you bunker outside of the US or Canada and possibly Western Europe you will be likely to get even higher sulfur diesel. Thus some oils will have sufficient additives to protect engines in the US but be inadequate when used elsewhere. An other thing to think about when you travel. ---------------------------------------- Ross Fleming rossflem@serv.net S/V Renown Gulfstar 39 Seattle, Washington From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 7 17:27:56 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:27:56 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <105.47ecb76.28514bdc@aol.com> I don't mean this to sound like a flame, but it is a real health concern: I would hope that those who choose to fry their own and perhaps spouses gonads, brains and eyes, would have the respect to make sure that no people of child bearing age come in close proximity of a radar beam. Since there are rather simple microwave detectors, it might behoove those who have radar where the point of radiation might be close to other people to measure the amount of radiation. Yes, pulse duration is short, but energy near the source is high and is potentially dangerous. For example the eye lens and probably the reproductive organs have a cumulative effect of microwave energy. Bob Austin M D Regards. Bob Austin From Awgertoo@aol.com Thu Jun 7 17:25:07 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:25:07 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7a.16069bc6.28514b33@aol.com> In a message dated 6/7/01 4:41:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fburrows@mail.com writes: << blocks the transmission when the scanner sends a signal towards the rear of the boat >> Frank-- You mean to say that there is a blind spot on the display for the area behind the boat? How many degrees? Michael If so, From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Thu Jun 7 17:18:39 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:18:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607162026.01ec9870@pop.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010607164834.00a4f7f0@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> At 04:34 PM 6/7/01 -0400, Frank Burrows wrote: >.... I have never heard of one case of any injuries caused by marine radar >other than the one described above. I understand the concern but it is >sort of like a nuclear energy powerplant, lots of potential but in reality >pretty safe.... --------------------- My understanding is that in the 1940-50s the Soviet Navy had a much lower radar exposure standard than the U.S. Navy. We sort of assumed the Soviets didn't know what they were doing, but it turned out that U.S. sailors working with the equipment had higher rates of cataracts than the general population. As a result the U.S. exposure standard was reduced substantially. Spectrum had an article about this many years ago. People have been injured by marine radar. They just don't suddenly drop over dead smoking like a microwaved turkey, but rather develop cataracts 20 years later which is more difficult to detect. Type approved equipment (like radar) is typically approved for sale on the basis that it will be safe when installed and used as recommended by the manufacturer. This means that it's probably safe if: 1) Someone actually read the manual when installing it. Personally, I'd want to read the manual to double check that myself before accepting that it was done properly by an "expert" hired to do it. What's safe with one manufacturer's unit may not be considered safe by another manufacturer with a different design or power level or whatever. Or your installer may consider himself so experienced he doesn't bother to RTFM for each and every unit. 2) The radar is actually working properly. It was built properly and hasn't had some failure in the mean time. Lest you think this is a hypothetical, bear in mind that one person on TWL has a radar from the factory that apparently radiates on VHF 73 -- plainly a defect from the factory that they don't seem too interested in repairing. Was some sheet metal shielding cover under the plastic dome misaligned when assembled for example, causing radiation in some direction not expected? Well, it's not supposed to be, but..... I don't know what the answer is to this issue. We obviously want to be able to buy some box and install it and make the reasonable assumption that it won't hurt you. Basically though, we're trusting the manufacturer to have built the thing properly. A good assumption? Probably. 100%? I doubt it. How paranoid should we be about it? Don't know -- it's each individual's decision. Bill From dwilson@ysa.attmil.ne.jp Thu Jun 7 18:29:00 2001 From: dwilson@ysa.attmil.ne.jp (Don Wilson) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:29:00 +0900 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, Since there seems to be a lot of concern about radiation from our radar sets there is a relatively easy answer available. For those in the US look in the yellow pages for Industrial Hygiene. Find one near you and have him or her come and measure the EMF from your set. At the helm, on deck, etc.. I don't have my manuals with me so can't state the standards for exposure, but any competent IH should be able to. By the way, I work as an IH tech which means I get to take the measurements for a lot of workplace hazards and the IH interprates them and determines if the worker is over exposed or not. Don Wilson MV "GAIJIN" Diesel Duck 44 (Under construction) http://www._gaijin.homestead.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Stan Kurowski Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:59 AM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: RE: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock If memory serves me, the first microwaves were by Amana and they called them a "RADAR Range". Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA >SNIP > Someone put it into perspective for me (if you are > close) "Its like sticking your head in a microwave." > Not something I really want to do. I should add I dont > recall who or where I heard this so cant vouch for > this. > SNIP From e16@telus.net Thu Jun 7 18:25:08 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:25:08 -0700 Subject: TWL: Detecting/Measuring Radar Emissions Message-ID: I recall being told a long time ago that one test for a leaking microwave door seal is to simply pass an ordinary fluorescent tube around the edges while the machine is working. If any light is present, the seals are bad. Never tried it, however. Would something that simple work in a radar beam? When I was on a destroyer last year I was told that its main array is so powerful that it kills birds that get too close. Being gull-ible (sorry) I never questioned the statement, but even if it was an exaggeration, the message is clear. My radar array is mounted on an arch at the back of the fly bridge, and is about 3 feet above our heads when we're standing. I'm going to take some measurements and do the geometry for the 20% dispersion factor to see if we're being zapped. People today are also worried about living too close to power lines or cell towers for the same reason, and while the evidence is being argued, there are indications of heightened levels of certain illnesses. As far as I'm concerned, the only safe level for electronic emissions is zero, but since that is impossible in our "tech world", taking measures to avoid whatever you can control is only sensible. And yes, I have a cell phone and often forget to use the ear-piece. Cheers, Garrett From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 18:34:08 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:34:08 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010607164834.00a4f7f0@pop-server.tampabay.rr.c om> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010607183408.007b54e0@earthlink.net> At 05:18 PM 6/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >At 04:34 PM 6/7/01 -0400, Frank Burrows wrote: > >>.... I have never heard of one case of any injuries caused by marine radar >>other than the one described above. I understand the concern but it is >>sort of like a nuclear energy powerplant, lots of potential but in reality >>pretty safe.... =============================================================== Think what you want Bill, I sold installed and serviced Radar for many years and have had both lenses in my eyes replaced. Today I am hyper about being in front of the radars angle of sweep, but thats me....... On my boat the radar is mounted right overhead,safest place to be. I see many boats with radar arches at the rear of the flybridge putting those on the bridge in harms way. . . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From fburrows@mail.com Thu Jun 7 18:56:37 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:56:37 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <7a.16069bc6.28514b33@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607184918.01ed4c60@pop.site1.csi.com> Michael If you mount the scanner in front of a flybridge the radar is blind behind you. I have a model 1932 Furuno 48 mile radar. If you access the installation menu there is a feature that turns off the scanner on every revolution to prevent emissions if the scanner is in front of a flybridge or mast. The number of degrees is user adjustable. When this feature is activated the area selected is blank on the screen. So my screen looks like a pie with about three slices missing from the bottom. Frank ><< blocks the transmission when the scanner sends > a signal towards the rear of the boat >> > >Frank-- > >You mean to say that there is a blind spot on the display for the area behind >the boat? How many degrees? > >Michael >If so, From adagio@our.net.au Thu Jun 7 19:42:30 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:42:30 +1000 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <105.47ecb76.28514bdc@aol.com> Message-ID: on 6/8/01 7:27, Thataway@aol.com at Thataway@aol.com wrote: > I don't mean this to sound like a flame, but it is a real health concern: Hi Bob, I was concerned about the radiation when designing Adagio's installation. Below is an email from Furuno USA June 1988. Our radar is 6kW, 64nm Furuno 1932 with 50" open array antenna. That's why Michael refers to getting hit on the head :-) Hope he is correct! I don't have IEC 936, but I did find ANSI/IEEE C95.1-1992 "Standard for safety levels with respect to human exposure to radio frequency electromagnetic fields, 3kHz to 300gHz" which agrees with Kellner's stated spec. Steve Darden s/v Adagio GPO 2046 Hobart, TAS 7001 Australia 0415/782-305 http://www.adagiomarine.com Date: 06/16 11:40 PM From: Michael Kellner, MikeKellner@compuserve.com Dear Stephen You can either use the sector blanking feature of the radar's software and set it up for on/off use by means of a function key. According to IEC 936 paragraph 4, an Average RF Energy Power Density below 10 Watts/Square Meter is considered to be safe to humans. This especially important for Human Eyes. The 1942 Radar has an Average RF Energy Power Density of 10 Watts/Square Meter at about .5 Meters or 1.7 feet from the Antenna. This means that you would get hit in the head with the scanner before you have the opportunity to hurt your eyes. At 8 Meters from the antenna, the power density is 1 Watt/Square Meter which is 1/10th of what it is at .5 meters. Also, at the angular limit of the beamwidth specifications (-3dB Point), the power density or field intensity is only half of the numbers above which represent the center of the beam. Don't get hit in the head with the scanner. Respectfully, Michael Kellner FURUNO USA Inc. From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 21:34:33 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 21:34:33 -0400 Subject: TWL: Frank Timpano Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010607213433.007bacf0@earthlink.net> Frank Timpano---------Your mail is being bounced back, e/mail me again . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From mikey@efni.com Thu Jun 7 21:50:45 2001 From: mikey@efni.com (Mike & Kym Eedy) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 21:50:45 EDT Subject: TWL: Detecting/Measuring Radar Emissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Garrett, <> Assuming that you are talking about HCMS Huron or Algonquin, during my time about the Iroquois class destroyers it was normal practice to have to sweep dead birds off the bridge after firing exercises. Of course that involved the STIR Continuous Wave (CW) fire control radars. That's a whole different power level and antenna scan ie constant illumination. Sincerely your temporarily misemployed Canadian Air Force Aerospace Controller. Mike Eedy M/V Excalibur North Bay ON Mikey@efni.com From mhknott@home.com Thu Jun 7 22:22:01 2001 From: mhknott@home.com (Mel Knott) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:22:01 -0400 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: <4qrvht4319m691nemvj9gotlomd3qdbfeh@4ax.com> Message-ID: <004d01c0efc1$cfccb580$44bc0941@owml1.md.home.com> On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:57:16 -0400, mknott wrote: >I'm certain (and hopeful) that Alex will give a more complete answer, but >FWIW, my understanding of TBN is that it's the ability to buffer the sulfuric >and (also, I think) nitric acids generated by the combustion of diesel oil. Don't forget that the diesel sold as High Sulfur in the US is considered Low Sulfur in most of the rest of the world because of the requirements imposed by US environmental regulators. Hi Ross, Yes, it's true that the sulfur content has been reduced somewhat in N. America. It's currently about 500 mg/l. But that's still very high compared to the diesel fuel available in Europe. European diesel fuel is referred to as ultra low sulfur diesel (ULSD) and the concentration runs about 15-30 mg/l. Also, Europe uses a lot of biodiesel - mostly produced from rapeseed. The new diesel technology cars in Europe are taking full advantage of ULSD with extremely good fuel economy and low emissions. The Europeans are WAY ahead of us in diesel technology and fuels. Currently, about 40% of the vehicles throughout Europe are diesel-powered. Now, when the new U.S. low sulfur EPA regs take effect around 2005, we too will have ULSD. Then we can take full advantage of the new high-tech diesel motor technology and have diesel cars that produce less emissions than gasoline powered cars. ;-) It has been a year since my diesel class so I can't quote exact percentages. If you bunker outside of the US or Canada and possibly Western Europe you will be likely to get even higher sulfur diesel. Thus some oils will have sufficient additives to protect engines in the US but be inadequate when used elsewhere. An other thing to think about when you travel. So, you see. It's actually just the opposite. Regards, Mel Knott From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 7 23:07:43 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:07:43 -0400 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: <004d01c0efc1$cfccb580$44bc0941@owml1.md.home.com> Message-ID: <002d01c0efc8$3251e760$d9ee4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Also, Europe uses a lot of biodiesel - mostly produced > from rapeseed Hi Mel , Fields of this stuff are growing all over the place in the UK - especially in marginal or otherwise unproductive fields - I never associated it as source for bio diesel - duh! Do you have any idea what the percentage of the mix might be ?? I tried the bio diesel sold in Solomon's a few years ago - and hyped as processed from Soy . The engine ran fine with it - and exhaust smelled like French fries - - Turned out the co was reprocessing used cooking oil from restaurant deep fryers that they collected mostly in Fla . - no wonder exhaust smelled like French Fries !! Ken From fburrows@mail.com Thu Jun 7 23:12:43 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:12:43 -0400 Subject: TWL: Detecting/Measuring Radar Emissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607230803.024e5ec0@pop.site1.csi.com> In the interest of providing more than antidotal information, I offer the following links: http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/200003/01/0301148.htm http://www.arpansa.gov.au/is_marin.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/dis5.htm#5 Frank At 03:25 PM 6/7/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >I recall being told a long time ago that one test for a leaking microwave >door seal is to simply pass an ordinary fluorescent tube around the edges >while the machine is working. If any light is present, the seals are bad. >Never tried it, however. Would something that simple work in a radar beam? > >When I was on a destroyer last year I was told that its main array is so >powerful that it kills birds that get too close. Being gull-ible (sorry) I >never questioned the statement, but even if it was an exaggeration, the >message is clear. My radar array is mounted on an arch at the back of the >fly bridge, and is about 3 feet above our heads when we're standing. I'm >going to take some measurements and do the geometry for the 20% dispersion >factor to see if we're being zapped. > >People today are also worried about living too close to power lines or cell >towers for the same reason, and while the evidence is being argued, there >are indications of heightened levels of certain illnesses. As far as I'm >concerned, the only safe level for electronic emissions is zero, but since >that is impossible in our "tech world", taking measures to avoid whatever >you can control is only sensible. And yes, I have a cell phone and often >forget to use the ear-piece. > >Cheers, Garrett From jschroeder1@uswest.net Thu Jun 7 23:58:05 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 20:58:05 -0700 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: <002d01c0efc8$3251e760$d9ee4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Message-ID: I ran 20% soy oil for a few tanks full. My subjective opine was that the engine ran smoother. But at $5 bucks a gallon, I didn't think it worth it. I also noticed particulate matter floating in the stuff which bothered me. Jerry Schroeder M/V Surprise 21' R21 Ballard, WA > > Do you have any idea what the percentage of the mix might be ?? > > I tried the bio diesel sold in Solomon's a few years ago - and hyped > as processed from Soy . The engine ran fine with it - and exhaust smelled > like French fries - - Turned out the co was reprocessing used cooking oil > from restaurant deep fryers that they collected mostly in Fla . - > no wonder > exhaust smelled like French Fries !! > > Ken > > From jcj@chattanooga.net Fri Jun 8 00:37:30 2001 From: jcj@chattanooga.net (Courtenay James) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 00:37:30 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re. Nordhavn fuel consumptionIf you work the numbers, you will find that the 50,000 lb Nordhavn 40 takes about 27.3 hp to travel at 6 kts and 43.6 hp to reach 7 kts. Using the accepted estimate of .06 gal/hp/hr, the Nordhavn 40 should consume at lea Message-ID: <3B205686.2B178DC2@chattanooga.net> Larry Zeitlin writes: If you work the numbers, you will find that the 50,000 lb Nordhavn 40 takes about 27.3 hp to travel at 6 kts and 43.6 hp to reach 7 kts. Using the accepted estimate of .06 gal/hp/hr, the Nordhavn 40 should consume at least 1.6 gal. of fuel per hr at 6 kts and 2.6 gal. per hour at 7 kts. Larry, My Fisher 46, 50,000 lb. displacement, crossed the gulf under power at 7.5 knots in rough seas averaging a little over 1.5 gal. per hour. But that included running my 8.5 kw generator the entire time. Power was American Diesel 140 hp. I don't think I can manage to burn 2.6 gallons per hour. The numbers don't seem out of line to me either, but the proof is in the asking of a Nordhaven owner. Don't we have one out there? By the way, where did the .06 gal/hp/hr figure come from? Courtenay James BLUE SHAMU, Fisher 46 Motorsailer, Chattanooga, TN From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Fri Jun 8 01:44:13 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 01:44:13 -0400 Subject: TWL: Detecting/Measuring Radar Emissions In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607230803.024e5ec0@pop.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010608011738.00a30040@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> At 11:12 PM 6/7/01 -0400, Frank Burrows wrote: >In the interest of providing more than antidotal information, I offer the >following links: > >http://www.arpansa.gov.au/is_marin.htm ----------------- These are good links Frank -- thanks for finding them. They're particularly of interest to me since I'm trying to convince myself to install radar sometime in the next few months. As I read the fifth paragraph of the Australian link, if your antenna is mounted 5 feet behind you (1.5m) and 20" above you it can still deliver levels of radiation exceeding the health limit to people on the fly bridge. Such a mounting isn't all that unusual in trawlers with a low radar arch behind the helmsman (like mine). Sounds like with such a boat one should be sure to mount the radar substantially higher than the arch itself -- not just slightly above it like you frequently see done. This goes back to the issue of whether the guy installing your radar really knows what he's doing or not.... It is possible for your radar to be a hazard to your health if improperly installed. Bill From pkoch@dtex.com Fri Jun 8 08:11:12 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:11:12 -0400 Subject: TWL: interference with gps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My interference problem is also with the RayNav 300, I have moved the GPS antenna to where I am confident that it is out of the path of the radar beam and still had the problem. I then started to move the display around and found that depending on where the display was located the problem would remain or go away. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Phil Keys [mailto:philm@keysfamily.org] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 9:49 AM To: Trawler World mailing list Subject: RE: TWL: interference with gps I recently installed a RayMarine RayNav 300 GPS. When I put the GPS antenna on an aluminum bracket inside the boat's fiberglass funnel, I was surprised to lose all signals. Took the GPS antenna off the aluminum bracket and satellite signals returned. Finally used a plywood bracket with no problems. The RayNav 300 also receives WAAS differential corrections. But not consistently. sometimes an SD fix is there, sometimes not. Haven't discerned any pattern. Phil Keys KJ7ET "Kathy K" Sundowner 30 Tug, hull #3 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 (360) 379-8650 philm@keysfamily.org From georgs@trawlerworld.com Thu Jun 7 07:51:16 2001 From: georgs@trawlerworld.com (Georgs Kolesnikovs) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:51:16 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Larry, Bob and others--. As circumnavigations in trawlers are still rare, regardless of motivation, I plan to feature the entire trip around at trawlerworld.com. In fact, I've signed on as crew for the first leg of the circumnavigation, from Dana Point to Honolulu right after Trawler Fest Long Beach in November. The circumnavigation was not conceived as a leisurely sightseeing tour but rather a test of the newest and smallest model in the Nordhavn offshore series. Principals and employees of PAE will skipper the boat. Journalists and other guests will serve as crew. The production 40 for the exercise is on display this week at Trawler Fest Poulsbo. It will spend the summer in Southeast Alaska. Incidentally, there is one beauty of a Nordhavn 62 on show here too, commissioned 14 days ago in Dana Point and run up the coast without fuss. --Georgs, this week in Poulsbo, Washington From mknott@bcpl.net Fri Jun 8 08:52:22 2001 From: mknott@bcpl.net (mknott) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:52:22 -0400 Subject: TWL: DD671's and Engine Oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B20477B@webmail.bcpl.net> >===== Original Message From "M. Kenneth McQuage" ===== >Also, Europe uses a lot of biodiesel - mostly produced >> from rapeseed > > Hi Mel , > Fields of this stuff are growing all over the place in the UK - >especially in marginal or otherwise unproductive fields - I never associated >it as source for bio diesel - duh! > > Do you have any idea what the percentage of the mix might be ?? > Hi, Ken. I honestly don't know but I can find out. I do personally know a guy in Berlin, MD that has a 500 gal. tank that he keeps filled with biodiesel. He has a Co. out of Philly fill it for him and he uses it 100% in his VW TDI. He has it in writing from VWOA that it's ok to use it straight. He's paying about $2.50/gal for it but, like me he gets 50+ mpg and he feels like he's doing his part for renewable resource. > I tried the bio diesel sold in Solomon's a few years ago - and hyped >as processed from Soy . The engine ran fine with it - and exhaust smelled >like French fries - - Turned out the co was reprocessing used cooking oil >from restaurant deep fryers that they collected mostly in Fla . - no wonder >exhaust smelled like French Fries !! > You can make diesel fuel out of any veg. oil. It's a great idea to reprocess deep fryer oil. I've also been told that biodiesel has better lubricity properties than dino diesel. I think we're gradually going to see more biodiesel becoming more accessible on the market to the individual consumer. Some metropolitan bus fleets are already buying it in bulk and trying it out. It'll also be needed just to help supplement our overall diesel fuel supplies as more and more diesel fuel gets used for backup and off-the-grid electricity generation. From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Fri Jun 8 08:59:35 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 08:59:35 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010608085109.00a898b0@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> At 07:51 AM 6/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >The circumnavigation was not conceived as a leisurely sightseeing tour but >rather a test of the newest and smallest model in the Nordhavn offshore >series. Principals and employees of PAE will skipper the boat. Journalists >and other guests will serve as crew. I presume you've read the press release from their web site. This trip seems like a masterful marketing stroke for them (assuming all goes well of course). I'm curious about one line down near the bottom of the release though. As I understand it they plan to drive the boat all the way around the world on its own bottom, and then when it gets back to California put it on a truck to send to east coast boat shows. This would seem a little anticlimactic and less than a masterful PR stroke to truck it rather than sailing it. Would they be shipping it overland because that's cheaper than hiring a delivery? Or they believe it will arrive in better condition for the shows that way? Or something else altogether? Just curious about marketing.... Bill From rcrogers@annapolis.net Fri Jun 8 09:29:21 2001 From: rcrogers@annapolis.net (Ron Rogers) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:29:21 -0400 Subject: TWL: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems In-Reply-To: <3B20477B@webmail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <00fa01c0f01f$072595d0$820418ce@ronthfp1w0rg6> George, When you talk to P.A.E. and when you are onboard, could you please explore the logic behind two stabilization systems and the cost of each. Some questions that I have: 1. Is one system used in certain conditions in preference to the other? 2. Reliability of each system. 3. Hazards when using one system rather than the other. 4. If you only had the resources for one system, which one would you specify? Here on the Chesapeake, I have seen Krogen 42's roll severely when passed by planing vessels with large wakes. The rolls were so severe that anything not tied down would have gone flying. I watched the pilothouse crew hang on after being passed on an otherwise calm Severn River. Don't forget the new and unaffordable Nordhavn 47. Warm regards, Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD From lnmoose@htonline.com Fri Jun 8 11:02:21 2001 From: lnmoose@htonline.com (K. Alan Robbins) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:02:21 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar & EMF Emissions Message-ID: <006001c0f02c$056f4760$01010a0a@Moose.local> Having followed the thread closely I'd like to make an attempt to set the record straight on EMF. We amateur radio operators had quite a row over this a few years back when the FCC mandated that we perform EMF evaluations on our stations to insure that we were not causing harm to our neighbors. 1> The primary known danger from EMF is heating of resonant body tissues. If you have a tuning fork for middle C, and strike the middle C key on a piano near by, the tuning fork vibrates because it's length matches the wavelength of the middle C sound frequency. This also generates heat in the tuning fork. In other words, the sound wave distance from peak to trough is the same as the length of the tuning fork, so it reacts to it. The same effect occurs at 1/2 wavelength, and 1/4 wavelength, and 1/8 wavelength -- the "harmonics" of the fundamental frequency. Law of Physics (somewhat immutable :-): The wavelength is determined by the frequency. In a radar set, with a wavelength of 2.5 cm, the eyes are at risk because there are parts in the eyes that are exactly that size. You don't have heat sensors in your eyes so you never feel the damage being done. 2> The effective radiated power (ERP) of the system is a function of how much power is fed in and how much gain is realized by the antenna system. After the energy leaves the system, it's power decreases on a logarithmic scale for each wavelength distance away from the antenna. So, with a 2.5cm wavelength, the exposure is strongest within 2.5 cm of the antenna. 5cm away the exposure is 1/2 that. 10cm away it halves again. That's why you need 4,000 watts to "see" such a short distance; what comes back to the receiver is measured in millionths of a watt after a 20 mile round trip. There are several things to consider here: A 4KW radar set at eye level carries a real exposure risk within a few feet. On the typical trawler with a short mast or no mast at all I'd put the radar set at the lower helm station and not run it at all when I was on the flybridge. That's the safest measure. You have a real risk that no one has mentioned using a VHF handheld. These are in the 150 Mhz range, which translates to a wavelength of around 2.5 meters, and the user typically holds the thing right in front of their face, with the antenna right next to the body. Remember that 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 wavelength body parts are all at risk here. Best approach here: Use the lowest power setting necessary to maintain communication. If you must use a 5watt handheld, get an external microphone and wear it on a belt clip, then at least you aren't sending RF right into your head at such close range. There's less body parts down there that are subject to damage. However, given that most handhelds are used for line of sight communication, you can probably get by with 100 milli-watts 99% of the time and 1 watt max in extreme conditions -- makes the battery last longer too. No, we don't know everything there is to know about exposure to EMF. But armed with the laws of physics we can make reasonable judgments with respect to our own safety. The formulas for ERP, frequency to wavelength, etc. are all available and you can make an RF assessment of your boat's electronics. The golden rule is to use the lowest power necessary to get the job done. On a trawler that does 7knts, do you really need a 48 mile radar horizon all the time? When you're in the dingy 100 feet from the mother ship, do you need the high power setting on the handheld? When you're on the flybridge, and your VHF antenna is mounted right next to where you are sitting, and you are calling the marina that you can see with your eyes to ask if there is a slip/mooring do you need all 50 watts that the radio can put out? Regards Alan Robbins 34' MT D/C "Sea Moose" W8VCK From LLadd68321@aol.com Fri Jun 8 11:09:20 2001 From: LLadd68321@aol.com (LLadd68321@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:09:20 EDT Subject: TWL: Oil for what its worth Message-ID: <122.685d4.285244a0@aol.com> I am currently undergoing a major engine repair. The repair is being done by a ex Volvo heavy diesel instructor and on the road trouble shooter and mechanic. He rebuilds engine for Volvo in the winter. Two things he is adamant about is the use of synthetic oil for diesels,and using diesel antifreeze in diesels engines. He has choosen to use Ams Oil in all his engines and will put that in my engine when it gets put back together. I already have a bypass oil filter, but per his instructions will change oil ever 100 hours. Even thought I carry enough oil for 2 oil changes aboard I think I will continue to use Rotella 15w40 when the time comes. Not because I like it better but because it is much easier to find when on the move. If I were in one location I am sure I would stick with Ams Oil. If you check the archives Captn Wil would agree with synthetic. Lee Ladd M/V DBL-ELL On the Loop www.dblell.com<<<--website lladd68321@aol.com 513-218-6410 boat and only cell phone From Eric@ColonialCraft.com Fri Jun 8 11:36:04 2001 From: Eric@ColonialCraft.com (Eric Bloomquist) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:36:04 -0500 Subject: TWL: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems Message-ID: <21C1A1EB7B90D3118184009027C3AAC15B20FC@EXCHANGE_01> As an expectant owner of a N40 (#29, due in early October) I can offer some thoughts on the N40 stabilization choices. I have also talked to many other N40 owners who have gone through the decision making process and have lived with their choices. 2 things everyone will agree on 1. N40s (and most full disp crawlers) need stabilization. 2. Not everyone will agree on which type is best. Passive fish: Excellent roll dampening Less convenient to deploy and retrieve Works at anchor Appeals to "non-mechanical" purists Better at lower speeds Less expensive Active hydraulics (mostly naiads) Excellent roll dampening Always ready at push of button - will use more often No benefit at anchor Better in shallow waters and bar crossings Will catch fewer crab pots Most N40 owners say that the ultimate solution is both but few if any private boats have been built that way. Majority of recent boats (including ours) have gone with Naiads. Eric Bloomquist From BOATGUY2@aol.com Fri Jun 8 12:02:01 2001 From: BOATGUY2@aol.com (BOATGUY2@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:02:01 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7a.1615e58c.285250f9@aol.com> In a message dated 6/8/2001 7:59:31 AM Central Daylight Time, wmartin@tampabay.rr.com writes: Sounds like a timing issue of ETA vs. Show dates. Russ Simon From Awgertoo@aol.com Fri Jun 8 12:13:23 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:13:23 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/8/01 11:38:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Eric@ColonialCraft.com writes: << Passive fish: Excellent roll dampening--Not as good as active fins by a wide margin Less convenient to deploy and retrieve--That's an understantement! Works at anchor--Only with anching stabilizers Appeals to "non-mechanical" purists--Only important if you think it is! Better at lower speeds--Shackle position must be changed w/speed. Less expensive--Probably, depending on the rig. Active hydraulics (mostly naiads) Excellent roll dampening--Far superior to fish Always ready at push of button - will use more often--Leave them on all the time. No benefit at anchor--True Better in shallow waters and bar crossings--True Will catch fewer crab pots--Depends. >> Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE (w/both systems) From doughoople@earthlink.net Fri Jun 8 04:41:00 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:41:00 +0100 Subject: TWL: Oil for what its worth In-Reply-To: <122.685d4.285244a0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B208F9C.3495F31A@earthlink.net> Two things he is adamant about is the use of synthetic oil for diesels... ...He has choosen to use Ams Oil AMS is for motorcycle racers and people who rebuild their engines every other week Besides, they don't publish their sulphated ash numbr. Give me a motor oil for an engine that sits in a damp, salty basement for years between rebuilds. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Fri Jun 8 14:03:35 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: shaft zincs In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607230803.024e5ec0@pop.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <20010608180335.65629.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Something strange to disucss. I tried to put on a shaft zinc on my trawler. 1 1/2 was too small, 1 3/4 too large. Equivalent metric (as I recall was 40mm) was too small. Anyone suggest somethign to try? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From e16@telus.net Fri Jun 8 14:25:17 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:25:17 -0700 Subject: TWL: The Fuel Evolution Message-ID: A little bit of ongoing history: As petroleum supplies became ever scarcer during WWII, scientists were charged with developing alternatives. An oilseed known in Germany as "Raps" and in North America as Rapeseed, was further developed and planted in large quantities. Fortuitously, it grows well on marginal land and proved viable. After the war, the return of assured petroleum supplies - does this sound familiar? - led governments to abandon research into the use of vegetable feedstock as a petroleum substitute. However, all those fields, on which not much else would grow quite so well, were still producing rapeseed, so it became a major feedstock for vegetable oils in human food processing. One of the negatives, however, is that the stalks contained erucic acid in proportions high enough to taint the milk and meat of animals that ate it. Not good for the dairy and beef industries. In the 1970's, scientists in Canada were able to modify the plant to produce a low-acid variety, and then, I believe, one which is now virtually acid-free. This last strain was re-branded as "Canola", and with corn and soy, has rapidly become one of the most ubiquitous high-quality vegetable oils consumed by humans. It's in everything from salad dressings to margarines, ice cream, processed foods, etc., while the "hay" is processed into animal feed. Of course, developments continue into other areas of substitution such as sugar into ethanol. The next step, much closer than most people realize, is the complete demise of the gasoline and diesel engines as we move into the hydrogen era. No snorts of disbelief, please. Consumers are already buying hydrogen cars based on hybrid engines that run partly on gasoline and partly on H2. However, 2003 will witness the large scale introduction - hopefully without a big bang - of pure hydrogen vehicles including trucks and buses from most of the major automotive manufacturers. These companies are all firmly committed to hydrogen, and almost all of them believe that they will produce their last petroleum-based engine within the next 10-15 years. The first crop of H2 vehicles will be powered by fuel cells with methanol reformers on board to produce the H2. Ford has a new internal combustion engine that runs on H2 using an external fuel source, but as the hydrogen fuelling infrastructure develops, most analysts believe the fuel cell will easily prevail. For anyone that's concerned, the "drive-ability" of the fuel cell is as good as the engine we now know. However, the silence is remarkable. Cheers, Garrett From samakijoe@mediaone.net Fri Jun 8 14:31:34 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:31:34 -0400 Subject: TWL: shaft zincs In-Reply-To: <20010608180335.65629.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010608143134.007eb740@pop.pompano.net> At 11:03 AM 06/08/2001 -0700, Dan Symula wrote: >Something strange to disucss. I tried to put on a >shaft zinc on my trawler. 1 1/2 was too small, 1 3/4 >too large. Equivalent metric (as I recall was 40mm) >was too small. Anyone suggest somethign to try? > >Dan >37 Roughwater >"Wen I Dream" Dan: I buy mine (1 1/2") from an outfit named Zimar International (this is a two man shop) (1-954-424-3844) in Fort Lauderdale. they have zincs in inchs and metric sizes His thinks you need a 40mm. measure your shaft and give him a call. (40mm = $9.95) If they fit, get a bunch. the usual, no connection, etc,etc ...jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From lmills@mail.state.mo.us Fri Jun 8 14:36:31 2001 From: lmills@mail.state.mo.us (Mills, Lewis) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:36:31 -0500 Subject: TWL: RE: The Fuel Evolution Message-ID: "almost all of them believe that they will produce their last petroleum-based engine within the next 10-15 years." Wow, this is interesting. Have any of the US companies said so publicly? From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Fri Jun 8 14:58:22 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:58:22 -0400 Subject: TWL: Gps Help Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010608145822.007bd100@earthlink.net> Is there anyone handy with WAYPOINT+ or GPSUtility that could give me some help. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From skurowski@home.com Fri Jun 8 15:04:28 2001 From: skurowski@home.com (Stan Kurowski) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:04:28 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: The Fuel Evolution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I read an article in the past few days about a GM 24 hour test of a hydrogen powered fuel cell car. The GM rep. said that they would be working toward releasing the car with a gasoline reformer. As he said, there are gas stations everywhere and people are familiar and comfortable with the distribution network (and they won't be fighting big oil). I might also add that they have diesel reformers also. How about clean silent power turning that prop and running your systems. Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA SNIP > > The first crop of H2 vehicles will be powered by fuel cells with methanol > reformers on board to produce the H2. Ford has a new internal combustion > engine that runs on H2 using an external fuel source, but as the hydrogen > fuelling infrastructure develops, most analysts believe the fuel cell will > easily prevail. For anyone that's concerned, the "drive-ability" > of the fuel > cell is as good as the engine we now know. However, the silence is > remarkable. > > Cheers, Garrett > From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Fri Jun 8 15:22:16 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:22:16 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems In-Reply-To: <21C1A1EB7B90D3118184009027C3AAC15B20FC@EXCHANGE_01> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010608152216.007be9f0@earthlink.net> Why buy a boat that needs all that additional help to be comfortable and safe. The corrections are expensive, require maintenance, slow you down and are cumbersome. Is that spending your money wisely or are you looking for a project. Like I said before Krogens are holy rollers, take one out in a 3-4 foot beam chop. Come on over and I will give you a ride on a boat properly designed and needs none of the above help. .============================================================== >As an expectant owner of a N40 (#29, due in early October) I can offer some >thoughts on the N40 stabilization choices. I have also talked to many >other N40 owners who have gone through the decision making process and have >lived with their choices. > >2 things everyone will agree on > >1. N40s (and most full disp crawlers) need stabilization. >2. Not everyone will agree on which type is best. > >Passive fish: > >Excellent roll dampening >Less convenient to deploy and retrieve >Works at anchor >Appeals to "non-mechanical" purists >Better at lower speeds >Less expensive > >Active hydraulics (mostly naiads) > >Excellent roll dampening >Always ready at push of button - will use more often >No benefit at anchor >Better in shallow waters and bar crossings >Will catch fewer crab pots > >Most N40 owners say that the ultimate solution is both but few if any >private boats have been built that way. Majority of recent boats (including >ours) have gone with Naiads. > >Eric Bloomquist > > Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From tonymarshall@hargray.com Fri Jun 8 15:08:41 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:08:41 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems Message-ID: Eric: Out of curiosity, when you say "majority of recent boats...have gone with Naiads" do you mean Nordhavns, or do you include other makes? And is this based on information originating from Nordhavn or Naiad, or is it anecdotal? _________________________________________ Tony Marshall, happily stabilized by Trac K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head Island, SC From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Fri Jun 8 15:24:49 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:24:49 -0400 Subject: TWL: shaft zincs In-Reply-To: <20010608180335.65629.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010608152449.007b95f0@earthlink.net> At 11:03 AM 6/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >Something strange to disucss. I tried to put on a >shaft zinc on my trawler. 1 1/2 was too small, 1 3/4 >too large. Equivalent metric (as I recall was 40mm) >was too small. Anyone suggest somethign to try? > >Dan >================================================= What is your shaft size????????? . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From Thataway@aol.com Fri Jun 8 15:25:26 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:25:26 EDT Subject: TWL: Zincs Message-ID: <82.bb6974d.285280a6@aol.com> They need to be tight. Put a caliper on the shaft and find out what size it is. You can grind out the smaller zinc to fit, with a moderatly slow speed drill and a circular rasp (lets say 1 1/2 inch diameter and take it up to what you need. Bob Austin From alexh@olypen.com Fri Jun 8 15:49:41 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:49:41 -0700 Subject: TWL: Oil, Fuel, TBN, and other stuff Message-ID: <00f301c0f055$1af19420$61cfeed0@gte.net> A petroleum laced good morning, The list of "Detroit Oils" that Doug provided is an excellent starting point but also be aware that there are even more possibilities on the market. I'm a bit embarrassed about the Exxon statement; up until about two weeks ago I worked for a good sized distributor of Exxon products and I hadn't heard this one. Ignorance has never stopped me before though so here's my take on the matter. First, a few background facts: As has been mentioned TBN is a measure of an oil's ability to neutralize acids; specifically strong inorganic acids like sulfuric and nitric that are a byproduct of the combustion process. Detergent/dispersant additives are usually calcium based alkaline compounds. TBN derives from the alkalinity of the det/disp. Detroit Diesel 2-strokes are prone to exhaust port deposits when the sulfated ash level is too high. The sulfated ash number is, in reality, a fairly artificial construct that is used because it is reproducible and it has been predictive of things like exhaust port deposits. OK, so along comes Exxon with a magnesium based det/disp. That could affect the significance of the sulfated ash number two different ways. First the sulfated ash number is likely to be different simply because the molecular weights of the two additives are different. There is also the possibility that the sulfating process (basically a treatment with sulfuric acid) will affect an Mg based additive differently than a Ca based one. Second, it is entirely possible that a Mg based additive will have different properties WRT the relationship between sulfated ash level and exhaust port deposits. Please note that it's likely that all of those things are true to some extent. Which brings us to the way oil company research departments do things. Petroleum science and tribology are essentially empiric in nature and companies like Exxon have very deep pockets. When the light goes on in a researchers head about a possible new additive they simply buy a few pieces of the target equipment (DD 2-strokes in this case), mix up a batch of the new oil, and see what happens. When you've got a 45 million dollar research budget a lot of things are possible. My point here is that they don't care too much about why something works, only that it does. The subject of sulfur level in fuel came up [For the purposes of this post I won't consider air pollution]. In the USA "High Sulfur" diesel has a maximum of 0.5% sulfur and is sold for off road applications (including marine) while "Low Sulfur" diesel has a maximum 0.05% sulfur and is used in on road applications. BTW: There are exceptions such as California where "Low Sulfur" fuel is mandated for everyone. These levels are fairly low compared to much of the world. Fuel sulfur is important because of its effect on engine parts and the ability of the motor oil to neutralize it. When diesel burns the sulfur does too and produces SOx which combines with water to make sulfurous and sulfuric acid which needs to be neutralized so that it won't damage anything. Enter TBN, which, as stated above, is a measure of the oil's ability to neutralize acids. The higher the level of sulfur, the more acid produced, and the more quickly the oil's TBN is used up. The oils commonly used in the US are formulated to deal with high sulfur as defined in US terms (0.5%). In other parts of the world, however, sulfur levels may be much higher and require a higher TBN or far more frequent oil changes. As an example of this; We had a discussion some time back with a Chevron distributor in the south pacific (either Guam or Samoa, I'm having CRS). The only motor oil he could sell for commercial use was DELO 300 which isn't nearly as good an oil as DELO 400 but has a very high TBN. The reason is that their diesel was typically 2% sulfur and the DELO 300 was the only oil that could "keep up" with all the acid being formed. Paul Kruse has told me that sulfur levels in Africa are also typically very high. Before leaving the subject of TBN and crankcase acids I should point out that there is convincing evidence that the use of a bypass cellulose filter such as the GCF will drastically slow the depletion of an oil's TBN. The reason for that is that the SOx is harmless (sort of) until it combines with water to form acid. Cellulose has this weird ability to take water out of oil or oil out of water so by running your oil through such a filter the water source is eliminated, the acid doesn't form, and the TBN doesn't get depleted. This is one of the reasons that GCF can make the claim of eliminating routine oil drains. FWIW: I've seen oil analysis reports that support this. AFWIW: I have no connection to GCF other than the fact that I consider Charlie Sims (owner) a friend. On the subject of synthetic oils; They're OK as long as you make sure that you're buying a product that meets the requirements for your engine. IMHO your best assurance of this is to read the label before you purchase and make certain that the oil meets both the API and SAE requirements that you need. It also helps to have your BS detector tuned to its most sensitive position; I have talked to synthetic oil salesmen that made all kinds of claims for their brand but had never heard of API - Not a confidence builder! Whether a synthetic product will give you any real world benefit in a trawler is doubtful to me and whether any benefit would outweigh the increased price is even more doubtful. Opinionatively yours, Alex From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Fri Jun 8 16:11:26 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:11:26 -0400 Subject: TWL: New supply for engine parts - all makes Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010608161126.007bd420@earthlink.net> This is an advertisement that came to one of my mailboxes. I think it is something that anyone with an engine on board would like to know about. Check my following site http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain/pix.html You will find this information below the horsepower curves. I hope you save a buck. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From e16@telus.net Fri Jun 8 16:53:26 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:53:26 -0700 Subject: TWL: H2 Message-ID: "almost all of them believe that they will produce their last petroleum-based engine within the next 10-15 years." Snip Yes. I think it was Ford's Chairman who was recently quoted as saying that he expected to "preside over the demise of the gasoline engine", i.e. that it would happen within his mandate as Chairman. Daimler-Chrysler is a major investor in Ballard - see next para - and already has buses on the road in test in many countries. All of the other firms will have access to Ballard's technology, whether through purchases of production units or, more probably, via licensing. The advantage of hydrogen is that it is produced from nothing more than fresh water and electricity. The only "waste" is pure oxygen, a rather beneficial by-product to vent into the atmosphere. It can also "store" electricity produced during off-peak" hours, although if you live in California, there's not much of that these days. My personal prediction has always been that hydrogen will drive a come-back for nuclear power. The H2 shift has lots of consequences and raise lots of issues, but we've managed other technological revolutions before. Because it will displace existing technology, major economic adjustment will be necessary to deal with plant closings, worker redundancies, etc. Big Oil knows that world petroleum reserves are down to the last 50 years, and that the cost of hydrogen is quite competitive against oil at $40 a barrel. They will adapt and turn their existing infrastructure and distribution networks into H2 systems. However, hydrogen offers an alternative. Several companies have already started to produce home-based hydrogen fuelling "appliances". Just hook them up to your garden hose and plug them into a clothes-dryer circuit. They will sit in your driveway or garage and overnight fill your car with enough fuel for about 300 miles range. Meanwhile it vents pure oxygen into your home. Slightly larger units can be hung on the walls of convenience stores to give you a "fill" while you pick up the milk. The possibilities are really limitless. Ecologists will push the H2 agenda, because hydrogen is so clean, but there's subsidiary requirement, i.e. that the electricity also be green. If the H2 is produced from electricity generated by fossil fuels... Hence my bet on nuclear. Ballard Fuel Cells - "THE" fuel cell company -converts hydrogen to electricity using a membrane technology, and now has cells in commercial production. Among their units is a retro-fit model designed to be dropped into the engine bays of buses as a direct replacement for existing diesels in places where air quality issues are important. I can tell you from personal experience that most covers most major cities in Asia, Latin America, and eastern Europe, for they lie under blankets of smog. Of course, with liquid fuel reformers, these bus units would work perfectly well in boats. Unfortunately, until production ramps up to levels where economies of scale kick in, they're going to be really expensive, and it will be government subsidies to deal with pollution issues that will make the early installations viable. I hadn't thought of the significant boating advantage that Stan Kurowski mentioned, i.e. the fact that the cell is absolutely silent except for a blower unit. When I rode in a fuel cell bus recently, what struck me were the noises from the chassis and the road that are usually masked by the engine. Just think of driving your trawler from inside with the only sound in your ear being the water against the hull. Now that's worth something. Got carried away. Sorry. Cheers, Garrett From alexh@olypen.com Fri Jun 8 22:07:10 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:07:10 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: H2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003901c0f088$f4b82060$8dcfeed0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrett Lambert" > > I hadn't thought of the significant boating advantage that Stan Kurowski > mentioned, i.e. the fact that the cell is absolutely silent except for a > blower unit Hi Garrett, Another advantage comes when you get to the anchorage. If you have 120hp to drive the boat then you have a (roughly) 90KW genset that's also virtually silent. Also, since most trawlers only use a fraction of the available motive power, you would usually have plenty of excess juice for house functions while underway as well. It would further seem that all of this comes without the penalties associated with running a genset at low output levels. Silent, clean cruising and silent, clean anchorages what a concept! Of course this all goes out the window as soon as someone figures out that he has enough electricity to power a rock band on his sundeck but I guess no technology is perfect. I.G.Y.'ly yours Alex P.S. Before someone asks, that close is a reference to Donald Fagen's song "I.G.Y." from his "Nightfly" album. ibid From afraser@flash.net Fri Jun 8 22:19:58 2001 From: afraser@flash.net (Andrew & Linda Fraser) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:19:58 -0700 Subject: TWL: Active vs Passive Stabilization Message-ID: <003b01c0f08a$b19a33c0$6921aace@oemcomputer> As an owner of a Nordhavn 46 that has both passive and active stabilization (Naiads), I think Eric's summary is on the mark. One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention though is that the Naiads should be turned off in large, overtaking following seas as they can actually induce a broach. Linda Andrew & Linda Fraser M/V KAISOOBA N46 Eric Bloomquist wrote: Passive fish: Excellent roll dampening Less convenient to deploy and retrieve Works at anchor Appeals to "non-mechanical" purists Better at lower speeds Less expensive Active hydraulics (mostly naiads): Excellent roll dampening Always ready at push of button - will use more often No benefit at anchor Better in shallow waters and bar crossings Will catch fewer crab pots From moana@xsw.com Sat Jun 9 01:33:06 2001 From: moana@xsw.com (Charles Vollum) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 22:33:06 -0700 Subject: TWL: Adagio's Wireless LAN experience Message-ID: This is being forwarded from Steve Darden aboard Adagio, currently in Tasmania. For some reason, he is experiencing difficulty posting the TWL... Charles Dear List, We've been having too much fun in Hobart to write much, and until recently haven't had enough bandwidth to subscribe to TWL, but hope to catch up soon (and to update website). We'll be in Tasmania until roughly April/May next year. Then directly to Chile or maybe Alaska-down-to-Chile. Thence into Atlantic. Life is GOOD here (more to follow). And happiness is a fast net connection! Since last Friday we have a 50 to 65 kbyte/sec wireless LAN running around Adagio. We're both gorging on a long list of www sites we've been wanting to study :-) If any listees been yearning to have high speed access from the boat, this will work for you anywhere you can get somebody with a landline to plug in your base station within line of sight, and within a range of up to (possibly) 15 miles - haven't tested over water, but that is supposed to be ideal conditions for wireless LAN. Config is: - Apple Airport Base Station, 100baseT connected at nearby ISP - a pair of 16db planar antennas, one at ISP, one on rail of Adagio's coachroof - Airport cards in G4 Tower and Powerbook G4 The signal strength from the base station + directional antenna is sufficient that we can wander around the boat (area) with G4 laptop with better than 56kb modem link. But to get real speed of course we need directional both ends. One chap in NZ I found searching the net had achieved similar performance at about 12km using nominal 12db Yagis. That was over land, over water we might do better. Cost is about MSRP $299 for base station (which can also do 56kb modem line), and $99 per Airport card (a WaveLAN silver, also in base station). All this stuff works on PCs as well, IEE811.2, just need to download a base station config utility written for Windows. Here's a link, courtesy of Charles Vollum, that I found very useful, which contains other definitive links, including vendors specializing in wireless networking: Cheers, Steve Darden s/v Adagio Hobart, TAS Australia 0415/782-305 http://www.adagiomarine.com From hal@halwyman.com Sat Jun 9 01:33:14 2001 From: hal@halwyman.com (Hal Wyman) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 22:33:14 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: The Fuel Evolution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Would anybody care to hazard a guess as to when we will be able to replace a generator with a fuel cell? I like the concept of quiet, as in very quiet, as in silent. Hal > > The first crop of H2 vehicles will be powered by fuel cells with methanol > reformers on board to produce the H2. Ford has a new internal combustion > engine that runs on H2 using an external fuel source, but as the hydrogen > fuelling infrastructure develops, most analysts believe the fuel cell will > easily prevail. For anyone that's concerned, the "drive-ability" > of the fuel > cell is as good as the engine we now know. However, the silence is > remarkable. > > Cheers, Garrett > From adagio@our.net.au Sat Jun 9 03:10:00 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:10:00 +1000 Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise Message-ID: Dear List, We've tested 3 different types of short range radios aboard Adagio - for the purpose of communicating from one part of the boat to another. E.g., when coral piloting and one of us may be up the mast. All work pretty with less than 5kn of wind across the deck, but in the 'real world' the wind noise pretty much makes the comm useless. Our current favorite radios are the Motorola T6310 units. Has anyone come across a hands-free headset that will tolerate the wind? Many thanks, Steve Darden s/v Adagio GPO 2046 Hobart, TAS 7001 Australia 0415/782-305 http://www.adagiomarine.com From ctlow@boatdocking.com Sat Jun 9 07:16:25 2001 From: ctlow@boatdocking.com (Charles T. Low) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 07:16:25 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar & EMF Emissions In-Reply-To: <20010609040015.DB96C26247@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010609071432.00a0c1c0@mail.superaje.com> >(VHF): If you must use a >5watt handheld, get an external microphone and wear it on a belt clip, then >at least you aren't sending RF right into your head at such close range. >There's less body parts down there that are subject to damage. Not on me there aren't! Charles ==== Charles T. Low, author of Boat Docking ======== From fburrows@mail.com Sat Jun 9 10:19:52 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:19:52 -0400 Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010609100246.00a110e0@pop.site1.csi.com> Steve: Have you tried the Aviator 500 headset walkie talkies that were the subject of a great discussion earlier this year? They are full duplex so you will still hear wind noise but the noise will not hold open the mike like the voice operated ones do. In other words you can talk over the noise. Also I would like to ask the list if anybody has a source. F A O Swartz and Amazon/ToysRUs both have had them on backorder for quite a while but I called DSI the importer and they don't have a clue. Did anyone find them in a store? Frank Burrows 1979 43' Viking MY Piney Narrows Marina Chesapeake Bay From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 10:34:14 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:34:14 -0400 Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010609103414.007c31c0@earthlink.net> Use a throat mike............... . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From doughoople@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 02:34:50 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 07:34:50 +0100 Subject: TWL: Oil, Fuel, TBN, and other stuff In-Reply-To: <00f301c0f055$1af19420$61cfeed0@gte.net> Message-ID: <3B21C38A.5BD876BC@earthlink.net> Alex, OK, so along comes Exxon with a magnesium based det/disp. That could affect the significance of the sulfated ash number two different ways So now I'm confused. Are you saying that the impact of 0.9% for the XD-3 may not be as high as it seems (relative to Delo 100 at 0.76%, for example) because the chemistry is different? Or are you saying that 0.9% is pretty damned good for an oil with a TBN of 9.2? Thanks for an otherwise very illuminating post. BTW. Apologies to AMSOIL. I made snotty remarks about it based on its extravagant website claims, and my sense that it all sounded a lot like the same snake oil stuff that you hear from oil treatment salespeople. It's apparently reputable and good stuff, as pointed out to me by someone who may not want his name divulged in the open (not tied to the company, though). I still don't like the way they sell themselves, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that they're a bad product. I can't use it, because my Detroits use up enough oil to effectively keep me at 100-hour change intervals anyway, but that's my problem not theirs. ABTW, I'll be the first on my block to re-power with H2, if and when they become available to ordinary folks like us. Think of the silent swish past the breakwater, and the nostalgia for the days when a boat sounded like a truck. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From Richter-Pooh@rocketmail.com Sat Jun 9 10:57:09 2001 From: Richter-Pooh@rocketmail.com (Mark Richter) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 07:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: purchasing a diesel- new or rebuilt? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010609145709.20043.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> <> Many boats are over-engined, in my opinion. The designers may just be playing it safe. If the engine is too small, the owner will be unhappy with the performance. If the engine is too large, fuel consumption will be excessive, but the owner probably will never know it. For full displacement boats, 2 hp per 1000 lbs fully loaded displacement is adequate. <> Consider the John Deere (or Lugger) 130 hp NA 6-cyl. I have the 80 hp 4-banger, and have been very happy with it over 4 years and 2800 hours. Turbos are a layer of complexity you'd rather not deal with, over the long term. <> Diesels burn just about 1 gph for each 18 hp being produced (in the normal rpm and loading range). Diesels specific fuel consumption goes up considerably at very low power loading (large engines run at low rpm). Your fuel system, filters, etc., must be able to pass this amount at full power, even though you'll probably cruise at less than half power. Winnie the Pooh (33,000 lbs, 80 hp) can burn 4.2 gph at full throttle (2500 rpm, 8.6 kts), but normally burns 1.5 gph at cruise (1800 rpm, 7.5 kts, using 27 hp). <> I think it is rarely good economy to buy a rebuilt diesel engine. Even if the rebuild is well done, you still have mostly old parts in the accessories like heat exchanger, alternator, starter, water pumps, fuel injection pump, transmission and oil coolers, etc. These accessories are the parts most likely to cause problems. A diesel engine should give good service for 20 years or so in typical trawler-yacht service. What shop will warranty a re-build for even 2 years? 4 years ago, my JD 80 cost $9100 new with control panel and transmission. It should last 20,000 hours or 20 years, whichever comes first. ===== Mark Richter, M.E., aboard M/V Winnie the Pooh, custom Morgan 46 Pilothouse Efficiency Trawler. "Mark's Mobile Marine" electrical systems repair & consulting. Homeport Stuart, FL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 11:08:39 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:08:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: Bottoms Up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010609110839.007c54c0@earthlink.net> At 06:27 AM 6/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >Al, Krogen owners are hurt when you coastal guys start throwing stones at >our boats. Actually you're right, and I don't think there is an owner that >would deny that they do not handle a beam sea well. However, in my part of >the country common travel direction and prevailing winds seldom put me in a >beam sea. The Krogen handles very well in heavy weather with or without >stabilizers. Last week I was in 7-8 foot seas winds gusting to 40 mph with >seas at about 10:30 off my bow. > >I do not know much about your hull but personally I would rather be in a >full displacement hull on the open sea. ============================================================ Peter------I owned a full displacement. I now have a modified bottom by Jack Hargrave. Round as yours 1/3 back from the bow for a soft entry and then gently becomes a planing stern. Fullnes in the bow so in a stern sea the bow has good floatation and doesn't burrow like yours does. This also eliminates the hobby horsing you do in some head seas. The flattness aft eliminates a lot of roll. and if high powered will scoot while you fight it out for hours. I Also have a large keel that is about 10" below the props. The only full displacment hull I would rather be on in extreme conditions would be a sailboat not a full displacement trawler. I have been on a lot of boats in many different conditions and that is one reason I gave up my displacement hull. I spent 22 years and 8000 running hours on a round bottom--Good Luck. This is a discussion of hull lines, I know there are a lot of happy Kadey owners and that is what makes horse races. You pays your money and takes your choice. Good Cruisn' and small beam seas. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Sat Jun 9 11:35:40 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:35:40 -0700 Subject: TWL: Radar Emissions Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6705B9B@BCMAIL1> I'm attending the Bayliner rendezvous in Roche Harbor San Juan Is. so I made a point of having a look at the latest crop of boats with regards to the location of radar mounting and helmseats. There is at least two feet vertical height difference between the 48 Ft and the 34 ft cruisers. So if the 48 ft boat has an arch which just clears the helmspersons head with the radar beam then the smallest boat definitely has a problem. In addition, while the 48 ft positions the radar about 8-10 feet behind the helmseat the 34 ft boat has the arch and radar only about 4 feet behind the driver's position. Guess which boat doesn't have a lower station to steer from? I suspect the radar position falls into the same category as VHF antennas that are installed at the same raked angle as the arch and the back sloping flag poles. Looks real racy, but doesn't do anything for actual performance. regards Arild From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Sat Jun 9 11:40:04 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:40:04 -0700 Subject: TWL: Detecting/Measuring Radar Emissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5FDC7706FA36D311BDB700805FEA25A70CFB2E1D@BCMAIL1> -----Original Message----- From: Bill Martin [mailto:wmartin@tampabay.rr.com] Subject: Re: TWL: Detecting/Measuring Radar Emissions Bill Martin wrote: << snip>> This goes back to the issue of whether the guy installing your radar really knows what he's doing or not.... Bill Arild writes: In defense of radar installers everywhere: When the boat builder only provides one place suitable for installing the radar antenna, don't fault the installer. When I raised objections to this I was overruled by both my boss ( the Marina owner & dealer ) and the boat owner who thought my idea would not "look smart and stylish". As a practical matter, "where else do you mount the darn thing? asked my boss. So I ended up installing about 20 odd radars on the arch location designed by the boat builder because it looked stylish!. Had I refused, the job would have been done by the carpenter. I would have been the poorer and the owner no wiser. Add to that the self serving comment from the Furuno maker quoting a safety bulletin which refers to an "Average" power density. Did you know that a man with his head encased in ice and his feet in the fire would "on average" feel like it was room temperature at his midriff. So why might he complain about the heat or the cold?? < grin> I know from personal experience that no manufacture will knowingly admit to any information which could in any way be considered detrimental to or alarmist with respect to their own products. Steve Darden and I have gone round this very argument a long time ago. No disrespect intended to Steve, but unless I can verify for myself the validity of the data that Furuno quotes, I remain skeptical. Especially since I develop headaches from exposure to a small 1.5 Kw radar at ten feet or more in as little as a few minutes. Cheers Arild From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 11:41:20 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:41:20 -0400 Subject: TWL: From Charlie, Fuel Polisher Extraordinaire Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010609114120.007c0160@earthlink.net> Dear Al, I've been away for awhile so I went back to June 4th or 5th on the TWL to "catch up." The numerous posts about "multi-viscosity" oils was amazing. It is understandable, though, that most folks simply don't know one oil from another (and don't realize that there's not a dime's worth of difference between ANY of the major oil manufacturer's premium oils)! Regardless of the engine (except for the old 2-cycle Detroits) simply pick the brand you feel comfortable with and buy their best 15W40 diesel engine rated oil and go, go, go, go, go........... Please pass on to your TWL listees that the REASON that a SINGLE WEIGHT oil is recommended and used in the old 2-cycle Detroits is that the oil temperature in those engines, forever, was/is 225 to 240 degrees (unlike conventional 4 strokes that the oil temp is 200 to 210 degrees). The higher temperatures would BOIL OFF the components of the multi-viscosity oils that made them MULTI-VIS oils, leaving an oil that oftentimes was well over 40W and could end up as high as 50w +. (I proved this with oil analysis as far back as 1969!) I never recommended a multi-viscosity oil for the old Detroit 2-cycles but put the fleets I was a consultant to on the multi-viscosity oils AS SOON AS THEY CAME OUT, long before the engine manufacturers would allow the use of multi-viscosity oils in their diesel engines. My reasoning way back then was that with the 10W-40, etc., it was better to have SOME OIL FLOWING (10W) rather than none with the straight weight oils, at startup. All those posts on the multi-viscosity oils was the most interesting (at least to me) of any subject to date on the TWL. It will be a great day for ALL boaters when they install a good primary fuel filter, a by-pass oil filter, and use a good synthetic oil....BUT, if they only go out for 50 to 100 hours annually, just make sure they have a good primary fuel filter. Charlie . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 11:52:13 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:52:13 -0400 Subject: TWL: GPS problem Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010609115213.007c23b0@earthlink.net> I want to thank all that responded to my call for help with a program problem. I now know where I am which is supposed to be good but I was having more fun when I was lost. I should have marked my position for I'll probably never find that location again.............. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From NorthSea48@aol.com Sat Jun 9 12:15:20 2001 From: NorthSea48@aol.com (NorthSea48@aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:15:20 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <10.df59b07.2853a598@aol.com> In a message dated 6/8/2001 8:38:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Eric@ColonialCraft.com writes: > Most N40 owners say that the ultimate solution is both but few if any > private boats have been built that way. Majority of recent boats (including > ours) have gone with Naiads. Eric, If you haven't spoken with Jim Leischman recently about Naiads on the N40, you may wish to do so. I spoke with him last month at the Seattle Super Yacht (or whatever) Show where he was showing the N40 he'd just brought up from California. This boat is currently on display at the Poulsbo TrawlerFest. At any rate, one of the Naiad actuator pistons bent and broke on his trip up from California. He mentioned that the pistons were considerably smaller on the Naiads than he had seen on Wesmars or Tracs. He said he would planned to investigate further based on that experience. Terry Allen M/V Jacaranda (KK48NS) From e16@telus.net Sat Jun 9 12:20:57 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 09:20:57 -0700 Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Frank Re Aviator 500's: try Toys-R-Us Cheers, Garrett From alexh@olypen.com Sat Jun 9 13:01:26 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:01:26 -0700 Subject: TWL: Oil, Fuel, TBN, and other stuff In-Reply-To: <3B21C38A.5BD876BC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00ac01c0f107$d9fee680$3acfeed0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Hoople" > > So now I'm confused. Are you saying that the impact of 0.9% for the XD-3 may > not be as high as it seems (relative to Delo 100 at 0.76%, for example) because > the chemistry is different? Or are you saying that 0.9% is pretty damned good > for an oil with a TBN of 9.2? > Yes to both - I think. In the past it was necessary to keep det/disp (& TBN) somewhat low in order to keep sulfated ash low enough for DD 2-strokes with their proclivities for exhaust port deposits. If you can find a det/disp that doesn't cause exhaust port deposits (or at least at a lower level) which is what Exxon claims for the Mg based additive then you can use more additive. More additive should mean a cleaner engine and a higher TBN - Both are good things. It would be interesting to know how much the fairly short drain interval on DD 2-strokes is due to TBN depletion. > > BTW. Apologies to AMSOIL. I made snotty remarks about it based on its > extravagant website claims, > I just looked at a website for another brand of synthetic oil and found the same sort of thing. A decent product whose benefits are rendered unbelievable by the overblown rhetoric used to describe them. Maybe such sites should have an "entrance page" to direct folks either to the real information or to the fluffed up hype. []Click here if you're an intelligent adult []Click here if you're a nitwit. Seriously though, these people have a difficult task; They have to convince you that you'll get some sort of value out of a product that costs several times what you have been using. Major fleets spend hundreds of man hours with very sharp pencils trying to make such decisions (to date most of them stick to mineral oil). OTOH: The advertising guys are trying to sell to people who don't have the time, experience, or expertise to make a totally rational decision. Rantingly yours, Alex From riggs@olypen.com Sat Jun 9 12:19:05 2001 From: riggs@olypen.com (Thomas P. Riggs) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 09:19:05 -0700 Subject: TWL: Fw: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology Message-ID: <006c01c0f0ff$e8352e60$1bcdeed0@riggs> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas P. Riggs" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 6:46 AM Subject: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology Have a fully integrated system with a Heart 2200R panel. Almost fried all my new batteries when the system simply failed to shut off. Unfortunately, according to my own experience and many technicians I have talked with, the many acquisitions by Xantrex has the service end of the company in chaos. You will wait an hour on hold and then find someone who is not trained on the equipment. We disconnected the unit. Heart says they can not assure the system will work reliably. I will not leave the boat with the charger on any longer. Be aware of technical glitches in their equipment and no apparent desire to take care of folks at this time. Tom Riggs Young Brothers 38 Port Hadlock,Washington riggs@olypen.com From jtones@home.com Sat Jun 9 13:26:42 2001 From: jtones@home.com (John & Judy Tones) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:26:42 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Fw: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology In-Reply-To: <006c01c0f0ff$e8352e60$1bcdeed0@riggs> Message-ID: <000b01c0f109$59db0720$0f1d4118@gv.shawcable.net> I find this curious as last week I called the office in Vancouver BC and got all my questions answered in short order. Is this a case of sub-offices not being on stream with all the product lines due to them originally being one of the "swallowed up" smaller ones and not yet familiar with ALL the products ? John Tones, Victoria BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas P. Riggs" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:19 AM Subject: TWL: Fw: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology From bradburgess@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 13:56:36 2001 From: bradburgess@earthlink.net (Bradley Burgess) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:56:36 -0700 Subject: TWL: Oil Viscosities Message-ID: <3B226350.CC75C750@earthlink.net> Just got back to the computer and noticed this thread. Our GB46 has 3126 Cats equipped with Walker Airseps. Originally, Cat specified multi weight oil. The Cat distributor in San Diego, Hawthorne Power Systems, told us at the GB Rendezvous that these engines require straight 30 wt oil as the multigrade caused turbo deposits as a consequence of the Airsep system. There might actually be a service bulletin to this effect from Cat changing the oil requirement for these engines. Don't know if Walkers with multi grade have this effect with other engines or if that (the Walker system) is the real reason for the change. FYI From tonymarshall@hargray.com Sat Jun 9 16:46:54 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 16:46:54 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems Message-ID: From: Tony Marshall [mailto:tonymarshall@hargray.com] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:37 PM To: Eric Bloomquist Subject: RE: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems Yes, but did you identify the fins, if any, in each of those 12 boats? I have reason to believe that since early 2000 Nordhavn has been installing Trac stabilizers from American Bow Thruster, except where the customer insisted on Naiad (or other) fins, although this info may apply only to the larger Nordhavns. _____________________________ Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head Island, SC | -----Original Message----- | From: Eric Bloomquist [mailto:Eric@ColonialCraft.com] | Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:14 PM | To: 'Tony Marshall ' | Subject: RE: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems | | | Just speaking of N40s. I have personally seen at least 12 of the last 15 | boats in one stage of completion or another... From hbrink@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 17:51:06 2001 From: hbrink@earthlink.net (Harold R. Brink, PE) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:51:06 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #342/land lugging the Hordhavn In-Reply-To: <20010609040015.DB96C26247@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: Quote: "Re: TWL: Re: Nordhavn 40 circumnavigation At 07:51 AM 6/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >The circumnavigation was not conceived as a leisurely sightseeing tour but >rather a test of the newest and smallest model in the Nordhavn offshore >series. Principals and employees of PAE will skipper the boat. Journalists >and other guests will serve as crew. I presume you've read the press release from their web site. This trip seems like a masterful marketing stroke for them (assuming all goes well of course). I'm curious about one line down near the bottom of the release though. As I understand it they plan to drive the boat all the way around the world on its own bottom, and then when it gets back to California put it on a truck to send to east coast boat shows. This would seem a little anticlimactic and less than a masterful PR stroke to truck it rather than sailing it. Would they be shipping it overland because that's cheaper than hiring a delivery? Or they believe it will arrive in better condition for the shows that way? Or something else altogether? Just curious about marketing.... Bill" Maybe just faster. From pgslo@juno.com Sat Jun 9 13:07:48 2001 From: pgslo@juno.com (pgslo@juno.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 10:07:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Nordhavn 40 Stabilizer Systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010609.145306.-283919.5.pgslo@juno.com> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:15:20 EDT NorthSea48@aol.com writes: > > At any rate, one of the Naiad actuator pistons bent and broke on his > trip up > from California. He mentioned that the pistons were considerably > smaller on > the Naiads than he had seen on Wesmars or Tracs Which model of Naiads? The new #1020 mini Naiads (Naiad Lights?) do have smaller pistons and a less robust actuator system. That is the reason the #1020 sell for around $17K compared to the traditional Naiads at $30K. The #1020 system is NOT recommended for boats over about 35,000 lbs. displacement. The Nordhavn 40 is listed at 50,000 lbs displacement. We installed one of the first #1020 systems produced on a new 33,000 lb., Willard 40 last year and the boat debuted at the 1999 Ft. Myers Trawler Fest. After some initial technical glitches, the system was sorted out and works very well with no further problems with over 500 hours on the system. The green hulled Willard 40 "Doxy" operates out of New Jersey from Nova Scotia to Florida. Patrick Gerety Willard Marine www.willardmarine.com mailto: trawlers@willardmarine.com From Kanani@compuserve.com Sat Jun 9 20:30:12 2001 From: Kanani@compuserve.com (Michael D. Rowe) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:30:12 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106092030_MC3-D537-598D@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:Thataway@aol.com >For example the eye lens and probably the reproductive organs have a cumulative effect of microwave energy.< Microwaves are not ionizing radiation. So while they might cause damage from heating extra-sensitive tissues, they will not cause inheritable genetic damage. Michael Rowe, Ph.D. Environmental Health From cashay@earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 20:45:23 2001 From: cashay@earthlink.net (Chuck Hayden) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:45:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010609100246.00a110e0@pop.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <024601c0f146$a5cdb320$014b323f@chuck> I bought a set today at the Toys-R-Us in Myrtle Beach, SC. They work great for an intercom. Try calling the stores near you or the on in Myrtle Beach. They had several more. $19.95 for two. Requires one 9 volt battery per headset, not included. Chuck Hayden Murrells Inlet, SC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Burrows" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Re: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise > Steve: > > Have you tried the Aviator 500 headset walkie talkies that were the subject > of a great discussion earlier this year? They are full duplex so you will > still hear wind noise but the noise will not hold open the mike like the > voice operated ones do. In other words you can talk over the noise. > > Also I would like to ask the list if anybody has a source. F A O Swartz and > Amazon/ToysRUs both have had them on backorder for quite a while but I > called DSI the importer and they don't have a clue. Did anyone find them in > a store? > > > Frank Burrows 1979 43' Viking MY Piney Narrows Marina Chesapeake Bay > From Thataway@aol.com Sat Jun 9 22:30:40 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:30:40 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar Hazard at the dock Message-ID: With all due respect to Michael Rowe Ph.D., who respondes to my: >>For example the eye lens and probably the reproductive organs have a cumulative effect of microwave energy.< < With: >Microwaves are not ionizing radiation. So while they might cause damage from heating extra-sensitive tissues, they will not cause inheritable genetic damage. < I respond: In fact termal and microwave energy have been know to cause somatic and tetrogenic dammage in animals and also well documented in both male sperm and female ova--this somatic and tetrogenic change can cause birth defects (which are different than genetic dammage). My response to Mike is would you let your wife or daughter sit within three feet of a 4 K W recreational Radar? I think not. There also is danger in utero of somatic or tetragenic abnormality due to microwave energy. As you well know pregnant women are advised to not smoke, drink coffee or alcholo or take many drugs--microwave radiation is far more possiably harmful than many of these agents. As a physician it is my responsability to err on the side of safety. With regards, Bob Austin M D From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Sun Jun 10 01:56:59 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:56:59 -0700 Subject: TWL: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A33FDF@BCMAIL1> To all list members John Tones and Thomas P. Riggs have diametrically opposite experiences with the same company. I won't try to refute Mr. Riggs statement since there have been a few glitches in our customer service communication. Corporate mergers sometimes do produce problems, and Xantrex is no exception. However; I would like to refute his conclusion that the company is no longer staffed by people who care about customer service. I for one do, as does my bosses right up to the GM in charge. John Tones contacted me by email and we got his issues resolved in short order. I have sent a private email to Mr. Thomas Riggs requesting that he contact me directly so that I may attempt to assist him. Should any of you encounter difficulty in reaching the right person at Xantrex regarding any matter please feel free to contact me directly by phone, email or fax. I will see what I can do to set things right. Sorry Georgs; don't mean for this to sound commercial. regards Arild Jensen Marine Field Applications Engineer Mobile Markets Xantrex Technology Inc. Email: arild.jensen@xantrex.com website:www.xantrex.com Toll Free 1-800-670-0707 Fax:604-420-1591 cell 604 671 8346 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From Nunas@pacific.net.sg Sun Jun 10 04:29:01 2001 From: Nunas@pacific.net.sg (AKAMA) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 16:29:01 +0800 Subject: TWL: RE: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yup. We have some very old, full duplex units that are designed for motorcycles. They use ear buds, one as a bone microphone (in the ear) and one as a speaker (in the other ear). We've looked in vain to find replacements at reasonable cost for these aging beauties, which I keep patching (the earphone wire breaks and the volume control gets scratchy). They are so good that one person can wear them in the engine room and the other on the bridge and still communicate (admittedly that amount of noise does come through somewhat though). Lately, searching through a Radio Shack catalogue, I found some personal wireless units that have the same earphone/bone-microphone set-up. I intend to buy a pair when next stateside. They are not full duplex (they are VOX), but should do the trick. We tried the Radio Shack Space Commander headset (excellent value and full duplex), but with its boom microphone it is not good in high noise environments. Maurice & Louise-Ann Nunas KK 48 Whaleback #2 Ponggol Marina, Singapore -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Steve Darden Sent: June 9, 2001 3:10 PM To: TWL Post Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise Dear List, We've tested 3 different types of short range radios aboard Adagio - for the purpose of communicating from one part of the boat to another. E.g., when coral piloting and one of us may be up the mast. All work pretty with less than 5kn of wind across the deck, but in the 'real world' the wind noise pretty much makes the comm useless. Our current favorite radios are the Motorola T6310 units. Has anyone come across a hands-free headset that will tolerate the wind? Many thanks, Steve Darden s/v Adagio GPO 2046 Hobart, TAS 7001 Australia 0415/782-305 http://www.adagiomarine.com From Nunas@pacific.net.sg Sun Jun 10 04:29:08 2001 From: Nunas@pacific.net.sg (AKAMA) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 16:29:08 +0800 Subject: TWL: RE: Oil for what its worth In-Reply-To: <122.685d4.285244a0@aol.com> Message-ID: Nonsense. With a bypass filter and AmsOil (I assume that is what you meant; but it does not matter what brand anyway), there is no need to change engine oil every 100 hours. I was an AmsOil dealer for years and we had customers with bypass filtration (similar to the Gulf Coast Filter, but using a proprietary filter element) that did not change their synthetic oil at all. They merely took samples of the oil at about the same interval as when they would have changed and tested them in a portable oil analyzer. Every few months they would pull a sample and send it to a lab for analysis (a few months in an over the road truck is way more engine time than some of us put on our trawlers in years). I never heard of any customer having any problem with this routine. We did have on file a testimonial from one customer who changed the oil in his over the road diesel truck after 100,000 miles because he had to do a teardown (unrelated to the oil). The engine looked like new inside. He put in new oil, but probably could have re-used the existing oil for another 100,000 miles. The key to this approach is rigorously testing your oil at intervals. Of course, it can't hurt to change oil every 100 hours, but do you really want the bother and the cost? Now, if you are going to do that, IMHO, save your money. Buy any reputable oil in the weight and specification recommended by the manufacturer for your engine. Also, get him to put it together with your preferred oil, NOT AmsOil, for two reasons. First, you want your rings to seat; Amsoil has too much lubricity for this to happen quickly There are cases on record where engines were torn down after running for long periods and one could still see the home marks on the walls. In the racing world, they sometimes blow a bit of grit into the running engine, then change the oil several times to overcome this. Another suggestion would be to stick to one brand and type; although there should not be problems, there are subtle differences in the additive packages that can affect seal swell. Sticking with one oil eliminates this possibility (I only ever had one customer with that problem and it was in a very old Honda; he changed back to petroleum oil and started burning some oil.) I'm no longer an AmsOil dealer and do not necessarily endorse AmsOil over any other brand of synthetic oil. Just reporting g on my experience...our results may differ... M Maurice & Louise-Ann Nunas KK 48 Whaleback #2 Ponggol Marina, Singapore -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of LLadd68321@aol.com I am currently undergoing a major engine repair. The repair is being done by a ex Volvo heavy diesel instructor and on the road trouble shooter and mechanic. He rebuilds engine for Volvo in the winter. Two things he is adamant about is the use of synthetic oil for diesels,and using diesel antifreeze in diesels engines. He has choosen to use Ams Oil in all his engines and will put that in my engine when it gets put back together. I already have a bypass oil filter, but per his instructions will change oil ever 100 hours. Even thought I carry enough oil for 2 oil changes aboard I think I will continue to use Rotella 15w40 when the time comes. Not because I like it better but because it is much easier to find when on the move. If I were in one location I am sure I would stick with Ams Oil. If you check the archives Captn Wil would agree with synthetic. From rcrogers@annapolis.net Sun Jun 10 06:40:01 2001 From: rcrogers@annapolis.net (Ron Rogers) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 06:40:01 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Oil for what its worth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003001c0f199$b900c6a0$5a0418ce@ronthfp1w0rg6> Maurice, When using a bypass (depth) oil filter, how do you obtain valid oil test results? I would think that such a filter would capture metallic particles, for example. Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD ----- Original Message ----- > Nonsense. With a bypass filter and AmsOil (I assume that is what you meant; > but it does not matter what brand anyway), there is no need to change engine > oil every 100 hours. From cmangin@email.msn.com Sun Jun 10 08:27:54 2001 From: cmangin@email.msn.com (Chris Mangin) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:27:54 -0400 Subject: TWL: Need source for mesh fabric In-Reply-To: <20010606040016.2BC192624D@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <000201c0f1a9$8fcfc820$0ae63d3f@oemcomputer> All: We want to make a storage hammock for PFDs, to hang under our hardtop. I believe the best fabric would be a mesh called polyportex (as illustrated in a few entries in the West Marine catalog)... but we need a source for a large enough piece, so we can sew to fit. Can anyone point us to a good retailer for polyportex or similar mesh fabric? Cheers, -Chris (RANGER, an Express Trawlerette from Dania Beach, FL) From ctlow@boatdocking.com Sun Jun 10 08:05:55 2001 From: ctlow@boatdocking.com (Charles T. Low) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:05:55 -0400 Subject: TWL: The Fuel Evolution In-Reply-To: <20010610040012.D886F26244@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010610080320.00a19450@mail.superaje.com> Why would H2 engines be quiet? (Sorry if I missed something early on.) Gas engines make noise, with or without added ethanol, so do diesels, I think so does natural gas and propane (do they?), and this whether reciprocating or turbine. How do hydrogen engines work? Thanks. Charles ==== Charles T. Low, author of Boat Docking ======== From ctlow@boatdocking.com Sun Jun 10 09:30:42 2001 From: ctlow@boatdocking.com (Charles T. Low) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:30:42 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar Hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <20010610040012.D886F26244@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010610092746.00a0c6c0@mail.superaje.com> Bob, >I respond: In fact termal and microwave energy have been know to cause >somatic and tetrogenic dammage in animals and also well documented in both >male sperm and female ova--this somatic and tetrogenic change can cause birth >defects (which are different than genetic dammage). Bob Austin M D Fascinating. Can you provide any scientific references for those with a deeper interest? Charles (MD, too) ==== Charles T. Low, author of Boat Docking ======== From hbrink@earthlink.net Sun Jun 10 10:46:48 2001 From: hbrink@earthlink.net (Harold R. Brink, PE) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:46:48 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #343/specific fuel consumption In-Reply-To: <20010610040012.D886F26244@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: As a truck guy I recall that one should operate in the trough/valley of the specific fuel consumption curve, as much as possible. Seems it would make sense for boats too, if the extreme cases can be coped with adequately. Any comments? From almiller@n-jcenter.com Sun Jun 10 11:27:50 2001 From: almiller@n-jcenter.com (Dr. Al Miller) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:27:50 -0400 Subject: TWL: TWL Oil, Fuel, TBN, and other stuff Message-ID: <009a01c0f1c1$e97adfa0$64c935d8@oemcomputer> Based on CaptnWil recommending synthetic oil and his endorsement of Mobil Delvac 1, I spent some time speaking with engineers and industry experts -- everyone I spoke with said that Mobil Delvac 1 was probably the best marine diesel engine oil that money could buy. When I spoke with Mobil, they referred me to the following web site which gave the following test characteristics for Mobil Delvac 1 http://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/gis/MobilPDS.nsf/938dd40f165c0309862566660070e8 7c/022b5cb5b179a4eb8525670b0059271d?OpenDocument Typical Characteristics Test Method Mobil Delvac 1 SHC SAE Grade - 5W-40 Viscosity cSt at 40 oC D445 87.9 Viscosity cSt at 100 oC D445 14.5 CCS Viscosity, Poise @ -25 oC D5293 31.7 MRV Viscosity, Poise/PA @ -30 oC D4684 94/<35 Viscosity Index D2270 172 Sulfated Ash,% D874 1.8 Total Base Number D2896 15.9 Pour Point, oC D97 <-54 Flash Point, oC D92 226 I am not sure what all of the these numbers mean -- however, an engineer at Mobil told me that Mobil Tri-Synthetic Motor Oils are very similar in test results. He recommended Mobil Tri-Synthetic 15W-50 for my American Diesel 6N140. He said that I could safely double the oil change interval suggested by the engine manufacturer. I haven't changed from using a straight 40 weight oil recommended by Bob Smith -- but I would appreciate hearing comments by those on the list that are more expert in this area. Thanks Al Palm Coast, Florida Pacific Trawler 37 From Thataway@aol.com Sun Jun 10 12:42:08 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:42:08 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar Hazard at the dock Message-ID: <71.e27b2f2.2854fd60@aol.com> Charles Low (M D) asks: I have responded to Charles with a rather lengthy E mail--Referring to over 450 articles from WHO section on EMF, and over 500 other articles which show effects from disruption of DNA structure, to increased incidents of cancer and birth defects due to high EMF levels. U S military experiments (HARP project) and intellegence/security studies with microwaves show both increased incidence of cancer and behavioral abnormalities--including in weapons technology--as well as crowd control etc. There are a number of groups studying effects of EMF--some fringe and questionable, but some very valid scientists. There are a lot of unknowns. Err on the side of safety. Bob Austin From deering@ak.net Sun Jun 10 13:03:43 2001 From: deering@ak.net (Robert Deering) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:03:43 -0800 Subject: TWL: The Fuel Evolution In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010610080320.00a19450@mail.superaje.com> Message-ID: <000001c0f1cf$4de6ceb0$d512ed18@deer1> "How do hydrogen engines work?" Charles, Good question about hydrogen engines. One way of using hydrogen as a fuel would be in some sort of an internal combustion engine which mixed the H2 with O2 and created an explosion (that's how the space shuttle is fueled) which would push pistons and stuff . The resulting exhaust would be H2O. It would be noisy and have mechanical fatigue and wear issues like any other ICE. But what's being discussed here is a hydrogen powered fuel cell which chemically combines hydrogen to oxygen, producing electrical current rather than mechanical motion. Essentially it works like a battery that burns fuel. The only noise associated with it would be a few fans and pumps. The electricity would be used to drive a quiet electric motor attached to a shaft and prop (or jet or whatever). The efficiency of fuel cells burning methanol are currently almost double that of gasoline engines. The big challenge that I see is in the fuel. Pure hydrogen is difficult to produce and store so fuels that are "hydrogen-rich", with readily available hydrogen atoms are used. The fuel cell system then has two stages, the first stage (called a reformer) liberates the hydrogen from the carrier fuel, then the second stage combines it with O2 to create water. The problem is that diesel is not very hydrogen-rich. The most commonly used fuels are methanol, propane, and natural gas. All of those fuels are very flammable and have storage or corrosion issues. And while the technology will probably be viable for boats in 10 or 15 years, it's going to be a while longer before out of the way third-world locations make the fuel supply transition, so you might be restricted to cruising in the developed world. Not an issue if you mainly cruise the ICW. Probably a longer answer than you were looking for, but you hit on one of my favorite topics. Here's a good web site that gives a primer on the subject if you're interested. http://216.51.18.233/index_e.html Bob Deering Juneau Alaska From Thataway@aol.com Sun Jun 10 13:10:35 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:10:35 EDT Subject: TWL: Fuel cells and Hydrogen Message-ID: <8.1599037c.2855040b@aol.com> This is an excerpt from the Fuel Cell 2000's homepage: <> On of the best aspects of this system is that hydrogen can be manufactured by hydroelectric power (splitting the hydrogen out of water) and transported. Then the hydrogen gas is placed into a tank and utilized as a fuel--which is basically non polluting--and in the case of a boat--forget the last paragraph above--provides electricity to power an electric motor or provide power to run systems on the boat. However--Hydrogen gas is very explosive! How much Hydrogen gas will you have to store to cross the Atlantic Ocean? Actually the boat would be quiet, but not silent under power--there would be noise and vibration from the shaft turning the prop. In a car--the fantasy is that while you go to the grocery store you plug in and regenerate some hydrogen--perhaps at home the same way. Certainly this has been only marginally successful with electric vehicles. The problem still is where do you get the electric power? Solar, Wind, Hyrdo or nuclear--in a fossil fuel free world? Bob Austin From e16@telus.net Sun Jun 10 14:44:56 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:44:56 -0700 Subject: TWL: Bedding Compound & Teak Plugs Message-ID: When I moved 4 stanchions several weeks ago, I first laid down a thick pad of bedding compound. In my earlier experiences with the evil ooze, I tried to remove the excess immediately and generally made a mess of it. This time, I decided to let the squeeze-out dry, and afterwards cut it off neatly with a knife. It set nicely while I was away on a long trip. Unfortunately, it also stuck very well even where there was no pressure on it. ("Next time", I will wax or tape the adjacent surfaces.) I have cut away the bulges, but a thin layer is still adhering to both varnished cap rail and fibreglass deck. Suggestions for removal would be most appreciated. In an earlier post I described my technique for making odd-size short wooden dowels and plugs (drill a hole of the required size in a piece of steel about 1/8" thick, clamp the steel in a vise, and hammer square or octagon "sticks" through the hole). I just did a bunch using some teak scraps from an old piece of furniture. They have been in a dry basement for several years, and I was surprised at how brittle the wood had become. The technique still worked, but I got a better product when I used a chisel to split the sticks off the main piece so that they followed the grain as opposed to sawing them which cuts across the grain, and by then using a knife to take off the corners. I was making 3/16" d plugs, and anything up to a 1/4" could be hammered through successfully, but I limited the lengths to about 3". For larger diameters, I really like Lee Valley's cutters to make tapered plugs using a drill press. (A portable drill would also work in a steady hand.) The tapered plug guarantees a snug fit at the opening. The cutters are available in sets or individual sizes, with shipping from both Canadian and US sources. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32320&category=1,180,42288&ccurr ency=2&SID= Cheers, Garrett From e16@telus.net Sun Jun 10 14:50:48 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:50:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: Silent Running Message-ID: snip> Why would H2 engines be quiet? Hi Charles Fuel cell "engines" are quiet because they're not engines, they're electric motors powered by the fuel cells. If H2 is used to power an internal combustion engine, such as the one Ford will soon introduce for trucks, then the sound would probably be no less than for a conventional gasoline engine. Still quieter than a diesel, however. Cheers, Garrett From cculotta@iamerica.net Sun Jun 10 20:40:48 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:40:48 -0500 Subject: TWL: Rain/Allison Message-ID: <3B24138F.59B32458@iamerica.net> Here in Patterson we have had almost 20 inches of rain. Not as bad as Houston and , fortunately, it has now stopped. We hope for the night at least.. To give the pumps a chance to catch up. This whole area, including the river, is within a ring levy and is under pump for all rain The Bayou Teche on which we live came up just over our deck , about 2 inches, this afternoon. Right now there is an alligator who has taken up residence on the deck just outside our bedroom window. Just a baby only abt 5 ft. CCC and Pat-- Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From flyjbaker624@aol.com Sun Jun 10 20:52:28 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:52:28 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: H2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What about the explosion hazard. Hydrogen is quite volatile. From Awgertoo@aol.com Sun Jun 10 20:56:35 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:56:35 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar Hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/10/01 12:42:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Thataway@aol.com writes: << have responded to Charles with a rather lengthy E mail--Referring to over 450 articles from WHO section on EMF, and over 500 other articles which show effects from disruption of DNA structure, to increased incidents of cancer and birth defects due to high EMF levels. >> Reminds me of that old Saturday Nite Live routine about Three Mile Island, when they said it was like getting a chest Xray over, and over and over......... I believe it--Michael From Awgertoo@aol.com Sun Jun 10 21:12:43 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:12:43 EDT Subject: TWL: Radar Hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2f.164b7ac8.2855750b@aol.com> In a message dated 6/10/01 9:05:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Thataway writes: << We still are dodging bullets! Bob-- It appears to me that the only guys who are arguing this point are those who are sitting directly behind, under and/or in front of their radar antennaes. Perhaps those radar transmissions also cause the disease of DENIAL?? Best--Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Sun Jun 10 21:42:34 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:42:34 -0400 Subject: TWL: Radar Hazard at the dock In-Reply-To: <2f.164b7ac8.2855750b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010610214234.007ac720@earthlink.net> > >It appears to me that the only guys who are arguing this point are those who >are sitting directly behind, under and/or in front of their radar antennaes. > Perhaps those radar transmissions also cause the disease of DENIAL?? > >Best--Michael Oritt ============================================================== The ones sitting directly under don't have a problem, alot of the others do........ . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From rcsmith@garrett-smith.com Sun Jun 10 23:50:10 2001 From: rcsmith@garrett-smith.com (R C Smith Jr) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:50:10 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fw: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology In-Reply-To: <006c01c0f0ff$e8352e60$1bcdeed0@riggs> Message-ID: I have also gotten quick responses from Heart recently. Bob _________________________ M/Y Susan Marie Hatteras 58 LRC Chesapeake Bay > From: "Thomas P. Riggs" > Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 09:19:05 -0700 > To: > Subject: TWL: Fw: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology > > Be aware of technical glitches in their equipment and > no apparent desire to take care of folks at this time. From Nunas@pacific.net.sg Mon Jun 11 01:51:54 2001 From: Nunas@pacific.net.sg (AKAMA) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:51:54 +0800 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: RE: Oil for what its worth In-Reply-To: <003001c0f199$b900c6a0$5a0418ce@ronthfp1w0rg6> Message-ID: Ron, Yes, the filter captures nearly everything. But that's the whole point. The samples are taken from the sump in the normal manner. You can find quite a treasure trove of stuff on this in the archives, as Will Andrews did quite a bit of testing and reporting. M Maurice & Louise-Ann Nunas KK 48 Whaleback #2 Ponggol Marina, Singapore -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Ron Rogers Sent: June 10, 2001 6:40 PM To: AKAMA; trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Oil for what its worth Maurice, When using a bypass (depth) oil filter, how do you obtain valid oil test results? I would think that such a filter would capture metallic particles, for example. Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD ----- Original Message ----- > Nonsense. With a bypass filter and AmsOil (I assume that is what you meant; > but it does not matter what brand anyway), there is no need to change engine > oil every 100 hours. From alexh@olypen.com Mon Jun 11 02:14:07 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:14:07 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: H2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00e501c0f23d$cc4b7d00$4b46433f@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: > What about the explosion hazard. Hydrogen is quite volatile. > Hi John, It's true that hydrogen is quite flammable or even explosive under the right circumstances. OTOH: H2 is lighter than air so it is far less likely to accumulate the way propane or gasoline fumes do. I have seen demonstrations (on the PBS series "Nova") of a high pressure H2 container being shot with a high powered rifle - The H2 hissed out and dissipated with no fire or explosion. When the same test was performed on a gas can the results were more, shall we say, spectacular. The same episode showed what they described as a "sintered metal sponge" container for H2 that was safer yet than the ordinary high pressure tank. The drawback to the sintered metal method (If memory serves - I saw this about twenty years ago) was that it was rather slow to refill. More recently I saw a show on either Discovery or History about the Hindenburg disaster. The program put forth the argument that all the hype about that accident being caused by the H2 flotation used on the German dirigible was actually propaganda and that the results would have been pretty much the same if Hindenburg had been filled with Helium. I once inflated a balloon with H2 and set a match to it. The result was a pretty mellow "pop" and a blue fireball not much bigger than the balloon itself. This doesn't make me an expert, but I always wondered after that why the Hindenburg didn't look more like my balloon and less like a frame building burning. Having said this, I fully expect some TWListee to explain this and knock my argument into a cocked hat. IMHO: There probably is some fire/explosion hazard with H2 but it's almost certainly less than with gasoline or propane. OTOH: Many proposed fuel cell systems include a reformer stage to generate H2 from gasoline or methanol [Methanol has a lot in common with gasoline from a fire hazard point of view]. Volatilely yours, Alex From alexh@olypen.com Mon Jun 11 03:35:28 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 00:35:28 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: TWL Oil, Fuel, TBN, and other stuff Message-ID: <01ad01c0f249$168dcca0$4b46433f@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Al Miller" > an engineer at > Mobil told me that Mobil Tri-Synthetic Motor Oils are very similar in test > results. He recommended Mobil Tri-Synthetic 15W-50 for my American Diesel > 6N140. He said that I could safely double the oil change interval suggested > by the engine manufacturer. > Hi Al, I find the advice given you by the Mobil Engineer to be suspect. While the Tri-Synthetic Mobil 1 may work just fine in a Lehman or American Diesel engine it is apparent from reading the spec sheet that this oil is not primarily intended for diesel service. Why is it apparent? This is a new formulation and it meets the latest API "S" specs but it only meets API CF which is several years old. Also, note that the proper name for this product line is "Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic series". "Mobil 1" has always been an automotive oil not a "heavy duty" oil. Mobil's HD synthetic engine oil is called "Delvac 1". Further, unless he specifically addressed the single vs. multigrade issue for Lehmans and American Diesels one must assume that he hasn't considered those issues. BTW: While at the Poulsbo WM Trawler Fest I had a brief chat with a guy from Lugger about our recent questions around why Lehmans want single grade oil. He felt that it was probably related to piston ring clearances and valve guide clearances. That is, and engine with looser clearances would need a heavier oil to make up for that looseness. I'm not sure that I buy that argument but I pass it along as another data point. Suspiciously yours, Alex From Nswift@aol.com Mon Jun 11 06:04:05 2001 From: Nswift@aol.com (Nswift@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:04:05 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Rugs Message-ID: <21.ce7523c.2855f195@aol.com> We have a beautiful Nova Scotia Trawler with teak and holly floors. We like to have throw rugs on the floor for comfort and protection of the floors. We have tried many types. None seem to work. The most practical are the waffle patterned rubber-based rugs sold at hardware stores. Mesh rugs scratch the floors. Others slip and could prove dangerous. The ones with the rubberized backing in just a short time start to deteriorate and then either powder or stick to the floor and damage the finish. HELP! We have been on a 5 year search for a throw rug that won't slip and won't damage our beautiful floor. Do we have an impossible dream? From Ccornishsr@aol.com Mon Jun 11 06:48:22 2001 From: Ccornishsr@aol.com (Ccornishsr@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:48:22 EDT Subject: TWL: Garmin 182 BlueCharts v. Interphase or Si-tex C-MAP NT Message-ID: <8f.bb84598.2855fbf6@aol.com> Has anyone seen "live and in action" the new BlueCharts for the Garmin 182, etc? If so, here are my questions: 1. Are BlueCharts more like navionics or more like C-MAP NT? 2. How's the screen visualization on a nice sunny day? Can you see the chart details on a Garmin 182 screen? I'm currently "shopping" for a WAAS GPS chartplotter under $800 for my Albin 27' hardtop family cruiser. With new models & new charting on the market almost monthly, my "choice" keeps changing. At the moment, I'm leaning toward CMAP NT machines - Interphase Chart Master 7MX (#1 choice) or Si-tex Neptune NT iGPS. But, I would like to know if BlueCharts are "as advertised" - all the details in my Florida West Coast chart book, for example. Calvin Albin 27' "Blue Crab" From brooksd2@hotmail.com Mon Jun 11 09:00:24 2001 From: brooksd2@hotmail.com (David Brooks) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:00:24 -0400 Subject: TWL: Heart Interface/Xantrex Technology Message-ID: I have had experience with Xantrex, exceptional response from Arild Jensen, didn't want to post but anybody that is having problems with the same company needs to know that they do have employees that care. My purchase of a 11 yr old Battery Monitor without information to install was doable due to Arild's input. I bought an old Freedom 2500 and company policy probably due to liability couldn't tell me how to wire into system on an as needed basis(I have a distrust of totally automated systems). They did email me that they would check my wiring diagrams to make sure it is feasible. Their manual states you can't backfeed the unit or it will burn up. I solved the problem with manual breakers now all I have to do is draw up the diagram, not for Xantrex, but to keep my crs from burning up the unit. Two distinct problems but one involving company product and one of an acquired electronics company, good response on both. Frugally yours, David Brooks M/V Silver Belle _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Jerrysail@aol.com Mon Jun 11 09:58:41 2001 From: Jerrysail@aol.com (Jerrysail@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:58:41 EDT Subject: TWL: Oil pressure switch Message-ID: Help. The schematic for my Ford Liehman shows three oil related senders/switches. The one in series with the start button and the auxiliary solenoid is drawn as a normally open switch. Since no oil pressure exists prior to pushing the start button I am confused as to the function of this switch. It is entitled "OIL PRESSURE SWITCH." If you can describe it's function please do it today because I will sign off the list tonight. We are leaving tomorrow for the small loop and wont return for three months. BIG GRIN....... Jerry O'Neill GB 32 ADVENTURE Annapolis Md. From schooleymike@pe.net Sun Jun 10 22:04:48 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:04:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: <3B0CFAA2.43C33EE7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Doug Hoople wrote, "Careful with the gels (and the AGMs, which are essentially the same as gels). You can kill them just by looking sideways at them." I am sorry, but I must take exception to this statement. I'll grant you that there are some similarities between AMG and Gel, but there are also many very significant differences. Since they are both valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries, they are both vulnerable to over charging, but AGM are much more tolerant of vibration, shock, extremely low temperatures and high charge and discharge rates. They also have a higher charge/discharge efficiency and a much lower self discharge rate. "More gels (and AGMs) die young from folks who buy them on the promise of zero maintenance and high reliability and then stop paying attention." Mostly AGM batteries are destroyed by users who don't buy a proper charging system, or don't correctly adjust the profile of the charging system when they switch from flooded or gel cell to AGM. They are also killed by people who try to equalize them. Most flooded cell batteries are killed by a lack of maintenance or lack of periodic charging. "For example, if you have a stock alternator/regulator onboard, then by running your engines for long periods, you'll overcharge your batteries. Not a problem with lead-acids, just add water. With gels though, you boil the electrolyte and the resulting gases escape through the relief valves. Eventually, they boil dry." True. AGM batteries require a quality voltage regulator. "That said, there are battery gurus out there who've got the whole thing figured out and are running banks of gels that are more than 10 years old." Gels were good for some applications in their day, however AGM batteries provide all the features of Gels and fewer of the disadvantages. I know of no application where Gels are superior to AGM. When equipped with a quality and appropriate charging system AGM batteries can provide double the life of low cost flooded cell batteries and they are as close as one can get to maintenance free. Sincerely; Mike Schooley Trailerable Trawler Dreamer Retread rocket scientist From scaramouche@tvo.org Mon Jun 11 10:39:05 2001 From: scaramouche@tvo.org (George Geist) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:39:05 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Rugs In-Reply-To: <21.ce7523c.2855f195@aol.com> Message-ID: Nswift@aol.com writes: >Do we have an impossible dream? Yes! An occassional appplication of teak oil will preserve your wood just fine. For those evenings where you lite the fire (you do have a fireplace?) a warm wooly scatterug wii keep you r tootsys cozy. The other good habit is to kick of the deck shoes befrore you enter the cabin. George of Scaramouche, wannabe trawler. From LRZeitlin@aol.com Mon Jun 11 10:44:56 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:44:56 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: radars and radar ranges. Message-ID: <70.b7f62d8.28563368@aol.com> In a message dated 6/8/01 4:04:47 AM, Garrett writes: << When I was on a destroyer last year I was told that its main array is so powerful that it kills birds that get too close. Being gull-ible (sorry) I never questioned the statement, but even if it was an exaggeration, the message is clear. >> The operator of the megawatt Millstone radar at Hanscomb Field in Massachusetts claimed that if he targeted a wild goose flying over, he could cook it sufficiently well for a Thanksgiving dinner before it hit the ground. Of course he never explaned how the microwave radiation would pluck the feathers and make giblet gravy. This particular radar was, of course, more powerful than those that found on trawlers. It was the one that bounced radar signals off the moon in the 50's. Larry Zeitlin From Mrmoo5@aol.com Mon Jun 11 10:55:59 2001 From: Mrmoo5@aol.com (Mrmoo5@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:55:59 EDT Subject: TWL: Garmin 182 BlueCharts v. Interphase or Si-tex C-MAP NT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8.15a50e27.285635ff@aol.com> We are looking at the not yet delivered, (this week-end)Garmin GPSMAP 176C 16 color chart plotter. The Garmin proprietary chip covers a lot more area than any of the others on the market. It is WAAS enabled, portable, readable in bright sunlight,and the price is right. Give it a look see. You will find it verrry interesting. Usual disclaimers apply. Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA From doughoople@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 03:14:09 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:14:09 +0100 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B246FC1.F02CB92A@earthlink.net> Michael, I won't split hairs on the technical differences between gels and AGMs. You've made the case pretty well. My point was that gels and AGMs share the same primary disadvantage, and that maintenance-free doesn't imply carefree. It's exactly because they're maintenance-free that you have to care for them that much more carefully. To say that a gel or an AGM CAN live to a ripe old age doesn't say that it WILL. It takes knowledge of charging system at a fairly nuanced level. For example, if your charger or regulator is slightly mis-calibrated, you can have it set just right and still get it wrong. Or if you've wired your alternator's voltage sensor to anything other than the battery post, or you haven't taken your engine room temps into account. And let's say you've done everything perfectly, but then the alternator fails and starts putting out at full strength until you've shut down your engines. Or somebody mistakenly hits the equalize button and your charget lets it happen. In these cases, you can recover your lead-acid battery, but you can't recover either your.gel or your AGM, and that's where there's no difference between a gel and an AGM. The maintenance schedule for lead-acids is dead simple 1) keep them topped up with distilled water, 2) keep them charged. You can overcharge them, you can equalize them, doesn't matter. Just top them up and they'll be fine. You even know by inspection when you're overcharging them (your water level is always low), and when one of your cells is in trouble (its water level is different from the rest of the cells). If you misuse your gel or AGM, it won't last much longer than that cheap starting battery, and all the discussion of the differences between gel and AGM is so much idle chatter. I'm sure that, as you say, an AGM will outperform a gel. But you have to give them the right environment to keep them around long enough to compare, and I think my other point was that it's easier said than done. You don't buy a gel or an AGM if you want to just set it and forget it. Thanks. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From LRZeitlin@aol.com Mon Jun 11 11:32:43 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:32:43 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #342 Message-ID: <49.c698689.28563e9b@aol.com> In a message dated 6/9/01 4:03:50 AM, Courtenay writes: << By the way, where did the .06 gal/hp/hr figure come from? >> If you examine the engine performance curve charts usually provided by engine manufacturers, you will see a specific fuel consumption curve. This depicts the grams or lbs. of fuel consumed by the engine per hp. per hour. Most marine diesels reach their lowest fuel consumption at a mid power point about halfway between idling and full throttle, usually slightly above the maximum torque point. Typical engines found on trawlers usually consume 180 grams of fuel per horsepower per hour. High performance engines usually consume more, stationary power plant engines usually less. This is about .4 lbs of fuel per hp per hr. With diesel fuel weighing about 7.2 lbs per gallon, the "best case" lowest fuel consumption works out to 0.0556 gal/hp/hr. Manufacturers figures are generally given for bare engines without deducting power consumed by alternators, pumps, etc. Transmission losses are excluded as well. Thus the actual power available for pushing the boat is lower and the fuel consumption is correspondingly higher. The fuel consumption estimate of .06 gal/hp/hr is 8% higher than the bare engine estimate and accounts for some of those losses. I'm not making this stuff up. See your engine manual for details. Better yet, call your engine manufacturer and as for a specific fuel consumption chart. If you want to use any of these figures in estimating fuel consumption you must remember that they refer to engines fresh from the factory operating under ideal conditions at their best performance point. In the real world your actual fuel consumption will rarely be as good. The .06 gal/hp/hr figure is as good an estimate as any other figure used in marine engineering and serves as a good starting point for trip planning. My own Willard 30 averaged .82 gal/hr at 6 kt. on a 1200 mile trip up the ICW. Calculations showed that my boat needs 13.4 hp to move at that speed. Fuel consumption was .0615 gal/hp/hr, close enough to the .06 figure. Most cruisers keep a fuel cushion of at least 15% to 20% for long voyages. Marine engineering is a relatively mature art. Barring the application of cold fusion to boat propulsion, there appear to be no significant breakthroughs on the horizon. In the trawler domain, as long as we propel chunky displacement hulls through the water with diesel engines, we can expect fuel consumption figures of boats of similar size and weight vary within a range of no more than 20%. There may well be reported exceptions but these can usually be accounted for by favorable winds and currents and/or erroneous distance and speed readings. Larry Zeitlin From LRZeitlin@aol.com Mon Jun 11 11:34:37 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:34:37 EDT Subject: TWL: The "magic" .06 gal/hp/hr estimate Message-ID: <24.14c49082.28563f0d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/9/01 4:03:50 AM, Courtenay writes: << By the way, where did the .06 gal/hp/hr figure come from? >> If you examine the engine performance curve charts usually provided by engine manufacturers, you will see a specific fuel consumption curve. This depicts the grams or lbs. of fuel consumed by the engine per hp. per hour. Most marine diesels reach their lowest fuel consumption at a mid power point about halfway between idling and full throttle, usually slightly above the maximum torque point. Typical engines found on trawlers usually consume 180 grams of fuel per horsepower per hour. High performance engines usually consume more, stationary power plant engines usually less. This is about .4 lbs of fuel per hp per hr. With diesel fuel weighing about 7.2 lbs per gallon, the "best case" lowest fuel consumption works out to 0.0556 gal/hp/hr. Manufacturers figures are generally given for bare engines without deducting power consumed by alternators, pumps, etc. Transmission losses are excluded a s well. Thus the actual power available for pushing the boat is lower and the fuel consumption is correspondingly higher. The fuel consumption estimate of .06 gal/hp/hr is 8% higher than the bare engine estimate and accounts for some of those losses. I'm not making this stuff up. See your engine manual for details. Better yet, call your engine manufacturer and as for a specific fuel consumption chart. If you want to use any of these figures in estimating fuel consumption you must remember that they refer to engines fresh from the factory operating under ideal conditions at their best performance point. In the real world your actual fuel consumption will rarely be as good. The .06 gal/hp/hr figure is as good an estimate as any other figure used in marine engineering and serves as a good starting point for trip planning. My own Willard 30 averaged .82 gal/hr at 6 kt. on a 1200 mile trip up the ICW. Calculations showed that my boat needs 13.4 hp to move at that speed. Fuel consumption was .0615 gal/hp/hr, close enough to the .06 figure. Most cruisers keep a fuel cushion of at least 15% to 20% for long voyages. Marine engineering is a relatively mature art. Barring the application of cold fusion to boat propulsion, there appear to be no significant breakthroughs on the horizon. In the trawler domain, as long as we propel chunky displacement hulls through the water with diesel engines, we can expect fuel consumption figures of boats of similar size and weight vary within a range of no more than 20%. There may well be reported exceptions but these can usually be accounted for by favorable winds and currents and/or erroneous distance and speed readings. Larry Zeitlin From normrose@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 11:28:33 2001 From: normrose@earthlink.net (Norman Rose) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:28:33 -0400 Subject: TWL: Rain/Allison In-Reply-To: <3B24138F.59B32458@iamerica.net> Message-ID: <3B24E3A1.D1A8CBA0@earthlink.net> Hey, Charles....that's what I call real home delivery. Appetizers delivered right to your house!! Glad you & Pat didn't float away. And to think, I had to water our flowers & grass this morning to keep them from burning up. Best wishes. Norm Rose Charles wrote: > > Here in Patterson we have had almost 20 inches of rain. > Not as bad as Houston and , fortunately, it has now stopped. We hope > for the night at least.. To give the pumps a chance to catch up. This > whole area, including the river, is within a ring levy and is under pump > for all rain > The Bayou Teche on which we live came up just over our deck , about 2 > inches, this afternoon. > Right now there is an alligator who has taken up residence on the deck > just outside our bedroom window. Just a baby only abt 5 ft. > CCC and Pat-- > Charles C. Culotta Jr. > Patterson, LA > 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From normrose@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 11:40:39 2001 From: normrose@earthlink.net (Norman Rose) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:40:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: H2 In-Reply-To: <00e501c0f23d$cc4b7d00$4b46433f@gte.net> Message-ID: <3B24E677.C8E87EAB@earthlink.net> Hey, Alex. I think you are right about the H2 in the Hindenburg. If my memory serves me correctly, they finally pegged the cause of the fire to be lightening setting the painted fabric on fire. Seems it burned so quickly it was like a "flash fire." Of course, once it started, the H2 decided to join the party. I really like the idea of a fuel cell driven boat, esp. as opposed to a tank of H2. What temp does H2 turn into a liquid? I don't see how you could carry enough as a gas to have any decent range. Norm Rose Did you know: The cost of raising a medium-size dog to the age of eleven: $6,400 Alex Hirsekorn wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > What about the explosion hazard. Hydrogen is quite volatile. > > > Hi John, > > It's true that hydrogen is quite flammable or even explosive under the right > circumstances. OTOH: H2 is lighter than air so it is far less likely to > accumulate the way propane or gasoline fumes do. > > I have seen demonstrations (on the PBS series "Nova") of a high pressure H2 > container being shot with a high powered rifle - The H2 hissed out and > dissipated with no fire or explosion. When the same test was performed on a > gas can the results were more, shall we say, spectacular. > > The same episode showed what they described as a "sintered metal sponge" > container for H2 that was safer yet than the ordinary high pressure tank. > The drawback to the sintered metal method (If memory serves - I saw this > about twenty years ago) was that it was rather slow to refill. > > More recently I saw a show on either Discovery or History about the > Hindenburg disaster. The program put forth the argument that all the hype > about that accident being caused by the H2 flotation used on the German > dirigible was actually propaganda and that the results would have been > pretty much the same if Hindenburg had been filled with Helium. I once > inflated a balloon with H2 and set a match to it. The result was a pretty > mellow "pop" and a blue fireball not much bigger than the balloon itself. > This doesn't make me an expert, but I always wondered after that why the > Hindenburg didn't look more like my balloon and less like a frame building > burning. Having said this, I fully expect some TWListee to explain this and > knock my argument into a cocked hat. > > IMHO: There probably is some fire/explosion hazard with H2 but it's almost > certainly less than with gasoline or propane. > > OTOH: Many proposed fuel cell systems include a reformer stage to generate > H2 from gasoline or methanol [Methanol has a lot in common with gasoline > from a fire hazard point of view]. > > Volatilely yours, > > Alex From flyjbaker624@aol.com Mon Jun 11 11:58:20 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:58:20 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <28.169b1fdc.2856449c@aol.com> Very nicely said, Doug. That is why I will keep adding water to my 3 yr old wet batteries........ Trawler on, John From LRZeitlin@aol.com Mon Jun 11 11:59:30 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:59:30 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trough/valley of specific fuel consumption curve Message-ID: In a message dated 6/11/01 4:02:31 AM, Harold writes: << As a truck guy I recall that one should operate in the trough/valley of the specific fuel consumption curve, as much as possible. Seems it would make sense for boats too, if the extreme cases can be coped with adequately. Any comments? >> Harold, You are right about fuel consumption. Trucks have gears in their transmissions that let you keep the engine speed near its most efficient point. Usually the lowest specific fuel consumption is near the point of maximum torque so with the right gear you have the best of both worlds, low consumption and maximum pulling power. Boats using a fixed pitch prop usually choose a prop to provide hull speed at 80 to 90% of engine rpm, generally well above the point of lowest specific fuel consumption. This makes a good case for controllable pitch props to achieve maximum range. Unfortunately the price differential between a CPP and a fixed prop is so great that most of us will never see a penny of fuel savings in a lifetime of boating. Now for a circumnavigator it may be a different story. Larry Zeitlin From weidner@waterw.com Mon Jun 11 11:52:46 2001 From: weidner@waterw.com (K2JXW / ARLHS.COM) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:52:46 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture Message-ID: We are interested in buying a used 1986 twin diesel Bayliner 3270, asking price $54,900. A marine surveyor has determined "high moisture level" in the hull foam insulation. Based on this, we will probably offer considerably less to the present owner. My *guess* is that this is due to blistering or something in the hull. However, we have been looking for several months to trade up, and boats this size with diesel are rare. Is it worth our while to look into having the hull fixed? How do they get the moisture out? (It's been almost a year out of water and in drydock, yet the moisture is still there so it doesnt appear that it will just evaporate.) I have been through the Bayliner blister repair before on my present boat (blisters that both the dealer and the factory claim were purely cosmetic and thus not covered by their alleged 5-year hull warranty -- but that's another story...) so I know what is involved. But is there anything else I should be aware of, any other potential pitfalls in a boat with this malady? What can I expect to pay to have the situation corrected and make this a safe and worthwhile buy? And what should I offer to pay for the boat, assuming I have to get the repairs done? 73 Jim, K2JXW, Amateur Radio Lighthouse Society, Member #001 U S Coast Guard Auxiliary -- USCGAUX, Flotilla 06-05-160 Lightship Sailors Association -- LSA http://arlhs.com ================================================= From Dan_Stilwell@mgic.com Mon Jun 11 12:34:55 2001 From: Dan_Stilwell@mgic.com (Dan Stilwell) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:34:55 -0500 Subject: TWL: Antifreeze Message-ID: Can someone explain why a unique antifreeze type is required for diesel engines? Dan Stilwell "Moon Dance", Pilgrim 40 Milwaukee, Wisconsin _______________________________________________________ On June 8, 2001, Lee Ladd wrote: >I am currently undergoing a major engine repair. The repair is >being done by a ex Volvo heavy diesel instructor and on the >road trouble shooter and mechanic. He rebuilds engine for >Volvo in the winter. Two things he is adamant about is the use >of synthetic oil for diesels,and using diesel antifreeze in diesels >engines . . . . From samakijoe@mediaone.net Mon Jun 11 12:41:05 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:41:05 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611124105.007f8d30@pop.pompano.net> At 11:52 AM 06/11/2001 -0400, K2JXW / ARLHS.COM wrote: >We are interested in buying a used 1986 twin diesel Bayliner 3270, asking >price $54,900. > >A marine surveyor has determined "high moisture level" in the hull foam >insulation. >Based on this, we will probably offer considerably less to the present >owner. > >My *guess* is that this is due to blistering or something in the hull. >However, we >have been looking for several months to trade up, and boats this size with >diesel are >rare. Is it worth our while to look into having the hull fixed? How do they >get the >moisture out? (It's been almost a year out of water and in drydock, yet the >moisture Sometime ago I read a story about a guy that wanted to rebuilt an old wooden boat. The boat had major moisture/dry rot problems. In order to dry it out completely, he sent the boat to the Arizona desert for a couple of years. Unless you have fallen in love with this boat I would think twice about it. If you buy it be prepared to spend a lot of $$$ and time to get it right. Give us the name of this surveyor so that someone in your area could use him. He seems to be able to spot the big problems....jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL Mon Jun 11 13:01:48 2001 From: WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL (Whicher Robert E BATH) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:01:48 -0400 Subject: TWL: Updating computer with GPS Message-ID: <4E5A67A1565AD311A62D0008C79137A80243C962@exch.sbath.navy.mil> Quite some time ago someone (I believe CaptnWil) asked about software that one could update Windows clock from GPS. A fellow listee sent information to list and I downloaded a trial version of software. I've misplaced information on this and could not find in archives. Does anyone know of this application? Bob Whicher From jalexander@ticz.com Mon Jun 11 12:11:49 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:11:49 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: TW: hull moisture Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010611121149.007dde80@pop.ticz.com> I am no expert on this subject, but I do know that there is much to know and educate yourself on this subject. For one thing, how was the determination of moisture found, visual inspection, moisture meter? I for one, would under no circumstances buy any boat that definitely had core moisture problems, you would just be asking for trouble and possibly HUGE repair expenses down the road. I have found an excellent web site that offers tremendous insite to problems of this nature and specifically addresses Hull Cores and Blister problems. I would suggest that anyone with questions in this area visit this site and read everything you can. Then make your decision. Here is the link: Jim Alexander From weidner@waterw.com Mon Jun 11 12:54:52 2001 From: weidner@waterw.com (K2JXW / ARLHS.COM) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:54:52 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010611124105.007f8d30@pop.pompano.net> Message-ID: Joe Dellafera responded and asked: Give us the name of this surveyor so that someone in your area . could use him. He seems to be able to spot the big problems....jd ========= Well, it's a brokered boat and the owner hired the surveyor so I have no idea whom he used. The dealer can't say, and the owner won't show me the survey. It was the dealer that told me about the moisture problem. They offered to have their shop do the work, but I want to check out other opinions first. From schooleymike@pe.net Mon Jun 11 00:58:25 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:58:25 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: H2 In-Reply-To: <00e501c0f23d$cc4b7d00$4b46433f@gte.net> Message-ID: Hi All; As a rocket propulsion engineer I have some experience with H2 and the safety issues with handling it and many other explosives. H2 is combustible with O2 in mixture ratios of 5% to 95% by weight. This means that a tank or a balloon filled with pure H2 can not explode. It will only burn as air mixes with the H2 giving a fire ball effect, no kaboom! We would classify this as a "Class 1.4" hazard which means it is a "mass fire hazard". Now a H2 & O2 mixture is extremely volatile. If you fill a tank or a balloon with a mixture of H2 & O2 and provide an ignition source it will explode violently, big kaboom! This would be a "Class 1.1" hazard. P.S. don't try this at home! The Hindenburg was filled with pure H2, so it was only a fire hazard. The outer skin was doped with a very flammable materiel, typical of that used on all fabric covered aircraft of that age (they didn't know no better). It is true that the accident may not have occurred if the skin were less flammable, but even if the skin were fire proof and the H2 were ignited, the result would have been the same. They main energy source was the hydrogen burning when it mixed with air. It is true that Hydrogen is lighter than air and tends to rise, however very few ventilation systems are designed to allow light gasses to rise freely. They typically have water traps that inadvertently act as light gas traps in reverse. People with hydrogen sources such as leaking fuel cell tanks and flooded lead acid batteries, which vent Hydrogen during charging, should inspect their ventilation systems to assure that light gasses can flow up them freely and not retain pockets of explosive gas mixtures. A reasonable alternative is to run a small blower when the battery charger is running, but make sure the blower is upstream on the hydrogen source. For a period of time, I was the chief engineer on a program to develop an airship which was going to use solar electric power and fuel cells to operate for extremely long periods at very high altitudes. I personally did very detailed research on fuel cells. At that time there were four types of fuel cells which I lumped into two categories. 1 Technically mature fuel cells, such as the ones Boeing uses on the Space Shuttle, which are cost prohibitive and 2 developmental fuel cells that appear to meet the cost and weight requirements but were not ready for prime time. We ultimately backed out of that program partly due of the risk associated with the fuel cells. Fuel cells are really a means of producing power from a chemical fuel, ideally H2 and O2, however, to reduce the storage problem, manufacturers are working on using hydrocarbon fuels which are disassociated into H2 and other waste products. The problem with disassociated fuels and using air as the oxidizer is the fuel cell are very sensitive to contamination. For this reason, fuel cells prefer to use short chain hydrocarbons which are easier to break down reliably. As opposed to Diesel fuel which is very difficult to break down. Due to the problems associated with storing large volumes of hydrogen gas, I believe the best application of a fuel cell on a boat would be as a substitute for the battery bank. You could charge the fuel cell off the main engine while cruising or off the generator and it would provide quite and reliable power, just like a battery. The problem is the charging efficiency (typically 30-50%) is much lower than lead acid batteries, so it will take a lot more energy to charge than you will get back. Pessimistically yours; Mike Schooley Ex-rocket scientist & Trailerable Trawler dreamer From schooleymike@pe.net Mon Jun 11 01:44:37 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:44:37 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: trough/valley of specific fuel consumption curve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Larry Zeitlin wrote, "... Boats using a fixed pitch prop usually choose a prop to provide hull speed at 80 to 90% of engine rpm, generally well above the point of lowest specific fuel consumption. This makes a good case for controllable pitch props to achieve maximum range. Unfortunately the price differential between a CPP and a fixed prop is so great that most of us will never see a penny of fuel savings in a lifetime of boating. Now for a circumnavigator it may be a different story." Michael Kasten has shown that, for new construction boats in the power range covered by the SABB controllable pitch propellers, the cost difference between CPP drive train and fixed propeller drive train is negligible. For a retrofit of an existing boat, I would agree, however for new construction, the CPP makes a lot of sense. In addition, if the new boat is a motorsailer, then the CPP is far better than a fixed prop. Sincerely yours; Mike Schooley Trailerable Trawler dreamer From schooleymike@pe.net Mon Jun 11 01:44:39 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:44:39 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: <3B246FC1.F02CB92A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: First, I'd like to apologize. The massage you replied to was authored a long time ago, but it was stuck in the outbox on a PC that I rarely use. Sorry for the delayed response. Overall, I couldn't agree more. AGM and Gels are similar in that they are sensitive to over charging. OTOH flooded cells are more sensitive to neglect. You make your choices and then you live with them. My main goal is to help people make intelligent choices. I only objected to the insinuation that AGM and Gels were the same. Similar in some aspects I'll agree with, but not the same or equal. Sincerely; Mike Schooley Trailerable Trawler dreamer From paul@whooppee.com Mon Jun 11 13:42:56 2001 From: paul@whooppee.com (Paul Goyette) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, K2JXW / ARLHS.COM wrote: > Well, it's a brokered boat and the owner hired the surveyor so I > have no idea whom he used. The dealer can't say, and the owner > won't show me the survey. It was the dealer that told me about > the moisture problem. They offered to have their shop do the > work, but I want to check out other opinions first. I think you got real lucky - a buyer should NEVER let the owner or broker select the surveyor. The surveyor is working for you, to find the problems with the boat. You should select the surveyor, and you should be the first person to get a first-hand report from him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Paul Goyette | PGP DSS Key fingerprint: | E-mail addresses: | | Network Engineer | BCD7 5301 9513 58A6 0DBC | paul@whooppee.com | | & World Cruiser | 91EB ADB1 A280 3B79 9221 | pgoyette@juniper.net | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Mon Jun 11 13:49:44 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:49:44 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A33FED@BCMAIL1> Michael Schooley wrote: <<< snip>>> Mostly AGM batteries are destroyed by users who don't buy a proper charging system, or don't correctly adjust the profile of the charging system when they switch from flooded or gel cell to AGM. They are also killed by people who try to equalize them. <<< snip>> When equipped with a quality and appropriate charging system AGM batteries can provide double the life of low cost flooded cell batteries and they are as close as one can get to maintenance free. Sincerely; Mike Schooley Arild comments: I want to support that statement. My own observations from numerous customer situations confirm that. regards Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From Nswift@aol.com Mon Jun 11 13:53:35 2001 From: Nswift@aol.com (Nswift@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:53:35 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick Message-ID: I received several suggestions about throw rugs with rubberized backings that would again stick and make marks on the teak and holly floor. Most said to enjoy my floors and then use chemicals to remove the build-up from the underlayment. Remember, I have tried: Using the thin layer rubberized stuff from Walmart under throw rugs Buying the rubberized backed carpets from Lowe's. They look nice and they last about 6 months. Then they powder and stick to the floor. They make a terrible mess. If any of you know of a great throw rug that won't skid and won't cause damage to our beautiful floors, please e-mail us. Thank you From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 14:03:05 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:03:05 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611140305.007ab6c0@earthlink.net> ===============================================================>Well, it's a brokered boat and the owner hired the surveyor so I >have no idea whom he used. The dealer can't say, and the owner >won't show me the survey. It was the dealer that told me about >the moisture problem. They offered to have their shop do the >work, but I want to check out other opinions first. ============================================================== You should not be paying for the survey if you can't see it........ . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From weidner@waterw.com Mon Jun 11 14:29:16 2001 From: weidner@waterw.com (K2JXW / ARLHS.COM) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:29:16 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: TW: hull moisture In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010611121149.007dde80@pop.ticz.com> Message-ID: RE: Comments about Bayliner's "off-brand" diesels Well, I currently own a 30-ft Bayliner 3058 and have had it for 8 years. We love it and have had on problems whatsoever. The only reason for wanting to trade is to get a bigger boat because we spend so much time on ours. I basically live on it from April thru November here on the Delaware River in New Jersey (all freshwater). We also take extensive summer cruises to the Chesapeake Bay. It is a twin engine gas, and with the price of fuel now, diesel seemed the way to go -- that plus the 900 hours on the current gas engines (Merc 5.7L). The diesels in this 32 Bayliner are Cummins, I think. In all our travels to boat yards at the NJ shore, we saw only one diesel, a Mainship 1985 for $69,900; but it was sold before we got to it. Diesels are hard to find -- all the others that we saw were fishing boats and showed great need of cosmetics since that had been used as charters. And they had no swim platform -- where's a guy supposed to store his dinghy, fer gosh sakes!!?? 73 Jim, K2JXW, Amateur Radio Lighthouse Society, Member #001 U S Coast Guard Auxiliary -- USCGAUX, Flotilla 06-05-160 Lightship Sailors Association -- LSA http://arlhs.com ================================================= . From weldred@zoo.uvm.edu Mon Jun 11 14:53:33 2001 From: weldred@zoo.uvm.edu (Wesley Eldred) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:53:33 -0400 Subject: TWL: Antifreeze In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B2513AD.1EC750F2@zoo.uvm.edu> Dan: The following is a statement that relates to Ford power stroke diesel engines. Cavitation is the destructive action and wet cylinder liners are particularly vulnerable. This information may or may not have any relevance to your particular engine or circumstances. "Use of Fleetguard DCA4 liquid or filters containing DCA4 will prevent this problem. Navistar International, the maker of these engines, has long recognized that they need supplemental coolant additives to prevent cylinder wall cavitation (liner pitting). Navistar installs Fleetguard DCA4 into the engines at time of manufacture. However, one precharge dose is not enough. You must add additional doses of these coolant additives on a regular basis (such as at every oil change) to rebuild the lost inhibitor package. These chemicals are sacrificial compounds that are used to put a microscopic coating on the cylinder walls (coolant side). Since they are sacrificial, the concentrations need to be tested on a regular basis and more DCA4 added to maintain a MINIMUM precharge level of 1.5 units per gallon of coolant capacity." Wesley LNVT "Little Bitt" weldred@zoo.uvm.edu Dan Stilwell wrote: > > Can someone explain why a unique antifreeze type is required for diesel > engines? > > Dan Stilwell > "Moon Dance", Pilgrim 40 > Milwaukee, Wisconsin > > _______________________________________________________ > From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Mon Jun 11 14:55:31 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:55:31 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010611144434.00a0cc60@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> I'd be very leery of this deal. You've got to believe that if the owner won't show you the survey, it's not because there are so many GOOD things reported in it. I can only presume he would take this attitude if there were other BAD things in it that he doesn't want you to see. If you're in love with the boat and are going to buy it no matter what, then I'd hire my own surveyor. The boat that I bought recently had no major problems, but an assortment of minor ones. After the surveys (both hull and engines), the owners dropped the price of the boat by several times the cost of the surveys. Having your own survey done will either prevent you from making a mistake buying the boat, or at least provide some negotiating leverage on the price I would think. Good luck.... Bill ------------------------------------- At 12:54 PM 6/11/01 -0400, K2JXW / ARLHS.COM wrote: >Well, it's a brokered boat and the owner hired the surveyor so I >have no idea whom he used. The dealer can't say, and the owner >won't show me the survey. It was the dealer that told me about >the moisture problem. They offered to have their shop do the >work, but I want to check out other opinions first. From dalescott@cablespeed.com Mon Jun 11 14:53:23 2001 From: dalescott@cablespeed.com (Dale Scott) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:53:23 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We have been experiencing the same problems with our GB42CL. My wife bought beautiful oriental carpets which are guaranteed to slip out from under your feet at the most inopportune time. We've tried three different non-slip pads. All have adhered to the teak floor and required countless hours with Murphys oil-soap and fine steel wool to remove. These carpets represented a fairly substantial investment so we would really like to find something to place under them that will keep them from sliding around yet not adhere to the teak. From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Mon Jun 11 15:04:37 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:04:37 -0400 Subject: TWL: Leather Furniture on Boat? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010611145621.00a27c20@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> I need to buy a small couch or love seat for a trawler. Would anyone here care to share their experience on the leather -vs- cloth issue? On the one hand I figure a boat is fairly hard service and leather may be easier to clean sun tan lotion or other difficult things from. On the other hand I worry about how comfortable it would be in a hot environment. Anyone have experience pro or con? Thanks. Bill From tclem@acadia.net Mon Jun 11 15:14:13 2001 From: tclem@acadia.net (Tom Clements) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:14:13 -0400 Subject: TWL: Leather Furniture on Boat? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010611145621.00a27c20@pop-server.tampabay.rr.c om> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010611151328.0243c408@post.acadia.net> Ultrasuede is great. At 03:04 PM 6/11/2001 -0400, Bill Martin wrote: >I need to buy a small couch or love seat for a trawler. Would anyone here >care to share their experience on the leather -vs- cloth issue? On the >one hand I figure a boat is fairly hard service and leather may be easier >to clean sun tan lotion or other difficult things from. On the other hand >I worry about how comfortable it would be in a hot environment. > >Anyone have experience pro or con? Thanks. > >Bill From normrose@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 15:17:02 2001 From: normrose@earthlink.net (Norman Rose) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:17:02 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B25192E.4FDB483@earthlink.net> Dale & Nswift, Look, just a wild thought...what about painting the back of a carpet with that liquid rubber stuff you put on tool handles? And, I saw somewhere (of course I don't remember) an advt. for a brushable rubber truck bedliner type material. Perhaps either of these on the back of a rug would be tough enough to stand up to your situation. What thinkest thou? Norm Rose I joined a health club last year, spent about $400. Haven't lost a pound. Apparently you have to show up. From jurban@netsecuritypro.com Mon Jun 11 15:43:19 2001 From: jurban@netsecuritypro.com (Joe Urban) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:43:19 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: TWL Oil, Fuel, TBN, and other stuff Message-ID: <200106111943.PAA28754@typhoon.pop3now.com> There is extensive discussion of the differences between Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 on Internet forumns especially those devoted to diesel automobile engines. Here is one of Mobil's responses to the MB club: "What's the difference in the additive package for Mobil 1 (CF rated) >and Delvac 1 (CG rated)? What practical effect does this have on oil >changed at 5 - 10K mile intervals in an automotive diesel engine? Mobil's Response - The latest API service categories are SJ for gasoline engines and CH- 4 for severe duty, four-stroke diesel engines. Mobil 1 meets API SJ and CF. The API CF category, introduced in 1994, is applicable to light duty, indirect injection diesel engines. Therefore, Mobil 1 will perform well in passenger car and light duty truck diesel engines requiring a API CD or CF oil. The API CH-4 category is intended for modern, large displacement diesel engines which generate much more soot by comparison. Both Mobil Delvac 1 and Delvac 1300 Super meet API CH-4 and have outstanding soot handling abilities." o I guess its up to us to cehck our engines, what oil they call for and decide. My Volvo TAMD41a's are currently using Mobil 1, but I plan to cehck if I should swith to HD synthetic at the next change. I have been advised by my mechanic not to switch back to conventional oil now that the engine is on Mobil 1. Joe Urban Punches - Senator 35 Lancaster, VA From e16@telus.net Mon Jun 11 15:57:45 2001 From: e16@telus.net (Garrett Lambert) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:57:45 -0700 Subject: TWL: Leather Furniture on Boat? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm a fan of leather upholstery. Real leather seems never to be too hot or too cold, and it breathes, so it's not so likely to induce perspiration as one of the plastics. OTOH, it will absorb oils, skin and suntan both, and it's almost impossible to remove absorbed stains. Which, I suppose, is why so many people choose black. We inherited a navy-blue fabric sofa in our salon. The only complaint is that anything that's white, eg lint, really shows. The vacuum gets used a lot, and a tweed fabric would have been a better - but probably not cleaner - choice. However, because we boat in the PNW, a very cool climate, I'd be happy to have a leather sofa instead. Not a lot of tanning going on here, so the combination of comfort and easy wipe-off cleaning for crumbs etc is attractive. Cheers, Garrett From samakijoe@mediaone.net Mon Jun 11 16:17:57 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:17:57 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611161757.007f14e0@pop.pompano.net> At 01:53 PM 06/11/2001 EDT, Nswift@aol.com wrote: >I received several suggestions about throw rugs with rubberized backings that >would again stick and make marks on the teak and holly floor. Most said to >enjoy my floors and then use chemicals to remove the build-up from the >underlayment. > >Remember, I have tried: > > Using the thin layer rubberized stuff from Walmart under throw rugs > > Buying the rubberized backed carpets from Lowe's. They look nice and they >last about 6 months. Then they powder and stick to the floor. They make a >terrible mess. > > >If any of you know of a great throw rug that won't skid and won't cause >damage to our beautiful floors, please e-mail us. > >Thank you Maybe we need to look at what you are using for a coating on the wood. Does anyone have a suggestion for a coating that has shown to be usable in this situation?...jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From bvcom@mac.com Mon Jun 11 16:20:54 2001 From: bvcom@mac.com (bv) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:20:54 -0400 Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just take some soft foam and tape it over the mike, and you'll be OK. No more wind. That's the way radio reporters do. Bernard > Our current favorite radios are the Motorola T6310 units. > > Has anyone come across a hands-free headset that will tolerate the wind? > From Joe@JRE.com Mon Jun 11 16:31:56 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:31:56 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE72614ED@WINNTSRV> Hi Mike: I was with you all the way to your last statement. The one about double the battery life of flooded wet cell batteries. I have never heard of nor experienced anything close that. Seems to me AGMs have only been readily available for what, 4 years or less? We expect and get 10-12 years from Trojan 6 volt GC batteries when they are well cared for. I have 11 years on our own bank now. So are you saying that well cared for AGM batteries will last 20 years? Joe & Debbie Engel Marine Computer Services & JRE Consulting, Inc. MV Freda Fly - 40' Tollycraft Tri-cabin Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: Michael Schooley [mailto:schooleymike@pe.net] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 7:05 PM To: doughoople@earthlink.net; Trawler World List Subject: RE: TWL: RE: Batteries Message-ID: "Subject: Re: TWL: The Fuel Evolution, Why would H2 engines be quiet?" Yeah, why would fuel cells or whatever be quiet? From Joe@JRE.com Mon Jun 11 16:46:15 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:46:15 -0700 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE72614EF@WINNTSRV> You should have been at my seminar in Poulsbo. Paul's right. You've got this whole thing upside-down and you are heading for troubled waters ($$$$). Use you own independent surveyor and no one except you should see the survey until you want to share it. Joe & Debbie Engel Marine Computer Services & JRE Consulting, Inc. MV Freda Fly - 40' Tollycraft Tri-cabin Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: Paul Goyette [mailto:paul@whooppee.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:43 AM To: Trawler List Subject: RE: TWL: hull insulation moisture On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, K2JXW / ARLHS.COM wrote: > Well, it's a brokered boat and the owner hired the surveyor so I > have no idea whom he used. The dealer can't say, and the owner > won't show me the survey. It was the dealer that told me about > the moisture problem. They offered to have their shop do the > work, but I want to check out other opinions first. I think you got real lucky - a buyer should NEVER let the owner or broker select the surveyor. The surveyor is working for you, to find the problems with the boat. You should select the surveyor, and you should be the first person to get a first-hand report from him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Paul Goyette | PGP DSS Key fingerprint: | E-mail addresses: | | Network Engineer | BCD7 5301 9513 58A6 0DBC | paul@whooppee.com | | & World Cruiser | 91EB ADB1 A280 3B79 9221 | pgoyette@juniper.net | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 11 16:49:14 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:49:14 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004c01c0f2b7$fc1efc80$faec4e0c@KennethMcQuage> A marine surveyor has determined "high moisture level" in the hull foam insulation. 1. What the heck does high mean - could be 50 % , 75 %, 95 % or that the surveyor might think that 30 % is high . Were there more than one reading - how many were taken ?- was one spot " high " and the others not ? - were these readings averaged in total or by area of the boat ? This opinion is meaningless without the data that any qualified surveyor would provede ... > Well, it's a brokered boat and the owner hired the surveyor so I have no idea whom he used. The dealer can't say, and the owner won't show me the survey. It was the dealer that told me about the moisture problem. They offered to have their shop do the work, but I want to check out other opinions first. Opinion : RUN LIKE HELL I wonder what the dealer offered to do - cut or dig out the foam and reglass - or as one I saw most recently - which consisted of putting three dehumidifiers in the bilge and " let them all run " .. Over the winter I saw another boat dried with the use of space heaters - improperly upported - the water line has a really nice wave to it - and it isn't just the paint .... 2nd Opinion : RUN LIKE HELL FROM BOTH THIS DEALER AND THIS OWNER . The surveyor may have done a good job or may not - you will never know if you cannot see the report . GET the report, TALK to the Surveyor , Check out the reputation of the surveyor as far as possible - With TWL - other Boat owners in the area - etc.. If the Surveyor does not check out - or provides only generalizations in his report ..... 3rd Opinion : RUN LIKE HELL FROM THE WHOLE LOT.... Just one opinion All the Best Ken m/v Mrs. Hudson From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 11 17:23:57 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:23:57 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c0f2be$015612a0$3dfd4e0c@KennethMcQuage> so we would really like to find something to > place under them that will keep them from sliding around yet not adhere to the teak. *** I simply gave up and put in some snaps - the carpet stays put - and I am no longer afraid to walk across the floor . Ken From Joe@JRE.com Mon Jun 11 17:50:43 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:50:43 -0700 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE72614F2@WINNTSRV> Just a clarification to Ken's comments here. Just as you are under no obligations to show any survey done by your surveyor (the one you hired) neither do you have any right to see any other survey done previously, on the same boat, at any time in the past. That said, a sales broker will often share older surveys that he has on the boat. These should be taken with a grain of salt because a sales broker will not likely show you a devastating survey. He is, after all, trying to sell you the boat. If you are given a copy of an older survey, great, it's a good starting point. But if your boat selection passes your mental survey, then you MUST select an independent surveyor, NOT a surveyor recommended by the selling broker, and have a complete separate survey done for you alone. Finally, before you select a surveyor, you should first determine if your selected person is approved by your financial institution and by your insurance company. If he is not, you may have to do yet another survey for these institutions to get insurance and financing. Joe & Debbie Engel Marine Computer Services & JRE Consulting, Inc. MV Freda Fly - 40' Tollycraft Tri-cabin Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: M. Kenneth McQuage [mailto:tobyboat@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:49 PM To: K2JXW / ARLHS.COM; Joe DellaFera; Trawler List Subject: Re: TWL: hull insulation moisture A marine surveyor has determined "high moisture level" in the hull foam insulation. 1. What the heck does high mean - could be 50 % , 75 %, 95 % or that the surveyor might think that 30 % is high . Were there more than one reading - how many were taken ?- was one spot " high " and the others not ? - were these readings averaged in total or by area of the boat ? This opinion is meaningless without the data that any qualified From diplodocus1@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 11 21:30:21 2001 From: diplodocus1@worldnet.att.net (jean somerhausen) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:30:21 -0700 Subject: TWL: Oil pressure switch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B2570AD.B@worldnet.att.net> I'd say it is meant to stop the oil pressure alarm when one is working on the engine with the contact on. Car dealerships ask you to switch the "valet parking" on the alarm of you car so that the alarm will not blast when they work on your engine. john From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 18:44:06 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:44:06 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611184406.007965e0@earthlink.net> like to find something to >place under them that will keep them from sliding around yet not adhere to >the teak. ============================================================ Have you tried spraying on a little contact cement, let it dry thoroughly so it doesn't stick. I believe this will stop the sliding. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 18:50:50 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:50:50 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611185050.007965e0@earthlink.net> something to >place under them that will keep them from sliding around yet not adhere to >the teak. ======================================================== Another thought Dale I use silicone under many items to keep them from sliding around, even coffee mugs and leaves no residue. You can get watery windshield sealant, works great for me. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 18:55:02 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:55:02 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: <3B25192E.4FDB483@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611185502.007af360@earthlink.net> >Norm Rose > >I joined a health club last year, spent about $400. Haven't lost a >pound. Apparently you have to show up. ============================================================= Your problem Norm is you are showing up at the dinner table. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 18:58:07 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:58:07 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: TWL Oil, Fuel, TBN, and other stuff In-Reply-To: <200106111943.PAA28754@typhoon.pop3now.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611185807.007b0580@earthlink.net> At 03:43 PM 6/11/01 -0400, you wrote: >There is extensive discussion of the differences between Mobil 1 and >Delvac 1 on Internet forumns especially those devoted to diesel >automobile engines. > >Joe Urban ========================================================= Joe ---------for our purposes, do you think it really matters what oil we use as long as the viscosity is right. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From scaramouche@tvo.org Mon Jun 11 19:25:08 2001 From: scaramouche@tvo.org (George Geist) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:25:08 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: weidner@waterw.com writes: >A marine surveyor has determined "high moisture level" in the hull >foam >insulation. >Based on this, we will probably offer considerably less to the >present >owner The following is NOT a Joke. Bought a Hullmaster 27 (notoriously overbuilt here in Canada) from a couple that had it in dry storage for two summers. A friend who sells marine instruments for a living. walked around with his latest gadget. All the boats in the marina were dry and sound - except mine. There seemed to be a persistent roughly triangular form of moisture visible near the bow. Well it was very early spring, the cockpit had ben covered, the keel except for a few inches (which the moisture meter faithfully reported) all were dry. Something was wrong - The previous owners had forgotten to pump out the holding tank before land-storage. Big POOO! We replaced every inch of hose, flushed the tank and now four years later - not a whiff! And yes, I did negotiate a few dollars discount ;-) George of Scaramouche P.s: If one uses enough of those blue Crystals, there is no overly excessive odour even in Ontario Summers, that 's why the "error" was not detected earlier. From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Mon Jun 11 19:36:55 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:36:55 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010611161757.007f14e0@pop.pompano.net> Message-ID: Here's maybe a simple solution, easily tried. Spray the back of a carpet with 3M Spray 77, that super-duper spray adhesive. It won't glue it down permanently, but should maybe stop the slipperies. BTW: I had this job once, where this one guy spent far too much time on the shop phone. The foreman commented that he must be glued to the stool by the phone. That started my devious mind working. When no one was looking, I goobered up the stool's seat with 77, then told the guy that he had a phone call. So he plunks himself down on the stool to take the call. I don't know which was funnier, watching the guy freak out as he was waving around this stool stuck tight to his ass, or the sight of three carpenters yanking away on the legs of that stool, trying to unstick it. Liked to've hurt myself, I was laughing so hard! Now if everyone is good, I'll tell the story of stapling this other spacey guy's shoe to the floor without him noticing my work! ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Mon Jun 11 19:36:58 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:36:58 -0700 Subject: TWL: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: They sell pre-formed foam cover for mikes at better music stores. Can't have a singer popping their "S"'s! ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of bv > Just take some soft foam and tape it over the mike, and you'll be OK. No > more wind. That's the way radio reporters do. From newmoon1@prodigy.net Mon Jun 11 19:43:56 2001 From: newmoon1@prodigy.net (Richard G. Cook) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:43:56 -0600 Subject: TWL: No-Phosphate Antifreeze Message-ID: <3B2557BC.955EECA4@prodigy.net> I was instructed by one of Volvo's traveling tech service wizards in May of 2000 that it's mandatory, in my KAD44P-EDC at least, to use only antifreeze with no or almost no phosphate content, and distilled water rather than tap water. Apparently, ordinary antifreeze, with lots of phosphates, especially when combined with who knows what that's in your tap water, can cause corrosion or pitting. My owner's manual made no mention of this, other than to say you should use Volvo Penta antifreeze, but apparently it's pretty important. Naturally, VP antifreeze is spendy. OTOH, you don't change it very often. I'm not sure what acceptable alternatives there are. At the time, the word was apparently just getting out to boat builders and service shops, because none of those who had laid hands on my engine seemed to be aware of the requirement. BTW, I've heard the same regarding my Cummins truck engine. Richard Cook New Moon (Bounty 257) From schooleymike@pe.net Mon Jun 11 08:05:29 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 05:05:29 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Personal radios that can tolerate wind noise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve Darden wrote, "We've tested 3 different types of short range radios aboard Adagio ...All work pretty with less than 5kn of wind across the deck, but in the 'real world' the wind noise pretty much makes the comm useless. Our current favorite radios are the Motorola T6310 units. Has anyone come across a hands-free headset that will tolerate the wind?" Yes. We had this problem on our Phantom boat. Wind noise at 45 kts made any radio or intercom useless, plus we needed sound attenuation when we were firing the guns and the ear plugs that go in the ear seamed to aggravate sea sickness problems. After much research and comparison testing we selected Peltor PowerCom(TM), sound attenuation headsets (26 db noise reduction) which feature built in radios and noise canceling microphones. http://www.peltor.com/html/products/peltor/powercom.htm http://home.ipoline.com/~precspt/peltorcomm.htm http://www.aearo.com/html/products/peltor/powercom.htm The noise cancellation microphones work by having back to back microphones and subtracting the signal from the front mic from that of the rear one. We tested these on the Phantom and they worked quite will up to about 20-25 kts, but that wasn't good enough. The experts at Peltor recommended what we call "magic foam" sheets to wrap around the microphones. They said we might need two or three layers. We were skeptical, but we tried it anyway. Three layers wasn't good enough, but four layers worked perfectly (we never tried five). We can even use the voice activated feature at 45 kts with guns a blazing. Now we use them all the time and we can even talk while we are firing the gun. I headsets retail for $491 but I got a price quote today for a pair at $368.75 each. The only problem we have found is when they get wet inside the battery compartment (the Phantom boat can be a wet ride when the wind blows the spray back on you) they stop working until we dry them out. Haven't had one stop permanently yet and on a Trawler this shouldn't be a problem except in the really bad weather. I have no affiliation with Peltor, I'm just a satisfied customer. Since you already have the T6310 radio, I thought a cheaper solution to your problem would be to get a noise cancellation hands free headset for the T6310. I did some net searching, but didn't find one so I called Motorola. They told me that they didn't have a noise canceling headset for the consumer radio line and suggested I upgrade to a professional series radio. Cheers; Mike Schooley Trailerable Trawler dreamer From adagio@our.net.au Mon Jun 11 21:01:11 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:01:11 +1000 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A33FED@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: on 6/12/01 3:49, Arild Jensen at Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com wrote: > I want to support that statement. My own observations from numerous > customer situations confirm that. Arild what is your experience with lifetime of AGM vs. quality gel cell batteries? Steve Darden s/v Adagio GPO 2046 Hobart, TAS 7001 Australia 0415/782-305 http://www.adagiomarine.com From davegdmn@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 21:10:05 2001 From: davegdmn@earthlink.net (Dave Goodman) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:10:05 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:42:56 -0700 (PDT), Paul Goyette wrote: > ... The surveyor is working for you, to find > the problems with the boat. You should select the surveyor, and you > should be the first person to get a first-hand report from him. While I agree with what Paul has said, I would go much further. You should not only be the *first* person to get his report, you should be the *only* person. You can then decide whether you want to release all or part to any other party. You paid for the survey; the report is yours. Usually the only valid reason to release any part of it is if you will renegotiate the deal because of problems found, and then I would only copy the broker or owner in on the pertinent part(s). -- Dave Goodman M/V Dragonfly Sarasota, FL From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 21:31:03 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:31:03 -0400 Subject: TWL: Oil------My thoughts In-Reply-To: <008201c0f2d7$9bf837c0$a9f4accf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010611213103.007b0b70@earthlink.net> Joe-----I use 15w40 as the good book says and change regularily on schedule. I buy my oil at Walmart and it conforms to all the manufacturer and Mil specs and additives. $5.38 a gallon, if they are out I go next door to Pep Boys, same specs. Do you think I will wear these engines out??? I don't think so........They say the average boater which I am not puts on about 150 hours per year, thats 10 to 20 years of boating. The long dissertation on oil will just confuse a lot of readers unecessarily and will not help the Newbies. ============================================================= >Capt. Al, > you wrote today: >> Joe ---------for our purposes, do you think it really matters what oil we >> use as long as the viscosity is right. > >I believe that the viscosity must be right and that the additive >package/rating must also be appropriate, . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From fjflinn@accessbee.com Mon Jun 11 22:08:56 2001 From: fjflinn@accessbee.com (fjflinn) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:08:56 -0700 Subject: TWL: Proper way to bed a Bomar Hatch Message-ID: <000b01c0f2e4$a3c2ece0$0ed84240@oemcomputer> Dear List I removed the 18 year old Bomar hatch from my boat and removed all the accumulated varnish and bedding compound from the wood.My question is , should I revarnish the wood before I replace the hatch , or replace the hatch and varnish around it?? Also,what is the best bedding compound for this use? Thanks Fred Flinn From PRyker@Affinity.com Mon Jun 11 22:22:07 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:22:07 -0700 Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear and bilge pumps... Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0404E@exchange.affinityla.com> I took out the boat this past saturday for and put about 6 hours on the engine. While out I had the admiral drive and I started poking around in the bilge, engine room and rear near the stuffing boxes wile the boat was at cruise speed just looking for things out of the ordinary. I observed that there was a definate light spray of water coming off of the stuffing box. I was under the impression that I should only see a drip every 60 seconds while at cruise. and a drip every 90 seconds while sitting still. Is this the case?? I also noted that all of the bilge pumps look like they have been in the boat longer than 5 years. Isn't the average life span of these pumps 5 years? If I plan on changing them what type is recommended, the automatic ones that do not need a float or the old style with the float? Are "Rule" bilge pumps the best way to go? Thanks Phil From PRyker@Affinity.com Mon Jun 11 22:30:44 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:30:44 -0700 Subject: TWL: Antifreeze In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0404F@exchange.affinityla.com> I own a Ford Excursion with a 7.3 litre Power Stroke diesel and the owners manual clearly states that I must add the fleetguard DCA4 additive to my antifreeze every 15,000 miles. The truck has only 18,000 miles on it (barely broken in) and I did do this at the proper interval. The diesel mechanic at the dealership told me that it was important since the lack of this additive can lead to liner pitting. My $0.02 cents Phil -----Original Message----- From: Wesley Eldred [mailto:weldred@zoo.uvm.edu] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:54 PM To: Dan Stilwell Cc: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: Re: TWL: Antifreeze Dan: The following is a statement that relates to Ford power stroke diesel engines. Cavitation is the destructive action and wet cylinder liners are particularly vulnerable. This information may or may not have any relevance to your particular engine or circumstances. "Use of Fleetguard DCA4 liquid or filters containing DCA4 will prevent this problem. Navistar International, the maker of these engines, has long recognized that they need supplemental coolant additives to prevent cylinder wall cavitation (liner pitting). Navistar installs Fleetguard DCA4 into the engines at time of manufacture. However, one precharge dose is not enough. You must add additional doses of these coolant additives on a regular basis (such as at every oil change) to rebuild the lost inhibitor package. These chemicals are sacrificial compounds that are used to put a microscopic coating on the cylinder walls (coolant side). Since they are sacrificial, the concentrations need to be tested on a regular basis and more DCA4 added to maintain a MINIMUM precharge level of 1.5 units per gallon of coolant capacity." Wesley LNVT "Little Bitt" weldred@zoo.uvm.edu Dan Stilwell wrote: > > Can someone explain why a unique antifreeze type is required for diesel > engines? > > Dan Stilwell > "Moon Dance", Pilgrim 40 > Milwaukee, Wisconsin > > _______________________________________________________ > From th-white@swbell.net Mon Jun 11 22:33:38 2001 From: th-white@swbell.net (Tom White) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:33:38 -0500 Subject: TWL: C-Flex In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0404E@exchange.affinity la.com> Message-ID: <0GES004YJPXD0T@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> Hi All: I'm a first time poster but a long time reader. Great group! I am reading ads in Yacht Trader for older boats (wood hulled). What does "C-flexed" mean and what should one look out for? Tom White Rockport, Texas From doughoople@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 23:00:45 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Douglas Hoople) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:00:45 +0800 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010612030045.18006.qmail@earthlink.net> Mostly AGM batteries are destroyed by users who don't buy a proper charging system, or don't correctly adjust the profile of the charging system when they switch from flooded or gel cell to AGM. They are also killed by people who try to equalize them. Message: don't ever make a mistake, don't ever let your electrician make a mistake, don't ever let your brother-in-law make a mistake, don't ever let your solar trickle-charger make a mistake, and your longlife batteries will live a long life. That's fine. I'm not in disagreement with that. Arild comments: I want to support that statement. My own observations from numerous customer situations confirm that. Arild, Are your observations of people experiencing good long battery life from good practice, or shortened battery life from mistakes made? Doug -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.earthlink.net Powered by Outblaze From jpscratches@hotmail.com Mon Jun 11 23:18:17 2001 From: jpscratches@hotmail.com (JP Scratches) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:18:17 -0700 Subject: TWL: Radar Advice Message-ID: I've decided it's time to replace the 1987 model Raytheon 2400 radar unit that's served my Tollycraft since its birth. Living and boating in the Northwest makes one wary of weather, especially the speed at which it can change. I see lots of people here with what I consider toy radars. Little domes that see for 16 miles and would be overwhelmed if they encountered any real weather. Sorry if I've offended anyone. I already have a 10" LCD chartplotter and gps so I don't really need to go to the fancy Raytheon or Furuno "wired world" units. I was thinking of picking up the last generation of Raytheon. Perhaps a 21xx or a 41xx (the big difference being a 7" screen on the 21 vs. the 10" screen on the 41). Here's what I know about the 21/41xx series: Target resolution - 4KW Open array has 1.8 degree beamwidth Screen resolution - The 21 and 41 are both CRTs MARPA on the 21xx tracks one target, 41xx six. I can get into something like this for between $1000 and $2000 vs. $4000 to $6000 for the current, comparable model Raytheon or Furuno. Foolish or sensible? 7" display or hold out for 10"? Advice and counsel? Thanks in advance!! JPS _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From PRyker@Affinity.com Mon Jun 11 23:56:10 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:56:10 -0700 Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear and bilge pumps... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B04050@exchange.affinityla.com> Bill, My stuffing boxes are under the floor in the rear stateroom and is seperated from the engine room by a bulkhead. The water is actually spraying on the underside of the plywood floor. I do have good access to them through hatches. When you say "alignment" you mean engine alignment relative to the shaft itself yes? I do plan to have the shafts checked for straightness, props redone, stuffing boxes and glands redone and engine alignment all dome during fall haul out. For now, can I just try and tighten it a little?? Phil -----Original Message----- From: Bill Martin [mailto:wmartin@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:48 PM To: Phil Ryker Subject: Re: TWL: Stuffing box wear and bilge pumps... Spray from the stuffing box is not uncommon (depending on exactly what you mean by spray), but IS a common source of corrosion in the engine spaces. Salt water spraying or misting into the air is not good for anything steel, aluminium, wiring, etc. The shaft spinning on some boats seems to turn the drip into a spray. Or it may be a sign that the packing is leaking too much and needs to be tightened a tad. Or misalignment of the shaft with the stuffing box will create all sorts of symptoms and might include spraying in some cases or packing wearing too quickly. My #1 bet would be that it's just set to leak too much. Failing that, and if you're convinced you don't have any "real" problem (such as alignment), then the solution I believe is very simple. Just add a splash guard around the stuffing box where it sprays. Maybe an old plastic bleach bottle you can chop up such that it fits over the box, catches all the spray and lets it drip quitely into the bilge rather than fogging the engine room. Obviously you need to do it such that it won't bind up on the rotating shaft and such that it's easy to pull out of the way to work on things. Pascoe's web site complains about boats without splash guards occasionally. I was going to give you a link to one of his rants about it, but I couldn't find it at the moment. Even if you have a more fundamental problem such as misalignment, and are able to fix it to eliminate the spray, it isn't a bad idea to have the splash guard anyhow. If the spray ever returns for whatever reason, at least it won't salt mist the engine spaces until you find and fix it. Good luck.... Bill ------------------------------------------------------------- At 07:22 PM 6/11/01 -0700, you wrote: >I observed that there was a definate light spray of water coming off of the >stuffing box. I was under the impression that I should only see a drip >every 60 seconds while at cruise. and a drip every 90 seconds while sitting >still. Is this the case?? From PRyker@Affinity.com Mon Jun 11 23:59:17 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:59:17 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cleaning the bilge Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B04051@exchange.affinityla.com> I am full of questions today :-). What is the preferred way to clean the bilge? Wash down with water and West Marine bilge cleaner or simple boat soap? I have actually heard that a good rinse down with "Fresh Water" in the bilge, being careful not to get any electrical wet, is a good thing? Phil From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Tue Jun 12 00:39:55 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:39:55 -0400 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004401c0f2f9$bc0cae20$8deb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> . A friend who sells marine instruments for a living. > walked around with his latest gadget. And his latest gadget was ??? Ken From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Tue Jun 12 01:10:23 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:10:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: Antifreeze In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0404F@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: <006c01c0f2fd$fdf7d860$8deb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> > manual clearly states that I must add the fleetguard DCA4 additive The most common additive to control cavitation pitting is Nitrite - under various propritary names - since it is ' used up ' over time it is usually replaced by either putting in a liquid suppliment or - on over the road trucks with coolant filters - changing a chemicaly impregnated filter at about the same milage as one would add the liquid suppliment . I was told by an tech at Wix that the chem would be fully desolved into the system within two hrs of running . Wix amoung others offers a test kit consisting of simple Test Strips - for measuring the level of the Nitrite as well as the PH and levels of Corrision Inhibitors ( which are a seperate additive altogether which do a different job ) The Test Kits are relatively inexpensive - a container or 50 strips costs 16 bucks - Wix part no. 24106. I don't know if they will work with other brands of additive packages or not - don't see why not . The cost of a coolant filter kit is about 30 bucks and the filters run about 8 -10 bucks each . Wix does not manf the coolant filters themselves - the tech thought that possibly another div of Diana might - but he was not sure which one . The whole kit and kabotle - filter , filter kit , test strips , additive - was ordered at a total cost of $81 dollars - rather cheap insurance - at least I hope so .. There are numerous pages on the web which discuss coolant additives - water hardness specifications etc .. All the Best Ken From rwhb@email.msn.com Tue Jun 12 08:49:05 2001 From: rwhb@email.msn.com (ronald barr) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:49:05 -0400 Subject: TWL: battery desulphation & equalizing Message-ID: Having read quite a few postings about the subject on this listing in the past few months I was talking to George Peroni of the Hydrocap Corp the other day and heard a damning argument against sweeping pulse technology, high voltage equalizing et al. A bit confusing! After 60 years in the battery business he says that the origin of the equalizing technology was with the phone companies and it meant to them a voltage of around 14V not the 15+ that the desulfating option switches produce for 8 hours on Heart and similar charging systmes. His strong opinion is that if a battery is kept maintained by a good 3 stage charger it should never sulfate since the hydrogen sulfate (sulphuric acid) to lead sulfate cycle will continue without build up. Furthermore equalizing will definitely shorten the life of the batteries in his opinion. This is in direct contradiction to the information published on the Redbeard Yacht Systems site among others. He also recommended the use of 4 6V L-16's such as Rolls or Trojan rather than 4 x 12V in a bank since less ells means less maintenance. Anyway I'd like to hear some feedback on all this from you experts out there! Thanks Ron Barr Lady Brookhaven LRC 42 New Bern NC From rwhb@email.msn.com Tue Jun 12 08:49:39 2001 From: rwhb@email.msn.com (ronald barr) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:49:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: Garmin 2010 Message-ID: Has anyone own or taken a look at the new Garmin WAAS GPS with the 10.4" TFT screen? At about $2200 or so this seems to me like a good buy but I'd like some feedback since no one that I know of has it in stock yet...thanks Ron Barr M/V Lady Brookhaven 42" Hatteras LRC From doughoople@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 01:07:49 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:07:49 +0100 Subject: TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B25A3A5.36920CD9@earthlink.net> Jim, If you proceed, here's what will probably be the drill. 1) You make an offer based on what you know about the boat and what the broker has disclosed. They counter-offer. You dicker and agree on a price. 2) If it's seaworthy, you seatrial the boat. If it's wet, and it's on the hard drying out, you might wind up having to skip this step. Do so only if you're comfortable with that. 3) You get the boat hauled (if it's not already on the hard) and have the meanest, toughest sumbitch of a surveyor you can find to dig deep and find out what's really wrong with the boat. Note: You probably shouldn't give the survey report to the broker/dealer. They don't deserve it. They didn't show you theirs, so you shouldn't show them yours. It's not a question of nice or not nice. The survey report is your property. You paid a couple hundred bucks for this information. The broker didn't. Now you're going to give it away? They'll probably make you feel ridiculous for not showing it, but that's just a broker's tactic. When you give the broker the survey, you're helping them to market the boat to a buyer who is not you. 5) You itemize the problems that the surveyor turned up and put a price tag on them. Take the price tag to the broker and tell them how much of that you want. Remember that a surveyor will only tell you what he or she can see, so when it's for something hidden (like hull insulation) don't be shy about throwing in some fudge factor for the unkown. When they say "Aw, c'mon, let us see the survey," snip out the negotiating point(s) and present them separately, and then only if you feel like it. Note: If you itemize for the moisture in your survey concession and they respond with "We disclosed that. You knew about that. It's not a concession candidate," you respond with "Now I know the extent, and that wasn't disclosed." 6) The broker will minimize whatever you've found and look to lower your concession demand. Give in or stand your ground depending on how desperately you want the boat, how bad you think the repairs are, how desperately you think the owner wants the boat off his hands, and how many people are (or are not) standing in line to take your place. You're almost certainly going to have to have a survey done anyway to get financing and/or insurance. Use the survey process to your advantage. You should not accept their survey results in any form, and most definitely not as presented (verbal re-reporting). You should definitely NOT let them proceed with the repair. It's in their interest to do the absolute minimum to get it out the door. It's in your interest to do it right. These two impulses are generally in conflict. BTW, if the boat's on the hard, find out for how long, and make sure the surveyor knows, as it will potentially affect the moisture content. The yard should be able to tell you how long its been there. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From probe@binghamton.edu Tue Jun 12 09:15:31 2001 From: probe@binghamton.edu (Bill Blackburn) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:15:31 -0400 Subject: TWL: Marine Trader Electrical and Windshield Message-ID: Dear Listees, Does anyone know where I might get a set of electrical schematics for a 1978 vintage Marine Trader? Did they ever exist? When reconnecting the batteries this Spring I wound up with one extra/inexplicable wire. More particularly, there are two 10 gauge red wires (one going to each positive on the batteries) and an 8 gauge white wire that are coiled like springs and feed into a cloth wrapped harness down below the solenoid on the port side on my engine. I don't remember disconnecting the white wire and I'm not sure where it goes. Intuition would suggest that it goes to the negative, and it is continuous with ground. But everything works with it disconnected! I don't want to mess up my battery isolation so if any of you with my kind of boat would take a look and let me know I would appreciate it. On another note, I just finished replacing the windshield on my fly bridge. I used 3/16 inch, tinted Lexan. I used the old pieces for a pattern; cut the stuff with a 10 tooth/inch saber saw, and sanded the edges down to 600 grit. The Lexan seems to be more flexible than the original Plexiglas as I was able to fit the sharpest curves without heating it. It turned out to be a much easier job than I had anticipated. Thanks in advance for any help with the electrical questions. Best Regards, Bill Blackburn Pescadora 1978 36 Marine Trader Sedan Watkins Glen, NY From kirknelson@mac.com Tue Jun 12 09:25:20 2001 From: kirknelson@mac.com (Kirk Nelson) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:25:20 -0400 Subject: TWL: Leather Furniture on Boat? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ultrasuede appears to be universally popular on boats of all sizes. It is washable (wipe with a wet sponge) and wears like iron. Expensive but long lasting. Talk to the folks in the boat cushion business; they'll agree. kirknelson@mac.com From jhanlon@dc.com Tue Jun 12 10:27:53 2001 From: jhanlon@dc.com (Jim Hanlon) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:27:53 Subject: TWL: Re: No-Phosphate Antifreeze Message-ID: >My owner's manual made no mention of this, other than to say you should use Volvo Penta antifreeze, but apparently it's pretty important. Naturally, VP antifreeze is spendy. OTOH, you don't change it very often. I'm not sure what acceptable alternatives there are. < The folks at Mattos Marine told me to use distilled water with a "silica-free" antifreeze product and specifically mentioned the Volvo Penta or Dexicool. Jim Hanlon ______________________________________ Sent with PAWSoft MiniMail Download MiniMail for FREE now! http://www.pawsoft.co.uk From jhanlon@dc.com Tue Jun 12 10:31:10 2001 From: jhanlon@dc.com (Jim Hanlon) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:31:10 Subject: TWL: Re: No-Phosphate Antifreeze Message-ID: >My owner's manual made no mention of this, other than to say you should use Volvo Penta antifreeze, but apparently it's pretty important. Naturally, VP antifreeze is spendy. OTOH, you don't change it very often. I'm not sure what acceptable alternatives there are. < I was told by the folks at Mattos Marine (Hugh) to use distilled water and a "silica-free" antifreeze, specifically Volvo Penta or Dexicool. Jim Hanlon ______________________________________ Sent with PAWSoft MiniMail Download MiniMail for FREE now! http://www.pawsoft.co.uk From Dan_Stilwell@mgic.com Tue Jun 12 10:37:17 2001 From: Dan_Stilwell@mgic.com (Dan Stilwell) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:37:17 -0500 Subject: TWL: Antifreeze Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who responded to my question regarding antifreeze additives for deisel engines. All of your responses were helpful. I thought I'd pass along the following response. I don't believe it was posted to the List . . . . ________________________________________ To: Dan_Stilwell@mgic.com From: gc16@daimlerchrysler.com Date: June 11, 2001 Subject: Re: TWL: Antifreeze Many diesel engines have wet cylinder sleeves. That is, one side of the sleeve is the cylinder bore and the other side is in contact with the coolant in the engine block. The fuel burn in a diesel is very rapid. Explosion is good description of the event. The shock wave from the explosion will cause the cylinder sleeves to ring (vibrate). The vibration can then cause cavitation of the coolant liquid on the wet side of the sleeve. The cavitation will next cause erosion of the cylinder sleeve material. Eventually eating away a hole into the cylinder. The special antifreeze habits the cavitation process. Engines like the CAT 3208 do not have wet cylinder sleeves and are not prone to the problem. From mdgoode@bwr.eastlink.ca Tue Jun 12 12:22:16 2001 From: mdgoode@bwr.eastlink.ca (M&D) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:22:16 -0400 Subject: TWL: bladder type holding tanks In-Reply-To: <20010612040018.789B42624E@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <004801c0f35b$d88f0900$df47de18@ibmam82895> While at TrawlerFest we took the opportunity to browse in the local West Marine store - wish we had one closer home!! Anyway, one of the items we saw was a heavy bladder, and the packaging said that the company also made them for holding tanks (this particular one was for water). The store didn't carry them, though. Our boat doesn't have a holding tank as we are in an area with no pump out stations (really none!) as we have no "no discharge" areas. However we realize that other places do, and we are planning a holding tank before next summer. Putting a holding tank into a finished boat isn't easy! The bladder would solve some installation problems, although some folks we have spoken to were hesitant about recommending them. We will see about taking down a wall in the engine room area and see what size rigid tank we could fit in the space behind the wall (and the space available to get it in there!). A couple of questions: we're presuming the biggest possible tank is best, is this correct? We would be cruising mostly just the two of us, but we do take others on board for short trips. What would be a minimum size? We have a manual flush toilet. So, if anyone has used the bladder type holding tanks and would like to comment, we would appreciate it. Thanks Mike & Darby Goode From Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com Tue Jun 12 11:38:48 2001 From: Igor.Kapuscinski@netapp.com (Kapuscinski, Igor) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:38:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: Leather Furniture on Boat? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F331A1D2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> We use leather furniture on our boat. The color is while (pearl). You need to pick proper leather finish so it is easy to clean. We never had a problem with absorbtion of lotions, etc. I will not buy another fabric type couch or love seat for the boat. We have a fully enclosed and air condition aft deck area. My this enclosure makes a difference. If you have an open aft deck leather may not be a good option. Igor Kapuscinski M/V Pretty Lady Chris Craft 460 Constellation From rgano@mantech-pc.com Tue Jun 12 06:46:55 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:46:55 -0000 Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear and bilge pumps... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carefully tighten the stuffing box while underway to see if you can make a difference. While you are in the process of overhauling the system during your haul out, get yourself a pair of "dripless" shaft seals. Theses things use a face seal, typically a stainless collar on the shaft mated to a stationary plastic seal on a flexible rubber hose attached to the shaft log. I went this way years ago and have had great success. Bilge pumps and their actuators are a great source of discussion material here (see archives). I have the Rule flipper switches AND an alarm hooked to each pump. Every time a pump comes on, we hear about it. Others have the alarm attached to an independent bilge level indicator (such as another Rule flipper), but whatever you do, install an alarm of some sort. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin' From alexh@olypen.com Tue Jun 12 11:35:56 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:35:56 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Oil------My thoughts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010611213103.007b0b70@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00ff01c0f357$e24bd9e0$ccf9c8d0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Captain Al Pilvinis" > Joe-----I use 15w40 as the good book says and change regularily on > schedule. Hi Al, Assuming that your engine calls for a 15w40 and that's what you're using then it would be virtually (and maybe totally) impossible to buy the "wrong" oil. As I've mentioned before, the specs for 15w40 are so tight these days that there's almost no difference among brands. For the same reason it's also acceptable to switch back and forth among brands of 15w40 according to what is available. There are, however, special cases where the choices are not quite so simple. Lately we've been discussing Detroit Diesel 2-stroke engines and Lehman type engines. DD's call for a low ash oil and there are real (potential) consequences for not using such a product. Add to this the fact that many oil refiners tend to have very similar names for all their commercial market motor oils and the fact that some dealers themselves don't stock the oil or recognize the difference. All in all I think it's valid to point out these requirements to our members. OTOH: Lehman calls for a single grade oil but not a low ash oil. Certain TWListees would like to switch to a 15w40 for their Lehman. I THINK such a switch is OK but I don't KNOW since we haven't heard the reasons behind Bob Smith's recommendation. As a result such discussions tend to get a bit technical and speculative. I would like to point out that when I get into these esoteric areas I always try to preface my remarks by saying something like "When in doubt follow the manual's instructions". I recently received a private email asking the following: "If cost was not a factor -- would you put Mobil Delvac 1 in your diesel?" My answer is a qualified yes. Unless you've got a DD 2-stroke or a Lehman a synthetic such as Mobil Delvac 1 is probably the best oil you can buy. There are some non-monetary considerations however: If you have an oil leak synthetic will usually leak more than mineral oil. Supply sources are another factor. Synthetics are still fairly rare in the marketplace and you are far less likely to find such a product at most marina chandleries. Figure on carrying enough on board to meet your needs. Of course you can add mineral oil to synthetic in a pinch but if you do that why buy the synthetic in the first place? Arcanely yours, Alex From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 12:02:31 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? In-Reply-To: <00ff01c0f357$e24bd9e0$ccf9c8d0@gte.net> Message-ID: <20010612160231.21589.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Think I sent this originally only to captain Al by mistake (Sorry AL). I havent seen it yet so here goes again. I am wondering what will the effects of salt air be on my guns while on board. Lets Please not turn this thread into legal or ethical debate about guns on board. I suspect the salt air will damage the metal. Im nto sure to what degree, or how if any way to prevent this. Anyone know? Dan Symula 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 12:08:30 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: strange "phone jack" item In-Reply-To: <00ff01c0f357$e24bd9e0$ccf9c8d0@gte.net> Message-ID: <20010612160830.42656.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> Last night while plugging in my phone, I found I have somethign I thought was a phone jack, but is not. The phone cord plugs into it just fine, like it was a jack. But following the wire, it attaches to what I had previously (and still) thought was a piece of the autpilot, a large rectangular black box. I dont have the foggiest clue what this jack thing is or why it is there. Anyone seen anything like this or have a clue as to what could be? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Thataway@aol.com Tue Jun 12 12:12:57 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:12:57 EDT Subject: TWL: Leather Furniture on Boat? Message-ID: We have a leather sofa and two leather chairs in our main salon--vinly in the dinette. The leather is much more comfortable. Even being white, staining does not seem to be a problem. Also leather in our cars--Lincoln and Cadilac--no problem. My close friend has leather in his 55 foot sail boat who has made two circumnavigations and the leather still looks good (brown). Bob Austin From Joe@JRE.com Tue Jun 12 12:19:48 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:19:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE72614F9@WINNTSRV> Hi Ron: Yes I would expect longer life from good batteries. Rolls is probably the very best, but the price difference is very substantial. We recommend Trojan because we've had very good luck with them, but I'm sure there are others similar. We do not recommend Exide. "Going to Sea" is a loaded expression. If you mean heading around the world or to very remote areas, like South America, where replacements would be very difficult to get if required, then I would agree. Additionally, in 1973 we did not have smart, 3 and 4 stage chargers or regulators. Those old ferro-resonant chargers could boil out a battery in a week. So batteries were subject to a lot of charging abuse which lowered their life expectancy accordingly. With good quality flooded batteries and a good charging/maintenance system, 10 years is a good life for a battery bank. But even one or two mistakes, like discharging the batteries below 50%, or overcharging and running low on water, can dramatically shorten the life expectancy of the battery bank. Joe & Debbie Engel Marine Computer Services & JRE Consulting, Inc. MV Freda Fly - 40' Tollycraft Tri-cabin Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: Ron Rogers [mailto:rcrogers@annapolis.net] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:07 PM To: Joe Engel Subject: Batteries Joe, Would you expect longer life from the high end Rolls/Surrette? Back in 1973, Mr. Surrette told me that he would not go to sea and place reliance upon batteries older than 5 years. Thanks for all your good input on the list, Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD From Thataway@aol.com Tue Jun 12 12:22:04 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:22:04 EDT Subject: TWL: Bladder holding tanks Message-ID: Generally not a good idea--I have done it and will not do it again. I also used a bladder fuel tank and after about 30,000 miles, I had to have a midnight diesel sale. The bladder had developed a small pinhole and was leaking diesel. The holding tanks are actually hard to install and secure. They cannot be emptied--the input and output/vents are on the top--thus leave a residual. Bob Austin From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 12 12:43:47 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:43:47 -0700 Subject: TWL: Design engineer's oil opinion Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F15@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> For what it's worth, I received a brief reply from my friend at Alaska Diesel Electric (Lugger/Northern Lights) to my query about why he recommended I run my old Lehmans on Delo 400 30wt. as opposed to a newer multi- viscosity. So here is one engine designer's opinion: 1] When your (Lehman) engines were built and the owner's manual was written, single viscosity oil was the norm. 2] Now we have newer engines along with newer oils. 3] Almost all of the newer engines suggest that at the very least multi-viscosity oils are approved, and in some cases even recommended . 4] We subscribe to the old school and we recommend SAE 30# for all our engines (Luggers, Northern Lights). 5] We have seen a few cases of low oil pressure when using multi-viscosity oil. 6] We also NEVER recommend CHANGING what type of oil you have been using. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From fburrows@mail.com Tue Jun 12 13:07:26 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:07:26 -0400 Subject: TWL: strange "phone jack" item In-Reply-To: <20010612160830.42656.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612130602.01eceec0@pop.site1.csi.com> Could it be for a remote control for the autopilot??? Frank > >Last night while plugging in my phone, I found I have >somethign I thought was a phone jack, but is not. > From bk@attglobal.net Tue Jun 12 14:36:11 2001 From: bk@attglobal.net (BK) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:36:11 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Stuffing box wear and bilge pumps... In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0404E@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: Go to yachtsurvey.com for some good advise on bilge pumps.... go large and wire direct!! bk >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Phil Ryker >> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:22 PM >> To: 'trawler-world-list@samurai.com' >> Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear and bilge pumps... >> >> >> I took out the boat this past saturday for and put about 6 hours on the >> engine. While out I had the admiral drive and I started poking around in >> the bilge, engine room and rear near the stuffing boxes wile the >> boat was at >> cruise speed just looking for things out of the ordinary. >> >> I observed that there was a definate light spray of water coming >> off of the >> stuffing box. I was under the impression that I should only see a drip >> every 60 seconds while at cruise. and a drip every 90 seconds >> while sitting >> still. Is this the case?? >> >> I also noted that all of the bilge pumps look like they have been in the >> boat longer than 5 years. Isn't the average life span of these pumps 5 >> years? If I plan on changing them what type is recommended, the >> automatic >> ones that do not need a float or the old style with the float? >> Are "Rule" >> bilge pumps the best way to go? >> >> Thanks >> >> Phil From rossflem@serv.net Tue Jun 12 16:04:25 2001 From: rossflem@serv.net (Ross Fleming) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:04:25 -0700 Subject: TWL: strange "phone jack" item In-Reply-To: <20010612160830.42656.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4dtcit449cdmk1b89s9p2s4lrn5e75p4m8@4ax.com> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:08:30 -0700 (PDT), Dan Symula wrote: >Last night while plugging in my phone, I found I have >somethign I thought was a phone jack, but is not. Some inverters use phone cord for their remote control units. ---------------------------------------- Ross Fleming rossflem@serv.net Seattle, WA From samakijoe@mediaone.net Tue Jun 12 15:57:17 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:57:17 -0400 Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? In-Reply-To: <20010612160231.21589.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010612155717.007e4570@pop.pompano.net> >I am wondering what will the effects of salt air be on >my guns while on board. Lets Please not turn this >thread into legal or ethical debate about guns on >board. > >I suspect the salt air will damage the metal. Im nto >sure to what degree, or how if any way to prevent >this. > >Anyone know? > >Dan Symula Dan: when I carry my short shot gun (never fired yet) on the boat it is stored in a water proof yellow plastic carrier. It's made like those "white water" bags you would place your clothes in on a canoe trip. It came with the gun (used) so I don't know where to get them. I will add one of those desicant bags when I think of it..jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From samakijoe@mediaone.net Tue Jun 12 15:59:58 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:59:58 -0400 Subject: TWL: strange "phone jack" item In-Reply-To: <20010612160830.42656.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010612155958.007e51e0@pop.pompano.net> At 09:08 AM 06/12/2001 -0700, Dan Symula wrote: >Last night while plugging in my phone, I found I have >somethign I thought was a phone jack, but is not. > >The phone cord plugs into it just fine, like it was a >jack. But following the wire, it attaches to what I >had previously (and still) thought was a piece of the >autpilot, a large rectangular black box. I dont have >the foggiest clue what this jack thing is or why it is >there. Anyone seen anything like this or have a clue >as to what could be? > >Dan Uncle Sam is trying to find out how many guns you have on board... (just kidding.)..jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From gbrooks@ncia.com Tue Jun 12 16:33:57 2001 From: gbrooks@ncia.com (Geo. & Jeanne Brooks) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:33:57 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: strange "phone jack" item In-Reply-To: <20010612160830.42656.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <012301c0f37f$01d05300$f679fea9@user1> Dan, I have several of these phone jacks receptacles on Nereid V including: 1) On the Cetrek 770 autopilot for the rudder position feedback cable. 2) On the 40A Statpower battery charger for the remote panel cable. 3) On the 40A Statpower battery charger for the battery temperature cable. 4) On my 3 W mobile cell phone transceiver for the handset cable connection. Regards, George Brooks Nereid V 1981 CHB 45' Tri-cabin La Conner, WA ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Symula To: Trawler World List Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:08 AM Subject: TWL: strange "phone jack" item > Last night while plugging in my phone, I found I have > somethign I thought was a phone jack, but is not. > > The phone cord plugs into it just fine, like it was a > jack. But following the wire, it attaches to what I > had previously (and still) thought was a piece of the > autpilot, a large rectangular black box. I dont have > the foggiest clue what this jack thing is or why it is > there. Anyone seen anything like this or have a clue > as to what could be? > > Dan > 37 Roughwater > "Wen I Dream" > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > From DMeyer@dallasnews.com Tue Jun 12 16:47:41 2001 From: DMeyer@dallasnews.com (Meyer, Danny) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:47:41 -0500 Subject: TWL:Phillip Rhodes Weekly Update (Jun 9-11, 2001) Message-ID: <50B430E124C27F4590A6A6DD44E85E1636C946@dmnmail1.tdmn.belo.com> Weekly Update (Jun 9-11, 2001): Down Comes the House Alternate title: "Holy @#$%&--That's a Damn Big Hole in the Deck of My Boat" Possible Newspaper Headline: "Local Man Destroys Natural Habitat--Millions of Mud Daubers Homeless" Title if wife named it: "Honey, Are You Really, REALLY Sure You Can Weld?" Hi all: O.K. . . . so my weekly updates are not always "weekly". Sorry, I really am working on it. The weekend of Jun 2-4 was spent at a motorcycle rally. Exciting stuff. Me and a friend (hi James) rode 5 or 6 hundred miles on our 20 year old bikes to attend. 22,000 motorcycles all in the same place . . . very exciting (or since I feel like being less sophisticated "kewl"). Anyway, that's another story, just suffice it to say you have to take some time off sometime. I absolutely, positively, had a blast. This weekend was highly productive. We took the deckhouse down and disposed of the remains. Although it was a lot of work to remove the remains, it was frighteningly easy to take down considering this structure is supposed to be able to take a breaking wave. Basically I made two-three foot cuts with the skill saw (carbide blades are the neatest things). I wiggled and bumped and cussed it a bit . . . I could not figure out what was holding it up (it was that pathetic). I then had a lightbulb moment and removed the small triangular plywood gusset that used to hold the (circa 70-ish?) Bendix autopilot compass. With a horrendous crash the entire deckhouse immediately caved in. This left a huge opening in the deck of this boat. Additionally, without the structure to divide up the lines it is readily obvious how big this boat is. I should have some more pictures posted soon. With some time left I broke out the plasma cutter. I removed the integral bow water tank. Yuck. I have stated it before, but let me repeat: Integral water tanks in a steel boat are a really bad idea. The tank had rusted through the watertight "crash" bulkhead, and has done significant damage to the hull plating. Not a problem, that plating was slated to be replaced anyway. Curiously the frames in the tank were in good condition. Next was forward deck removal. We are going to start the hull restoration with the forward decks, including anchor lockers and hatches. Note that this may well lead to the rear of the boat as we repair necessary things to allow us to get back to plating the forward deck, but . . . as I keep telling myself . . . that . . . is where we are starting. Anyway, the former owner had installed plywood over the steel webbing. He had bedded the plywood in a thick layer of epoxy. Unfortunately this is where his restoration had stopped, and the plywood had rotted (from the top). The result is a deck that is not strong enough and must be removed (I have stepped through in two places), but also is extremely difficult to remove. I had to take no less than an air chisel to the forward deck to clear a path through the epoxy and plywood before I could operate with the plasma cutter. Inch by painful inch I got it up. In 4 hours with the air chisel and plasma cutter I managed to remove about 8 sq feet of deck. Next (can you believe this) I went to the steel store and bought the first of many loads of plate and other stock. Next weekend we will be welding stuff. Exciting times here! Oh yes, just to illustrate the unnecessary complexity of the plumbing system we took out of this boat, I got $75.00 for the scrap copper pipe. Wow, a mini-rebate. Why, it might take me over 1.6 milli-seconds to spend that on other materials. Well, every little bit helps. See you here next week. -Daniel Meyer MS/V "Natica" 1959 44' Phillip Rhodes "Virginia Reel" Steel MotorSailor "Boat 'O Holes" Houston, Texas You can see her at http://cuagain.manilasites.com/ From Thataway@aol.com Tue Jun 12 18:12:48 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:12:48 EDT Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? Message-ID: <8d.7e22168.2857ede0@aol.com> I have carried guns on board for many years. I clean them regularly, and then spray them with LPS # 3--this is fairly close to cosmolene--which the military uses to preserve guns. I also do not handle them, keep them wraped in cloth and then plastic. There have been a few areas of slight pitting,but not significant rust and all guns work well. More recent guns have all been stainless--and as I have replaced the older guns, I have used stainless--but still keep clean and sprayed with LPS# 3. Regards, Bob Austin ( as thinking that maybe I should get one of those really big radars, and dispense with the guns.) From glennwaus@netspace.net.au Tue Jun 12 17:51:47 2001 From: glennwaus@netspace.net.au (Glenn Williams) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:51:47 +1000 Subject: TWL: Proper way to bed a Bomar Hatch Message-ID: <013d01c0f38c$ecd92a40$c4fa0fd2@glennhome> Hi Fred. Varnish first, then liberal application of Sikaflex, or the polysulfide of your choice. Cheers Glenn. From scaramouche@tvo.org Tue Jun 12 19:51:33 2001 From: scaramouche@tvo.org (George Geist) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:51:33 -0400 Subject: Re(2): TWL: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: <004401c0f2f9$bc0cae20$8deb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Message-ID: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net writes: > >. A friend who sells marine instruments for a living. >> walked around with his latest gadget. > > And his latest gadget was ??? That was over 5 yers ago and I've consumed way too much beer-diluted aluminum before and since. However he showed me the thing and just hokding it to the outside of the hull (on the hard) would show up correcly water left in the freshwater-bladdder, the few inches in th bilge (it's a wet-hollow bilge construction and of course the "moisture" in the holding tank. The hokding tank is about 3 inches thick and has a substantial airgap to the hull. Hi Oh, why not ask my friend what the instrument was? He sold his boat, moved away and is now in th Wine and Beer making business - Good Move!. From ftimpano@infi.net Tue Jun 12 22:02:21 2001 From: ftimpano@infi.net (Frank Timpano) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:02:21 -0400 Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? In-Reply-To: <20010612160231.21589.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010612220221.01b793b0@pop.infi-net.mindspring.com> Most marine guns are stainless steel to reduce the tendency to corrode. Mossberg makes a pump 12 gauge in stainless, Ruger's mini 14 comes in stainless and there are a lot of stainless revolvers available. Keep you gun in a sealed case, well oiled, if you can. Clean it regularly. Dessicant in the case can also be helpful. Or, if a revolver, buy a less expensive one and replace it periodically...most gun dealers will take them in trade on a new one. Frank At 09:02 AM 6/12/01 -0700, Dan Symula wrote: >Think I sent this originally only to captain Al by >mistake (Sorry AL). I havent seen it yet so here goes >again. > >I am wondering what will the effects of salt air be on >my guns while on board. Lets Please not turn this >thread into legal or ethical debate about guns on >board. > >I suspect the salt air will damage the metal. Im nto >sure to what degree, or how if any way to prevent >this. > >Anyone know? > >Dan Symula >37 Roughwater >"Wen I Dream" > >===== > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 >a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > From slowboat@mindspring.com Tue Jun 12 21:59:43 2001 From: slowboat@mindspring.com (Andy Clark) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:59:43 -0700 Subject: TWL: Fw: Oil Press Switch Message-ID: <007201c0f3ac$879b4bc0$8e1e1c3f@tinyus> > Jerry O'Neill wrote: > The schematic for my Ford Liehman shows three oil related senders/switches. > The one in series with the start button and the auxiliary solenoid is drawn > as a normally open switch. Since no oil pressure exists prior to pushing the > start button I am confused as to the function of this switch. It is entitled > "OIL PRESSURE SWITCH." > --------------- > Jerry, I don't know about it being in series with the start button, but if your Lehman is wired like mine, this is probably the alternator field switch. It keeps the alternator field deactivated until the oil pressure comes up, which closes the switch and turns on the alternator. That's why your tach doesn't start reading until the oil pressure comes up (the tach is driven from an aux alternator output). If the oil switch were truly in series with the start switch, nothing would happen when you pressed the button Andy Clark ANTARES CHB 34 Homeport, Everett Washington > From diplodocus1@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 13 00:34:35 2001 From: diplodocus1@worldnet.att.net (jean somerhausen) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:34:35 -0700 Subject: TWL:Phillip Rhodes Weekly Update (Jun 9-11, 2001) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B26ED5B.34FE@worldnet.att.net> On my previous boat )a steel 36 footer), the tank was integral to the keel - 100 Imp. gallons) and the treatment I gave it every five years was to coat it with "cement milk", i.e. Portland cement mixed with water to the consistency of mayonnaise and applied it with a big stucco brush. It's the system that the Dutch water companies use to treat their cast iron water pipes.... No sign of rust on the inside of the tank as the cement being somewhat "basic" reacts with the steel. john From moana@xsw.com Tue Jun 12 22:55:19 2001 From: moana@xsw.com (Charles Vollum) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:55:19 -0700 Subject: TWL: Boojum readies for relaunch Message-ID: Hi guys, Boojum is getting ready for relaunching and further sea trials. Exact scheduling is unclear at this point, but should be decided soon. Pictures at http://xsw.com/boojum/construction/c20010612 I am currently investigating shipping her home to the US west coast. So far the best quote is US $3750 + $1400 loading and unloading, for shipping from NZ to Port Richmond (near San Francisco.) This is a "bulk break" rate, and could depart on June 25th (unlikely) arriving July 20th, or depart July 21st arriving August 10th. There are other possibilities for shipping, but so far they look much more expensive. Cheers, Charles -- Charles Vollum http://xsw.com/boojum - trailerable ocean-going tugboat From PRyker@Affinity.com Tue Jun 12 23:00:59 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:00:59 -0700 Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear... worse than previously thought Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0406A@exchange.affinityla.com> Well, I went down to the boat today to change out a hose on the generator and while working in the engine room I could hear an audible "drizzle". The kind that you here when a garden hose is leaking. I tracked down the source of the problem. The port stuffing box was literally pouring water out of it. Not a lot but it was a constant stream. I sat and watched the level of water in the bilge and it will fill the bilge to the point the bilge pump will come on about every 3 hours. Very disturbing. I guess I have found that one thing that I expected to find after the purchase. The surveyor did not note this on his survey and I honestly do not know if he checked. I remembering him mentioning something about the stuffing boxes being easy to access but that was it. I will go down there tomorrow to tighten up the hose clamps around it as much as I can. Here are the questions I have: 1. Could this be an indicator that the engine is out of alignment? 2. Do these stuffing boxes normally need tightening? 3. Do the shafts have to be removed to fix this? 4. Any other advice? I really appreciate the help. I am really enjoying going through all my systems and have found a lot of little things that need to be done. This is a little bigger than I can tackle myself. Thanks Phil From fburrows@mail.com Tue Jun 12 23:08:49 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:08:49 -0400 Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612220221.01b793b0@pop.infi-net.mindspring.c om> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612230029.01d41280@pop.site1.csi.com> I have had a 12 gauge Winchester Stainless Steel Marine model shotgun aboard since 1986. I keep it in one of the regular fabric cases they sell at the gun stores and clean and oil it once every year. I just did it again a month ago and there is no sign of any corrosion or rust. Frank > >I am wondering what will the effects of salt air be on > >my guns while on board. Lets Please not turn this > >thread into legal or ethical debate about guns on > >board. From jalexander@ticz.com Tue Jun 12 22:27:14 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:27:14 -0400 Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010612222714.007c5910@pop.ticz.com> Beware that the aforementioned "stainless" weapons have mostly stainless barrels and receivers, but many of the internal parts of the firing mechanism are mild steel and still require adequate measures to prevent corrosion. I have had good success at saturating the "internals" in WD40 and allowing them to dry before storing the weapon. I would not recommend the use of "heavier" oils or greases on the internal parts as they tend to "gum" up when they dry out. Jim Alexander From doughoople@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 15:34:40 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:34:40 +0100 Subject: TWL: bladder type holding tanks In-Reply-To: <004801c0f35b$d88f0900$df47de18@ibmam82895> Message-ID: <3B266ED0.9D5C0391@earthlink.net> So, if anyone has used the bladder type holding tanks and would like to comment, we would appreciate it. I'd, um, stay away from bladder holding tanks. We had one that came with our first sailboat, and it never failed to make us sick from the stench. The problem with them is that they hold their water in an oxygen-free environment, and anyone who's looked up Peggie Hall's web page knows what that means. Our problem was compounded by the fact that the bathroom sink emptied straight into the holding bladder, effectively doubling as a vent into the interior!!! Installed that way by a reputable marine plumber, no less. We'd set sail, start to heel over and WHAMMO, all that stirred-up anaerobic stink would bulldoze its way into every corner of the boat. We sold the boat and the stink went away. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA. From doughoople@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 15:50:28 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:50:28 +0100 Subject: TWL: heads up Message-ID: <3B267283.FAC3C6E5@earthlink.net> OK, now, I know that at least one of you listugees has rebuilt a Groco Model K head. The pump handle is attached to a shaft that enters the back of the toilet horizontally. The Groco instructions call that the operating arm shaft, if I'm not mistaken. I can't get that shaft out, and I'm wondering whether it's held in by a retaining bolt, or if it's held simply by friction. The instructions sort of imply that there's a bolt holding it in, but the diagram isn't clear on that, and the instructions seem to be referring to a different model. Anyone know how to get the danged thing out? Thanks. If I can get this information anywhere, I can get it here. Amazing list, y'all. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From fburrows@mail.com Tue Jun 12 23:48:59 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:48:59 -0400 Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear... worse than previously thought In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0406A@exchange.affinity la.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612233608.025060d0@pop.site1.csi.com> Phil: I doubt that the hose clamps are the problem unless one has broken. You can loosen the locknut and tighten up the coupling to try and reduce the leak. With the severity of the leak you are describing you will probably need to add packing. I have had tremendous success with a product called "Drip Free" that is sold my West and others. It is a kit with Teflon grease. I have also heard also great things about a new packing made by Gore-Tex. You do not have to pull the boat. My suggestion is to hire a competent marine mechanic (preferable one recommended by fellow boaters in your marina) and ask him to install either the "Drip Free" or the Gore-Tex stuff. Then watch him (or her) carefully so you can do it yourself next time. If you have good access it should not take him no more than a hour. It is really no big deal but since you are apprehensive, my vote is to let a pro do it the first time and watch carefully and ask questions so you will have the confidence to do it yourself the next time. With the old packing you normally have to tighten them up once a year and pack them every 5 or so. With the new stuff you can go for 5 years with no maintenance. They also make a new product to replace the stuffing box that uses a bearing and seal. It is a big deal to go this route and you would have to probably pull the boat to use the seal and bearing type. I think the new packings are a great compromise. Frank Burrows >1. Could this be an indicator that the engine is out of alignment? >2. Do these stuffing boxes normally need tightening? >3. Do the shafts have to be removed to fix this? >4. Any other advice? > >I really appreciate the help. I am really enjoying going through all my >systems and have found a lot of little things that need to be done. This is >a little bigger than I can tackle myself. > >Thanks > >Phil From jgaquin@ici.net Tue Jun 12 23:55:56 2001 From: jgaquin@ici.net (John Gaquin) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:55:56 -0400 Subject: TWL: Yet another stuffing question..... Message-ID: <00c801c0f3bc$c19f07c0$9115b4cf@computer> I, too, am looking at repacking both stuffing boxes before launch. I've never done this, or seen it done. I do know that this is one thing I'm going to have to pay someone to do, as it is physically impossible for me to reach to the appropriate place under the engines (Chryslers - Paragons - V-drives). I simply cannot get there -- will have to hire a skinny little person. I am perplexed. Is it possible to do this without lifting the engine/transmission? It doesn't look too easy. Alternatively, is it possible to repack from the outside with the boat on the hard? That's easy access. Thanks. Regards, John Gaquin m/v Brefnie Queen, 32' Luhrs in the shed at Kazmiera Marina Haverhill, MA From zeekstah@ktc.com Wed Jun 13 00:03:48 2001 From: zeekstah@ktc.com (Zeke Anderson) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:03:48 -0500 Subject: TWL: Allison Message-ID: <000201c0f3bd$f28d7820$41c6a3d1@uwqbc> Ahoy Houston, Do you have a problem? Zeke Anderson PT 38 Texas Cookin' Rockport Tx From PRyker@Affinity.com Wed Jun 13 00:08:07 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:08:07 -0700 Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear... worse than previously thought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0406E@exchange.affinityla.com> Frank, I have exchanged email with you in the past. I know you are in Piney Narrows. I am just down the road from you at Scott's marine (only covered shed I could find). I am looking for a good detroit diesel guy in our area that can do things like shaft alignments and stuffing glands. If you know of anyone or any good yards I would really appreciate it. Thanks Phil From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 13 00:47:19 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:47:19 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Stuffing box wear... worse than previously thought In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0406A@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: <002d01c0f3c3$f2536da0$72eb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Hi Phil > I will go down there tomorrow to tighten up the hose clamps around it as much as I can ** There should be 2 hose clamps on each end of the hose . Make them tight - but not overtight - 0r they will cut into the hose - which you do not want - make sure the clamp bands are Stainless AND that the tightening screws are also stainless - check with a magnet - replace if in doubt ... > 1. Could this be an indicator that the engine is out of alignment? **** Always worth checking - usually takes 1/2 hr or so for each engine - loosen the shaft coupling and use the feeler gage - or get someone to show you how the first time .. -Doing it alone the first time may take 2 to 3 hrs ...still it is not hard . I like to use a little lock tite ( blue - med strength ) on the bolts of the coupling when they are retightened .. > 2. Do these stuffing boxes normally need tightening? They are simple packing glands - and yes they do need tightening periodically - but a. do not overtighten b. depending on which type you have - if they are the type with two bolts on each side of a flange - make sure that the flange is even on each side - not that the bolts are of the same degree of tightness --- sometimes this variety will 'cock ' slightly if one side is tightened more than the other - putting uneven pressure on the packing .. doesn't have to be real exact - just pretty close ... The other type with a large nut will not require this care - but will require the use of two rather large wrenchs - or square wrenches ... which are sold at Home Depot amoung other places ... > 3. Do the shafts have to be removed to fix this? NO > 4. Any other advice? I would suggest checking the packing itself - since you have no idea what size it is or of what composition - especially since one is leaking so badly - since the labor required to check it is almost as much as necessary to renew it - renew it ... any experienced marina mechanic that I know of will be comfortable renewing ( changing ) the packing while the boat is in the water - but I would not suggest that you should try it on your first attempt .. the labor should be of an hour or so - actually both could be repacked in an hour - unless there is a problem .. - It is also likely that the yard mechanic could look at the shaft size and size of the stuffing box and tell you the likely size of the packing - so you could get the good stuff - if the marina does not stock it .. I would also check the glands of the rudders . It might be helpful to you to shop the local marine store book area to pick out a handbook that provides diagrams of the construction of much of this sort of equiptment - along with some instruction as to its' maintaince - or ask at the store to look at one and learn how it is assembled . . Sorry I am unable to suggest a book - but most of my stuff is so darn old ( like it's owner ) it is out of print ! Welcome to the world of boating - check everything and take the word of no one that is is 'good enough '- unless you would trust them with your first born - they will most likely not be out there with you when the darn thing breaks ..or lets go .. All the Best Ken From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 13 01:07:22 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 01:07:22 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Yet another stuffing question..... In-Reply-To: <00c801c0f3bc$c19f07c0$9115b4cf@computer> Message-ID: <003d01c0f3c6$bd3adec0$72eb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> John, V drives were designed by the devil himself - unless the engine compartment allows access - the engine and transmission have to be lifted to reach the stuffing box - which is sometimes under the engine - they cannot be repacked from outside the boat . While the engine is up check everything that you can see - especially the oil coolers which on Chryslers with V drives are sometimes on the outside - unreachable and unseeable -- they should be repalced at about 5 yr intervals - and now might be the time to replace --Just had one at my marina let go last week - owner was able to shut down the engine within a minute which saved the engine - but still made one heck of a mess in the engine compartment .. If your oil coolers are on the inside - count yourself lucky .. All the Best Ken From adagio@our.net.au Wed Jun 13 03:02:05 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:02:05 +1000 Subject: TWL: Boojum readies for relaunch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Charles, > Boojum is getting ready for relaunching Great pics, what a pretty little ship! I'll bet you're chewing your fingernails awaiting her arrival. I was happy to see the Spade, hope you like that anchor as much as we do (and will let alert us should it let you down). I also noted the daytank site gauge. That looks like a robust commercial gauge - what is the source? Is your daytank as short in height as the gauge indicates? Ours is almost 3-ft high, tho I really only care about verifying the top half, the level being controlled by automatic system. I just don't have independent way to double check the level-control system is working. No doubt you're wondering why we don't just run one of our Tank Tender tubes to the daytank? Because the Tender requires top of tank to be below Tender unit (sad aspect of physics). Cheers, Steve From adagio@our.net.au Wed Jun 13 03:03:41 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:03:41 +1000 Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612220221.01b793b0@pop.infi-net.mindspring.com> Message-ID: I've found that a very good way to protect mild steel, tool steel, etc. is to wrap the item in Daubert Uni-Wrap A VCI paper. See This paper is amazingly effective. Don't send me a bill if this doesn't work, but I would guess that a part well-wrapped in Uni-Wrap, then vacuum-sealed would be in good shape after a couple of years. Besides the protection, what is really nice about Uni-Wrap is that the part isn't gummy or oily. PS - a good vacuum-bagger is a nearly-essential applicance in our view. We use ours constantly, and not just for tools and spares . We also pack food with it, including anything going into the freezer for a length of time. Steve Darden s/v Adagio GPO 2046 Hobart, TAS 7001 Australia 0415/782-305 http://www.adagiomarine.com From DMeyer@dallasnews.com Wed Jun 13 08:25:09 2001 From: DMeyer@dallasnews.com (Meyer, Danny) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:25:09 -0500 Subject: TWL:Phillip Rhodes Weekly Update (Jun 9-11, 2001) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <50B430E124C27F4590A6A6DD44E85E1636C948@dmnmail1.tdmn.belo.com> (snip) from jean s. I gave it every five years was to coat it with "cement milk", i.e. Portland cement mixed with water to the consistency of mayonnaise and applied it with a big stucco brush. (endsnip) I have heard of the "cement wash" treatment, but have had no experience with it. Did it impact water taste/quality? Did you have to do anything before a "new" treatment . . . i.e. remove the old? Unfortunately this boat, having been pretty thoroughly neglected for the majority of its life, probably rarely got any treatment inside the tanks. The access hatch of the bow water tank would have been extremely difficult to reach with the accommodation in place. The bilge plating was also shockingly thin (about 1/3 of its original thickness)--indicating even the bilges were pretty regularly neglected, then occasionally the scale/rust chipped off and some paint slapped on. We are of course, replacing the bad plating. Our intention is to replace the integral water and waste tanks with plastic tanks if we can find somebody to make quality tanks in the shapes we want. We will keep the integral diesel tanks with some modifications and the addition of 2 integral "day tanks". The plating inside them was in excellent condition. Daniel Meyer 1959 44' Phillip Rhodes "Virginia Reel" Steel MotorSailor "Boat 'O Holes" Houston, Texas You can see her at http://cuagain.manilasites.com/ From mdgoode@bwr.eastlink.ca Wed Jun 13 09:46:49 2001 From: mdgoode@bwr.eastlink.ca (M&D) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:46:49 -0400 Subject: TWL: bladder tanks/helpful site In-Reply-To: <20010613040016.D1E902624D@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <002201c0f40f$4b8a1040$df47de18@ibmam82895> Good morning! We received several very helpful and detailed replies about our bladder type holding tank question: in a word, the answer was NO! Back to the drawing board. However one helpful reply also included the web site www.boatered.com which is an excellent site with lots of helpful info and forums. We hadn't seen it before - maybe we're just the last to know! Windlass installation should be complete today - not easy since the person who built the boat was thinner than Mike! Darby & Mike 35' Rosborough Custom (soon to be officially named -waiting for Gov't registration to go through) From TOMC3111@aol.com Wed Jun 13 08:46:30 2001 From: TOMC3111@aol.com (TOMC3111@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:46:30 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #346 Message-ID: <30.1638b8b3.2858baa6@aol.com> I have changed my email from TOMC3111@aol.com to LibertyMY@visto.com What do I need to do to continue receiving the Trawler World List. Thanks, Tom Cannon From Sloanr@d-e.org Wed Jun 13 09:33:04 2001 From: Sloanr@d-e.org (Ralph Sloan) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:33:04 -0400 Subject: TWL: Chesapeake Cruise In-Reply-To: <20010613040016.D1E902624D@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <200106131330.JAA10425@bergen.org> We are planning a 3+ week cruise of the Chesapeake this July- Augustending up at the Monk 36 Rendezvous in Crisfield MD. We will be leaving NY, going down the NJ coast, up the Deleware, and across the Canal. Have consulted several cruising guides for anchorages and marinas but don't have an overall "tour" in mind. Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks From WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL Wed Jun 13 09:35:36 2001 From: WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL (Whicher Robert E BATH) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:35:36 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Chesapeake Cruise Message-ID: <4E5A67A1565AD311A62D0008C79137A80243C96C@exch.sbath.navy.mil> From: Ralph Sloan We are planning a 3+ week cruise of the Chesapeake My wife and I are also planning on 3-4 week cruise in Chesapeake during September and would welcome your "Favorite Anchorages" Bob Whicher From almiller@n-jcenter.com Wed Jun 13 09:46:12 2001 From: almiller@n-jcenter.com (Dr. Al Miller) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:46:12 -0400 Subject: TWL: Stuffing box wear... worse than previously thought Message-ID: <002d01c0f40f$36197a20$14c935d8@oemcomputer> Phil and John, I just repacked my stuffing box (my first). I did it with the boat out of the water so it was easier. My stuffing box was leaking and adjusting didn't help. I replaced the conventional flax packing using a combination of Tefpack and the Moldable Drip-Less packing. http://westernpacifictrading.com/index.php3 is a website that has some good information on packing. The technical page -- http://westernpacifictrading.com/tech.php3?uid=990304798 My stuffing box had a water injection line going into the shaft. Since the Tefpack and the Moldable Drip-Less packing does not require water, I was advised by Jack Laurain who makes the Drip-Less packing to plug the line and to monitor the temperature after repacking. When I removed the water injection line barb fitting I found it completely blocked by carbon. Over the years it collected a lot of carbon and was completely closed. If your stuffing box has water injection -- you should check to see if it is clear and water is available if you repack with standard flax packing. Failure to have this water may cause over heating and premature failure of the packing. When I was tightening the hose clamps one broke -- inspecting the other clamps showed rust on the bottom side (that wasn't visible) -- I changed all 4 of the clamps. If you are going to do the job yourself -- take your time and check everything out and clean the shaft before repacking. Tools required, large slip joint pliers or wrench and a tool that looks like a cork screw to get the old packing out. Frank Burrows suggestion on hiring a competent marine mechanic is sound advice. I have know connection with Tefpack or Moldable Drip-Less packing. Al Palm Coast, Fl M/V Pacific Trawler 37 "Pleasant Moment" E-Mail: almiller@n-jcenter.com From RCSmith@garrett-smith.com Wed Jun 13 10:10:19 2001 From: RCSmith@garrett-smith.com (R C Smith Jr) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:10:19 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE72614F9@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: FWIW, I have bought 8 Rolls batteries at 55% of list, delivered to the engine room. I think you can get to 50% but you will not get them delivered for that price. Bob ________________ M/Y Susan Marie Hatteras 58 LRC Chesapeake Bay > From: Joe Engel > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:19:48 -0700 > To: 'Ron Rogers' , "Trawler World List (E-mail)" > > Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries > > Rolls is probably the > very best, but the price difference is very substantial. From Thataway@aol.com Wed Jun 13 10:44:47 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:44:47 EDT Subject: TWL: Salt air affecting metal? Message-ID: After reading Jim's post ref cleaning and oiling, I must clarify my earlier post: I spray the entire external surfaces with LPS# 3 (including the bore), but do not use LPS on the internal mechanism--there I use gun oil. Jim is correct that the LPS #3 does dry out and leave a grease. However I do use gun grease when lubricating slides and bolts--this does not dry out. Bob Austin From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 11:02:14 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:02:14 -0400 Subject: TWL: Packing Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010613110214.007bcb00@earthlink.net> Phil------------first tighten the packing nut, if that doesn't stop it put in additional packing and snug up, that will fix it. You don't have to pull the boat, do it at the dock. No need to take out the old packing, it wears away from use and thats why its leaking. Very little water will come into the boat. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From LRZeitlin@aol.com Wed Jun 13 11:13:13 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:13:13 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Lexan vs. Plexiglas Message-ID: <11f.42f209.2858dd09@aol.com> In a message dated 6/13/01 4:04:18 AM, Bill writes: << On another note, I just finished replacing the windshield on my fly bridge. I used 3/16 inch, tinted Lexan. I used the old pieces for a pattern; cut the stuff with a 10 tooth/inch saber saw, and sanded the edges down to 600 grit. The Lexan seems to be more flexible than the original Plexiglas as I was able to fit the sharpest curves without heating it. It turned out to be a much easier job than I had anticipated. >> Lexan (polycarbonate) is great stuff (although expensive). It has MUCH higher impact resistance than ordinary Plexiglass (acrylic) and is virtually unbreakable in a marine environment. I would use it to reglaze all window areas directly exposed to possible green water impact. However it is less abrasion resistant than Plexiglass and scratches readily. It may well be overkill for an exposed flying bridge windscreen where it does not have to resist solid water impact. Most plastics suppliers sell abrasion resistant carbonate and acrylic sheeting for exterior glazing that will resist scratching better than ordinary plastics. These are coated with silicon layers on both sides and would be best for windscreens with wipers. Replace your own windows. It ain't brain surgery. Larry Zeitlin From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 11:13:48 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:13:48 -0400 Subject: TWL: Bye Bye for a while Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010613111348.007b6c10@earthlink.net> Well its that time again, off to the Bahamas for a couple of months, will be back around the end of August. I will be here until Saturday in case anyone needs any help. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From pkoch@dtex.com Wed Jun 13 11:22:47 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:22:47 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Lexan vs. Plexiglas Message-ID: Does Lexan or Plexiglas resist UV radiation? Paul -snip- layers on both sides and would be best for windscreens with wipers. Replace your own windows. It ain't brain surgery. Larry Zeitlin From rgano@mantech-pc.com Wed Jun 13 06:21:51 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:21:51 -0000 Subject: TWL: bladder type holding tanks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike, as several have said, don't do the bladder thing. This is one installation you want done RIGHT. Get a real waste tank with the remote (electric) level indicators. Also your comment about being in an area of no "no discharge" is probably a misconception. Remember, there is no discharge within 3 nautical miles of the US coast, whether or not there are any pump-out facilities in your area. If the Coast Guard boards you, you had better have the head locked in such a manner that nobody can pump it overboard. You need to get legal on this issue, and a holding tank is the only way outside of some really expensive USCG-approved waste system. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin' From LRZeitlin@aol.com Wed Jun 13 11:37:00 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:37:00 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Guns and salt air Message-ID: <4b.cd12191.2858e29c@aol.com> Dan, Unprotected guns will gradually corrode in salt air. I am told by my friendly neighborhood mechanical engineer and bridge designer that what happens is that microscopic salt granules are left on the metal as spray evaporates, then ordinary condensation redissolves the salt and the brine works on the metal. This is a worse problem if you actually use your guns in a salt air environment. We used to shoot skeet from the back deck in remote anchorages in the Fla Keys, both for fun and to warn any prospective drug pirates hiding in the mangroves that we were armed. Our answer to corrosion was to keep the guns WELL oiled and store them in an airtight plastic carry case. Our particular model was made by Pelican. The guns broke down so they would fit an 18" long case. I suppose the real and expensive answer would be to buy the expensive SS models made for the marine environment. I'm not sure how they protect the spring steel components though. I guess they figure that out of sight is out of mind. Regards, Larry Zeitlin From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jun 13 12:19:29 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:19:29 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: heads up Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F23@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:50:28 +0100 From: Doug Hoople Subject: TWL: heads up >The pump handle is attached to a shaft that enters the back of the toilet horizontally. The Groco instructions call that the operating arm shaft, if I'm not mistaken. I can't get that shaft out, and I'm wondering whether it's held in by a retaining bolt, or if it's held simply by friction. I haven't rebuilt a Model K, but I have rebuilt a pair of model EBs twice in the last few years . It's possible that Groco used the same basic internal design in both toilets. The pump shaft, or operating arm shaft, has the handle on one end and the main diaphragm attachment at the other end. There is a key at the outboard end that mates with a slot in the handle attachment and a slot in the inboard end that mates with a key in the diaphragm attachment. The diaphragm attachment (activator might be a better word) is clamped to the shaft with a bolt. Obviously, you can't pull the shaft out until the diaphragm activator is released from the shaft by loosening the clamping bolt, but you've probably already gotten that far. The shaft itself is simply shoved into its horizontal hole, at least on the Model EB. There is a rubber collar which serves as a seal pressed into the outboard end of the hole. Depending on its condition, this collar can squeeze down very tightly on the shaft, making it difficult to remove. But on the Model EB, at least, there is nothing actually retaining the shaft in the hole once the clamping bolt on the diaphragm actuator has been backed off. The only way I have been able to pull the shaft out after releasing the diaphragm actuator clamp is to reinstall the handle fitting on the outboard end of the shaft, which gives me something to grip. Then I simply start rotating the shaft back and forth while pulling out at the same time. The shaft will gradually back out of the hole. The clamp on the diaphragm activator can make it tough to remove the shaft, especially if the key is a real tight fit in the shaft. I usually have to lever the activator off the inboard end of the shaft as I'm working it out. When reinstalling the shaft, or installing a new shaft and collar, it helps to put a bit of grease on the inboard end of the shaft. This will help it slide through the collar easier, but I find I still have to temporarily attach the handle fitting and work the shaft back in by rotating it back and forth while pushing in on it. I have no idea if the internals of a Model K are similar to the Model EB, but perhaps you will find this helpful. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From Mrmoo5@aol.com Wed Jun 13 12:27:19 2001 From: Mrmoo5@aol.com (Mrmoo5@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:27:19 EDT Subject: TWL: Coolant Reservoir Message-ID: What are the collective thoughts on adding a coolant reservoir to a marine diesel engine? Trustworthy or not? Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 12:49:44 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: holding tanks Message-ID: <20010613164944.73234.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Recent thread on holding tanks got me curious. Im having trouble telling what level of fullness the tank is at. Looking at it doesnt help. Someone mentioend an electronic device that monitors the level? One thing for anyone thinking of putting in a tank. My boat has what I think is a good sized holding tank, 40 gallons at least. This takes up valuable storage space. There is a tradeoff of course in that you need to empty it more often if you get a smaller one. Think ahead for what type of crusing you will do and if there are pumpout stations nearby. My marina actually has two pumpout faciliteis. I am contemplating removing the large tank and replacing with a smaller one. Havent decided yet. Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jcw@rti.org Wed Jun 13 12:58:47 2001 From: jcw@rti.org (Wright, James C.) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:58:47 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Coolant Reservoir Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF07A53D@rtints5.rti.org> Bob Smith recommends them for Lehmans. I don't understand the "trustworthy" question, in that the reservoir keeps you from losing coolant. If the hose running to the reservoir were to break, you'd be no worse off than you were without the reservoir. -jim Ralph asks: What are the collective thoughts on adding a coolant reservoir to a marine diesel engine? Trustworthy or not? From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 05:01:51 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:01:51 +0100 Subject: TWL: Re: heads up In-Reply-To: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F23@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <3B272BFE.7599F3C5@earthlink.net> Thanks, Marin, for a very detailed explanation! My problem was that there's a leak at the shaft, and I wanted to get it fixed without pulling the head apart. No can do. I've got the head apart now, and have found the assembly in the back there that's the key to the whole thing. I'm glad, though, that you completed the explanation. It's clear that there's some pushing and pulling and twisting and turning and swearing to do before it all comes apart. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From jalexander@ticz.com Wed Jun 13 12:18:31 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:18:31 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Coolant Reservoir Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010613121831.007c9cb0@pop.ticz.com> I agree with the last comment re: the Lehmans. I cannot speak to other installations, but before I added the coolant recovery resevoir to my Lehman I could not keep the system "topped" off because it would always end up "belching" the excess out the pressure cap and the result was always a wet bilge that reeked of coolant. After installation of the recovery system, which on the Lehman requires removal of the existing fill neck and replacing it using epoxy (very easily accomplished) I never had the problem again and also had the advantage of being able to visually observe the coolant level without having to remove the pressure cap, especially helpful when the engine is hot. Jim Alexander From jurban@netsecuritypro.com Wed Jun 13 13:32:15 2001 From: jurban@netsecuritypro.com (Joe Urban) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:32:15 -0400 Subject: TWL: Coolant Reservoir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106131732.NAA11123@typhoon.pop3now.com> On my current boat both Volvo's and the Wetserbeke gen Set have reservoirs. They keep the cooling system free of air, which is a good thing for the engine. I would add them if feasible. Joe Urban Punches - Senator 35 Lancaster, VA From SobreElMar@aol.com Wed Jun 13 14:02:26 2001 From: SobreElMar@aol.com (SobreElMar@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:02:26 EDT Subject: TWL: Oil question for Detroit 2 cycle diesels Message-ID: <21.d07b8ad.285904b2@aol.com> I have been following the thread about the various oils to use in diesels. I have a pair of 30 year old 8V53 diesels that run just great. I have been using either Delvac or most recent oil change was Delo 400 - 40wt. Mechanic who last analysed the oil suggested I use 40wt. for these older engines. Port engine does have a touch of smoke on start up, but as soon as she is warm, no smoke. Starboard engine never smokes. Seems to me someone suggested that DElo 400 was not good for these engines, that one should use Delo 100. Anyone care to comment and tell me why? The oil is changed regularly at 100 hours. Capt. Mike Schachter Sobre El Mar - 55' DeFever raised pilothouse passagemaker From jim@mccorison.com Wed Jun 13 14:05:09 2001 From: jim@mccorison.com (Jim McCorison) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:05:09 -0700 Subject: TWL: Fuel Cell Announcement by GM Message-ID: <3B27AB55.E05DA442@mccorison.com> How timely. Just a couple days ago we were discussing fuel cells. Some of the questions were how soon, and are any major players backing them. An article published on MSNBC on June 12 talks about GM's commitment to this future. Only time will tell if their involvement is a serious push or just window dressing. If you're curious, the article can be found at http://www.msnbc.com/news/586532.asp?cp1=1 None of the related firms speak for me, so I don't speak for them. Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From gbrooks@ncia.com Wed Jun 13 14:16:32 2001 From: gbrooks@ncia.com (Geo. & Jeanne Brooks) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:16:32 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Coolant Reservoir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007f01c0f434$fa318540$0c44fea9@user1> Mounting a coolant recovery reservoir for the genset outside the sound shield makes it easy to do a visual check of coolant level. I marked the normal cold and hot levels on the reservoir with a Sharpie. Regards, George Brooks Nereid V 1981 45' CHB Tri-cabin La Conner, Wa > What are the collective thoughts on adding a coolant reservoir to a marine > diesel engine? Trustworthy or not? From jkenyon@ssc.wisc.edu Wed Jun 13 14:58:47 2001 From: jkenyon@ssc.wisc.edu (Jeff L. Kenyon) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:58:47 -0500 Subject: TWL: Vacuum Bagger (was salt air affecting metal??) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010613135847.007db1f0@facstaff.wisc.edu> Hi Steve - We are considering a vacuum bagger - Do you have any recommendations? Jeff *************************************************************************** PM 6/13/01 +1000, Steve Darden wrote: <> > >PS - a good vacuum-bagger is a nearly-essential applicance in our view. We >use ours constantly, and not just for tools and spares . We also pack >food with it, including anything going into the freezer for a length of >time. > >Steve Darden <> *************************************************************************** ****************************************** Jeff and Suzanne Kenyon Baloo (Krogen 42 - Hull Number 44) ****************************************** From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 16:04:29 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: Vacuum Bagger (was salt air affecting metal??) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010613135847.007db1f0@facstaff.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <20010613200429.60060.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Please let me know also. --- "Jeff L. Kenyon" wrote: > Hi Steve - > > We are considering a vacuum bagger - Do you have any > recommendations? > > Jeff > > *************************************************************************** > PM 6/13/01 +1000, Steve Darden wrote: > <> > > > >PS - a good vacuum-bagger is a nearly-essential > applicance in our view. We > >use ours constantly, and not just for tools and > spares . We also pack > >food with it, including anything going into the > freezer for a length of > >time. > > > >Steve Darden > <> > *************************************************************************** > > ****************************************** > Jeff and Suzanne Kenyon > Baloo (Krogen 42 - Hull Number 44) > ****************************************** > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From alexh@olypen.com Wed Jun 13 17:11:42 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:11:42 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Oil question for Detroit 2 cycle diesels In-Reply-To: <21.d07b8ad.285904b2@aol.com> Message-ID: <015301c0f44e$551f1260$73cfeed0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: > > Seems to me someone suggested that DElo 400 was not good for these engines, that one should use Delo 100. Anyone care to comment and tell me why? > Hi Mike, DELO 400 40 is just fine for these engines. DELO 100 40 is the primary recommendation because of its low sulfated ash level but it can be hard to find at the marina store. DELO 400 40 is more readily available and its ash level is low enough to satisfy the DD requirements. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't worry, be happy. Fuggediboudit. Repetitively yours, Alex From Rollsdoc@aol.com Wed Jun 13 18:52:35 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:52:35 EDT Subject: TWL: Coolant Reservoir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <105.4c20176.285948b3@aol.com> In a message dated 6/13/01 12:28:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Mrmoo5@aol.com writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> A coolant recovery system is very good. They require a cap that is designed for a recovery system. That is why the older Lehmans need the neck change to accommodate a recovery style cap. Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH From adagio@our.net.au Wed Jun 13 18:58:08 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:58:08 +1000 Subject: TWL: Vacuum Bagger (was salt air affecting metal??) In-Reply-To: <20010613200429.60060.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > --- "Jeff L. Kenyon" wrote: >> We are considering a vacuum bagger - Do you have any >> recommendations? Our is a Foodsaver, by Tilia. Italian made, sold in US (and Australia, so coverage must be pretty good). Note that the robustness of the appliance is only part of solution. The other is the quality of the bagging stock. The Foodsaver material is really tough. Cheers, Steve From adagio@our.net.au Wed Jun 13 18:59:22 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:59:22 +1000 Subject: TWL: holding tanks In-Reply-To: <20010613164944.73234.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on 6/14/01 2:49, Dan Symula at adventuresoul@yahoo.com wrote: > Im > having trouble telling what level of fullness the tank > is at. Looking at it doesnt help. Someone mentioend an > electronic device that monitors the level? A Tank Tender works. It has a purge function especially for the black water application - in case any thing blocks the air tube. Cheers, Steve From adagio@our.net.au Wed Jun 13 19:02:45 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:02:45 +1000 Subject: TWL: salt air affecting metal?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A quick followup to my earlier post regarding Daubert VCI anti-corrosion wraps. I forgot to mention that we use the Uni-wrap A paper because it is multi-metal and we preferred to only give space to one type. This is also the only VCI type paper I've tested. There are a number of ferrous specific inhibitor papers available from Daubert, and likely from competitors in the field (I haven't researched others). Per the Daubert literature, the more specific the target for the inhibitor the more effective it is. (Writing this motivates me to order a sample of the best ferrous-target paper or film and just give it a try vs. the multi-metal paper - we live in a very good testbed for corrosion). I just did a quick tour of the Daubert website. In their FAQ they claim "VCI will provide complete protection for years" absent reference to any specific product. I can't comment at to years, as I haven't tested beyond a year yet, but I do know what my single therefore anecdotal test showed: Four mild steel 1/2" "rebar" rods, ground bright on bench grinder. Two were left bare as "controls". Two were wrapped in about 6" of Uni-Wrap A, sort of Xmas present style, with ends of wrap folded over on the inside. So the rod-ends have a single layer, the rest has several layers. The paper wrap was fixed with a single rubber band. The four rods were placed in a 8x10" plastic thow-away container (a Kiwi bait bin), whose bottom was drilled out with a number of 1/2" vent holes (hoping to let the salt air circulate around the rods). Then the bin was set on a log-top about 3-ft dry of the high tide line on our beach in Bay of Islands. I don't have my test logs aboard Adagio, so I'll have to rely upon memory for the test interval. About 9 months is my recall. Less than 12 months, more than 6 months for sure. Anyhow, when I unwrapped the Uni-wrap samples they were still bright metal. The "control" rods were heavily rusted (messy). So far we have about 10 months results on Adagio's tools & spares we've done the same treatment on. These range from bare wraps like the test rods above, to wrapped parts in vacuum bags. So far, so good. No rust at all on the wrapped bits. OTOH I continue to find rust on tools that I haven't wrapped because I use them all the time. All of these tools have been treated with Boeshield T-9, the best coating I know of that still allows the tool to function and isn't grossly sticky. I do kinda miss the bench grinder with 3M fine abrasive foam wheel for removing the rust . The bench grinder didn't make the weight-benefit cutoff, but I may lose my resolve on the weight after another couple of years of de-rusting. Notes on tests I did on other anti-corrosion treatments are in the TWL archives. We use all of the "winners" aboard, and keeping looking for magic bullets better than those tested, so please let us know... Cheers, Steve GPO 2046 Hobart, TAS 7001 AUSTRALIA www.adagiomarine.com From adagio@our.net.au Wed Jun 13 19:55:14 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:55:14 +1000 Subject: TWL: Re: Lexan vs. Plexiglas In-Reply-To: <11f.42f209.2858dd09@aol.com> Message-ID: on 6/14/01 1:13, LRZeitlin@aol.com at LRZeitlin@aol.com wrote: > Lexan (polycarbonate) is great stuff (although expensive). It has MUCH higher > impact resistance than ordinary Plexiglass (acrylic) and is virtually > unbreakable in a marine environment Sorry, but I don't agree with that statement. In the archives are some earlier posts that go into the strength of glazing materials in some detail. Below are the parameters for tempered glass, acrylic and lexan. When you run the Lloyds engineering method for Adagio's front windows, they need to be 34mm in acrylic, 40mm in lexan. The impact resistance of Lexan relates to high-velocity projectiles, not to Cheers, Steve Please view in a fixed-width font such as Monaco or Courier. +---+----------------------------------+----------+-----------+-----------+ | | | Temp | Acrylic | Lexan | +---+----------------------------------+----------+-----------+-----------+ | | | Glass | | | | | | (kPa) | (kPa) | (kPa) | | | Allowable working stress - Sigma | 58000 | 24725 | 19654 | | | Young's Modulus - E | 68.9E+06 | 30.0E+05 | 19.0E+05 | | | Ultimate tensile bending stress | 17.5E+04 | 74.6E+03 | 59.3E+03 | | | Density (also 1mm/sq.meter) | 2.60 | 1.20 | 1.20 | | | Weight/cu.meter | 2600 | 1200 | 1200 | | | Thermal expansion %/degree C | 0.0075% | 0.0070% | 0.0070% | +---+----------------------------------+----------+-----------+-----------+ From weidner@waterw.com Wed Jun 13 22:23:01 2001 From: weidner@waterw.com (K2JXW / ARLHS.COM) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:23:01 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: hull insulation moisture In-Reply-To: <3B26CB0E.E9422624@mccorison.com> Message-ID: Thanks for your input -- and to all the others who responded with advice about the Bayliner with moisture in the hull. We already have, and are very happy with, a Bayliner 3058, except for the size; that's why we were looking to move up. We have decided that our boat, with all its amentities and in such good condition, is far above anything we have seen on the market, even with $20K cash thrown it. We have decided to keep what we have. You can see it at http://www.waterw.com/~weidner/bayliner.html We have scanned the Jersey shore and found only ONE diesel, a beatup Hatteras that had been used for charter fishing -- interior shows it, and wife rejected it quickly! Yachtworld and others list a lot, but when you get to the marina they say something like, "Oh gee, we just sold it last week" or "The owner took it off the market." I get the idea that a lot of these brokers, etc., are first cousins to used car dealers. And, of course, this is probably the wrong time of year to look for a boat. Most sellers by now are waiting until the summer is over to put their boat on the market. In any event, overwhelmingly the consensus was to walk (no, most said RUN) away from this deal. And I spoke to the head of the service dept at the marina and he told me confidentially that he did not want to see me get bamboozled -- "Jim, I've known you for ten years and you've done me a few favors. Let me do one for you: stay far away from this boat. It's a loser, and the owner won't even let us take a hull sample to see how extensive the moisture is." So, if you see a 3058 Bayliner "Sandy Claws" on the Chesapeake Bay this summer, around Rock Hall or St. Michaels, give a holler. I monitor the Maritime Service Net on 14.300 and occasionally check into the Waterway Cruiser Net on 7268. I'll definitely be on the ham bands for the National Lighthouse Weekend, Aug 3-5, and the International Lighthouse/lightship Weekend, Aug 18 & 19. (Details at http://arlhs.com ) Thanks again and 73 Jim, K2JXW, Amateur Radio Lighthouse Society, Member #001 U S Coast Guard Auxiliary -- USCGAUX, Flotilla 06-05-160 Lightship Sailors Association -- LSA ================================================= . -----Original Message----- . From: Jim McCorison [mailto:jim@mccorison.com] . Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 22:08 PM . To: weidner@waterw.com . Subject: hull insulation moisture . . . Dave, . . You seem to have already gotten a lot of feedback. But I'd like to throw . in my $0.02 worth. . . 1) As everybody else has said, hire your own surveyor. . . 2) Do not let the broker or their yard perform the work, especially if . the boat is sold for a fixed price with all "corrections completed". . They'll have no incentive to do the work correctly and much incentive to . shortcut things. . . We used to own a Bayliner 3386. We settled on it after looking at a lot . of 32xxs. We were looking for newer models so the price difference . wasn't so great. One things we did learn in our search is that the 32' . are quite susceptible to leaking and rot problems in the aft corners of . the deck house. Pay special attention to this area. I would be inclined, . with the owners permission, to remove the aft interior corner pieces and . check the condition behind them. Obviously you'll have to pay the yard . to remove them and put them back, but it could well be worth it. . . My overall impression, based on your description, is that you should . walk, no, run away from the deal and the broker. Things just smell . really fishy. . . You don't indicate in your post where you're from, but have you . considered looking outside your geographic area? I search of . Yachtworld.com found 28 1985-1990 Bayliners 32' with diesels from . various areas of the country, most in the same price range as what you . are looking at. Buying a good boat from another area and having it . trucked home could be be cheaper in the long run. . . Good luck in your search. . . Jim McCorison . M/V Maana . Seattle, WA From slowboat@mindspring.com Wed Jun 13 22:33:54 2001 From: slowboat@mindspring.com (Andy Clark) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:33:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: Holding Tanks Message-ID: <001c01c0f47a$76cb5b40$7ccb173f@tinyus> Mike Goode wrote: > major snip................... > A couple of questions: we're presuming the biggest possible tank is best, > is this correct? We would be cruising mostly just the two of us, but we do > take others on board for short trips. What would be a minimum size? We > have a manual flush toilet. > > So, if anyone has used the bladder type holding tanks and would like to > comment, we would appreciate it. > ----------------- > > Mike, I don't know what the minimum size would be for you or for anyone else. It's a personal thing . However, for Vicki and I, 40gal seems about right. Fortunately that's about the capacity of the built-in fiberglass tank that's under the floor of the forward cabin in ANTARES. In the case of holding tanks, bigger is always better IMO. > At the Poulsbo Trawlerfest we were on the tank from 6pm Wed evening until 10am Sun morning. Believe me, it was FULL when we left. We had not taken any particular care to minimize discharge into the tank while we were there, but in the past we have been able to go for about 4-5 days with judicious use (manual heads). We find that, since the forward head sits almost directly over the tank, it takes but two or three strokes of the pump to clear the head, and gravity takes over from there. So, when we know we're going to be "on the tank" for an extended period, we avoid using the aft head since it takes about 20 pumps to clear its lines. > Experience has shown us that taking 2 other people on board shortens the "time to full" of the tank by more than 50%, because of the necessity to use the aft head. In that case 2 to maybe 2 1/2 days max is the limit, depending on whether or not our guests are boaters and understand the necessity of conservation of vessel resources. Finally, I'd avoid a bladder tank like the plague! Andy Clark ANTARES CHB 34 Homeport, Everett Washington > From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Wed Jun 13 23:19:19 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:19:19 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Vacuum Bagger In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010613135847.007db1f0@facstaff.wisc.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Jeff L. Kenyon > We are considering a vacuum bagger - Do you have any recommendations? I picked up one at Sears a few years back- they are getting scarce. Be careful about overloading them! Also, the bags themselves can be fragile. I've had watery spaghetti sauce because the bag broke. All it takes is a few inadvertent scrapes inside an ice chest- I wound up going to double-bagging and double-sealing. Spaghetti is the consummate boiler bag meal. Your favorite sauce is frozen, and then you cook it in the same water as the noodles. What could be easier! Two-packs of AA batteries are also a favorite. ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From cigr@bellsouth.net Wed Jun 13 23:24:03 2001 From: cigr@bellsouth.net (Kevin Doyle) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:24:03 -0400 Subject: TWL: Eight Gauge Terminal Crimping Message-ID: <021a01c0f481$770be280$7a01d6d1@cigr> Perhaps with the help of the list, I can locate a suitable tool for crimping 8 gauge heat shrink connectors. Most of the tools that I have seen in the popular catalogs only seem to be designed to handle down to 10 gauge. Does anyone have any recommendations as to where I can find a suitable crimping tool? Thanks in advance, Kevin Doyle Key Largo From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 13 23:48:24 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:48:24 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Vacuum Bagger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c0f484$dec3acc0$52fd4e0c@KennethMcQuage> > > Spaghetti is the consummate boiler bag meal. Your favorite sauce is frozen, > and then you cook it in the same water as the noodles. What could be easier! > > Two-packs of AA batteries are also a favorite. Doug , Are the Batteries Cooked with the Noodles or with the Sauce - instead of Sausages ??? Ken From cculotta@iamerica.net Thu Jun 14 00:07:32 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:07:32 -0500 Subject: TWL: Coolant Reservoir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B283884.3947D409@iamerica.net> Ralph, If you do not wish to go through the trouble and expense of a real recovery system for your eng. this is how I handled it on my Perkins. I ran the rubber hose fr the existing filler neck on the heat exchanger dwn to a half gallon plastic milk carton. The burped coolant is captured here and I just pour it back into the reservoir when the engines are checked. Put the same system on the gen. set. Just like Vern's wife---fast , cheap and easy. CCC Mrmoo5@aol.com wrote: > What are the collective thoughts on adding a coolant reservoir to a marine > diesel engine? Trustworthy or not? > > Ralph Salerno > M/V ANCORA > > -- Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From gbrooks@ncia.com Thu Jun 14 01:47:57 2001 From: gbrooks@ncia.com (Geo. & Jeanne Brooks) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:47:57 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Eight Gauge Terminal Crimping In-Reply-To: <021a01c0f481$770be280$7a01d6d1@cigr> Message-ID: <01be01c0f495$93ef1e80$0c44fea9@user1> Kevin, I obtained a crimping tool for 8 gauge wire connectors from Hendricks Electric in Seattle. Their URL is http://www.hendrickselectric.com/ Regards, George Brooks La Conner, WA > Perhaps with the help of the list, I can locate a suitable tool for crimping > 8 gauge heat shrink connectors. > Most of the tools that I have seen in the popular catalogs only seem to be > designed to handle down to 10 gauge. > Does anyone have any recommendations as to where I can find a suitable > crimping tool? From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 18:51:57 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:51:57 +0100 Subject: TWL: Oil question for Detroit 2 cycle diesels In-Reply-To: <21.d07b8ad.285904b2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B27EE8C.D4685340@earthlink.net> Capt. Mike, Delo 400 is fine, at single-weight 40. When the temps get really low, you can also use either 15W40 or single-weight 30. At normal temps, you'll want to stay conservative and stick with the single-weight 40. For Detroits, I just confirmed recently, Delo 100 is better than Delo 400, owing entirely to its lower sulfated ash number. Detroits are prone to deposit formation, which is apparently exacerbated by sulfated ash. I did a very incomplete survey of what Alex Hirsehorn calls "Detroit Oils", oils that are formulated specifically for Detroit Diesels, and the Delo 100 had the lowest sulfated ash count, which is probably why it's the most often-cited choice, coupled with its widespread availability. Finally, keeping your oil clean is better than making a perfect choice of oils. From reliable sources, I have it that a good bypass filter will make a huge difference, no matter what you choose to put in your engine. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From listsub@circlesys.com Thu Jun 14 03:15:32 2001 From: listsub@circlesys.com (Steven Dubnoff) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:15:32 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Eight Gauge Terminal Crimping Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010614001154.03347790@pop.sttl.uswest.net> I find the BHC Hammer Crimper works quite well on eight gauge terminals. It is available from www.terminaltown.com (By the way, a very good and inexpensive source for terminals, tools and heat shrink tubing. -- No affiliation, I am just a customer). Best, Steve Steve Dubnoff Nauticat 40 M/S, Pyxis in Washington sdubnoff@circlesys.com From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 19:40:52 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:40:52 +0100 Subject: TWL: Oil question for Detroit 2 cycle diesels In-Reply-To: <3B27EE8C.D4685340@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3B27FA04.310FD92A@earthlink.net> Detroits are prone to deposit formation, which is apparently exacerbated by sulfated ash. Splitting hairs here, but I owe it to Alex to correct this. Deposit formation in Detroits is apparently exacerbated by the same stuff in the oil that leaves the residue that's measured by the sulfated ash test. Need a clarification? You might want to drop Alex a line, as he's a far more convincing authority than I could hope to be. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From doughoople@earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 19:46:15 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:46:15 +0100 Subject: TWL: Re: Eight Gauge Terminal Crimping In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010614001154.03347790@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3B27FB47.9A3AC2A8@earthlink.net> Yeah, 8-gauge seems a bit delicate for so blunt an instrument as a hammer crimper, but that's what I used, too. Available at just about any chandlery. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA Steven Dubnoff wrote: > I find the BHC Hammer Crimper works quite well on eight gauge terminals. From klemmons@airmail.net Thu Jun 14 08:00:44 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:00:44 -0500 Subject: TWL: Allison/Houston? Message-ID: <3B28A76C.A8B06C2C@airmail.net> Nah, no problems with my boats. They all floated during TS Allison! However, I bet a lot of people in the inner city would have liked to use my dinks. Actually, some boats in covered storage / hangin in slings suffered some damage since the bay and lake got so high. They hit the roof! One thing the TV never mentioned was that the tide was rising all during the storm...one of the reasons the water never had any place to go. It peaked at around 3:00 in the morning if I recall properly. One thing that was irritating to me was that Sprint PCS (cellular) network went down right in the middle of the storm, and wasn't working again until 3-4 days later. Sure made me think of the reliability of those darn cell phones in a storm. Still don't understand why they went out. ALL of the cell phone networks were out Sat. a.m., right after the storm, but some of the others came back up that day. Oh well, I have a feeling we're just seeing the beginning of a bad storm year for Houston/Galveston! -- __________________ Keith "Start every day with a smile and get it over with." - W. C. Fields From klemmons@airmail.net Thu Jun 14 08:09:00 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:09:00 -0500 Subject: TWL: Plastic Tank Mfg. Message-ID: <3B28A95C.7823CBDC@airmail.net> Daniel wrote: "Our intention is to replace the integral water and waste tanks with plastic tanks if we can find somebody to make quality tanks in the shapes we want." Dan: Peggy Hall highly recommends Ronco. I've looked at them and they seem to make very good tanks, and they use very thick plastic. Here's their web site: http://www.ronco-plastics.com/ I will be using them for a new holding tank for my Krogen. They have a lot of stock sizes, or will custom make one for you. -- __________________ Keith Did you know that SATAN is an anagram for SANTA? From klemmons@airmail.net Thu Jun 14 08:21:12 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:21:12 -0500 Subject: TWL: Holding tank level gages Message-ID: <3B28AC38.A7C24D04@airmail.net> Dan wrote: Recent thread on holding tanks got me curious. Im having trouble telling what level of fullness the tank is at. Looking at it doesn't help. Someone mentioned an electronic device that monitors the level?" Here's a good one that works on non-metallic tanks: http://www.snake-river.org/ It fits to the outside of the tanks, and is very reliable. They even have a kit now where you can use it in metal tanks, but it necessitates putting a "well" down into the tank made of plastic. I would guess if you're going to that much trouble, you might as well use a sealand tankwatch system. The Snake River system seems virtually trouble free, since it's outside the tank. -- __________________ Keith Cat, n.: Lapwarmer with built-in buzzer. From klemmons@airmail.net Thu Jun 14 08:59:29 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:59:29 -0500 Subject: TWL: bench grinder / drill Message-ID: <3B28B531.4A701914@airmail.net> Steve wrote "I do kinda miss the bench grinder with 3M fine abrasive foam wheel for removing the rust . The bench grinder didn't make the weight-benefit cutoff, but I may lose my resolve on the weight after another couple of years of de-rusting." _________________ Steve: Have you seen those gadgets that clamp a drill to a deck, workbench, etc? I've seen them at Sears. Looks like a couple of hose clamps run through a block of wood or plastic. You clamp the base to a working surface, then clamp the drill in there with the "hose clamps." You can put whatever wheel you like in the drill, and use it like a bench grinder. I imagine you could make one of these up yourself pretty cheap if you can't find the "fancy store-bought" version. I'm assuming you have a drill of some type... -- __________________ Keith "The world is your playground. Why aren't you playing?" - Ellie Katz From afraser@flash.net Thu Jun 14 08:52:25 2001 From: afraser@flash.net (Andrew & Linda Fraser) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:52:25 -0700 Subject: TWL: re:Emergency medicine Message-ID: <002201c0f4d0$e2833b40$6d02aace@oemcomputer> My wife and I took a three day course with DR.Dickie Hill in 92, To get ready for our trip to Mexico. It was the greatest thing I had ever done really in depth,as well we had him make up a med kit for us. As we get ready to go this fall we are going to take his five day class and redo our med kit. He is not to be missed a great speaker. Andrew & Linda Fraser M/V KAISOOBA N46 From schooleymike@pe.net Wed Jun 13 22:20:54 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:20:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: AGM vs GELs In-Reply-To: <41.ca7edae.285792df@aol.com> Message-ID: Bob Austin wrote; "Is the "self discharge" rate as low for AGM as it is for Gels?." Self discharge of AGM is actually slightly lower than GELs. Here is the self discharge rate per month, flooded 22%, Gel 3.25%, AGM 3%. For a dinghy, I would recommend AGM over Gel because they have a higher tolerance to shock and vibration. Sunset Aquatic 7148460179 launch ramp "You say will last twice as long as low cost flooded lead acid--but how about price ratio, and or the cost and longivity compared to high quality (such as Rolls) batteries?" Based on Rolls/Surette cost data from http://www.rollsbattery.com/ for the 400 series and Concord Lifeline data from http://www.concordebattery.com/products/marine_rv_bats/marine_bats/comps.htm the cost ratio is Rolls is 1.5 time higher that Lifeline. Using cycle life from http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/ the cycle life ratio at 50% DoD is rolls is 1.25 time higher than Lifeline. "Generally I agree. However I was given a PWC AGM, which was turned in after one year--voltage was good and so I utalized it--for a year in my dinghy. I had gotten six years out of a gel cell in the past. I have gone back to a gel cell (even with the disadvantage of having to occasionally charge it with a special charger)." You and I can not draw any valid conclusions from your experience with this "PWC AGM". You don't know how it was used for a year and I don't know what brand and quality it was. Sincerely; Mike Schooley From pgslo@juno.com Wed Jun 13 19:27:11 2001 From: pgslo@juno.com (pgslo@juno.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:27:11 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: window replacement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010614.081135.-201695.0.pgslo@juno.com> On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:13:13 EDT LRZeitlin@aol.com writes: > Replace your own windows. It ain't brain surgery. Careful here! It isn't brain surgery but it does take some knowledge and skill. I see a lot of serious damage in the form of water intrusion into the core materials from inept DIY window replacement projects. Although this project is something any knowledgeable owner can perform themselves and many do, you do need to take the time to learn how to do it properly. If not done properly, water will invade into the wall material and cause damage that will be very expensive to fix at some time in the future. If have observed more poorly done DIY window replacements than good ones. The way a window is designed and detailed for installation is another factor that you have to be aware of. Expensive, metal framed windows tend to be easier to replace and re-bed. Inexpensive windows require more skill and preparation to repair and replace. Take the time to learn how to do the job properly by talking to some experts (and I am not one of them). I have never seen a book that details this process accurately. All the books I have seen tend to oversimplify the project. And no, our yard does not do after market work of this type. Patrick Gerety Willard Marine www.willardmarine.com mailto: trawlers@willardmarinne.com From schooleymike@pe.net Thu Jun 14 00:22:37 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:22:37 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE72614ED@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: Joe Engel wrote, "I was with you all the way to your last statement. The one about double the battery life of flooded wet cell batteries. I have never heard of nor experienced anything close that. Seems to me AGMs have only been readily available for what, 4 years or less?" Actually Concord developed the AGM battery for military aircraft and started delivering then in 1985. So they have been around for 16 years. However all manufacturers use accelerated life testing which simulates years of operational use in a relatively short period of time. "We expect and get 10-12 years from Trojan 6 volt GC batteries when they are well cared for. I have 11 years on our own bank now. So are you saying that well cared for AGM batteries will last 20 years?" If you don't use them much and charge them correctly/periodically, AGM batteries could last more than 20 years. According to Red Beard Yacht Systems, http://www.redbeardyachtsystems.com/Marine%20Battery%20Facts.htm the typical life for Golf cart batteries is 2-6 years and AGM deep cycle batteries are 4-8 years although actual life is determined by usage in terms of Depth of Discharge and cycles. In addition, battery life can be extended by reducing the operating temperature and life is reduced by charging/discharging at elevated temperatures. Not to mention that life can always be reduced by abuse, misuse, improper charging/discharge, ... In your case I would assume that you: (1) take very good care of your batteries, (2) have a large battery bank which sees a relatively low depth of discharge, (3) don't put very many cycles on your batteries per year, (4) operate in a cool climate and keep your batteries relatively cool, (5) because you use a low DoD you can and do tolerate significantly reduced capacity before replacing your batteries. Users in warmer climates or batteries operating in hot engine rooms should not expect to get similar results. I wanted to compare the manufactures claims for cycle life between Trojan golf cart batteries and Concord Lifeline batteries, so I first went to Concord's web page http://www.concordebattery.com/products/marine_rv_bats/marine_bats/graphlife comp.htm and got a excellent chart of battery life in terms of cycles versus depth of discharge. I then searched Trojan's web pages for similar data, but I found none, so I called Trojan. They said the data is available on request only (you can draw your own conclusions) so I requested the data. I received a spread sheet with two columns on numbers (to three and four significant digits) and a graph labeled Depth of Discharge versus Theoretical Life Cycles, but no qualifications of test conditions. The predicted cycle compared favorably to the Concord Lifeline AGM batteries. The Trojan was better at high DoD and they were almost the same at low DoD. I sent an e-mail to Trojan and requested the test conditions and I found the following differences; (1) Concord used the industry standard definition of 80% capacity as the end of life while Trojan used 50%, (2) Trojan used an 11.25 discharge rate (i.e. the 20 hour discharge rate) while Concord uses 1 hour (much faster). I concluded that the Trojan data is probably overly optimistic, the Concord data may be overly pessimistic and the two sets of data can not be compared directly. I have requested 80% capacity life data from Trojan and I'll send an update when I receive it. As an engineer, I would not recommend flooded batteries for anything that moves! I include sail boats, trawlers, electric vehicles and even golf carts in this category! If it moves, there is a finite chance that it could roll to the point where flooded batteries will spill sulfuric acid. The potential risk and cost of an acid spill far exceeds any potential cost savings of golf cart batteries over AGM batteries. If flooded batteries are used in any boat they should be enclosed in a battery box that can contain any acid spills. It is very important to vent all lead acid batteries during charging although the venting requirements for flooded batteries is up to 10 times higher than AGM and Gels. Sincerely; Mike Schooley Future Trailerable Trawler owner From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Thu Jun 14 12:27:12 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:27:12 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Eight Gauge Terminal Crimping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A3403D@BCMAIL1> Arild writes It has been my experience that the hammer crimp tool will often give a poor connection. While this works okay on a starter cable which only sees high current for a few seconds, they do not stand up well to continuous current loads. Under continuous loads these hammer crimped connectors tend to heat up. I made my own crimper from a cheap bolt cutter tool. I drilled the right size hole into the cutting edges and finished the corners off with a Dremel tool to de-burr and shape the crimping surface a little better. I have two sizes that I use for most of my work (#8 and #2 ) doing the regular electrical panel work. For the smaller wires I prefer the ANCOR ratchet double crimper with replaceable dies. It also does hex crimps for coaxial antenna cables. For the really big sizes, I relied on the expensive crimp tool owned by the yard I contracted for. If I was doing more routine work using 4/0 and 2/0 inverter cables I would either buy the right tool or make another one myself. Cheers Arild -----Original Message----- From: Doug Hoople [mailto:doughoople@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:46 PM To: Steven Dubnoff Cc: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: Re: TWL: Re: Eight Gauge Terminal Crimping Yeah, 8-gauge seems a bit delicate for so blunt an instrument as a hammer crimper, but that's what I used, too. Available at just about any chandlery. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA Steven Dubnoff wrote: > I find the BHC Hammer Crimper works quite well on eight gauge terminals. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From Joe@JRE.com Thu Jun 14 12:34:13 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:34:13 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7261538@WINNTSRV> Excellent information Mike. Thank you for your research. Joe Engel -----Original Message----- From: Michael Schooley [mailto:schooleymike@pe.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:23 PM To: Trawler World List (E-mail) Subject: RE: TWL: RE: Batteries "We expect and get 10-12 years from Trojan 6 volt GC batteries when they are well cared for. I have 11 years on our own bank now. So are you saying that well cared for AGM batteries will last 20 years?" If you don't use them much and charge them correctly/periodically, AGM batteries could last more than 20 years. From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 14 12:35:23 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:35:23 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Lexan vs Plexiglas Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F34@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> As a newcomer to this list, I have not seen the past discussions on the advantages and disadvantages of these two materials. So at the risk of opening up what may have been a can of worms, I have a question that has probably been asked before. We need to replace the three venturi panels on the flybridge of our GB36. The current panels are clear Plex, and are fairly scratched up. We would like to go to a slightly tinted material, and Plexiglas or Lexan seem to be the best choices. On the flybridge, I am not so much concerned about resisting the impact of solid water as I am about scratch resistance. Which material would best suit our application? ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From water_sparky@yahoo.com Thu Jun 14 13:40:24 2001 From: water_sparky@yahoo.com (Joseph Pfab) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:40:24 -0400 Subject: TWL: Water "lift" or "lock" mufflers In-Reply-To: <11f.42f209.2858dd09@aol.com> Message-ID: <001001c0f4f9$18779ca0$7164a8c0@globalit.predicate.com> My old engine had water in the oil. I have installed a new engine and don't want the same thing to happen. I have talked to the people who make the Vernalift waterlift mufflers and they have stated that the muffler inlet should be at least 12" below the water injection point on the engine's exhaust outlet. My problem is that none of the Vernalift or Vetus Waterlock mufflers will fit into my boat and place the muffler inlet that far below the engine's exhaust outlet (unless I strap it under the keel :-). My old engine had an Onan type waterlift muffler with it's inlet only about 3" below the injection point (so I assume that is how I was getting water in the oil). My engine is at or just below the waterline and the exhaust hose runs at least 20' aft to the overboard discharge point. Does anyone have any suggestions/remedies? Thanks. Joseph _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From tclem@acadia.net Thu Jun 14 13:45:42 2001 From: tclem@acadia.net (Tom Clements) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:45:42 -0400 Subject: TWL: Water "lift" or "lock" mufflers In-Reply-To: <001001c0f4f9$18779ca0$7164a8c0@globalit.predicate.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010614134407.024a62e0@post.acadia.net> FWIW, my Yanmar 6LP's have no mufflers, are not loud, and the admiral loves their sound! Tom At 01:40 PM 6/14/2001 -0400, Joseph Pfab wrote: >My engine is at or just below the waterline and the exhaust hose runs at >least 20' aft to the overboard discharge point. Does anyone have any >suggestions/remedies? From mgwhite@swbell.net Thu Jun 14 14:07:19 2001 From: mgwhite@swbell.net (Martin G. White MD) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:07:19 -0500 Subject: TWL: Controllable pitch prop Message-ID: <005d01c0f4fc$da640da0$97ccbfd0@dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> Do any of you have experience with the use of this type of prop? Can anyone direct me toward literature which would discuss the various uses of the prop for maneuvering and control of fuel consumption? I have a Hundested unit on my vessel. Marty White Skipper, Inspiration, Kristen 46 From WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL Thu Jun 14 14:07:39 2001 From: WhicherRE@SUPSHIP.NAVY.MIL (Whicher Robert E BATH) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:07:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Water "lift" or "lock" mufflers Message-ID: <4E5A67A1565AD311A62D0008C79137A80243C972@exch.sbath.navy.mil> My old engine had water in the oil. I have installed a new engine and don't want the same thing to happen. I have talked to the people who make the Vernalift waterlift mufflers and they have stated that the muffler inlet should be at least 12" below the water injection point on the engine's exhaust outlet. On many Marine Traders they (Bob Smith) recommend an anti-siphon valve on water injection line if there is not 12" ( I do not remember exact distance) or more from water line to the injection point on exhaust elbow. I believe a hot engine can pull cold water into engine, sometimes. I know some boats that went 20 years without problems but had water enter engines when cruising. Perhaps the extra weight they added cruising lowered the boat allowing water to siphon? Bob Whicher 44' MT From LRZeitlin@aol.com Thu Jun 14 14:32:10 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:32:10 EDT Subject: TWL: Lexan vs. acrylics Message-ID: <8d.800bf85.285a5d2a@aol.com> <> My materials engineering texts, which may be a decade out of date, suggest that polycarbonate has 250 times the impact resistance of glass and 30 times the impact resistance of acrylic. It has about 10% greater flexural strength than acrylic. However it deflects more under pressure. I suspect that the Lloyds calculations reflect the lesser deflection strength of polycarbonate. For windscreen applications this would put greater strain on the fastenings. Polycarbonate windows should overlap the supporting structure by a greater amount than acrylic windows and the fastenings should be sized to handle shear loads as well as tension loads. A rubber compression mounting just won't do. Are you sure that you have calculated Adagio's windows correctly? A 40 mm thickness of polycarbonate is significantly thicker than that used in bulletproof windows in banks. A 31 mm thickness (1.25") is rated to stop a .44 magnum bullet fired at point blank range. Our local high school has a batting cage made of 1/4" Lexan which has survived several years of point blank foul balls fired by wanna be Mark McGuires. Regards, Larry Zeitlin From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 14 15:16:56 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:16:56 EDT Subject: TWL: Batteries Message-ID: <122.4aa74f.285a67a8@aol.com> With all due respect to Mike's technical expertise, I must say that the majority of boats out there cruising successfully use flooded cell batteries--and this includes thousands of sailboats whose heeling is far and beyond what recreational tawlers will ever see in rolls. Yes the batteries should be in boxes and properly vented. I have taken fairly brief 90 degree knockdowns in storms and never had any battery acid dammage--this is the experence of hundreds of other boaters. Some boaters have gone to AGM and Gel cells--many with gell cells have come back to flooded, because of their intolerance to overvoltage. As I noted my experience is with AGM (which happened to be the ones West Marine carried) is very limited. However I personally have found it cost effective while cruising full time (at times accidents happen and overvoltage may be applied) to use golf carts as the hous batteries and replace them every five years. Doing this I have virtually never had a battery failure (something I cannot say about using batteries in a car), never had an explosion nor an acid spill problem--and this is hard use with daily cycling of the battery (I tend to attempt to keep my cycling to 30% of capacity but occasionally get to 50%. Flooded lead acid batteries are still a very viable and economical choice. Bob Austin Symbol 42 Pensacola, FL From Mrmoo5@aol.com Thu Jun 14 15:22:07 2001 From: Mrmoo5@aol.com (Mrmoo5@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:22:07 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: window replacement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The three fixed windows on my trawler were broken at the corners. I could not get them out and hired a glass company to do the job. The glass was in so tight they had to break the panes to remove them! The new glass was sized smaller than the original windows and then bedded in to allow some room for "tweaking." Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Thu Jun 14 15:33:12 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:33:12 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34045@BCMAIL1> While reading the June issue of SAIL magazine, I came across an article on equipping boats. The author stated that he tended to reduce his power consumption needs rather than increase his power generating capacity. He then stated that his 50 amp OEM automotive type alternator was plenty big enough to charge his pair of Group 31 batteries. As a final comment he indicated that after many years of using flooded acid batteries, he had installed new AGM cells. This is probably typical of how many people think and switch to AGM. They only look at the safety aspect of a spill proof battery. Unfortunately, his old charger is not optimized for AGM and quite likely the results will be disappointing. This in turn will create yet another user with a bad impression of AGM batteries. Too expensive and doesn't last any longer. It is even possible they will fail prematurely depending on charging mis-match. Regards Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From rcrogers@annapolis.net Thu Jun 14 16:57:54 2001 From: rcrogers@annapolis.net (Ron Rogers) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:57:54 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c0f514$b294c860$760418ce@ronthfp1w0rg6> Donna, Does Four Seasons have stabilizers and if so, what kind? Did you use your stabilizers in those conditions? Thank you, Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD From scaramouche@tvo.org Thu Jun 14 17:12:09 2001 From: scaramouche@tvo.org (George Geist) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:12:09 -0400 Subject: Re(2): TWL: Re: Lexan vs. Plexiglas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: adagio@our.net.au writes: > >> Lexan (polycarbonate) is great stuff (although expensive). It has >MUCH higher >> impact resistance I have to replace side windows (tintesd) on my sailboat. Important is that holes (countersunk) have to be drilled without cracking. What is the best material anyone has ever tried for this? Windowas are oval about 4 ft by 1.2. Any suggestions? From kimeric@seanet.com Thu Jun 14 17:12:54 2001 From: kimeric@seanet.com (Kim Boyce and Eric Thoman) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:12:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: Listee Linkup at Poulsbo Message-ID: <001801c0f516$c7381180$c2070041@sttln1.wa.home.com> Follow this link to some photos of the listee linkup aboard Bob Miller's Loon Song. I had a lot of trouble with the lighting, but at least you can put some shadowy faces to a few of the names that you see on this list! http://www.seanet.com/~kimeric/Listees.htm Kim Boyce Finishing Abyssinia From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Thu Jun 14 18:54:08 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:54:08 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010614185408.007ab540@earthlink.net> If you cant predict >the weather, youd better get a Nordhavn. =============================================================== I've got a better saying for you Georgs. "If you cant predict the weather, and its blowing like stink your better off tied to a dock or in a calm anchorage". From your own description you were taking punishment. Why? Were you on a tight schedule or do you get your jollies this way. I've been caught in weather like that but you'll never see me go out into it with my eyes wide open. I think most of us are involved in PLEASURE BOATING. . . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From afraser@flash.net Thu Jun 14 19:03:15 2001 From: afraser@flash.net (Andrew & Linda Fraser) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:03:15 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Re: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: <001301c0f514$b294c860$760418ce@ronthfp1w0rg6> Message-ID: <002d01c0f526$32af8560$6d02aace@oemcomputer> Ron I don't think they are back on the list yet. But I can tell you that they have paravane stabilizers,And I'am sure that they had the fish In the water. But I am sure they will fill in the blanks later! Andrew & Linda Fraser M/V KAISOOBA N46 From Awgertoo@aol.com Thu Jun 14 19:52:56 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:52:56 EDT Subject: TWL: Water "lift" or "lock" mufflers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/14/01 1:38:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, water_sparky@yahoo.com writes: << I have talked to the people who make the Vernalift waterlift mufflers and they have stated that the muffler inlet should be at least 12" below the water injection point on the engine's exhaust outlet. >> Are you sure they didn't mean that there needs to be at least 12" of fall from the highest point of the exhaust line to the muffler? In other words, you can carry your wet section after the injection point in a loop up and then back down to the vernalift. Check this out with them. Whatever you do, don't put in one of those cheesy rubber syphon breaks--place a tee in your water discharge line above and before the injection point at the top of its loop and run a line over the side to creat a positive vent to atmosphere--this is a guarantee against syphoning water back into the engine. Michael Oritt 48- Durbeck--NAMASTE From Ksard@ChesapeakeCruising.com Thu Jun 14 20:25:34 2001 From: Ksard@ChesapeakeCruising.com (Ksard) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:25:34 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Chesapeake Cruise In-Reply-To: <20010614040018.BA2602624E@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <003801c0f531$b256a7c0$7a192c42@oemcomputer> For cruising the Chesapeake you might want to check out http://ChesapeakeCruising.com There are a number of good anchorages there. You will find the most around the middle bay (that section from just north of the Bay Bridge to the mouth of the Potomac River). These are anchorages suggested by bay cruisers and many are not published in the guides. There is also an e-mail list similar to this one where you might want to ask questions. The list is pretty quiet, but the listees will respond when asked for suggestions. There are lots of things to do and see along the way. Baltimore Harbor, Annapolis, St. Michaels, Oxford, Solomons are just a few of the places you should check out. My favorite cruise is from Annapolis up to Baltimore Harbor, then across the bay to Rock Hall. Head down through the Kent Narrows and on to St. Michaels. Go back out in the bay and around Tilghman Island and up the Choptank to Oxford. After that you could head back out into the bay and down to Crisfield. Whatever you decide to do, I know you will have a great time. Be prepared for some muggy weather though. August on the bay can be brutal. Hope this helped Keven Sard Web Editor Chesapeake Cruising Have You Seen Your Boat Today? www.ModemCam.Com Remote Observation Systems >"Ralph Sloan" >Subject: TWL: Chesapeake Cruise >We are planning a 3+ week cruise of the Chesapeake this July- >Augustending up at the Monk 36 Rendezvous in Crisfield MD. We >will be leaving NY, going down the NJ coast, up the Deleware, and >across the Canal. Have consulted several cruising guides for >anchorages and marinas but don't have an overall "tour" in mind. >Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks ------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:35:36 -0400 >From: Whicher Robert E BATH >Subject: TWL: RE: Chesapeake Cruise >From: Ralph Sloan >We are planning a 3+ week cruise of the Chesapeake >My wife and I are also planning on 3-4 week cruise in Chesapeake during >September and would welcome your "Favorite Anchorages" >Bob Whicher > From Frank.Osborne@verizon.net Thu Jun 14 20:39:31 2001 From: Frank.Osborne@verizon.net (Frank Osborne) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:39:31 -0700 Subject: TWL: Bedding a Hatch Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010614173408.028f7638@mail.verizon.net> One of our hatches has started to leak, the one over the master bed of course, and I have removed the hatch and will clean up all of the old bedding material but I wanted suggestions on what to use to rebed the hatch. 3M 5200, 4200, silicon? It's a standard Bomar type hatch with a flush mount frame. Any suggestions from a voice of experience out there? Frank Osborne 'Island Fever', 44 Defever http://www.OsborneConsulting.com/IslandFever/IslandFever_Main.htm From Ksard@ChesapeakeCruising.com Thu Jun 14 20:40:25 2001 From: Ksard@ChesapeakeCruising.com (Ksard) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:40:25 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Vacum Bagger In-Reply-To: <20010614040018.BA2602624E@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <003d01c0f533$c5721860$7a192c42@oemcomputer> I'll second the Foodsaver comments. My wife gave me one for a Christmas present and it is one of the best tools I own. They were selling them at Costco for a while, but otherwise I have only seen them in TV infomercials. The bags are tough and re-usable which is a plus. Keven Sard Web Editor Chesapeake Cruising Have You Seen Your Boat Today? www.ModemCam.Com Remote Observation Systems > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:58:08 +1000 > From: Steve Darden > Subject: Re: TWL: Vacuum Bagger (was salt air affecting metal??) > > > --- "Jeff L. Kenyon" wrote: > > >> We are considering a vacuum bagger - Do you have any > >> recommendations? > > Our is a Foodsaver, by Tilia. Italian made, sold in US (and Australia, so > coverage must be pretty good). > > > > Note that the robustness of the appliance is only part of solution. The > other is the quality of the bagging stock. The Foodsaver material is really > tough. > > Cheers, > > Steve > From cculotta@iamerica.net Thu Jun 14 20:56:23 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:56:23 -0500 Subject: TWL: Bedding a Hatch In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010614173408.028f7638@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <3B295D37.6B53EC77@iamerica.net> Frank, You did make sure that the hatch was leaking around its edge where it meets the edge of the hole in which it is mounted. My Bomar was leaking where the Lexan/plastic met the alum. frame. It was a relatively easy fix. If anyone needs the fix let me know off line. CCC Frank Osborne wrote: > One of our hatches has started to leak, the one over the master bed of > course, and I have removed the hatch and will clean up all of the old > bedding material but I wanted suggestions on what to use to rebed the > hatch. 3M 5200, 4200, silicon? Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 14 23:08:12 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:08:12 EDT Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco Message-ID: <18.df563d4.285ad61c@aol.com> Although to some of you on the list it may seem like insanity to do what Four Seasons did: bucking into 50 knots and 15 foot + seas. If you really want to cruise this comes with the territory. On the East and Gulf coast you have the luxuary of the ICW with only a few open water stretches. However I know of many boats waiting all winter to try and cross the Gulf Stream to get to the Bahamas. What Four Seasons went through can be rather typical for the West Coast All the way from Cabo San Lucas to Cape Flattery, there are always risks of heavy weather. If you want to make passages along this coast, your boat and you had better be prepared for it--or not go. When I lived in S. Calif. I always advised potential cruisers to take three or four days and head for Point Conception/Point Arguello--I have made this run eight times and only once was it calm. If you and your boat can take this type of weather and seas most likely you can take just about anything that King Neptune has to offer. It can also happen going South bound--and more than one voyage which has started in the Pacific North West, has been abandoned by San Franscisco or San Diego. It is not just waiting out the weather--I know people who have waited weeks at a time, and finally changed their plans. As Donna pointed out--you cannot always rely on the predictions and remember they had the best experts helping them. I suspect that they had the stablelizers out--but most of the motion is pitching, since you are heading almost directly into the seas or away from the seas. These short and steep seas will virtually stop your boat cold--look at their post of solid water to the portuguese bridge. This is also a good reason to have a alternate place for the dogs to do their business (faced this problem on our trips up the coast also). Also I keep my hose for anchor wash down to 4 feet--it will come untied, and you don't want a plastic hose tangled in your prop! Also be sure and secure the anchor and chain--put a buny or plug into the hause pipe. For those of you who have not been in heavy seas, many times it is dangerous to turn the boat beam to the seas--thus either down seas or up seas are your choices--until you get a lull. The danger is rolling the boat beyond its point of stablity--paravanes or stabilizers will not prevent this, with the boat beam on. This is one of the reasons I feel that either a sailboat, or ballasted motor vessel makes a safer passage maker. Four Seasons should be congratulated for a series of great stories and a well prepared and safe voyage despite adversity! Bob Austin From scott.bray@baesystems.com Fri Jun 15 00:56:26 2001 From: scott.bray@baesystems.com (BRAY, Scott) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:26:26 +0930 Subject: TWL: Lexan vs. Plexiglas Message-ID: <807C87879475D411B1420060B057FD438337EC@sbntex1.baea.com.au> George wrote, I have to replace side windows (tintesd) on my sailboat. Important is that holes (countersunk) have to be drilled without cracking. A friend who owns a boat shop and regularly replaces screens on ski boats advised me to use a "well worn" drill bit when drilling pexiglass etc. Apparently new (sharp) bits tend to grab as they exit the drill hole, resulting in cracking. The advice worked for me but as with most things it is probably best if you trial differing methods on scrap pieces, (if available) for your own peace of mind. Scott Boatless in the Barossa Australia From skurowski@home.com Fri Jun 15 01:48:59 2001 From: skurowski@home.com (Stan Kurowski) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:48:59 -0700 Subject: TWL: Remove Vinyl Letters and Figures Message-ID: Friends have a painted fiberglass hull with vinyl name and figures. I doubt the paint is an oil base, its probably a single part epoxy/polyurethane, and could be a two part paint. They wish to remove the name without removing the paint. They have tried lightly using a razor blade with expected scratching. The only thing I could think of was light application of heat from a heat gun or hair dryer (enough to loosen the vinyl without softening the paint) while pulling on the vinyl, or, using an iron on a wet cloth to heat the vinyl and pulling. Any other ideas to remove the vinyl letters and figures without harming the paint? Thanks Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA From bhall@bcpl.net Fri Jun 15 02:01:22 2001 From: bhall@bcpl.net (Brian J. Hall) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:01:22 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Coolant Reservoir Message-ID: <004601c0f560$9ba32600$d48e13cf@brihall> >After installation of the recovery system, which on the Lehman requires >removal of the existing fill neck and replacing it using epoxy (very easily >accomplished) You do NOT need to buy the special neck for your Lehman. Simply add a recovery tank (you can buy it at Pep Boys or any auto store) and connect it to the copper overflow line with hose clamps! One advantage of the retro-neck fill is to eliminate the cast-in overflow port in the expansion tank. Mr. Smith made a boo-boo when his firm's design team mixed copper and brass over-flow tubing with the tiny aluminum pin hole overflow port on the expansion/ reservoir tank. This hole quickly fills with corrosion and blocks itself and then something blows (most likely the cap neck or a hose). I bored out the hole to a larger size and added the recovery tank to the existing copper line. The next time it clogs I will buy and install one of Mr. Smith's boo-boo correctors. Too bad for all us Lehman owners that so many engines went out the door with this problem in waiting! Please check to see if your overflow line is clear! Brian Hall CHB 45 "Any Sea" Baltimore From moana@xsw.com Fri Jun 15 06:06:50 2001 From: moana@xsw.com (Charles Vollum) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:06:50 -1000 Subject: TWL: Boojum readies for relaunch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Tell us, Charles, what's the story behind the fish being called ducks in >your stabilizer arrangement? Georgs, I'm not sure. TC referred to them that way during a meeting with Michael Kasten, and the name stuck. She might have gotten the term from our two year old, JJ... In any case, they've been "ducks" ever since! Cheers, Charles -- Charles Vollum http://xsw.com/boojum - trailerable ocean-going tugboat From pkoch@dtex.com Fri Jun 15 06:40:12 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 06:40:12 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Coolant Reservoir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any idea inwhat year this was corrected. Paul -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) From love@3dnet.com Fri Jun 15 07:56:50 2001 From: love@3dnet.com (lynn love) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:56:50 -0400 Subject: TWL: Remove Vinyl Letters and Figures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B29F802.284DD7B3@3dnet.com> Stan, I have seen and used a product called "goof off" to remove spots, stickers and label. It comes in a small oil type can like lighter fluid was sold . I have used it on furniture and the like without damage. Lynn Love -Tampa Stan Kurowski wrote: > Friends have a painted fiberglass hull with vinyl name and figures. I doubt > the paint is an oil base, its probably a single part epoxy/polyurethane, > and could be a two part paint. They wish to remove the name without > removing the paint. They have tried lightly using a razor blade with > expected scratching. The only thing I could think of was light application > of heat from a heat gun or hair dryer (enough to loosen the vinyl without > softening the paint) while pulling on the vinyl, or, using an iron on a wet > cloth to heat the vinyl and pulling. > Any other ideas to remove the vinyl letters and figures without harming the > paint? > > Thanks > > Stan Kurowski > M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) > Anacortes, WA From AlorMaria@aol.com Fri Jun 15 08:53:45 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:53:45 EDT Subject: TWL: Remove Vinyl Letters and Figures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <110.1078437.285b5f59@aol.com> In a message dated 6/15/01 1:49:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, skurowski@home.com writes: << They have tried lightly using a razor blade with expected scratching. The only thing I could think of was light application of heat from a heat gun or hair dryer (enough to loosen the vinyl without softening the paint) while pulling on the vinyl >> I had to remove vinyl letters on my boat. Instead of a razor, try using an automotive ice scraper - one of those which is really a glorified piece of thick plastic shaped like a triangle. Use a file to keep it's edge sharp and use a hair dryer to warm the letters. The plastic scraper will never be hard enough to scratch the fiberglass and should be ok on the paint. Nevertheless, you'll still need to use a fine rubbing compond to remove the outline of the glue and to blend any fading under the old lettering. Good luck. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From IMIS@compuserve.com Fri Jun 15 09:05:57 2001 From: IMIS@compuserve.com (Al Golden) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:05:57 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco Message-ID: <200106150906_MC3-D5E5-B371@compuserve.com> Thanks for the great cruise report Donna! We've put a hard copy in your file.... Al Golden International Marine Insurance Svcs 1-800-541-4647 From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Fri Jun 15 09:45:41 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:45:41 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010615094541.007ac620@earthlink.net> >There are no docks or anchorages offshore, Al, so if you plan on voyaging >long distances under power, you better be up to steaming through gales >because sooner or later you will encounter winds in excess of 35 knots. > >Once you've encountered a gale or three, dealing with them becomes somewhat >routine. > >--Georgs ============================================================= What I'm trying to figure out is why you left the anchorage knowing it was bad out side but not knowing how bad. Where you on a schedule you had to keep or do you enjoy a storm. Personally I don't but I still get my behind kicked in the Gulf Stream. I know guys that go out in stormy weather to prove that they are macho men I guess. Al . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Fri Jun 15 10:59:57 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: Bedding a Hatch In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010614173408.028f7638@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20010615145957.15052.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Funny timing on this. I was going to post a similar message. My hatch, though it does not leak really, allows some amount of moisture into my forward v berth. My v berth "ceiling" is wet to the touch. I suspect in high seas it would probably leak. The seal around the hatch is not perfect (but the rubber gasket is ok), as opposed to the hatch iself leaking. It appears the wood part is warped some, as I can look through and see the sun shine through a crack. I think this problem is a bit different than Franks. Anyone have a suggestion on how to seal this? --- Frank Osborne wrote: > One of our hatches has started to leak, the one over > the master bed of > course, and I have removed the hatch and will clean > up all of the old > bedding material but I wanted suggestions on what to > use to rebed the > hatch. 3M 5200, 4200, silicon? > It's a standard Bomar type hatch with a flush mount > frame. > Any suggestions from a voice of experience out > there? > > Frank Osborne > 'Island Fever', 44 Defever > http://www.OsborneConsulting.com/IslandFever/IslandFever_Main.htm > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From Joe@JRE.com Fri Jun 15 11:19:48 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:19:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on th e way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7261546@WINNTSRV> Based upon my experience in out little corner of the world, this type of encounter is what we call "local weather". In other words, the buoy reports, the weather predictions, the local indicators place the go - no go decision at about 60% go, (and in their case the prediction was for moderation) but the local weather Gods had other ideas. It's not totally unusual around these parts (Wash & Oregon coasts) to be cursing the weatherman 15 minutes after clearing the harbor and rounding the point when you run head on into the same stuff they did. With moderation predicted as in their case, it's a judgment call as to whether to proceed or return, although in their case, they did not feel it was prudent to make a 180 in those seas. Also, we do not always have the luxury of waiting for a better window. So we take some risks to keep the schedule. They had a great sea boat. It's the bodies inside that take the thrashing. What's even more frustrating is to turn back, only to discover from another boat, that if you had held out another 30 minutes the weather did abate after all. It's part of the package on the West Coast. We never go out there that we don't stow for heavy seas. It's part of the challenge, its part of the fun, it makes for the best memories.... after the fact. Joe Engel -----Original Message----- From: Captain Al Pilvinis [mailto:yourcaptain@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:46 AM To: Georgs Kolesnikovs Subject: Re: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco What I'm trying to figure out is why you left the anchorage knowing it was bad out side but not knowing how bad. Where you on a schedule you had to keep or do you enjoy a storm. Personally I don't but I still get my behind kicked in the Gulf Stream. I know guys that go out in stormy weather to prove that they are macho men I guess. Al . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From LRZeitlin@aol.com Fri Jun 15 11:35:39 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:35:39 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Port replacement Message-ID: <24.14f1e95e.285b854b@aol.com> In a message dated 6/15/01 4:04:20 AM, Patrick writes: << Take the time to learn how to do the job properly by talking to some experts (and I am not one of them). I have never seen a book that details this process accurately. All the books I have seen tend to oversimplify the project. >> Don Casey's book "Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair", McGraw Hill, is a pretty good guide. I agree that an inept job can allow water to penetrate the core material. Once you learn to do it properly it is like most boat maintenance tasks, tedious and messy but not difficult. Larry Zeitlin From LRZeitlin@aol.com Fri Jun 15 11:40:34 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:40:34 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #348 Message-ID: <3f.16b2ef10.285b8672@aol.com> In a message dated 6/15/01 4:04:20 AM, C. Marin Faure writes: << On the flybridge, I am not so much concerned about resisting the impact of solid water as I am about scratch resistance. Which material would best suit our application? >> Abrasion resistant acrylic (Lucite or Plexiglass) is better and much cheaper than Lexan for this application. Most large plastic supply houses carry plastic sheet in various thickness and tints and will even cut it for you (for a fee, of course). Use the old windows as templates. Larry Zeitlin From LRZeitlin@aol.com Fri Jun 15 12:02:24 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:02:24 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #348 Message-ID: <72.bb9011c.285b8b90@aol.com> In a message dated 6/15/01 4:04:20 AM, George writes: << I have to replace side windows (tintesd) on my sailboat. Important is that holes (countersunk) have to be drilled without cracking. What is the best material anyone has ever tried for this? Windowas are oval about 4 ft by 1.2. >> I assume that the windows are to be mounted on the external surface of the hull or deckhouse and not contained in frames. That's actually the best way to mount Lexan but it doesn't look as neat. Plastics supply houses sell drill bits ground especially for plastic. Big hardware stores might sell them as well. The holes should be drilled larger than the screws, countersunk. I usually drill holes about 2" apart for 1/4 to 3/8" Lexan but your needs may vary. If you are going to mount the window without an external appearance frame, I suggest using screws with a neoprene or soft plastic washer under the head. Externally applied plastic windows usually fail when stress cracks develop from overly tightened screws. Apply bedding compound around the outside of the window opening then screw the plastic window in place, only moderately tightening the screws. Remove the extruded bedding compound from both inside and outside. An external appearance frame looks nice but is really not necessary for seaworthyness. I've done this job on various sailboats about a dozen times over the last 20 years and havn't has a structural failure yet. I hope neatness doesn't count. Larry Zeitlin From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 15 12:01:03 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:01:03 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Lexan vs. Plexiglas & Beddiing a Bomar In-Reply-To: <807C87879475D411B1420060B057FD438337EC@sbntex1.baea.com.au> Message-ID: <001101c0f5b4$65deea00$abee4e0c@KennethMcQuage> > > Apparently new (sharp) bits tend to grab as they exit the drill hole, resulting in cracking. > The angle of the drill bit for plastics is much less than that for other materials - to prevent this grabbing effect -and may usually be obtained from any plastics shop. It might be worth an extra 2-3 bucks to get the proper drill if you are really worried about it ... A normal drill bit may be used with caution however . Make certain that the hole drilled for the screw is over size to allow for expansion of the plastic -- or it will surely crack very quickly . Likewise a counter sunk screw provides to close a fit and does not allow for the expansion of the plastic - if at all possible use a pan head screw and a washer - in a hole larger than the screw - and caulk with a soft material which will allow movement - such as Boatlife Lifeseal .. Silicon adheres well to anything with silicon in it - such as tile -or glass - it does not adhere well to plastics - which is why it is so easily removed . It is also microporous and will allow some moisture to penetrate - over time allowing mildew to grow even behind it-- as it does when used as a sealer around your tub or shower at home .. For bedding a Bomar I like the Butyl rubber ribbon tape which is used for installing Sunroofs in cars and fancy windows in Vans - etc It is made by several manf's and usually available from Advance Auto ( formerly Western Auto ) and many other Auto Supply houses .. made by 3M and others .. When Installing A Bomar with this or any other caulk that you prefer - be careful not to overtighten - which forces the caulking out - leaving to little in the gap to allow for expansion movement of the hatch itself .. All the Best Ken From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jun 15 12:23:34 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:23:34 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Bedding a Hatch Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F41@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:39:31 -0700 From: Frank Osborne Subject: TWL: Bedding a Hatch >One of our hatches has started to leak, the one over the master bed of course, and I have removed the hatch and will clean up all of the old bedding material but I wanted suggestions on what to use to rebed the hatch. 3M 5200, 4200, silicon? I don't have enough experience to suggest the best bedding material, but I can say that 5200 is a pretty permanent bonding adhesive. It's great if you don't anticipate having to remove the part, but if you think that sometime in the future you may want to remove that hatch for some reason, I think the use of 5200 would make it a very difficult job. The shipwright who has done some work on our boat prefers the old standby Dolphinite (sp?) for most bedding jobs. However, that may not be the appropriate material for sealing a hatch assembly to the top of a fiberglass cuddy or aft cabin. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From schooleymike@pe.net Fri Jun 15 00:36:44 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:36:44 -0700 Subject: FW: [Fwd: TWL: Batteries] In-Reply-To: <[Fwd: TWL: Batteries]> Message-ID: Thataway@aol.com wrote, "With all due respect to Mike's technical expertise, I must say that the majority of boats out there cruising successfully use flooded cell batteries--and this includes thousands of sailboats whose heeling is far and beyond what recreational tawlers will ever see in rolls." With all due respect to Bob's superior boating experience, I've never liked the, "because we've always done it that way" response. My safety instructor once told me, "The most dangerous hazards are the most familiar ones." We don't think twice about putting flooded batteries on our boats and probably ignore 90% on the safety warnings on the instructions that we didn't read, but if someone said they wanted to mount a vented tub of sulfuric acid on our boat, we'd think they were nuts. We tolerated these hazards for decades because there was no alternative. Now that there is an alternative, you have become accustom to the hazard. That doesn't make it go away. I'll bet Bob could think of many similar examples from his medical career. Smoking can't be bad for me, I've done it all my life. Sorry Doctor, but I decided to take my seconds cousins advice, instead of yours, and ... "Some boaters have gone to AGM and Gel cells--many with gel cells have come back to flooded, because of their intolerance to overvoltage." Many a bad AGM and/or Gel battery experience has been caused by switching to them without making the necessary or required changes to the charging system. It isn't rocket science, but it has to be done correctly or the results will most assuredly be bad. With a properly configured charging system it SHOULD be impossible to over charge the batteries. I think a good way to cover your "6" is to use Concord's charging system. What could be better than getting the batteries and charger all from the same company? If anything goes wrong it is still their fault and the come from the factory properly configured for Lifeline AGM batteries. http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/ChargersRegulatros.asp "Flooded lead acid batteries are still a very viable and economical choice." Yes, they are. However, IMHO, they aren't a smart choice for a boat or the most economical option. You don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you. If I determine I was wrong, this list will be the first to know and I'll eat a ton of crow. In the mean time, I will be using spill-proof batteries in my boat and unless something better comes along before construction starts, I'll use AGM batteries. I think I'll have good company. According to http://www.aapspower.com/conlifsermar.html the following OEM Equipment Boat Builders offer Concord Lifeline AGM batteries as standard or optional equipment. Alden Yachts Bounty Motor Yachts Budsin Woodcraft Cabo Yachts Cabo Rico Yachts Channel Coast Yacht Charles Didham Yachts Christensen Shipyards Derecktor Shipyards Dettling Yacht Company Duffield Electric Boats Eastport Electric Boat Co., Inc. Electric Launch Co.,L.L.C. Endeavor Catamaran Hines-Farley Offshore Yachts Hinckley Company Lyman-Morse Boatbuilding Co.,Inc. Maine Cat Morris Yacht Co. Northcoast Yachts North Sea Yachts Oyster Marine U.K. Oxford Boatyards Pacific Asian Enterprises Pacific Seacraft Corp. Pacific Trawlers Performance Yachts Pierce Yacht Co.,Inc. Performance Yachts Pierce Yacht Co.,Inc. Sam L. Morese Co. Sabre Corporation Sincerely; Mike Schooley Future Trailerable Trawler owner From pgslo@juno.com Fri Jun 15 12:56:01 2001 From: pgslo@juno.com (pgslo@juno.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:56:01 -0700 Subject: TWL: Bedding a Hatch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010615.101218.-297793.2.pgslo@juno.com> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:39:31 -0700 Frank Osborne writes: >but I wanted suggestions on what to use to rebed > the > hatch 5200, 4200, silicon? Look at the BoatLife products. In some cases, better than 5200 in my opinion. Patrick WILLARD 40PH ,,`,, ALOHA From pgslo@juno.com Fri Jun 15 13:06:01 2001 From: pgslo@juno.com (pgslo@juno.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:06:01 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010615.101218.-297793.3.pgslo@juno.com> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:54:08 -0400 Captain Al Pilvinis writes: > "If you cant predict > the weather, and its blowing like stink your better off tied to a > dock or > in a calm anchorage". From your own description you were taking > punishment. > Why? Were you on a tight schedule or do you get your jollies this > way. I've > been caught in weather like that but you'll never see me go out into > it > with my eyes wide open. I think most of us are involved in PLEASURE > BOATING. We can predict the weather.........it is always like this! This IS pleasure boating! ARGHHHHH, central California, where sailors are sailors and full displacement boats are a must. I have been told by world cruisers with much more experience than I, that if I can survive in the central California marine environment, I can survive anywhere! Bring it on weather gods! Patrick WILLARD 40PH ,,`,, ALOHA Port San Luis, CA From pgslo@juno.com Fri Jun 15 12:55:34 2001 From: pgslo@juno.com (pgslo@juno.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:55:34 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Vacum Bagger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010615.101218.-297793.1.pgslo@juno.com> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:40:25 -0400 "Ksard" writes: > I'll second the Foodsaver comments > They were selling them at Costco for a while Still available at Costco in Santa Maria, CA. Saw them there yesterday. Patrick WILLARD 40PH ,,`,, ALOHA From jim@mccorison.com Fri Jun 15 13:12:20 2001 From: jim@mccorison.com (Jim McCorison) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:12:20 -0700 Subject: TWL: Batteries Message-ID: <3B2A41F4.F67A6E92@mccorison.com> Mike wrote: > If it moves, there is a finite chance that it could roll to the point > where flooded batteries will spill sulfuric acid. The potential risk > and cost of an acid spill far exceeds any potential cost savings of > golf cart batteries over AGM batteries. Mike, In the military arena that you design for this makes sense. In the arena of ocean voyaging vessels designed to withstand a full knockdown or roll this makes sense. But for the vast majority of people on this list, I would imagine that the issue of acid spill from inverted batteries is pretty much the least of their worries. We have a wood 38' DeFever trawler. Believe me, if we roll inverted it won't matter a whit if any acid spills in the bilge or not as the entire boat will be a wreck. Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From jim@mccorison.com Fri Jun 15 13:23:47 2001 From: jim@mccorison.com (Jim McCorison) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:23:47 -0700 Subject: TWL: Water "lift" or "lock" mufflers Message-ID: <3B2A44A3.B24CFF5@mccorison.com> Michael wrote: > run a line over the side to creat a positive vent to atmosphere--this > is a guarantee against syphoning water back into the engine. Almost guaranteed. Our new-to-us boat has this arrangement. One of the things the PO mentioned was to make sure that water is actually running out the tube whenever you start up. (Just add it to your post start up checks like check for water coming out the exhaust.) If water is not running out this tube, but is running out the exhaust, DO NOT shutdown the engine. Instead, go below and figure out what is blocking the line. Insects and mud daubers (sp?) can sometimes set up housekeeping in this line. If you shut down the engine with this tube blocked you run the risk of back flooding the engine from the syphon. Please note that I don't know if this is actually possible. I'm just passing on what was told to me. And the reasoning seems sound. Jim McCorison M/V Maana Seattle, WA From Thataway@aol.com Fri Jun 15 13:30:47 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:30:47 EDT Subject: TWL: Batteries Message-ID: Michael Schooley makes a number of very valid points. There is no question in my mind that AGM batteries and attendant charging systems are excellent--and in many ways superior to flooded lead acid batteries. What I am trying to point out is that many boaters due to ignorance or circumstances are placed in positions that will dammage these batteries. These are mainly heat and overcharging. If you utalize the specific chargers and regulators (including temperature feed back) the life will be long. One article I read states that the AGM batteries should not be charged in an ambiant temperature of greater than 120 degrees (this is an RV source). Thus you should place your batteries in an environment where the temp does not reach 120 degrees---I can assure you that my engine room exceeds 120 degrees often--even sitting at the dock on occasion. If I had unlimited resources and was building a new boat, I would probably get AGM batteries. (and I would install a spare Statpower charger and have spare alternators/regulators). To change my boat currently would cost me about $3,500 ( four 8 D at about $500 each, two group 27 @ $200 each, two new alternators@ $500 each and regulators at $250 to $300 each (with temp sensors). I probably would also change out the regulator on my genset 30 amp alternator--I am lucky since I have Statpower and Heart chargers and inveters which have temperature sensors available and will save over $2,000 there. Now I would have to have a back up Statpower charger and alternator/regulator for the main engines at a cost of another thousand dollars for back up--as it is I have a standard alternator and regulator and an old ferroresonate charger as back up--these potentially would dammage an AGM. Yet I purchase my 8 D's for about $80--and they last at least 4 to 5 years. (incidently the above did not even address my golf cart bank which I run the 110 volt refer from--I have no price list for the 6 volt AGM--or might go with three more 8 D's). The point is that although the AGM is superior, it is not a matter of life and death such as smoking etc. What will happen is that some part of the system--alternator regulator, charger, battery, inverter solar pannel regulator/wind generator regulator--WILL FAIL, and the cruiser is in Mexico, the Bahamas etc--what replacement or repair is available?--it will be very basic and very possiably fry your expensive batteries. Mike I am not knocking AGM--if you are building a new boat--go for them--if you have the spare bucks in an existing boat go for them. Best Regards, Bob Austin From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Fri Jun 15 15:25:13 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:25:13 -0700 Subject: TWL: Bedding a Hatch In-Reply-To: <20010615145957.15052.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Dan Symula > The seal > around the hatch is not perfect (but the rubber gasket > is ok), as opposed to the hatch iself leaking. It > appears the wood part is warped some, as I can look > through and see the sun shine through a crack. I think > this problem is a bit different than Franks. > > Anyone have a suggestion on how to seal this? I've had good luck using Lexol caulking, which is like silicone on steroids. If you carefully wrap the hatch tightly with Saran Wrap, the Lexol won't stick to it. Makes for a perfect seal! If the gap is too big, however, the Lexol will never set up, and make a big mess. You can build out the hatch with epoxy thicked with sawdust (google the archives for "schmutz"), and fair it out to get a good fit. This will leave a schmutz-colored area on what might very well be nice woodwork. Maybe wrap the whole thing in epoxy/cloth, and use strips of cloth to build up the naughty edge. That would be at least clear, and not as obnoxious as the schmutz. Or tear out the rubber gasket, and replace it with a beefier one. Sorry I couldn't be more specific, but I'd have to see the problem. Good Luck! ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From Joe@JRE.com Fri Jun 15 16:00:55 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:00:55 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on th e way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7261553@WINNTSRV> Ahem... Patrick old boy... I think if you count up the number of central California full displacement power boats, versus the number of semi-displacement and planing hulls, you will find that the full displacement crowd is dramatically outnumbered. Our old Tollycraft can take that crap pretty well. It's us that chicken out, or just get tired of it. Joe Engel -----Original Message----- From: pgslo@juno.com [mailto:pgslo@juno.com] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 10:06 AM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: Re: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco We can predict the weather.........it is always like this! This IS pleasure boating! ARGHHHHH, central California, where sailors are sailors and full displacement boats are a must. I have been told by world cruisers with much more experience than I, that if I can survive in the central California marine environment, I can survive anywhere! Bring it on weather gods! Patrick WILLARD 40PH ,,`,, ALOHA Port San Luis, CA From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Fri Jun 15 16:10:00 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:10:00 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #348 In-Reply-To: <72.bb9011c.285b8b90@aol.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of > LRZeitlin@aol.com > I assume that the windows are to be mounted on the external > surface of the > hull or deckhouse and not contained in frames. That's actually > the best way > to mount Lexan but it doesn't look as neat. Have you thought about using that Flex Trim stuff? An example is on page 491 of the 2001 West Marine Master Catalog, in the Rubrails and Extrusions category. Haven't used it, myself, but it looks like an interesting solution to the raw edge problem. ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 15 16:17:13 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:17:13 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Bedding Acrylic etc In-Reply-To: <66.10467afc.285ba334@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c0f5d8$2cfd1b20$19fd4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Hi Bob, I agree some of the structural stuff is pretty good - but not readily available from general suppliers - unless sought out from speciality supply house - and even then you kinda got to be in the know to get the right one ..( even what you got from the plastics supplier was not the ' right stuff ' )----. at least one of the high tech Silicons -developed for the Space program is even electrically conductive - I have never been able to afford a tube of that stuff even to play with ! Sounds like you used the equal of 5200 for plastics - hope that you do not ever have to replace those windows again due to mishap -- could be a devil of a job .. I aslo agree that 1/32 of inch clearance in the screw hole is usually enough - if the windows are not subject to extemes of temperature - from Freeze Dried to Deep Fried -- If that is the case however - I would use just a bit more .. All the Best Ken From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 15 16:21:08 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:21:08 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fw: Boating Safety -update Message-ID: <000d01c0f5d8$b7996b80$19fd4e0c@KennethMcQuage> The following Msg was received from the Flight Safety Officer at Patuxant Naval Air Station - Best etc. Ken __________________________________________________________________________ > > > _______ > > > All, > > > > > > I received this information from the Maryland Natural Resources Police and > > > wanted to pass it along - it may affect those of you that are boaters (or > > > those that are wannabe boaters like me): > > > > > > NOTICE TO BOATERS - MANDATORY LIFEJACKET REQUIREMENT > > > > > > Effective June 1, 2001, all children under the age of 7 must WEAR a United > > > States Coast Guard approved Personal Flotation Device (Life Jacket - Type > > > I, II, III or V) while underway on a recreational vessel under 21 feet in > > > length on Maryland waters. > > > > > > The Life Jacket must be the proper size for the child and must be in good > > > and serviceable condition. > > > > > > This requirement does not apply when: > > > > > > * A vessel is moored or anchored. > > > * A child is below deck or in an enclosed cabin. From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Fri Jun 15 16:38:53 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:38:53 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Lexan vs. Plexiglas Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6705DDA@BCMAIL1> Arild writes Many years ago when I worked with plexiglas on a regular basis I was advised to regrind my drills with a much blunter tip angle. The "grabbing" which occurs as the drill exits is reduced greatly when the cutting edge is almost parallel to the exit surface. Running the drill slower also helps. For larger holes we also used cutting oil. Having a "blunt" cutting edge is not recommended as this produces more heat and the hole smears. For cutting plexi with a sawblade I use a triple grind carbide sawblade in my table saw. In the plexiglas shop we used a table saw with a belt drive so we could slow down the cutting speed to half of what we used for normal wood working. Cheers Arild -----Original Message----- From: BRAY, Scott [mailto:scott.bray@baesystems.com] Subject: TWL: Lexan vs. Plexiglas Scott wrote: A friend who owns a boat shop and regularly replaces screens on ski boats advised me to use a "well worn" drill bit when drilling pexiglass etc. Apparently new (sharp) bits tend to grab as they exit the drill hole, resulting in cracking. From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Fri Jun 15 16:39:06 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:39:06 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6705DDD@BCMAIL1> Bob Austin wrote: What I am trying to point out is that many boaters due to ignorance or circumstances are placed in positions that will damage these batteries. These are mainly heat and overcharging. If you utilize the specific chargers and regulators (including temperature feed back) the life will be long. One article I read states that the AGM batteries should not be charged in an ambient temperature of greater than 120 degrees F (this is an RV source). Thus you should place your batteries in an environment where the temp does not reach 120 degrees---I can assure you that my engine room exceeds 120 degrees often--even sitting at the dock on occasion. Arild comments: I have often had RV'ers complain about thermal runaway conditions while charging batteries in the southern deserts. Apparently, it isn't uncommon to see 150F close to the desert floor in the afternoon. Even 3 feet above the desert floor you still see temperatures above 130F Boats by comparison are much cooler. What I don't understand is why not try water cooling. We use water cooling for our engines, A/C some fridge's and compressors etc. So why not run water over the battery cases as a way to carry away excess heat. While experimenting with a battery suspected of having a faulty cell I placed it in the water stream from a glacial fed spring next to my campsite. Despite pumping 20 amps plus into the battery for ten hours it remained cool. ( yes this was a destructive product test!) Seems to me the technical problems are no more difficult than others we have already solved onboard. cheers Arild From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Fri Jun 15 18:38:12 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:38:12 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: <20010615.101218.-297793.3.pgslo@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010615183812.007acd60@earthlink.net> >We can predict the weather.........it is always like this! This IS >pleasure boating! ARGHHHHH, central California, where sailors are >sailors and full displacement boats are a must. I have been told by >world cruisers with much more experience than I, that if I can survive in >the central California marine environment, I can survive anywhere! Bring >it on weather gods! =============================================================== Patrick -------- you make me feel good that I only have the Devil's Triangle to contend with. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From weidner@waterw.com Fri Jun 15 19:25:30 2001 From: weidner@waterw.com (K2JXW / ARLHS.COM) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:25:30 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Chesapeake Cruise In-Reply-To: <003801c0f531$b256a7c0$7a192c42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: Good site to sign up for a Chesapeake Bay ListBot: www.waterw.com/~weidner/boating.htm Scroll down to the blue "Attention Boaters" heading. Also check out all the other features of this site which is devoted solely to Chesapeake and Delaware Bays (noncommercial). 73 Jim, K2JXW, Amateur Radio Lighthouse Society, Member #001 U S Coast Guard Auxiliary -- USCGAUX, Flotilla 06-05-160 Lightship Sailors Association -- LSA http://arlhs.com ================================================= . -----Original Message----- . From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com . [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Ksard . Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 20:26 PM . To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com . Subject: TWL: Re: Chesapeake Cruise . . . For cruising the Chesapeake you might want to check out . http://ChesapeakeCruising.com . There are a number of good anchorages there. You will find the . most around . the middle bay (that section from just north of the Bay Bridge to . the mouth . of the Potomac River). These are anchorages suggested by bay cruisers and . many are not published in the guides. . . There is also an e-mail list similar to this one where you might . want to ask . questions. The list is pretty quiet, but the listees will respond when . asked for suggestions. . . There are lots of things to do and see along the way. Baltimore Harbor, . Annapolis, St. Michaels, Oxford, Solomons are just a few of the places you . should check out. My favorite cruise is from Annapolis up to Baltimore . Harbor, then across the bay to Rock Hall. Head down through the Kent . Narrows and on to St. Michaels. Go back out in the bay and . around Tilghman . Island and up the Choptank to Oxford. After that you could head back out . into the bay and down to Crisfield. Whatever you decide to do, I know you . will have a great time. Be prepared for some muggy weather . though. August . on the bay can be brutal. . . Hope this helped . Keven Sard . Web Editor . Chesapeake Cruising . . . Have You Seen Your Boat Today? . www.ModemCam.Com . Remote Observation Systems . . >"Ralph Sloan" . >Subject: TWL: Chesapeake Cruise . . >We are planning a 3+ week cruise of the Chesapeake this July- . >Augustending up at the Monk 36 Rendezvous in Crisfield MD. We . >will be leaving NY, going down the NJ coast, up the Deleware, and . >across the Canal. Have consulted several cruising guides for . >anchorages and marinas but don't have an overall "tour" in mind. . >Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks . . ------------------------------ . . >Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:35:36 -0400 . >From: Whicher Robert E BATH . >Subject: TWL: RE: Chesapeake Cruise . . >From: Ralph Sloan . >We are planning a 3+ week cruise of the Chesapeake . . >My wife and I are also planning on 3-4 week cruise in Chesapeake during . >September and would welcome your "Favorite Anchorages" . . >Bob Whicher . . > From rbryett@mail.com Fri Jun 15 20:18:32 2001 From: rbryett@mail.com (Robert Bryett) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:18:32 +1000 Subject: TWL: RE: bladder type holding tanks In-Reply-To: <004801c0f35b$d88f0900$df47de18@ibmam82895> Message-ID: >>>>So, if anyone has used the bladder type holding tanks and would like to comment, we would appreciate it.<<<< I have some experience with bladder holding tanks on sailing yachts, and I'd say avoid them if possible because: 1. Bladders are essentially impossible to secure properly. In rough conditions they always move a little, and so eventually chafe, leak and smell. 2. Bladders are difficult to vent properly. Even if ventilation is provided at all, a non-rigid tank can form pockets in which clumps of human waste sit rotting away anaerobically. Eventually the smell will percolate though the bladder's walls and force you to replace the tank even if it isn't visibly leaking. Regards, Robert Bryett Sydney, Australia. mailto:rbryett@mail.com From doughoople@earthlink.net Fri Jun 15 12:57:20 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:57:20 +0100 Subject: FW: [Fwd: TWL: Batteries] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B2A3E70.4D699E5@earthlink.net> Mike, I think you're trying to bully us all into admitting that you're right, and that AGMs are the only smart choice of a battery to put on a boat. Give it a rest. There are lots of boats out there, and lots of reasons for lots of different ways of doing things. I'm glad you're happy with your choice. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA Michael Schooley wrote: > Thataway@aol.com wrote, > > "With all due respect to Mike's technical expertise, I must say that the > majority of boats out there cruising successfully use flooded cell > batteries--and this includes thousands of sailboats whose heeling is far > and beyond what recreational tawlers will ever see in rolls." > > With all due respect to Bob's superior boating experience, I've never liked > the, "because we've always done it that way" response. My safety instructor > once told me, "The most dangerous hazards are the most familiar ones." We > don't think twice about putting flooded batteries on our boats and probably > ignore 90% on the safety warnings on the instructions that we didn't read, > but if someone said they wanted to mount a vented tub of sulfuric acid on > our boat, we'd think they were nuts. We tolerated these hazards for decades > because there was no alternative. Now that there is an alternative, you have > become accustom to the hazard. That doesn't make it go away. I'll bet Bob > could think of many similar examples from his medical career. Smoking can't > be bad for me, I've done it all my life. Sorry Doctor, but I decided to take > my seconds cousins advice, instead of yours, and ... > > "Some boaters have gone to AGM and Gel cells--many with gel cells have come > back to > flooded, because of their intolerance to overvoltage." > > Many a bad AGM and/or Gel battery experience has been caused by switching to > them without making the necessary or required changes to the charging > system. It isn't rocket science, but it has to be done correctly or the > results will most assuredly be bad. With a properly configured charging > system it SHOULD be impossible to over charge the batteries. I think a good > way to cover your "6" is to use Concord's charging system. What could be > better than getting the batteries and charger all from the same company? If > anything goes wrong it is still their fault and the come from the factory > properly configured for Lifeline AGM batteries. > http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/ChargersRegulatros.asp > > "Flooded lead acid batteries are still a very viable and economical choice." > > Yes, they are. However, IMHO, they aren't a smart choice for a boat or the > most economical option. > > You don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you. If I > determine I was wrong, this list will be the first to know and I'll eat a > ton of crow. In the mean time, I will be using spill-proof batteries in my > boat and unless something better comes along before construction starts, > I'll use AGM batteries. I think I'll have good company. According to > http://www.aapspower.com/conlifsermar.html the following OEM Equipment Boat > Builders offer Concord Lifeline AGM batteries as standard or optional > equipment. > Alden Yachts > Bounty Motor Yachts > Budsin Woodcraft > Cabo Yachts > Cabo Rico Yachts > Channel Coast Yacht > Charles Didham Yachts > Christensen Shipyards > Derecktor Shipyards > Dettling Yacht Company > Duffield Electric Boats > Eastport Electric Boat Co., Inc. > Electric Launch Co.,L.L.C. > Endeavor Catamaran > Hines-Farley Offshore Yachts > Hinckley Company > Lyman-Morse Boatbuilding Co.,Inc. > Maine Cat > Morris Yacht Co. > Northcoast Yachts > North Sea Yachts > Oyster Marine U.K. > Oxford Boatyards > Pacific Asian Enterprises > Pacific Seacraft Corp. > Pacific Trawlers > Performance Yachts > Pierce Yacht Co.,Inc. > Performance Yachts > Pierce Yacht Co.,Inc. > Sam L. Morese Co. > Sabre Corporation > > Sincerely; > Mike Schooley > Future Trailerable Trawler owner From slowboat@mindspring.com Fri Jun 15 23:33:20 2001 From: slowboat@mindspring.com (Andy Clark) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:33:20 -0700 Subject: TWL: Water-lift Mufflers Message-ID: <002601c0f615$191c3900$701e1c3f@tinyus> > Michael Oritt wrote: > Are you sure they didn't mean that there needs to be at least 12" of fall > from the highest point of the exhaust line to the muffler? In other words, > you can carry your wet section after the injection point in a loop up and > then back down to the vernalift. Check this out with them. > ---- > Mike, with all due respect, this is not a good idea. If you loop the exhaust hose wet section higher than the water injection point, the uphill portion of the exhaust line will retain water, especially at idle, which upon engine shut-down could (and is likely to) drain back into the exhaust manifold, thence into any cylinder whose exhaust valve is open. This could result in a hydrolock the next time you crank the engine. The situation becomes worse if you have, for whatever reason, been cranking the engine longer than normal (cold weather start, restart after fuel line air ingestion, etc.). In this instance there is no appreciable exhaust flow to blow most of the cooling water efflux "up the hill", and the only place it can go is backward into the cylinders. Keep the exhaust run downhill from the water injection point all the way to the Vernalift. Andy Clark ANTARES CHB 34 Homeport, Everett Washington From listsub@circlesys.com Sat Jun 16 00:58:19 2001 From: listsub@circlesys.com (Steven Dubnoff) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:58:19 -0700 Subject: TWL: More on AGM vs Flooded Batteries Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010615214806.03110c80@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At the risk of beating some dead horses here, I would like to call attention to a very cogent argument for Lifeline Batteries I found by accident searching with Google: http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/ Incidentally, while pricing out batteries recently, I found that Concorde(the manufacturer of Lifeline), produces a line of batteries for the solar energy market called "Sun Xtender" batteries that are, except for their arguably superior terminals, identical to Lifeline "Marine" batteries. They are available on the web at prices that are considerably lower than Lifelines. When I called a Concord salesperson, he said these were in fact identical to the marine batteries. Best, Steve Steve Dubnoff Nauticat 40 M/S, Pyxis in Washington sdubnoff@circlesys.com From klemmons@airmail.net Sat Jun 16 01:22:47 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:22:47 -0500 Subject: TWL: Removing vinyl letters Message-ID: <3B2AED27.629A0ED2@airmail.net> 3M makes a rubber wheel that you chuck up into a drill to remove vinyl letters. It's about the consistency of a pencil eraser, and works great! Another company makes one too, but I can't remember the brand name. Ask around at your ship's store. Another solution is EZ-Off oven cleaner. Spray it on, wait a bit, then scrape with plastic. P.S. I like AGM batteries! (just HAD to throw that in!) -- __________________ Keith Coming soon: Windows for Nintendo! From Rollsdoc@aol.com Sat Jun 16 07:25:57 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:25:57 EDT Subject: TWL: Removing vinyl letters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90.15defea4.285c9c45@aol.com> In a message dated 6/16/01 1:15:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, klemmons@airmail.net writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> Watch the easy off. Check to see if the stern is painted. It works great on gell coat but it's a paint remover. Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH From JKT99@prodigy.net Sat Jun 16 10:14:59 2001 From: JKT99@prodigy.net (John E Garrison) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:14:59 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00d801c0f66e$bbcd4000$b70effd1@vaio> From: wrote: > I received several suggestions about throw rugs with rubberized backings that > would again stick and make marks on the teak and holly floor. Most said to > enjoy my floors and then use chemicals to remove the build-up from the > underlayment. A rather tardy reply: We have had success using those rubber rings from fruit canning jars (the old Mason type jars). Just sew one under each corner, or if round or oval rugs, sew a few around the circumference. Stops the slipping and they haven't affected the wood floors at all. May work for you too. Regards, John Garrison "Just Keel-ing Time" Lake Norman, NC From schooleymike@pe.net Sat Jun 16 00:02:18 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:02:18 -0700 Subject: FW: [Fwd: TWL: Batteries] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Doug Hoople wrote, "Mike, I think you're trying to bully us all into admitting that you're right, and that AGMs are the only smart choice of a battery to put on a boat. Give it a rest. There are lots of boats out there, and lots of reasons for lots of different ways of doing things. I'm glad you're happy with your choice." I wonder who is trying to bully whom? I thought was providing useful information that some list members might be unaware of. Nobody is forcing you to read my posts and you have a delete key. So what is the real problem? I did not intend to insinuate that anybody with working flooded acid batteries should "deep 6" them and purchase AGM batteries. As Bob Austin pointed out, it isn't a life or death matter. I also understand that their are additional cost that must be considered when switching from one type of battery to another and this favors maintaining the status quo. I just want people to be aware of the trade-offs and make intelligent decisions. In consideration of those with constrained band width, I'll endeavor to moderate my discussion on batteries, but if someone posts something I believe is in error, I reserve the right to in my two cents, or is it two bits? Sincerely; Mike Schooley Future Trailerable Trawler owner From schooleymike@pe.net Sat Jun 16 00:02:16 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:02:16 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: More on AGM vs Flooded Batteries In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010615214806.03110c80@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: Steve Dubnoff wrote, "Incidentally, while pricing out batteries recently, I found that Concorde(the manufacturer of Lifeline), produces a line of batteries for the solar energy market called "Sun Xtender" batteries that are, except for their arguably superior terminals, identical to Lifeline "Marine" batteries. They are available on the web at prices that are considerably lower than Lifelines. When I called a Concord salesperson, he said these were in fact identical to the marine batteries. If you search the archive, you will see I posted the following on March 14th, http://www.samurai.com/lists/trawler-world-old/2001/03/0583.html . At the least there are warranty differences between the SunXtender (PVX) and the Lifeline (GPL) batteries. I would verify that the Warranty would be valid if you use SunXtender batteries in a marine application and confirm, with someone more knowledgeable and forthcoming than a SunXtender $ale$man, that there aren't physical differences between SunXtender and Lifeline models. Sincerely; Mike Schooley Future Trailerable Trawler owner From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Sat Jun 16 12:09:52 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:09:52 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: More on AGM vs Flooded Batteries Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34055@BCMAIL1> Steve Dubnoff wrote: When I called a Concord salesperson, he said these were in fact identical to the marine batteries. Mike Schooley wrote: At the least there are warranty differences between the SunXtender (PVX) and the Lifeline (GPL) batteries. I would verify that the Warranty would be valid if you use SunXtender batteries in a marine application Both Mike and Steve have valid points. The difference between solar and marine is the cycling and depth of discharge. Most solar applications do not deep cycle the batteries and the solar panel maintains a steady but moderate charging rate over a long time period. Marine applications do nearly the opposite. Deep discharges with short intense charging once a day or every other day. If you have paid attention to previous posts you will know that depth of discharge and number of cycles have a profound effect on battery life no matter what kind of construction. Cheers Arild --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Sat Jun 16 12:11:33 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:11:33 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Fw: Boating Safety -update In-Reply-To: <000d01c0f5d8$b7996b80$19fd4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Message-ID: We have a similar kids-in-PFDs law out here in California. It's great, as you can more easily tie them to a stanchion to keep 'em from running around! ;) It's something like a $280 fine if you get caught on a jet ski without a PFD. There's also starting to be Breathalyzer tests on launch ramps (mostly on the Colorado River). If you're caught, it's just like you were driving your car in that condition. But you'll probably lose your boat. ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From jim_donohue@computer.org Sat Jun 16 12:33:03 2001 From: jim_donohue@computer.org (Jim Donohue) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:33:03 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: RE: More on AGM vs Flooded Batteries In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34055@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: Uhhh Home solar - Don't think so. My experience base is only one installation in rural AZ but that place ran the batteries to under 50% most nights and could charge them pretty well back up in a couple of hours on a summer morning. Consider that you want to be able to fully charge the bank on a cloudy winters day and then see what you get on a bright summer day. It was designed by the simple strategy of adding batteries until it discharged around 50% and then the solar arrays were added until it would charge in about 8 hours on a winter's day. Had a diesel generator to augment if it did not all work out. Jim > > Most solar applications do not deep cycle the batteries and the > solar panel > maintains a steady but moderate charging rate over a long time period. > Marine applications do nearly the opposite. Deep discharges with short > intense charging once a day or every other day. > If you have paid attention to previous posts you will know that depth of > discharge and number of cycles have a profound effect on battery life no > matter what kind of construction. > > Cheers > > Arild > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 > > From scaramouche@tvo.org Sat Jun 16 12:36:55 2001 From: scaramouche@tvo.org (George Geist) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:36:55 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Re: Carpets that work and don't stick In-Reply-To: <00d801c0f66e$bbcd4000$b70effd1@vaio> Message-ID: When I was in the photography business we used to buy a spray-on stuff from professional arts-supply stores, that would leave a film so that you could pull and reposition your artwork many times. There were two types, a permanent fixed spray and the moveable spray (the one I'm talking about) I don't remember the correct name, but it was from 3M and called "moveable photomount" or something like that. It might work for you. The spray goes on the artwork (photos), never on the backboard which was usually white or gray cardboard type stuff and never left a residue. George of Scaramouche P.s: It was NOT cheap! From rgano@mantech-pc.com Sat Jun 16 18:51:19 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:51:19 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Coolant Reservoir Message-ID: Brian, it is my understanding that you DO indeed need to replace the expansion tank filler neck on the Lehman engine when adding the recovery bottle. As I understand it, the old style cap is not a "double acting" one that will allow the coolant to be sucked back into the engine as it cools. I may be wrong, but what you have described is going to end up as a one-way system where the coolant goes only one way into the bottle. However, you say you have performed the operation - is the recovery bottle level rising and falling with engine operation followed by shut-down? Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB-42-295) Southport, FL From cmangin@email.msn.com Sat Jun 16 17:44:20 2001 From: cmangin@email.msn.com (Chris Mangin) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:44:20 -0400 Subject: TWL: Returning north In-Reply-To: <20010616040012.6B02826249@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <006b01c0f6af$a60c2f60$81e63d3f@oemcomputer> We'll be heading north in September... returning to Annapolis area via 3-week combo of ICW and outside. We haven't done this trip before... Are there any DON'T MISS sites or sights along the way? Any absolutely "mandatory" stops, anchorages, marinas, yacht cblus, restaurants, whatever, that we should plan for? Cheers, -Chris (RANGER, an Express Trawlerette from Dania Beach, FL) From doughoople@earthlink.net Sat Jun 16 12:17:23 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:17:23 +0100 Subject: FW: [Fwd: TWL: Batteries] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B2B8693.40EBBBD9@earthlink.net> Michael Schooley wrote: ...make intelligent decisions Thanks. We'll all endeavor to make intelligent decisions whenever we can. BTW. Does Concorde make either 1) an 8-volt or 2) a 32-volt battery? If not, well I don't have any choice whatsoever, because I'm on 32 volts. When you run 32 volts, everything you run lasts forever (I've got a 38-year-old freshwaterpump that I can't replace because it's still running(!!!!!). Take that, all you 12-volt types, and just try to tell me to buy AGM's. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Sat Jun 16 20:24:59 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: V berth window/hatch seal?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010617002459.37989.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> I decided to stop the condensation on the ceiling of my V berth today and attempted to replace the rubber seals/moulding on each of the windows in the V berth. A trip to worst marine and local boat yard yielded no rubber moulding to replace with. Some was available, but nothing close to what I needed. 1) Does anyone have a company they know that makes replacement moulding ? 2) Suggestions on a make your own? I thought of form a gasket or something similar. But.. the original is very thick and very strong. Dont think form a gasket can handle this big of a job. Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From jalexander@ticz.com Sat Jun 16 19:35:48 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:35:48 -0400 Subject: TWL: V berth window/hatch seal?? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010616193548.007b7a90@pop.ticz.com> Well, my first guess would be to try and contact the mfg of the hatch to see if replacement seals are available. Not having luck there I would probably try the automotive aftermarket. I have numerous rubber products catelogs that sell molded rubber gasket material in all sorts of shapes and sizes that were used in the automotive industry over the years. I would be willing to bet that a suitable match could be found from that source if no other exists. Jim Alexander From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Sat Jun 16 21:22:08 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: V berth window/hatch seal?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010616193548.007b7a90@pop.ticz.com> Message-ID: <20010617012208.84091.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> The window is actually Brass porthole. I looked on it for manufacturer and there is not one on it. Ill serach the auto market. thanks for the tip. --- Jim Alexander wrote: > Well, my first guess would be to try and contact the > mfg of the hatch to > see if replacement seals are available. Not having > luck there I would > probably try the automotive aftermarket. I have > numerous rubber products > catelogs that sell molded rubber gasket material in > all sorts of shapes and > sizes that were used in the automotive industry over > the years. I would be > willing to bet that a suitable match could be found > from that source if no > other exists. > > Jim Alexander ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From slowboat@mindspring.com Sun Jun 17 01:24:30 2001 From: slowboat@mindspring.com (Andy Clark) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 22:24:30 -0700 Subject: TWL: Fw: Water-lift Mufflers Message-ID: <001601c0f6ed$cb14e480$01c7173f@tinyus> Att received from Rich Gano. His regular server is down so he allowed me to post it for him. Andy Clark ANTARES CHB 34 Homeport, Everett Washington ================ > BTW, my exhaust lines also exit the muffler and immediately go up about > 2 feet to the underside of the engine room ceiling, same as yours. > Best regards. > > Andy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich Gano" > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 3:51 PM > Subject: TWL: Water-lift Mufflers > > > > Andy Clark said," If you loop the > > exhaust hose wet section higher than the water injection point, the uphill > > portion of the exhaust line will retain water, especially at idle, which > > upon engine shut-down could (and is likely to) drain back into the exhaust > > manifold, thence into any cylinder whose exhaust valve is open. This could > > result in a hydrolock the next time you crank the engine." > > > > And I say, been there done that. The original mufflers in CALYPSO were > > ABOVE the engine with a central exhaust pipe running up into the center of > > this monstrosity of a cylindrical steel muffler. The water was injected > > into the side of the muffler. The central exhaust pipe rotted out, and > > water normally left in the muffler at shut-down leaked down the exhaust > pipe > > and into number six cylinder. One day the engine started clanking like a > > bunch of old time railroad hammers hitting the spikes. Number six had > > finally had enough salt water, and the piston was just aslappin' around > > loose in there. On disassembly, we could see the rust streaks going down > > the side of the cylinder wall. If there is ANY way to keep muffler > cooling > > water from being above the level of the exhaust manifold - use it. Of > > course, if your exhaust manifold happens to be below the waterline, you're > > sort of stuck, but, barring that situation, I personally would be > extremely > > uncomfortable with the so-called anti-siphon arrangement that has a > tee-off > > loop of cooling water going above the engine and exiting the side of the > > boat. I cannot imagine an engine mounted such that you can't get > sufficient > > elevation to let the exhaust cooling water flow down to the muffler. My > > Vernalifts for both Lehmans are 6 inches below the bottom of the aft end > of > > the exhaust manifolds (which are themselves just above the waterline). > The > > exhausts leading OUT of the VERNALIFTS and thence aft rise about two feet > > above the mufflers to about the level of the boat's main deck. I put them > > there, and they've been fine since 1987. > > > > Rich Gano > > CALYPSO (GB-42-295) > > Southport, FL > > > > > From paul@browne.net Sun Jun 17 08:03:58 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 17 Jun 2001 05:03:58 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: vinyl letters Message-ID: <20010617120358.11680.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Hi Stan, Cyclohexanone will dissolve vinyl rather quickly. I don't know whether it would bother the paint, but I suspect it wouldn't. You might try a little on the paint in an inconspicuous spot. You can buy cyclohexanone from a lab chemical supplier. Use rubber gloves, not vinyl gloves :-> Cheers, Paul From paul@browne.net Sun Jun 17 08:07:30 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 17 Jun 2001 05:07:30 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: vinyl letters Message-ID: <20010617120730.11835.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Hi Stan, Cyclohexanone will dissolve vinyl rather quickly. I don't know whether it would bother the paint, but I suspect it wouldn't. You might try a little on the paint in an inconspicuous spot. You can buy cyclohexanone from a lab chemical supplier. Use rubber gloves, not vinyl gloves :-> Cheers, Paul From schooleymike@pe.net Sun Jun 17 00:52:28 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 21:52:28 -0700 Subject: TWL: Batteries In-Reply-To: <3B2B8693.40EBBBD9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Doug Hoople wrote, "Does Concorde make either 1) an 8-volt or 2) a 32-volt battery?" Sorry, neither Concorde or any other manufacturer that I could find builds 8 Volt AGM battery. However, and this may sound really stupid, Concorde does have 2 Volt batteries in the SunXtender (not marine labeled) line, although you would need to connect 16 batteries in series to get a 32 volt bank. http://www.concordebattery.com/products/psb_eleclspeifications.cfm The 20 Hr discharge rate capacity for the 2 Volt line ranges from 390 AH to 630 AH and the weight ranges from 50 to 60 lb. For comparison, 6 PVX-2510T batteries in parallel would give the same capacity as 2 PVX-12255L (8D) batteries in series. The weight comparison is 6*61 =366 versus 2*162 = 324 or 13% higher weight, plus interconnect cable differences. The 2 Volt batteries would be easier to handle, but a more involved wiring job. Another advantage is you could charge, test, equalize and replace "cells" individually. A multi-cell battery, with the cells in series, is only as good as its weakest cell. When one cell becomes weak, it discharges faster than the rest so its life is shortened. In addition, the power you can get out of the good cells is limited by the bad cell. With individual batteries, you could find and replace the weakest battery, instead of the entire bank. This works best when most of the batteries are still good and one is much weaker. When the entire bank gets tired you are better off replacing them all. BTW Concorde does build a 32 Volt charger. I'm actually considering a bank of 2 Volt batteries for my boat, but I am waiting for Concorde to explain the difference between the Lifeline and SunXtender lines. I also find the 32 Volt system intriguing. Do you have trouble getting 32 Volt components? Do you have to convert to 12 or 24 volt for some things? Would a 36 Volt system provide similar advantages? Best regards; Mike Schooley Future Trailerable Trawler owner From doughoople@earthlink.net Sun Jun 17 05:55:44 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 10:55:44 +0100 Subject: TWL: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B2C7E9F.25671145@earthlink.net> Mike, Thanks for the info on Concorde's product line. A 32-volt system is great, but it would be nice if there were more products on the market. It's an older standard that's not used anymore in smaller recreational boats. I think that commercial boats and megayachts still make use of it. Its primary advantage, as already noted, is that your components live a lot longer. On the list of original 38-year-old equipment, I've still got the radar, autopilot, fathometer and freshwater pump, and they all work great, on a boat that has been used actively throughout its life, and lived on for 12 years. I don't know the science for this, but I think it has to do with the impact of voltage drops, which are less severe when you have more volts to drop. You're also running fewer amps to get the same amount of power, which points to the second big advantage: your wiring can be a lot smaller. You should see how small the wires running to the windlass are! Its primary disadvantage is that the market for 32-volt components is very thin, so everything is hard to find. You can still outfit a boat completely on 32 volts, but you'd have to limit your choice of electronics, and I'm not sure you can even get multi-stage voltage regulators (although I haven't looked that hard). In that category, we have a 12-volt bank onboard (it was already this way when we bought it last November), primarily to run the console electronics. It's run on a pair of Group 27 lead-acids provided by American Battery, a local batterymaker here in the San Francisco Bay area. And yes, a 36-volt system would theoretically provide similar advantges, but you've still got to find stuff to use it with. The only really serious higher-voltage recreational boating option out there is to change over to 24 volts, which is the primary standard in several major markets outside the U.S. I've toyed with that idea, and will probably do that if I'm faced with any major electrical work. That way, you get some of the advantages of the higher voltage, but you'd gain back the choice of any equipment you'd want. It will be a major change, so I'm taking my time. It would mean replacing alternators, regulators, charger, batteries, windlass, etc. Plus there'd be changes to the wiring to support the higher amperage. All in all, something I'm not going to do lightly. In the meantime, everything's working fine, so I ain't gonna fix what ain't broke. If I were buying a new boat and the manufacturer gave me the option, I'd try to get a 24-volt system installed. I don't think that option's available in the American production market. Maybe we can start a trend. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From normrose@earthlink.net Sun Jun 17 15:11:15 2001 From: normrose@earthlink.net (Norman Rose) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:11:15 -0400 Subject: TWL: V berth window/hatch seal?? In-Reply-To: <20010617012208.84091.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B2D00D3.B77C6D05@earthlink.net> Dan & Jim, Yes, you might be ablr to find a seal you can adapt. A word of caution...the automotive formulation of the seal material may not provide the required degree of protection against ultra-violet rays fron the sun. You might want topaint the exposed part of the seal with a compatible protective paint, oe use an untra-violet protectorant like Armor All (often). Good luck in your search. Norm Rose There are more collect calls on this day than any other day of the year? > A. Father's Day From glennwaus@netspace.net.au Sun Jun 17 17:35:48 2001 From: glennwaus@netspace.net.au (Glenn Williams) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:35:48 +1000 Subject: TWL: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003d01c0f775$8e3bec60$5dfa0fd2@glennhome> You're right Doug. Here in Australia, whilst there are individual state survey authorities for professional craft, both working and passenger carrying, 24volt is the minimum standard. I have owned two boats "built to survey" and both have had 24V electrics. Both also had voltage droppers to run at least some of the panel electronics too! Cheers Glenn Williams "Stirling" Universal36 Port Phillip, Australia. From LRZeitlin@aol.com Sun Jun 17 19:46:10 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 19:46:10 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Hudson Valley info Message-ID: <61.f3eb0de.285e9b42@aol.com> For all planning a summer tour which includes the Hudson Valley, three FREE resources will make the trip easier and a lot more fun. Hudson Valley Tourism, (Inc. a consortium of all the NY county tourism offices along the Hudson) has just published a glossy illustrated brochure of interesting parks, historical sites (of which there are many), restaraunts, events. festivals, etc. Their phone is (800) 232-4782; www.enjoyhv.com. The May issue of Boating on the Hudson contains a list of all the fuel stops from NYC to Albany, including GPS coordinates, depth at dock and fuel type. The June issue of Boating on the Hudson contains a list of dining locations accessible from the river, including GPS coordinates, water depth, and reservation phone numbers. The web site is: www.boatingonthehudson.com. Enjoy, Larry Zeitlin From jhanlon@dc.com Sun Jun 17 20:45:42 2001 From: jhanlon@dc.com (Jim Hanlon) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:45:42 Subject: TWL: Re: Returning north Message-ID: If you missed Robert Foss' wonderful log (saga?) of his family's nearly exact same cruise, then go to http://www.hollowbox.net/digests/twldigest347.htm#topic_24 and check it out. I think it has exactly what you are seeking. ______________________________________ Sent with PAWSoft MiniMail Download MiniMail for FREE now! http://www.pawsoft.co.uk From Awgertoo@aol.com Sun Jun 17 20:47:46 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:47:46 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Water "lift" or "lock" mufflers Message-ID: In a message dated 6/15/01 1:24:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jim@mccorison.com writes: << Almost guaranteed. Our new-to-us boat has this arrangement. One of the things the PO mentioned was to make sure that water is actually running out the tube whenever you start up. (Just add it to your post start up checks like check for water coming out the exhaust.) If water is not running out this tube, but is running out the exhaust, DO NOT shutdown the engine. Instead, go below and figure out what is blocking the line. >> Jim-- You are correct--I guess I should have included this caveat, though I thought it would be understood. Aside from guaranteeing against back-siphoning (assuming you look to see that water is running out...) it also will give you an easy way to check that water is circulating on startup, and during running, eliminating having to check the exhaust. Best--Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From Awgertoo@aol.com Sun Jun 17 21:00:19 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 21:00:19 EDT Subject: TWL: Water-lift Mufflers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/15/01 11:36:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, slowboat@mindspring.com writes: << Mike, with all due respect, this is not a good idea. If you loop the exhaust hose wet section higher than the water injection point, the uphill portion of the exhaust line will retain water, especially at idle, which upon engine shut-down could (and is likely to) drain back into the exhaust manifold, thence into any cylinder whose exhaust valve is open. This could result in a hydrolock the next time you crank the engine. The situation becomes worse if you have, for whatever reason, been cranking the engine longer than normal (cold weather start, restart after fuel line air ingestion, etc.). In this instance there is no appreciable exhaust flow to blow most of the cooling water efflux "up the hill", and the only place it can go is backward into the cylinders. Keep the exhaust run downhill from the water injection point all the way to the Vernalift. Andy Clark >> Andy-- Sorry--that is what I meant to say! I agree the injection should be at the highest point as well and I just used the wrong words! Thanks for the good catch! Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From hbrink@earthlink.net Sun Jun 17 21:21:22 2001 From: hbrink@earthlink.net (Harold R. Brink, PE) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 21:21:22 -0400 Subject: TWL: Simple battery question In-Reply-To: <20010611040014.7D61E26241@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: As a new boater (to be?) and a long time truck guy, what is the difference in requirements for trawler v. Class 8 truck batteries? From foster.price@southlanddc.govt.nz Sun Jun 17 22:46:12 2001 From: foster.price@southlanddc.govt.nz (Foster Price) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:46:12 +1200 Subject: TWL: Bedding Plexiglass etc - was V berth window/hatch seal?? Message-ID: <61F4A96D5D7ED41184EC0090278D1F88404534@SDC_NT1> Hello Guys I have had a lot of luck over the years bedding plexiglass/Lexan windows and other fittings using domestic neoprene door seal material. This stuff is self adhesive one side and available in a great range of widths and depth at hardware stores. For a port light I would normally use a 1/4 to 3/8 depth, wide enough so the fastener has plenty of "meat" ( ie the fitting goes through the neoprene with plenty of clearance) around it. Don't use any bedding compound - at all - or you'll just get a huge mess. I usually put the sticky side on the fitting. I have made many different sorts of gaskets with this stuff eg for hatch lips, pumps etc. Make sure you get the black neoprene type (others are not so resistant to chemicals). This idea came from Brent Swain, a BC boat designer whose book is called "A heretics Guide to building better steel boats" - and is just that, although his ideas mostly work!! Foster Price From rgano@mantech-pc.com Mon Jun 18 02:45:23 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 23:45:23 -0700 Subject: TWL: Helping the Refrigerator/Cooling the People Space Message-ID: Well, here's a new topic that can get us off the dreary AGM battery tirades. Probably like many of you, I shunned the idea of installing one of those expensive "marine" a/c-d/c refrigerators when it came time to replace my old under-counter a/c-only reefer, especially after I had the "pleasure" of dealing with a friend's Norcold whose inverter section had gone south. I found a Marvel under-counter unit that includes an icemaker - not an easy thing to find I found. Some years ago, I installed an 800-watt inverter from Pro-Watt and ran the reefer off the main engine alternators while running, quickly turning it off or turning on the generator in order to prevent starter battery depletion (had no house bank then). This year I got smarter and added a house bank, but I noted the Marvel (which apparently has a rather small compressor unit) seemed to have an almost 100% duty cycle (it ran constantly). So now my house bank was getting depleted a lot faster than I had intended. While in the midst of a visit from the reefer repairman to replace the icemaker motor unit, I suggested to him that I'd like to give the unit some help in the air flow department. It sucks its condenser fin and compressor cooling air from a small vent in the cabinetry in the main cabin and discharges the heated air back into the main cabin from under itself. I also figured that I did not need that hot air competing with the air conditioner - remember, I'm in Florida. I ended up rigging a small appliance fan (110 VAC) to the connections for the reefer's integral fan so it would come on and shut off when the reefer compressor and integral fan did likewise. This new fan is mounted in a short piece of six inch diameter vent tube to give it added boost. This rig in turn is mounted in a box behind the reefer in line with the compressor and sucks air from under the front of the reefer across the compressor and into the box. I mounted two 4-inch diameter clothes dryer outlet flappers in the back wall of the box which has the engine room on its other side. I figured the main engines would provide additional suction through these flappers while underway, but they don't even cause the flaps to open - good, no additional heat/noise in the cabin. At worst, I figured the heat budget in the main cabin would be reduced with this arrangement, and the small additional a/c fan wouldn't add significant strain on the house bank when the mains and generator are shut down. First test went well with the reefer duty cycle reduced greatly from 100% (not sure yet how much yet) and ice being made with the thermostat set to the highest temperature setting. I suppose that putting in some sort of switching device between the reefer circuitry and the additional fan whereby 12 volt d/c power could be switched on for a strictly d/c fan motor would have been more efficient than converting the battery power for an a/c fan via the inverter, but I wanted a substantial air flow; so I did it this way. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB-42-295) Southport, FL From moana@xsw.com Mon Jun 18 08:01:34 2001 From: moana@xsw.com (Charles Vollum) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 02:01:34 -1000 Subject: TWL: Boojum is wet again! Message-ID: Hi gang, Boojum is back in the water again for further sea trials at Q-West in Wanganui, NZ. There are some pictures on the web at http://xsw.com/boojum/construction/c20010617 Still no word on final shipping schedule. Cheers, Charles -- Charles Vollum http://xsw.com/boojum - trailerable ocean-going tugboat From mikem@yachtsdelivered.com Mon Jun 18 07:12:45 2001 From: mikem@yachtsdelivered.com (Michael Maurice) Date: 18 Jun 2001 07:12:45 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fwd: Capt Mike's Back Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010618071158.00aaac50@yachtsdelivered.com> > >The 120' footer I went to pick up in the Carib and take to Seattle is >sitting in So. Florida. This little journey of about a thousand miles only >took 5 weeks. And therin lies a tale of frustration, breakdown, expense >and near disaster. >For those of you armchair sailors who relish the misfortunes of others, >sit back and enjoy. > >The boat was in St. Maarten, the Dutch West Indies. Bought by my client >,as is where is.Most of the yachts at St. Maarten anchor or tie up inside >the Lagoon, which is entered and exited thru a bridge 40 feet wide. These >big yachts are typically 25 to 30 feet wide. The current runs in the gap >at an impressive rate, up to 5 knots at times. And most of the time the >wind blows 10-25 crosswise. I spent 3 weeks watching the other guys do >this little trick and it pays to learn for on several occassions I got to >see them back down, emergency style. I don't know where I got the notion, >but I kept wondering if I too could make a mess of things and actually >take out the bridge! > >Within 2 days of taking over the boat I declared it unfit to leave the >dock and the rest of the time we spent, prepping it to go to sea. The >entire battery system was replaced, the bats flown in from the states, >without acid. There went a thousand bucks for the freight. One of the >bilge pumps was pumping outside in. The radios did not work. The bilge >piping system had to be partially replaced and the bow thruster was out of >commision. The list was almost endless. BTW did I mention that the guy who >did the survey was a close friend of the former captain. Talk about a bad >deal there. You can see why I am being vague about the names of the guilty. > >When we finally left, we had 15 minutes to practice operating the boat >before taking it thru the bridge. This with no one aboard who had ever >operated the boat. I told the crew I had no problem with lining up the >slot, I was just concerned about a breakdown in the last 100 feet or so >and reducing the bridge to rubble, due to our inability to back down or >maintain control. Well, we made it thru without a single mistake. On the >other hand that was about the last piece of good luck we had. > >Before we left, the decision had been made to take the boat to Florida, >instead of Seattle. On the way to San Juan, Puerto Rico the stb. >transmission lost all it's fluid. And on the way out of San Juan the >steering system failed. So back to San Juan and spend a week fixing the >steering. Then one of the generators failed. Finally on our way to Florida. > >On the way to Florida, one engine kept overheating and by the time we >reached Florida the stb. transmission had locked itself in forward. Docked >on one engine with no bow thruster. The next day, using a small boat to >asssist we tried to move the boat to a new stall and the air controls >failed just as we were about to redock and it was touch and go to keep >from taking out several big fancy yachts. > >There is a very long story behind all this. ANd I don't have time for it >just now. >Maybe later. >Regards, > Capt. Mike Maurice Near Portland Oregon. From mikem@yachtsdelivered.com Mon Jun 18 07:13:44 2001 From: mikem@yachtsdelivered.com (Michael Maurice) Date: 18 Jun 2001 07:13:44 -0400 Subject: TWL: Fwd: Bar Crossings Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010618071318.00a9f390@yachtsdelivered.com> >There is an article about bar crossings posted on the Trawler World web site. >I have some serious disagreement with some of the points made in the >article. I don't have time to go over the article with a fine tooth comb, >but I will spell out my concerns briefly. > >I strongly disagree with the notion of staying at least 10 miles off. I >have written many times that light weight (not heavily built) boats should >stay close to the coast when transiting. Especially if running against the >wind. Sailboats, especially those without engines should stay offshore, >but for anyone else if they are not an expert should stay close in. 3 to 5 >miles, less if the wind is blowing hard against you. >The places to be real careful close in on the US West Coast are near, Cape >Alava, Cape Blanco, Rogue Reef, St. George Reef, Cape Mendicino, Pt. Arena >and Pt. Sur. >This requires having charts and watching where you are, but safety is >closer by. There is no argument that will change my mind about this. > >The remarks about rain storms creating stronger ebbs is technically >correct. But if it has been storming, most people would not be offshore >anyway. The ebb is a bad time to cross in any event and on the shallow >bars and maybe even the deep ones the best time cross is in the last 1or 2 >hours of the flood, maybe even the last few minutes if it is real rough >and high swell. If you need more time to cross before the flood ends then >by all means start earlier. > >As for night bar crossings. Don't be stupid. If the conditions are riight >at night and won't be later when it is light then cross at night. If you >have safety concerns, call the Coast Guard and ask for an escort. In the >Oregon and Washington they are eager to be of help before you have an accident. > >As for the accident at La Push Washington. The sailboat in question was >never on the bar. It rolled in the open ocean in about 90 feet of water >about 2 miles from the entrance. It was lost on the rocks about one mile >south of the entrance about 2 hours after the rollover. The crew was taken >off by helo. The operator of the CG boat was Dave Bosley,. a friend of >mine. He was killed, as were 2 others. The sailboat should have been >further offshore. Then again it should not have been out at all, maybe? > >If anyone wants to hear more about this accident, I have the entire 500 >page accident report. I have read it from cover to cover. You can read my >conclusions, which were in an article in Sea Magazine, "Troubled Waters". >November 98. > > >You can take my comments for what they are worth. I have more experience >at this than the >author and can back this up with details. >Regards, Capt. Mike Maurice Near Portland Oregon. From jcj@chattanooga.net Mon Jun 18 11:29:38 2001 From: jcj@chattanooga.net (Courtenay James) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:29:38 -0400 Subject: TWL: Onan heat exchanger problem Message-ID: <3B2E1E5F.73EA3AC6@chattanooga.net> I am looking for a little troubleshooting help. My Onan 8kw genset is releasing exhaust fumes in the engine room (at least I think they are exhaust fumes). The exhaust hoses and the wet muffler all seem to be in good condition with no visible wear or leak. The Kubota diesel has started using antifreeze and there is evidence of moisture in the pan under the heat exchanger. Unfortunately it is positioned so that I can only examine it by way of a hand mirror, and I can't see any external problem. There is no visible evidence of water in the oil. My conclusion is that I probably have an internal and external leak in the heat exchanger (evidenced by the loss of coolant). Can the light smoke I see in the engine room come from this problem as well? I don't understand how exhaust fumes could be leaking from a bad heat exchanger. The light smoke isn't steam, and gives me one hell of a headache. Any helpful hints? Courtenay James BLUE SHAMU, Fisher 46 Motorsailer, Chattanooga, TN From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Mon Jun 18 11:54:00 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:54:00 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Helping the Refrigerator/Cooling the People Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe if you reduced the size of the hose, you could get away with a smaller 12V muffin fan, reducing even further the draw on the house bank. I think that you want rapidly moving air, rather than a big lump of slower moving air. Also. I'd be careful that the vent into the engine room wasn't acting like a chimney for engine room heat and gases. I bet it makes it easier to holler for a cold beer to be brought down! It's smart thinking, though. I've often wondered why folks that live in freezing climates don't use a vent to the outside to cool down their reefer. Now if you can figure a way to use some excess heat to warm the part that circulates the freon, you'll really be in fat city! ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From hal@halwyman.com Mon Jun 18 12:03:06 2001 From: hal@halwyman.com (Hal Wyman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:03:06 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010614185408.007ab540@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > =============================================================== > I've got a better saying for you Georgs. "If you cant predict > the weather, and its blowing like stink your better off tied to a dock or > in a calm anchorage". From your own description you were taking > punishment. > Why? Were you on a tight schedule or do you get your jollies this > way. I've > been caught in weather like that but you'll never see me go out into it > with my eyes wide open. I think most of us are involved in > PLEASURE BOATING. > . > As others have pointed out, if you plan to go out in the ocean in a yacht, you had better be prepared for gales and worse. But aren't you the fellow who kind of poo-poo'ed the idea of any of us trawler types spending time in the open ocean in the first place? Hal From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jun 18 12:05:55 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:05:55 -0700 Subject: TWL: Oil change interval Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F54@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Relative to the recent discussion on oil type and oil change interval, I asked my friend at Alaska Diesel Electric (Lugger/Northern Lights) if changing oil using an oil analysis was preferable to changing oil using a set number of hours. Here is his reply, for anyone interested: " It is possible to extend the normal oil change interval but the only safe way to do so is with a continuous oil analysis program. This is somewhat expensive as each analysis may cost as much as $ 30.00. The current oil change interval for new engines that we sell is 250 Hr. We have some tug boat operators using 500 Hr. This is probably OK since they use their engines continuously which is good for the engine and the oil. The "timed" oil change interval is based on some average operating conditions and works well for most of us. Oil is not very expensive and clean oil is a wonderful thing for the engine's insides." ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From jalexander@ticz.com Mon Jun 18 11:13:39 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:13:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: Onan heat exchanger problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010618111339.007a97d0@pop.ticz.com> I had a very similar occurance with my Entec 4.2 KW genset a couple of years ago. ie, Loss of coolant, "light smoke" in the engine compartment, etc. My problem turned out to be one of failure of the coolant and raw water pump impellers in a Johnson two-stage pump, even thought they were new impellers (another story). The actual problem was a badly overheated Gen Set and the Light smoke that appeared to maybe be exhaust actually turned out to be the initial stages of the paint on the genset starting to burn off. I would suggest that you have an overheating Generator and that while your cause may be different than my experience and you can't figure it our yourself right away that you get a qualified tech to look at it before you run it anymore or serious damage may occur. By the way, the Entec that I had did not have a temperature guage but did have heat sensors in place that were supposed to shut it down if it overheated. Like the old "idiot lights" in cars, it didn't shut the unit down until well after the problem appeared and just before meltdown, way too late in my opinion! Jim Alexander From pkoch@dtex.com Mon Jun 18 12:20:01 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:20:01 -0400 Subject: TWL: portlight gasket removal Message-ID: I want to replace the gasket material in my opening portlights. When trying to remove the gasket from one of the portlights it seemed impossible to get all of the old gasket out. I could use the advise of those who have successfully accomplished this task. thank you Paul mv Serendipity New Jersey From Awgertoo@aol.com Mon Jun 18 12:35:11 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:35:11 EDT Subject: TWL: Onan heat exchanger problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/18/01 11:31:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jcj@chattanooga.net writes: << am looking for a little troubleshooting help. My Onan 8kw genset is releasing exhaust fumes in the engine room (at least I think they are exhaust fumes). The exhaust hoses and the wet muffler all seem to be in good condition with no visible wear or leak. The Kubota diesel has started using antifreeze and there is evidence of moisture in the pan under the heat exchanger. Unfortunately it is positioned so that I can only examine it by way of a hand mirror, and I can't see any external problem. There is no visible evidence of water in the oil. My conclusion is that I probably have an internal and external leak in the heat exchanger (evidenced by the loss of coolant). Can the light smoke I see in the engine room come from this problem as well? I don't understand how exhaust fumes could be leaking from a bad heat exchanger. The light smoke isn't steam, and gives me one hell of a headache. Any helpful hints? Courtenay James BLUE SHAMU, Fisher 46 Motorsailer, Chattanooga, TN >> Courtenay-- I had the same thing a few years ago on my Onan MDF (15 KW) set. Look at your exhaust elbow between the engine and the water injection point. If all you are blowing is exhaust fumes and you are not discharging raw water into the bilge then it must be a corroded elbow or some part in the dry section of the exhaust. The reason you're getting headaches is because you're breathing carbon monoxide--not recommended for growing boys! Best--Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Mon Jun 18 12:43:16 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:43:16 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Helping the Refrigerator/Cooling the People Space Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34060@BCMAIL1> Rich Gano has an excellent idea. For those people who would prefer a 12 volt fan, I would suggest going to a computer surplus equipment shop. The normal power supply in almost any desktop computer uses 12V DC fans. These fans only cost a few $$ surplus and not much more new. In addition, the new pentium computers use small fans mounted right on top of the main processor chip. They only measure 11/4" X 11/4" I have used these tiny fans for cooling halogen lights in valences etc. Since I live in a motorhome powered mainly by DC lights and appliances, I face the same problems as living on a boat. I have used surplus fans for moving air from one end to the other to avoid hot and cold spots. Virtually noiseless, these small fans draw on average 0.1 amps each. My old Norcold fridge still works but has much less room compared to a normal apartment fridge. Next project will be to replace it with a 120V AC fridge. For DC operation I too will use a Prowatt inverter. Someone from this list reported that they measured less DC current draw on their Norcold when running on their Prowatt inverter compared to the Norcold DC circuit. They used a Link 10 to measure the power consumption, so that should be a fairly accurate measure of relative efficiency. Cheers Arild -----Original Message----- From: Rich Gano [mailto:rgano@mantech-pc.com] Subject: TWL: Helping the Refrigerator/Cooling the People Space Well, here's a new topic that can get us off the dreary AGM battery tirades. << snip>> I ended up rigging a small appliance fan (110 VAC) to the connections for the reefer's integral fan so it would come on and shut off when the reefer compressor and integral fan did likewise. << snip>> First test went well with the reefer duty cycle reduced greatly from 100% (not sure yet how much yet) and ice being made with the thermostat set to the highest temperature setting. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From yourcaptain@earthlink.net Mon Jun 18 13:11:39 2001 From: yourcaptain@earthlink.net (Captain Al Pilvinis) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:11:39 -0400 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010618131139.007b8ac0@earthlink.net> >As others have pointed out, if you plan to go out in the ocean in a yacht, >you had better be prepared for gales and worse. > >But aren't you the fellow who kind of poo-poo'ed the idea of any of us >trawler types spending time in the open ocean in the first place? > >Hal =========================================================== I will say it again Hal very- very few of us are planning on crossing oceans. And of those planning, most are dreamers. When are you setting off on your circumnavigation????????????? . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain From psnorth@mediaone.net Mon Jun 18 13:20:23 2001 From: psnorth@mediaone.net (psnorth) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:20:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Bedding Acrylic etc In-Reply-To: <000701c0f5d8$2cfd1b20$19fd4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Message-ID: << I aslo agree that 1/32 of inch clearance in the screw hole is usually enough - if the windows are not subject to extemes of temperature - from Freeze Dried to Deep Fried -- If that is the case however - I would use just a bit more .>> I have to echo the comments about "freeze dried" especially around the windows. I learned from painful experience that I need to leave space all around the window even if it means getting extra help to install it. I replaced my Krogen salon window last fall and used a few 1" long 1/8" thick spacers along the bottom. I also made sure I used a sealant that should have been somewhat elastic (West Marine). I was quite proud of the completed work. Unfortunately, I went down to the boat one cold New England day in February (shrinkwrapped and in the water) and discovered a diagonal crack all the way across the window. I had a few choice words to say at the time but have not replaced the double thick glass as yet. However, when I do there will be space all around that thing. Peter North Salty Dog KK42 #52 -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of M. Kenneth McQuage Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 4:17 PM To: TWL; Thataway@aol.com Subject: TWL: Re: Bedding Acrylic etc Hi Bob, I agree some of the structural stuff is pretty good - but not readily available from general suppliers - unless sought out from speciality supply house - and even then you kinda got to be in the know to get the right one ..( even what you got from the plastics supplier was not the ' right stuff ' )----. at least one of the high tech Silicons -developed for the Space program is even electrically conductive - I have never been able to afford a tube of that stuff even to play with ! Sounds like you used the equal of 5200 for plastics - hope that you do not ever have to replace those windows again due to mishap -- could be a devil of a job .. I aslo agree that 1/32 of inch clearance in the screw hole is usually enough - if the windows are not subject to extemes of temperature - from Freeze Dried to Deep Fried -- If that is the case however - I would use just a bit more .. All the Best Ken From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Mon Jun 18 14:05:41 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:05:41 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Helping the Refrigerator/Cooling the People Space In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34060@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010618134546.009fe930@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> Having had several of these fans seize up and need to be replaced in my computers and other equipment over the years, I would only add: 1) I would not buy a used fan. Fans have a limited (but long) life span -- particularly in a dusty environment which describes the inside of most electrical equipment with much age on it. The sleeve bearing type fans seem to seize up the quickest, which brings me to.... 2) I gave up buying sleeve bearing fans. If you look you can generally find the little muffin fans these guys are talking about with ball bearings instead. It's well worth the extra 50 cents or whatever that they cost IMHO. If the fan doesn't say what kind of bearing it has, then it's generally a sleeve bearing since they're cheaper. I bought my last fan readily from somewhere on the web. In San Jose I could always find both kinds easily over the counter somewhere, but in the Tampa area it seems to be a little harder to find ball bearings. Your mileage may vary.... On the general issue of adding ventilation to a fridge like Rich has done, let me add a little anecdotal support. The previous owners of my boat told me that they had three different Norcolds installed and fail within a couple of years. Dealer installation and repair, and always under warranty to their credit. When the final one was installed the owners cut a lot of extra ventilation into the cabinetry beyond what Norcold said was required, and added a fan and never had another problem in the several years following that they kept the boat. It's still running well. Bill -------------------------- At 09:43 AM 6/18/01 -0700, Arild Jensen wrote: >Rich Gano has an excellent idea. >For those people who would prefer a 12 volt fan, I would suggest going to a >computer surplus equipment shop. The normal power supply in almost any >desktop computer uses 12V DC fans. These fans only cost a few $$ surplus >and not much more new. From adam@nordhavn.com Mon Jun 18 14:55:11 2001 From: adam@nordhavn.com (Adam Cultraro) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:55:11 -0700 Subject: TWL: Nordhavn 40 numbers - from Jim Leishman Message-ID: To all listees, Here are Jim Leishman's numbers for the Nordhavn 40 that were talked about earlier. The top set are from the original tank testing conducted at BC research, while the bottom set are the actual figures based on the completed boat . Enjoy, Adam Cultraro Pacific Asian Enterprises / Lemest Yacht Sales Nordhavn manufacturer 949-496-4933 adam@nordhavn.com NORDHAVN 40 PERFORMANCE INFORMATION - FIRST BASED UPON BC RESEARCH TANK TESTING AND THEN ADJUSTED UPWARD FOR AN INCREASE IN DISPLACEMENT Predictions developed by BC research and vessel tested at a displacement of 40,000 lbs As fuel is consumed - displacement will be reduced and efficiency will increase however other factors must be considered. Predictions assume 50% propeller efficiency however do not take into account stabilizer drag, optional hull appendage drag nor is any generator run time or reserve calculated. Assumed fuel load - 920 gallons -- 100% usable Speed SL SHP P-P-HP GPH RPM RANGE MPG 6 1.01 14.2 0.395 0.78 1,100 7,037 7.65 7.01 1.18 26.8 0.392 1.47 1,250 4,374 4.75 8 1.34 57.0 0.390 3.12 1,800 2,362 2.57 8.49 1.43 85.5 0.386 4.63 2,075 1,688 1.83 *9.01 1.51 *129.5 0.385 6.99 2,400 1,186 1.29 SL Speed Length Ratio SHP Shaft Horsepower required P-P- HP Pounds of fuel per horsepower at given RPM and HP output- Lugger specifications RPM Engine revolutions per minute Range In nautical miles - no reserve Note: Above predictions corrected for the following conditions: Full load displacement can be as high as 50,000 lbs Stabilizers - Active fin and Paravanes, Bow Thruster and Wing Engine Propeller can add up to a significant drag penalty - Particullarly at low speed length ratios Speed SL SHP P-P-HP GPH RPM RANGE MPG 6 1.01 17.7 0.395 0.98 1200 5,629 6.12 7.01 1.18 33.52 0.392 1.84 1500 3,499 3.80 8 1.34 71.2 0.390 3.89 1900 1,890 2.05 8.49 1.43 106.85 0.386 5.78 2200 1,350 1.47 *9.01 * 1.51 *161.85 0.385 8.74 Note: Engine is rated at a continuous rating of 101 SHP at 21200 RPM so maximum cruising speed is limited to about 8.5 knots - Asterisk indicates that HP and Speed are not attainable From adam@nordhavn.com Mon Jun 18 14:58:50 2001 From: adam@nordhavn.com (Adam Cultraro) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:58:50 -0700 Subject: TWL: Nordhavn 40 numbers - again Message-ID: Listees, those numbers look funny when they get posted, and I apologize. I can e-mail the original word document to anyone who cares or is interested. Thanks, Adam Cultraro Pacific Asian Enterprises / Lemest Yacht Sales Nordhavn manufacturer 949-496-4933 adam@nordhavn.com From ftimpano@infi.net Mon Jun 18 17:23:58 2001 From: ftimpano@infi.net (ftimpano@infi.net) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:23:58 -0400 Subject: TWL: Onan heat exchanger problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll add to this scenario-the exhaust fumes that are vented to the engine room are then circulated by the generator, causing it to overheat quickly, with a loss of coolant to follow. The unit then shuts down from lack of Oxygen unless you have good (positive) engine room ventilation. My 7.5kw MDJE did the same thing....replaced the elbow and the problem was fixed. Frank Awgertoo@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/18/01 11:31:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jcj@chattanooga.net writes: > Courtenay-- I had the same thing a few years ago on my Onan MDF (15 KW) set. Look at your exhaust elbow between the engine and the water injection point. If all you are blowing is exhaust fumes and you are not discharging raw water into the bilge then it must be a corroded elbow or some part in the dry section of the exhaust. The reason you're getting headaches is because you're breathing carbon monoxide--not recommended for growing boys! Best--Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From schooleymike@pe.net Mon Jun 18 05:43:55 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 02:43:55 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Batteries In-Reply-To: <3B2C8352.51D201DF@pe.net> Message-ID: Bob Austin wrote: One article I read states that the AGM batteries should not be charged in an ambient temperature of greater than 120 degrees F (this is an RV source). Thus you should place your batteries in an environment where the temp does not reach 120 degrees---I can assure you that my engine room exceeds 120 degrees often--even sitting at the dock on occasion. Arild comments: I have often had RV'ers complain about thermal runaway conditions while charging batteries in the southern deserts. Apparently, it isn't uncommon to see 150F close to the desert floor in the afternoon. Even 3 feet above the desert floor you still see temperatures above 130F Boats by comparison are much cooler. What I don't understand is why not try water cooling. We use water cooling for our engines, A/C some fridge's and compressors etc. So why not run water over the battery cases as a way to carry away excess heat. Bob and Arild have raised in interesting and complex topic. Please bare with me while I try and provide a little background on this subject. The term "Thermal Run-away" was first applied to NiCd batteries. Thermal run-away occurs when batteries are charged at constant voltage and at elevated temperatures. In NiCd's, as with most batteries, the electrical resistance drops as the internal temperature increases, allowing an increase in current, which in turn produces additional heat. If the heat can not be dissipated faster than it is produced a thermal run-away occurs. In NiCd's, thermal run-away causes the material separating the plates to melt creating a short and even faster heating. Thermal run-away is always catastrophic to the battery, but in large NiCd's it can also result in a fire or, in extreme cases, explosions. Valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries are more sensitive to thermal run-away than flooded lead acid batteries because of the additional heat produced when recombining hydrogen and oxygen gasses. However in VRLA batteries thermal run-away is less disastrous. In a VRLA battery the temperature increases until the electrolyte boils and is released as steam. This increases the electrical resistance between the plates and reduces the charger current. The battery then cools naturally and becomes a worthless hunk of junk. Concorde provides an excellent discussion of the subject at http://www.concordebattery.com/products/technical_info/thermal_runaway.htm just mentally convert "aircraft" to "trawler" as you read it:-)>. The cure for thermal run-away is to only use temperature compensated charger which actually measure the temperature of the battery, preferable on the battery post, to get a better measure of the internal temperature. Another side effect of thermal run-away is that in the early stages, hydrogen and oxygen gas is produced faster than it can be recombined, resulting in venting or gassing. This consumes electrolyte, reduces the useful life of the battery and, if the battery isn't properly vented, can create an explosion hazard. This prompted the United States Coast Guard to issue a warning in Boating Safety Circular number 78 in August 1996 http://www.uscgboating.org/reg/reg_bsc78.asp (look at the last article). For those interested in a more in-depth discussion on thermal run-away, including all the possible causes and cures, please refer to; http://www.dynastybattery.com/cd_dyn/contact/tech_support/7944.htm Now to response to Bob's comment: It is true that the charger current should be reduced as temperature increases for all lead acid batteries. For AGM lifeline batteries, Concorde recommends cutting the charger off completely at 140F. If you need to charge or discharge when your batteries are above 120F, I would recommend using flooded batteries and taking the proper precautions. You should also note that operating all lead acid batteries at elevated temperature reduces cycle life due to the lead corrosion process in which lead (Pb) is transformed into lead dioxide (PbO2). The corrosion rate increases with temperature (doubling approximately every 10?C or 19?F), float voltage and acid concentration. The corrosion product, lead dioxide, requires 37% more volume than lead. This volume expansion induces mechanical forces in the grid which will become deformed and stretched. This deformation is called growth and reduces the contact of the current collector (grid) with the active material with an associated capacity reduction. At a growth level of 4-7%, the grid fractures. If your batteries are operating at > 120?F, I think you could significantly increase your battery life by reducing their operating temperature. Another helpful hint is to make sure that you have at least 1/2" clearance between the batteries in your bank. This allows the internally generated heat to dissipate better. When you have a tight cluster of batteries the cells in the center experience significantly higher temperatures than those on the outside (the center Eskimo syndrome) causing those cells to die prematurely and take the entire battery with it. Now to respond to Arild's comments: This is a good idea for people that operate in hot climates, although submerging the batteries in a water bath seams problematic on a boat. What about liquid cooling the bottom/sides on the battery box or blowing air through a liquid to air heat exchanger (radiator) and then through the battery box? P.S. I promise to stop talking about batteries for awhile. Sincerely; Mike Schooley Future Trailerable Trawler owner From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Mon Jun 18 17:59:45 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: norcold frig In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010618071158.00aaac50@yachtsdelivered.com> Message-ID: <20010618215945.36954.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Seeing the norcold post promts me to post the trouble Im having with my norcold. It actually works pretty well, generally. On shore power, it chills great. When my engine is running and off shore power, chills great also. When engine not running and when off shore power, Id be better off keepign things in the ocean, as it would be colder. Note I do not know as to what RPM it actually chills at. Not sure if it would work on idle or just above or not or what. Had way more on my mind than that. Is this pretty typical for norcold? Im thinking bad wire, but then why would it run well when the engine is on? Feels like its not getting enough power to the unit. But my battery banks are new and have plenty juice. ?? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Mon Jun 18 18:39:18 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: norcold frig In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010618071158.00aaac50@yachtsdelivered.com> Message-ID: <20010618223918.35988.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.norcold.com/recalls.cfm Important for norcold owners if you own a gas/elecric model. Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From alexjodi@hotmail.com Mon Jun 18 19:42:55 2001 From: alexjodi@hotmail.com (alex findlay) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:42:55 -0000 Subject: TWL: refinancing your boat Message-ID:
My wife and I interested in refinancing our current boat loan. Does anyone know of any good lenders that will refinance away from another bank without any penalties, points, etc?
thanks so much in advance
alex and jodi
"positive attitude"
kk42

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From rcrogers@annapolis.net Mon Jun 18 21:21:23 2001 From: rcrogers@annapolis.net (Ron Rogers) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:21:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: norcold frig In-Reply-To: <20010618215945.36954.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c0f85e$328dec30$0b64a8c0@rcrogers5> What gauge wiring are you using for your DC connection and how long is the run? Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD ----- Original Message ----- >On shore power, it chills great. When > my engine is running and off shore power, chills great > also. When engine not running and when off shore > power, Id be better off keepign things in the ocean, > as it would be colder. >Im thinking bad wire, but then why would it run well when the engine > is on? Feels like its not getting enough power to the > unit. But my battery banks are new and have plenty > juice. ?? > > Dan > 37 Roughwater > "Wen I Dream" > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. > http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From Gregg.McKay@telus.net Mon Jun 18 22:44:24 2001 From: Gregg.McKay@telus.net (Gregg.McKay@telus.net) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:44:24 -0700 Subject: TWL: tolly 37 Message-ID: <3B2EBC88.2D5078F3@telus.net> Well, our "boatless" phase didn't last very long. We sold our 36' Chris Craft June 5 to someone who only saw it for the first time the day before. He paid us in full less than 24 hours after he saw it. All deals should be like this. (This was after 5 months and 2 failed deals due to financing). Yesterday our offer was accepted on a 1974 37' Tollycraft sedan with twin Cat 3160's. I don't know much about the Cats except that they are the forerunner to the 3208s. They are naturally aspirated and put out 210 hp at 2800 rpm and they have 2800 hours on them. The Survey & engine survey will be next Monday. In the meantime does anyone else have either this boat or these engines?? Any opinions/information is appreciated. Gregg McKay From fburrows@mail.com Mon Jun 18 23:22:06 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:22:06 -0400 Subject: TWL: Batteries In-Reply-To: <3B2C7E9F.25671145@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010618231744.01ef8a60@pop.site1.csi.com> You may want to wait a couple of years before making any big electrical change decisions. The automobile industry is heading toward a new 42 volt electrical system standard. The battery will be a 36 volt but I guess since it will be operating at around 42 volts it picked up that name. Since this is where the current 12 volt standard came from I guess it will eventually filter down to boats. This link describes all the possibilities: http://www.delphiauto.com/pdf/DE99E100.pdf Frank Burrows 1979 43' Viking MY Piney Narrows Marina Chesapeake Bay From Nunas@pacific.net.sg Tue Jun 19 04:27:22 2001 From: Nunas@pacific.net.sg (AKAMA) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:27:22 +0800 Subject: TWL: RE: Oil change interval In-Reply-To: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F54@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: Most people only extend drain intervals by using by-pass filtration. I can't think of any good reason to use an oil analyzer alone in an attempt to extend drain intervals. N Indeed, most of the discussions on the list have had this precept. Best, M Maurice & Louise-Ann Nunas KK 48 Whaleback #2 Ponggol Marina, Singapore -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Faure, Marin Sent: 19 June 2001 12:06 AM To: 'Trawler World Mail List' Subject: TWL: Oil change interval Relative to the recent discussion on oil type and oil change interval, I asked my friend at Alaska Diesel Electric (Lugger/Northern Lights) if changing oil using an oil analysis was preferable to changing oil using a set number of hours. Here is his reply, for anyone interested: " It is possible to extend the normal oil change interval but the only safe way to do so is with a continuous oil analysis program. This is somewhat expensive as each analysis may cost as much as $ 30.00. The current oil change interval for new engines that we sell is 250 Hr. We have some tug boat operators using 500 Hr. This is probably OK since they use their engines continuously which is good for the engine and the oil. The "timed" oil change interval is based on some average operating conditions and works well for most of us. Oil is not very expensive and clean oil is a wonderful thing for the engine's insides." ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From moana@xsw.com Tue Jun 19 06:00:57 2001 From: moana@xsw.com (Charles Vollum) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:00:57 -1000 Subject: TWL: Boojum sea trials report Message-ID: Hi guys, I had a nice chat with Colin at Q-West today. They have now had Boojum in the water three times for trials. He says that she is sailing very nicely, with a top speed of 6.5 kts exactly as predicted, and with a very quiet and comfortable cruise of 5.5 kts at about 1500 RPM. They are launching the boat each day on the marine railway, and storing her in the building shed for work and overnight. Tomorrow they will be testing the paravanes. Apparently the ground fault in the Wallas heater was finally isolated to the probe that ignites the burner, which jumps a spark to the metal case. They apparently drilled a hole and mounted a ceramic insulated return point for the spark to jump to which resolved the issue. It is pretty cold in Wanganui this time of the year, and he says the heater has been getting a good workout, and is doing a fine job. The autopilot is working well, and the emergency steering system and backup tiller pilot have also been tested and seem to be working fine. Colin is worried that we won't be able to fully load the engine at lower RPMs. The CP prop cannot develop enough pitch to "overprop" the engine, ie, at full pitch, the engine will still run all the way to its 1900 RPM redline. This is with the pitch actuator pushed all the way against it's stop. I'm not sure if this is a problem or not (and I'm not sure what can be done about it anyway.) It now appears very unlikely that we will be able to have Boojum in San Francisco for the Passagemaking Symposium, which is really too bad. We need the time to do the proper testing before shipping back to the USA. There is a containership sailing on July 7th arriving Port Richmond on the 22nd (just a bit too late, and much more expensive than the bulk break sailing July 20th.) We are still investigating sailings to Seattle departing around July 10th which would put Boojum in the water there in early August. Cheers, Charles -- Charles Vollum http://xsw.com/boojum - trailerable ocean-going tugboat From schooleymike@pe.net Mon Jun 18 23:06:38 2001 From: schooleymike@pe.net (Michael Schooley) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:06:38 -0700 Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery Message-ID: Here is a problem to challenge your mind and maybe improve your boat (and get off the subject of batteries :-). Typical internal combustion engines are about 33% efficient at converting chemical energy into mechanical energy. 1/2 of the energy is lost to the exhaust and the remainder goes into the water jacket. Given the availability of all this waste heat while the engine is running, can anyone think of a waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? Inquisitively yours; Mike Schooley Trailerable Trawler wannabe From mikem@yachtsdelivered.com Tue Jun 19 08:05:21 2001 From: mikem@yachtsdelivered.com (Michael Maurice) Date: 19 Jun 2001 08:05:21 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: LaPush In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010619074119.00a7e6d0@mail> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010619080223.02a4a350@yachtsdelivered.com> At 07:42 AM 6/19/01 -0700, you wrote: >Capt. Mike, >I would dearly love to read the LaPush report. How do you suggest I get it? >Mel Mel, I don't know. The 500 page accident report has a date of 19 March 1997. It has number at the top 5830. From Commander, 13th CG District. Capt. Mike Maurice Near Portland Oregon. From rgano@mantech-pc.com Tue Jun 19 07:05:33 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:05:33 -0000 Subject: TWL: RE: Helping the Refrigerator/Cooling the People Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From Doug Barnard, "Also. I'd be careful that the vent into the engine room wasn't acting like a chimney for engine room heat and gases. I bet it makes it easier to holler for a cold beer to be brought down!" Well, actually, the dryer flapper vents on the engine room bulkhead downstream of the fan are only one-way. If the blower motor is not going, they are shut to any pressure from the engine room. The engine room COULD suck air across the reefer compressor, but I ran the engines up to cruise RPM and saw no action on the flappers at all. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin' From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Tue Jun 19 12:40:55 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:40:55 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Waste Heat Recovery Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34078@BCMAIL1> Yes! A European company is offering a Stirling cycle engine that drives a genset. Unfortunately the price is somewhat steep. At this time it probably isn't cost effective but certainly improves the overall efficiency of converting diesel fuel to other useful forms of energy. Arild -----Original Message----- From: Michael Schooley [mailto:schooleymike@pe.net] Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery Here is a problem to challenge your mind and maybe improve your boat <<< snip>> Given the availabilityof all this waste heat while the engine is running, can anyone think of a waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? Mike Schooley --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From rgano@mantech-pc.com Tue Jun 19 07:47:00 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:47:00 -0000 Subject: TWL: Onan heat exchanger problem Message-ID: Due to a split exhaust elbow, my 7.5 KW Onan started spitting exhaust AND seawater cooling into the bilge long time ago and set off my bilge alarm, warning me of the problem (get such and alarm, if you don't already have one). Shortly afterward, I installed a couple of carbon monoxide senor/alarms - how about you? Suggest you do same. As noted in another reply, you could have a split in the elbow at a point where seawater does not exit the piping but exhaust fumes DO. Also, AFTER you solve the exhaust-in-your-face problem, feel the tube from the seawater pump to the heat exchanger to see if it is cool when the unit is running. Then look into the expansion tank after the thermostat has opened to see if the fresh water coolant is being moved. This way you can tell if both pumps are working. Does the "moisture" under the heat exchanger contain antifreeze? If so, watch the fresh water/antifreeze coolant circulating pump for dripping as the unit runs, again, after you solve the exhaust fume problem. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin' From rgano@mantech-pc.com Tue Jun 19 08:07:06 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:07:06 -0000 Subject: TWL: Oil change interval Message-ID: I have been doing oil analysis on my 2 Lehman engines and ONAN generator ($15 a pop) at oil change intervals of six months for fifteen years. I don't get the opportunity to get 200 hours on them (manual-recommended interval of oil change) between most changes. Only on two occasions did reports come back recommending other than "Suitable for continued use." Once I had antifreeze in the generator's oil due to a blown head gasket (amazing how heavy a little ole two-cylinder engine's head can be). The other problem noted was diesel fuel dilution of a Lehman the source of which took me forever to locate at an injector. I always wonder if I should take the sample, await the report (assuming no usage that week), AND MAKE THE DECISION TO CONTINUE USING THE OIL, if that is the recommendation that comes back from the lab. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin' From AlorMaria@aol.com Tue Jun 19 13:22:06 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:22:06 EDT Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/19/01 11:02:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, schooleymike@pe.net writes: << can anyone think of a waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? >> Absorption refrigeration/air conditioning? Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From zeekstah@ktc.com Tue Jun 19 13:44:33 2001 From: zeekstah@ktc.com (Zeke Anderson) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:44:33 -0500 Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007d01c0f8e7$81345c00$3c7c913f@uwqbc> > In a message dated 6/19/01 11:02:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > schooleymike@pe.net writes: > > << can anyone think of a > waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? > >> > Why change a system that contributes to global warming, thereby creating more water for us to boat in :-? Zeke Anderson PT38 Texas Cookin' Rockport TX From jcw@rti.org Tue Jun 19 13:56:03 2001 From: jcw@rti.org (Wright, James C.) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:56:03 -0400 Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF07A55E@rtints5.rti.org> Find an (antique) Servel refrigerator and modify it to use the waste heat instead of a gas flame? -jim > In a message dated 6/19/01 11:02:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > schooleymike@pe.net writes: << can anyone think of a waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? >> > Absorption refrigeration/air conditioning? > Al Johnson From alexh@olypen.com Tue Jun 19 13:18:23 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:18:23 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Waste Heat Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007b01c0f8e9$0e708f20$18f9c8d0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schooley" To: "Trawler World List" Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 8:06 PM Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery > Given the availability > of all this waste heat while the engine is running, can anyone think of a > waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? Hi Mike, Of course, there are the obvious ones; Turbochargers convert waste exhaust heat into extra power. Waste coolant heat is routinely used to produce cabin heat and hot water. Waste heat can also be used to "power" a refrigeration system. This link goes to information about an exhaust gas system being developed for use with heavy trucks pulling refrigerated trailers. It would appear to be easily adaptable to the engines we are interested in here although I'm guessing that a dry stack exhaust would be required. http://es.epa.gov/ncerqa/progress/sbir/pollution/68d98131.html This link is for a system that uses waste coolant heat. It's apparently already available but only in sizes that are too large for us. OTOH: Such a system should be scaleable and the manufacturer claims that this system is more efficient than the exhaust gas system above. http://www.caddet-ee.org/nl_html/001_02.htm Waste heat is also routinely used for watermaking on large ships (often with an assist from excess vacuum). This link shows some systems built by Alfa Laval that are too large for our purposes. Again, systems such as these should be scaleable. http://www.ship-technology.com/contractors/desalination/alfa/ Wastefully yours, Alex From alexh@olypen.com Tue Jun 19 14:40:59 2001 From: alexh@olypen.com (Alex Hirsekorn) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:40:59 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Oil change interval In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009701c0f8f1$84438c40$18f9c8d0@gte.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "AKAMA" > Most people only extend drain intervals by using by-pass filtration. I > can't think of any good reason to use an oil analyzer alone in an attempt to > extend drain intervals. Howdy, I beg to differ. It's true that a bypass filter in conjunction with oil analysis is one way to extend drain intervals (in some cases indefinitely) it is neither the only method or, indeed, the most common method. The basic requirement is that you need to keep your engine filled with clean oil that contains sufficient additives. The easiest way to do that is to simply change oil according to the engine builder's recommendations. Most of the time, however, doing this means that you are changing oil too often for your actual needs. There's nothing wrong with that except that you're wasting a bit of time and money. The other way to do it is to analyze your oil on a periodic basis and change when the analysis tells you to. There are two advantages to this; First, you're not spending time and money on unnecessary oil changes. Second, you'll have a better idea of what's actually going on with your engine. This approach does have disadvantages (sort of) as well; You'll need to learn how to read and understand oil analysis results - Not difficult, but not a lot of fun for many of us. Oil analysis isn't free in term of money or time - You should be able to find a variety of sources that will charge you around US$15.00 per sample but you'll also need a way to obtain the sample. Further, it takes time to draw the sample and more time to review the results. Of course you probably should be doing some analysis even if you're changing oil often. As to the use of an oil analyzer I assume this refers to the "Portable Oil Analyzer" that many of us learned of through Captn Wil's posts. This is a neat little machine that seems to produce very useful information. OTOH: It's quite expensive to buy and the return on investment probably favors using a lab instead. OTOH: (Once again, I'm up to three hands) It might make sense to share the cost among friends or a yacht club membership. The POA would also make a lot of sense for someone who spends a lot of time away from easy mail services since oil samples are sent through the mail as are the results. Once you've got a program of oil analysis going then you can start looking at other methods of extending your service interval: 1. Bypass filtration: Keeping your oil squeaky clean not only eliminates abrasive crud but also allows the additive package to last longer (Check the archive - This has been discussed by Captn Wil, Paul Kruse, and myself). 2. Switching to a "super premium" or "extended drain interval " oil which, as the name implies, is formulated specifically to last longer (basically, more additives) Gotta go, my ride is here! Hurriedly yours, Alex From rickaustin@attglobal.net Tue Jun 19 15:42:22 2001 From: rickaustin@attglobal.net (Rick Austin) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:42:22 -0500 Subject: TWL: Manifold Cooking Message-ID: <004601c0f8f7$fd59b860$0201a8c0@ricksnote> Hi gang, Things have gotten pretty serious around here lately. It's time for a change of pace. We will be cruising in the Gulf Islands in a few weeks and my wife is working on the menu. One of her meal plans requires baked potatoes and she hates to heat the oven /run the generator except when absolutely necessary. She wondered if she could just put them in the engine room to cook. I advised her that if it was warm enough to cook potatoes in there, we might not be eating dinner that night because we would be too busy fighting the fire. OTOH, I have heard about cooking on the exhaust manifold of a car. A Google search on "exhaust manifold cooking" led me to the book, "Manifold Destiny: The One! the Only! Guide to Cooking on Your Car Engine" by Christopher Maynard, apparently a classic on the subject of meals on wheels. Hmmm! Does anybody have any experience with this "style" of cooking on a trawler? Recipe time conversions for: gasoline vs diesel? single vs twin? full vs semi-displacement? active vs passive stabilization? Rick Austin in Austin PS: Here's an article with recipes: http://www.winexwired.com/3point1/sg31.htm PPS: Georgs - this could be a new TrawlerFest seminar topic! From JWilkins@idahopower.com Tue Jun 19 15:47:55 2001 From: JWilkins@idahopower.com (Wilkins, Joel) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:47:55 -0600 Subject: TWL: Re:Oil Change Interval Message-ID: <143383BC8519BB4A88E639E8A80437F3FBF334@aspen.idahopower.com> Many large ships (US Navy anyway) use oil analysis (along with filtration) extensively to avoid changing oil and to spot problems before they become real problems. On regular intervals, samples are taken to be looked at for contamination (water usually) and stored for a period of time. On a less frequent but regular cycle, the samples are sent to a lab for analysis. The type of metal present (and there will be some) can give almost positive indication of what is wearing (either normally or abnormally). IMHO, even if one wishes to change oil "just to be sure it's clean", I would think it prudent to have oil analysed by a lab on a regular basis to spot trends. Joel Wilkins Still searching...but getting closer From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Tue Jun 19 16:21:24 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:21:24 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Manifold Cooking Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34087@BCMAIL1> Rick, I never had the chance to try this on a trawler but when I worked for a power utility we often cooked snacks on the bucket truck manifold. The motor had to run to power the hydraulic pump for the arm, so it was always on. Make sure you double or triple wrap the potatoes in foil. Nestle the potatoes in the spot where the manifold connects to the heads. Any other place is likely too cool since you have water jacketed manifolds. My guess, based on my own cooking time is you will need about three house for a baked potato to be done. Best check every hour until you develop your own time list. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Austin [mailto:rickaustin@attglobal.net] Subject: TWL: Manifold Cooking Hi gang, One of her meal plans requires baked potatoes and she wondered if she could just put them in the engine room to cook. OTOH, I have heard about cooking on the exhaust manifold of a car. Hmmm! Does anybody have any experience with this "style" of cooking on a trawler? Rick Austin in Austin --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From bsholar@yahoo.com Tue Jun 19 17:31:00 2001 From: bsholar@yahoo.com (Bill Sholar) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:31:00 -0400 Subject: TWL: Switching AC In-Reply-To: <20010618040010.AE3EC2625B@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: I installed a new 30A service, used solely for an air conditioner. At dock, this works fine. When using my (120v, not 220) genset, though, I have capacity for the air conditioner and anything else I'm likely to run, so I'd like to combine the circuits in that situation. When underway (but not at anchor), I might want to run the air conditioner off the inverter, which only feeds the other service at present. Any suggestions for a switching arrangement for this? And any ideas where to find an AC switch for this size load? Every boat with a genset has such a switch, but I can't find them in West Marine, BoatUS, or other catalogs. Thanks, Bill Sholar DORY, GB36 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From cculotta@iamerica.net Tue Jun 19 18:05:33 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:05:33 -0500 Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery GPS In-Reply-To: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF07A55E@rtints5.rti.org> Message-ID: <3B2FCCAD.E6BD3B50@iamerica.net> "Wright, James C." wrote: > Find an (antique) Servel refrigerator and modify it to use the waste heat > instead of a gas flame? > -jim > > Or direct that heat to the NORCOLD or DOMETIC gas/elec refrigerator you > already have. Maybe I should suggest that to NORCOLD. ********* A Suggestion Made ********** For all of you who regularly cruise on the ICW's or major rivers in the US ,I recently suggested to GARMIN that they include ,in their GPS units the statute miles of these waterways. That is you cold press one button and get statute miles on the river/ ICW instead of lat or lon. All commercial boats and most pleasure craft ( all of them should) live by the mile posts on these waters. The respondent said he would turn the suggestion over to engineering. We'll see. > CCC Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From Thataway@aol.com Tue Jun 19 18:06:13 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 18:06:13 EDT Subject: TWL: Switching AC Message-ID: Try page 334 of Defender Catalogue. Item #:s 20/202 to 205. These are Gen/shore power tansfer switch from 30 to 130 amps. Specifically 20/204 is for boats with inverters. HOWEVER--do you really want to run an A C unit from an inverter? Takes lots of battery power--I know of a number of folks who have tried and almost all of them have given up. Bob Austin Pensacola, FL From Richter-Pooh@rocketmail.com Tue Jun 19 18:33:54 2001 From: Richter-Pooh@rocketmail.com (Mark Richter) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: norcold frig In-Reply-To: <20010618215945.36954.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010619223354.99164.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> Your lack of cooling seems to be from low voltage at the refrigerator. This problem is overcome during engine running or shore power operation, due to the higher voltage at the batteries while they are being charged. For diagnosis, use a digital volt meter (VOM)and measure the battery voltage at the battery posts, while the refr is running, and no sources are charging the batteries. Then measure the voltage at the input terminals on the refrigerator with the same conditions. IF the difference is more than about 5% (0.6v), then upgrade the wiring to your refrigerator. I had this very problem with my Frigomatic, resulting in the destruction of the compressor controller board (replaced under warranty, since I had used the wire size specified in the instructions). Mark Richter, Winnie the Pooh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From klemmons@airmail.net Tue Jun 19 18:55:30 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:55:30 -0500 Subject: TWL: Whine from 12V stereo system? Message-ID: <3B2FD862.907C11AC@airmail.net> Put a new 12V stereo system with an amplifier in the new boat. When I start the main engine (diesel) up, I get a fixed volume whine from the stereo speakers that increases in pitch as I rev the engine up. I'm assuming it's coming from the alternator somehow. Anyone experienced this and know the fix? TIA -- __________________ Keith Never use a big word when a minuscule one will do. From Joe@JRE.com Tue Jun 19 19:05:02 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:05:02 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Whine from 12V stereo system? Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B48E@WINNTSRV> Filters. Put a filter (large capacitor sold in all boat places), on the output of the alternator. There should always be one there anyway. If this does not take all of the noise away, buy a filter to put on the power wire of your VHF (also sold in all boat places everywhere.) This should do it but sometimes.... Additional things to change if necessary. Make sure the fed wire to the VHF is a good size. Run the feed wire and the ground wire back to the fuse point or bus closest to the batteries. IOW don't gang the power wires together for all your instrumentation and your VHF. Make sure the power feed wires to the VHF are not located close to the alternator or the main output wire of the alternator. Thanks Joe -----Original Message----- From: Keith [mailto:klemmons@airmail.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 3:56 PM To: trawlerworld list Subject: TWL: Whine from 12V stereo system? Put a new 12V stereo system with an amplifier in the new boat. When I start the main engine (diesel) up, I get a fixed volume whine from the stereo speakers that increases in pitch as I rev the engine up. I'm assuming it's coming from the alternator somehow. Anyone experienced this and know the fix? TIA -- __________________ Keith Never use a big word when a minuscule one will do. From Joe@JRE.com Tue Jun 19 19:26:29 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:26:29 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Switching AC Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B490@WINNTSRV> Hi Bill: Running AC on an inverter is really dicey. Unless you have specifically sized your banks and configured your systems to do this, and that means some major AH capacity. Joe Engel -----Original Message----- From: Bill Sholar [mailto:bsholar@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:31 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Switching AC I installed a new 30A service, used solely for an air conditioner. At dock, this works fine. When using my (120v, not 220) genset, though, I have capacity for the air conditioner and anything else I'm likely to run, so I'd like to combine the circuits in that situation. When underway (but not at anchor), I might want to run the air conditioner off the inverter, which only feeds the other service at present. Any suggestions for a switching arrangement for this? And any ideas where to find an AC switch for this size load? Every boat with a genset has such a switch, but I can't find them in West Marine, BoatUS, or other catalogs. Thanks, Bill Sholar DORY, GB36 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From weidner@waterw.com Tue Jun 19 19:59:40 2001 From: weidner@waterw.com (K2JXW / ARLHS.COM) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:59:40 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: Whine from 12V stereo system? In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B48E@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: Radio Shack carries several ignition and alternator noise suppression kits. All are cheap, readily available, and they work. 73 Jim, K2JXW, Amateur Radio Lighthouse Society, Member #001 U S Coast Guard Auxiliary -- USCGAUX, Flotilla 06-05-160 Lightship Sailors Association -- LSA http://arlhs.com ================================================= . -----Original Message----- . From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com . [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Joe Engel . Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 19:05 PM . To: 'trawlerworld list' . Subject: TWL: RE: Whine from 12V stereo system? . . . Filters. . . Put a filter (large capacitor sold in all boat places), on the . output of the . alternator. There should always be one there anyway. . . If this does not take all of the noise away, buy a filter to put on the . power wire of your VHF (also sold in all boat places everywhere.) . . This should do it but sometimes.... . . Additional things to change if necessary. Make sure the fed wire . to the VHF . is a good size. Run the feed wire and the ground wire back to the fuse . point or bus closest to the batteries. IOW don't gang the power wires . together for all your instrumentation and your VHF. Make sure the power . feed wires to the VHF are not located close to the alternator or the main . output wire of the alternator. . . Thanks . . Joe . . -----Original Message----- . From: Keith [mailto:klemmons@airmail.net] . Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 3:56 PM . To: trawlerworld list . Subject: TWL: Whine from 12V stereo system? . . . Put a new 12V stereo system with an amplifier in the new boat. . When I start . the main engine (diesel) up, I get a fixed volume whine from the stereo . speakers that increases in pitch as I rev the engine up. I'm assuming it's . coming from the alternator somehow. Anyone experienced this and know the . fix? TIA . -- . __________________ . Keith . Never use a big word when a minuscule one will do. From samakijoe@mediaone.net Tue Jun 19 20:46:55 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:46:55 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Manifold Cooking with Martha Stewart In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A34087@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010619204655.0080ec90@pop.pompano.net> At 01:21 PM 06/19/2001 -0700, Arild Jensen wrote: >Rick, >I never had the chance to try this on a trawler but when I worked for a >power utility we often cooked snacks on the bucket truck manifold. >The motor had to run to power the hydraulic pump for the arm, so it was >always on. >Make sure you double or triple wrap the potatoes in foil. Nestle the >potatoes in the spot where the manifold connects to the heads. >Any other place is likely too cool since you have water jacketed manifolds. > >My guess, based on my own cooking time is you will need about three house >for a baked potato to be done. >Best check every hour until you develop your own time list. > A couple weeks ago Martha Stewart mentioned cooking on an engine manifold and she said that you should always use parchment as the first layer to wrap your food. Never let food touch aluminum foil. Margaret says I need to get a job...jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From Thataway@aol.com Tue Jun 19 21:25:58 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:25:58 EDT Subject: TWL: Switching A C Message-ID: Arlid points out to me that Bill wants to run the A C unit only when the boat is running and that an AC unit can be run off an inverter pulling 80 to 120 amps--depending on the size of AC unit. If Bill is airconditioning the Main salon of a GB 36 this would probably require a 10,000 (marginal) to 16,000 BTU AC unit --10 to 14 amps 110 V AC--even if the effeciency were 90%, this would require ~ 130 to 160 amps of 12 volt alternator output to keep up. One of the problems that boaters have run into is running alternators at high output for prolonged time--there are alternators designed for this--is over heating. (we don't know if this is a single or twin engine boat). However if there were to be the demand for lets say 150 amps continiously (without any other power demand) this would require the specifically designed alternator and probably special cooling--such as a blower directing air onto the front end of the alternator (demanding another 5 amps or so). Yes it is possiable to run an AC off an inverter-but difficult. One friend of mine tried this on a million dollar 55 foot sailing cat--after he had burned up a number of "high output" alternators and dammaged both main engines running them at low load, he eventually put in a gen set (and new mains). In Bill's case apparently there is already a gen set present. I suspect it will be cheaper and more effecient in the long run just to run the gen set. Incidently my 1500 watt inverter will not run my 13,000 BTU AC unit on my flying bridge--been there and done that. Thus I run the Genset and aircondition the entire boat while underway and leave the inverter for the refigerator in the night--and heating the tea water in the AM with the microwave. Regards, Bob Austin From hal@halwyman.com Wed Jun 20 02:27:39 2001 From: hal@halwyman.com (Hal Wyman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 23:27:39 -0700 Subject: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010618131139.007b8ac0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Captain Al Pilvinis [mailto:yourcaptain@earthlink.net] > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:12 AM > To: Hal Wyman > Subject: RE: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on > the way to San Francisco > > > >As others have pointed out, if you plan to go out in the ocean > in a yacht, > >you had better be prepared for gales and worse. > > > >But aren't you the fellow who kind of poo-poo'ed the idea of any of us > >trawler types spending time in the open ocean in the first place? > > > >Hal > =========================================================== > I will say it again Hal very- very few of us are planning on crossing > oceans. And of those planning, most are dreamers. My comments apply to anyone just doing coastal passages. I agree that those crossing oceans are a small minority of this group. > When are you setting off on your circumnavigation????????????? > . > Captain Al Pilvinis > Nice of you to ask. We left Seattle a year ago and arrived in Florida last month. We are planning to cross the Atlantic next summer. After that we haven't decided whether to keep going East or come back across the Atlantic. Captain Hal Wyman From Annieseztoo@email.msn.com Wed Jun 20 07:39:33 2001 From: Annieseztoo@email.msn.com (Annieseztoo) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 04:39:33 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Switching AC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004001c0f97e$b56710c0$0101a8c0@pavilion> Bill, I have a similar arrangement. 2 30A shore power lines and a 7.5kW gen. I have 2 30 amp rotary switches for controlling the power from either gen or shore. Since the two shore lines may be out of phase they must be kept separate, but I'm using a common feed while running the gen. The rotary switches will have 2 input terminals and one output. The shore power lines are connected to the shore power input terminals on each. The generator line is connected to the generator input of one and then "daisy chained" over to the generator input of the other. The outputs go one line of 30 amps to the house main, and the other line of 30 amps to the air conditioner main. This way the two feeds are kept separate while on shore power and together on the gen. I got the switches from Defender in Connecticut. I think they are made by Newmar. Check www.defender.com Good luck, Walt Konieczko Annie Sez Too 34 Marine Trader Lanoka Harbor, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sholar"> > Any suggestions for a switching arrangement for this? And any ideas where to > find an AC switch for this size load? Every boat with a genset has such a > switch, but I can't find them in West Marine, BoatUS, or other catalogs. > > Thanks, > > Bill Sholar > DORY, GB36 > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From MWiegold@lightstream-usa.com Wed Jun 20 08:36:48 2001 From: MWiegold@lightstream-usa.com (Wiegold, Mike) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:36:48 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Switching AC Message-ID: Defender has them for just under $100 Mike HALFTIME Herndon, VA -----Original Message----- From: Bill Sholar [mailto:bsholar@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 5:31 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Switching AC I installed a new 30A service, used solely for an air conditioner. At dock, this works fine. When using my (120v, not 220) genset, though, I have capacity for the air conditioner and anything else I'm likely to run, so I'd like to combine the circuits in that situation. When underway (but not at anchor), I might want to run the air conditioner off the inverter, which only feeds the other service at present. Any suggestions for a switching arrangement for this? And any ideas where to find an AC switch for this size load? Every boat with a genset has such a switch, but I can't find them in West Marine, BoatUS, or other catalogs. Thanks, Bill Sholar DORY, GB36 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From Chiropaul@aol.com Wed Jun 20 10:22:01 2001 From: Chiropaul@aol.com (Chiropaul@aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:22:01 EDT Subject: TWL: Onan%20heat%20exchanger%20problem Message-ID: Hi Courtenay, Just so happens that I just replaced the exhaust elbow on the 7.5kw MDJE Onan in the 44' Atlantic I just purchased. Seems that the surveyor missed this very noticeable problem. The exhaust elbow cracked, which lets exhaust fumes enter the engine compartment, while at the same time allowing raw water to drain into the drip pan under the generator. Removing the elbow requires removing the heat exchanger and the exhaust manifold as the close nipple holding the elbow on the manifold will in all probability be fused to both. While you have all this apart it's a good time to replace all the water hoses which are 1/2" on the MDJE. The cost for the exhaust elbow from the local Onan dealer here on Long Island was $130. I was advised to heat the exhaust manifold to attempt to remove the elbow and nipple. Unfortunately, by that time I had tried to remove it with a pipe wrench in a vise and broke the nipple. A quick trip to the local Meineke muffler shop solved the problem of removing the rest of the nipple. As far as the engine using antifreeze, while none is appearing in the oil, my guess would be that you have an internal leak in the heat exchange allowing the antifreeze to be sucked out by the vacuum created by the raw water flow. This has happened to me on a gas engine in the past. You might be in the market for a new exchanger which can be purchased from Sendur or Lenco. Hope this helps. Regards, Paul Schlechter Hearts' Desire 44 Atlantic MY From rgano@mantech-pc.com Wed Jun 20 05:31:33 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:31:33 -0000 Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery Message-ID: Sure, Mike. Most Navy ships I ride today and the one I commanded 25 years ago (Cat D399s as power) have waste heat evaporators to make potable water. I'll be it wouldn't take a rocket scientist like yourself long to come up with a workable an simple design for trawler crawlers. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin' From klemmons@airmail.net Wed Jun 20 11:26:19 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:26:19 -0500 Subject: TWL: Diesel Antifreeze Message-ID: <3B30C09B.AE4AF63F@airmail.net> Has anyone looked into the extended life coolants from the automotive stores for diesel engines? Until I saw the recent notes about diesel specific coolants, I wasn't aware that there was a difference (new to diesels.) I'm totally sold on the extended life coolants, but I suppose now I need to read the labels to see if they're suitable for my Lehman diesel. -- __________________ Keith Destroy the Borg? Upload Windows 95 ! From pkoch@dtex.com Wed Jun 20 11:35:22 2001 From: pkoch@dtex.com (Paul Koch) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:35:22 -0400 Subject: TWL: simulcast Trawler Fest Seminars Message-ID: Wouldn't it be nice if the Trawler Fest seminars could be simulcast over the internet for those who couldn't be there. Can this be done? Paul From david@kennett.net Wed Jun 20 11:44:06 2001 From: david@kennett.net (David A. Stahl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:44:06 -0400 Subject: TWL: Manifold Cooking In-Reply-To: <004601c0f8f7$fd59b860$0201a8c0@ricksnote> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010620114406.009f6b30@keywest.kennett.net> snip>>She wondered if she could just put them in the engine room to cook. I >advised her that if it was warm enough to cook potatoes in there, we might >not be eating dinner that night because we would be too busy fighting the >fire. Snip>> I have on several occasions cooked hot dogs and heated canned foods like stew or ravioli on the diesels. Potatoes will work too. I just wrapped them in Aluminum foil and rested them between the intake blower and the value covers. Neither the intakes or the exhaust get as hot as glowing charcoal, so allow a little more time than you do on the barbecue. Make sure you open cans so they don't burst. I would guess a two hour cruise should give you a great baked potato. Skooch Hatteras 42 LRC Palm Beach - Under Repairs David Stahl ************************************************************** Kennett Internet Services, 112 S. Union Street, Kennett Square, PA 19348 610-444-9008 Visit our web site at http://www.kennett.net From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 11:46:52 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010620154652.75361.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Im getting tired of my shower sump spilling more water into my bilge than pumping over board. So time to do somethign about it. My setup is kind of strange. the shower has a several gallon plastic container that cathes the water and funnels it through a hose. this part is ok. the hose leads into a very small hard plastic box. the box contains a small pump of sorts coontrolled by a float switch located also inside the box. Also attached to the box is an outlet hose. the entire thing is not more than 6 in long and 4-5 in high. The box is just kind of half assed rigged above the bilge on what looks like a spare refrigerator rack. (the plastic ones used to create shelves.) Its really just placed there and is free to move as it pleases. The box is also open and can and DOES spill water out at every opportunity. Now the questions: Does the setup I described above sound typical? Im guessing no. What do some of you out there have? Suggestions on improvement? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ttalling@voyager.net Wed Jun 20 11:57:23 2001 From: ttalling@voyager.net (Terry Talling) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:57:23 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: AC Message-ID: FWIW, the latest issue of PassageMaker has a news blurb on the Gensys AC alternator (4kW/280 Amps @12 volt) "which can power an air conditioner or other electrical appliances using only the vessel's propulsion engine." "To enjoy the Gensys' full potential, a 3,000-watt inverter is also needed." Apparently a Geman product distributed in the U.S by Lauderdale Diesel International: www.laudiesel.com It doesn't sound too bad - supposedly only puts a 7-hp load on the engine - all for $2,595. Terry Talling Monk 36 - Scoop From LRZeitlin@aol.com Wed Jun 20 11:54:06 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:54:06 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Waste heat recovery Message-ID: <26.170d4946.2862211e@aol.com> In a message dated 6/20/01 4:03:25 AM, Mikewrites: << can anyone think of a waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? >> How about using it to heat hot water? Nah. Too simple. No one would ever take the idea seriously. Larry Zeitlin From LRZeitlin@aol.com Wed Jun 20 11:59:56 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:59:56 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Manifold cooking Message-ID: <68.1051303e.2862227c@aol.com> In a message dated 6/20/01 4:03:25 AM, Rick writes: << I have heard about cooking on the exhaust manifold of a car. >> This used to be accepted practice for indigent college students on Spring break trips. Be sure to punch a hole in can lids before heating on the manifold. You probably don't want to hear how I know this - just use your imagination. Larry Zeitlin From kvolk@mindspring.com Wed Jun 20 15:47:21 2001 From: kvolk@mindspring.com (Kurt Volk) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:47:21 -0700 Subject: TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? Message-ID: <071e01c0f9c1$d3519f40$a564343f@kvolk> Why not choose a beautiful Trumpy, Stephens, Huckins or other older wood classic as the ultimate cruising boat? This question may be part fantasy or part silly, but it is also serious. There are some gorgeous, even flawless, classic wooden boats on the market and they often sell at bargain prices. The cost difference between a 60 foot Trumpy and a same size new boat would pay for a lot of boatyard maintenance! I do understand that maintenance is a big issue. Still, I'm wondering whether the extended cruising/livaboard lifestyle enjoyed by Trawler World subscribers adds weight to the "go with classic wood" argument or detracts from it. That is, if you are going to use the boat a lot, ( i.e. for extended cruising) does the lower initial purchase price and the opportunity to keep up with daily maintenance start to outweigh the higher initial price and presumed lower maintenance of a new boat? My queston puts aside the issue of crossing oceans and also assumes that we are discussing a well built wooden craft in superior condition. The query is this: If the goal is coastal cruising from Nova Scotia to the Bahamas, are there economic arguments to support traveling in the graceful elegance of an ol' classic motoryacht? Arguments for and against are equally welcome! Kurt Volk M/V Serenade Branford, CT From 2kalani@home.com Wed Jun 20 12:50:54 2001 From: 2kalani@home.com (Tom Little) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:50:54 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: shower sumps In-Reply-To: <20010620154652.75361.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c0f9a9$2c4543e0$0200a8c0@pcht1.fl.home.com> Our shower drain hose is connected directly to an old fashioned Par diaphram pump. This pump will handle some trash. The pump discharge hose goes through a vented loop overboard. After some water accumlates in the shower basin, a manual switch is used to turn the pump on. We tell our guests that if the pump has to be turned on prior to the shower completion, they are using too much water. Tom Little Defever 49PH From DDW1668@aol.com Wed Jun 20 13:13:31 2001 From: DDW1668@aol.com (DDW1668@aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:13:31 EDT Subject: TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I spent a week in May tied up next to a Trumpy of about 64' at Palmer Johnson in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin. The amount of money that is required to maintain such a yacht in such a condition can only be conjectured. Having owned several wooden boats over the years, I can truthfully say that "never again" means NEVER AGAIN! Dan Weaver M/V Propper Lady 40' Trojan lying Sturgeon Bay, WI www.perfectprops.com From samakijoe@mediaone.net Wed Jun 20 13:17:21 2001 From: samakijoe@mediaone.net (Joe DellaFera) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:17:21 -0400 Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: <20010620154652.75361.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010620131721.007d4ba0@pop.pompano.net> At 08:46 AM 06/20/2001 -0700, Dan Symula wrote: >Im getting tired of my shower sump spilling more water >into my bilge than pumping over board. So time to do >somethign about it. > >My setup is kind of strange. the shower has a several >gallon plastic container that cathes the water and >funnels it through a hose. this part is ok. the hose >leads into a very small hard plastic box. the box >contains a small pump of sorts coontrolled by a float >switch located also inside the box. Also attached to >the box is an outlet hose. the entire thing is not >more than 6 in long and 4-5 in high. > >The box is just kind of half assed rigged above the >bilge on what looks like a spare refrigerator rack. >(the plastic ones used to create shelves.) Its really >just placed there and is free to move as it pleases. > >The box is also open and can and DOES spill water out >at every opportunity. > >Now the questions: Does the setup I described above >sound typical? Im guessing no. > >What do some of you out there have? >Suggestions on improvement? > >Dan >37 Roughwater Dan: Our boat shower uses a diaphram type pump to get rid of used shower water. The pump is controlled by a switch located in the shower area. when turned on, it pumps out any water in the tub. If it is not turned on the water stays in the tub, (take a bath). A light near the switch reminds us when the pump is on...jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. From hal@halwyman.com Wed Jun 20 13:56:14 2001 From: hal@halwyman.com (Hal Wyman) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:56:14 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Waste Heat Recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Sure, Mike. Most Navy ships I ride today and the one I > commanded 25 years ago (Cat D399s as power) have waste heat > evaporators to make potable water. I'll be it wouldn't take > a rocket scientist like yourself long to come up with a > workable an simple design for trawler crawlers. > > Rich Gano The problem is that the temperature of waste heat is way too low to evaporate water. Commercial systems that I am familiar with use a vacuum pump to lower the boiling point of sea water to a temperature below that of the waste heat. Hal From DDW1668@aol.com Wed Jun 20 14:11:21 2001 From: DDW1668@aol.com (DDW1668@aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:11:21 EDT Subject: TWL: Electronic AC and heat controls Message-ID: <8e.1740705f.28624149@aol.com> I bought two digital electronic controllers for my 1975 vintage Cruisairs three years ago from a company called Micro Air. They are working well and I would like some for my 1981 Trojan with two Cruisairs. The only beef I have is the difficulty of matching up the wiring which is NOT color coded and plug and play as I was told back then. Anyone have experience with this or a different retrofit for the old manual controls on Cruisairs? Dan Weaver M/V Propper Lady freonless in Sturgeon Bay From rboelsem@gte.net Wed Jun 20 15:33:37 2001 From: rboelsem@gte.net (Randy Boelsems) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:33:37 -0700 Subject: TWL: Manifold Cooking Message-ID: <004a01c0f9bf$e84b69a0$92bb0c42@DSL.GTEI.NET> Rick, We have tried manifold cooking and have the following observations: The temperature on our exhaust manifold must be to low so we use "slow" cooking type recipes similar to "Crock pot" recipes but without as much fluid. Since we moved up to a 17 knot boat our typical run to Catalina is only 2 hours and is not enough time to cook completely so we add an hour in the oven at 350 deg. You need 4 to 6 hours on the manifold for it to cook completely. It is hard to over cook, it just gets more tender. With our trawler, the trip to Catalina took 4 hours and the veggies were a little crunchy but it was still a good meal. We use the Reynolds Aluminum bags that can be purchased at the supermarket. We double bag them, but still recommend a foil type pan underneath it. We used a wire coat hanger to hold it in place. (We usually do not keep them on board so the coat hanger was hard to find) Good quality meat helps, especially if the cooking time is to short. Some recopies suggest browning the meat first, but not always necessary. Fresh vegetables, carrots, potatoes, an onion, some spices, a little flour, a little red wine helped a lot (both in the bag and at the table). Good luck. Randy Boelsems GECKO GECKO 1992 Euphorie 40ft. Power Cat Huntington Beach, CA From jgaquin@ici.net Wed Jun 20 15:36:22 2001 From: jgaquin@ici.net (John Gaquin) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:36:22 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: shower sumps In-Reply-To: <20010620154652.75361.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001b01c0f9c0$4b863ea0$7712b4cf@computer> From: Dan Symula > Im getting tired of my shower sump spilling > What do some of you out there have? Dan.... Our shower drains through a 5/8 hose into a sump of about 2 gal or so, with an integral strainer to catch hair, etc. Mounted in the sump is a small bilge pump/float switch assy (~ 300gph) which exhausts overboard. It's basically the generic unit sold through WM or BUS, and works just fine. If you choose this route, I would suggest two mods (both on the list for this summer on the Queen). 1) enlarge the drain line to 1" or 1-1/4". 5/8" is a little too slow, and after a few minutes, the shower pan starts to fill up. 2) Install an Off-Man-Auto switch on the system. This will enable you to manually pump out the half full sump that always remains after a shower, thus avoiding odor buildup. From billhunnicutt@juno.com Wed Jun 20 15:55:35 2001 From: billhunnicutt@juno.com (william e hunnicutt) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:55:35 -0500 Subject: TWL: Sassafras on the move again Message-ID: <20010620.145603.-273727.2.billhunnicutt@juno.com> Hello folks After two weeks in Biloxi we were ready to continue or cruise but a girl called Allison had other plans. She spun merrily round and round over Texas and Louisiana while I tried to decide if I moved would she and chase me down or would she stay put. I decided to wait........................and I waited and waited. Finally she came our way she snuck in under cover of darkness about 1:30am I awoke to thunder and went back to sleep. I was wide a wake at 5:30am reading 50mph wind steady, on the weather monitor. The water started coming up the tide was almost in. We adjusted our lines about an hour later as the water was over the piers and wharf filling the parking lot. I didn't relish the thought of parking the boat there. Everything stayed put as the tide started out and the water receded that evening. We extended our stay a little longer as we waited for Allison to finally move northeast and calmer weather to cover Mississippi sound. We left Biloxi, Davis bayou on the 16'th. We had been there almost a month. I had a haul out date for the 19'th at Snug Harbor marina/boatyard Panama City FL. We had 2 1/2 seas on the beam except in the passes where they were about 3 31/2 not the most comfortable way to pass the day. But better than sitting at a desk. Sassafras cruised to Dog River and tied up again at Grand Mariner marina. We met some locals in a beautiful 1959 wooden25ft cabin cruiser called Tehlulah. It reminded me of some of my dads old boats. Not being one to turn down a boat ride we took a memorable moonlight cruise later that night. The next morning we cruised on to Big Lagoon' Pensacola FL. This is an excellent place to anchor and enjoy the beaches. I thought I heard Bob Austins Thataway hailing another vessel on the VHF but was unsure if I remembered the name right. I roused the crew (well really just my wife. teenage beauty Queen daughters are best left alone in the early A.M.) and cruised on to Joes Bayou Destin FL. This anchorage is discussed in Youngs guide and is indeed a good and well protected one (except for north winds)........but be aware in the summer time this a local water ski hot spot. They go round an round and have a how close can we come to the anchored trawler contest. So plan to arrive late in the day or be prepared to ride it out. I have anchored in the two bayous across the bay from this spot and they are good also but they require a 5 to 7 mile side trip from the intercostal. Leaving after a very calm night without a ripple on the bayou we cruised choctawatchee bay with 10 kts on the nose. A little choppy as they were about 1/2 second apart but hardly noticeable on the nose. I did notice that it dosent take much sea on the nose to come over the rail. We arrived in Panama City and tied to the dock at Snug Harbor. We prepared the boat for haul out and she's now on stands awaiting a re pitched prop and a little TLC. We intend to head on down to carrabell next week. P.S. fuel in mobile at dog river marinas $1.40, Biloxi $1.14, Big lagoon rod and reel marina $1.30 Bill H, 36 MT SASSAFRAS billhunnicutt@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From Mrmoo5@aol.com Wed Jun 20 17:36:14 2001 From: Mrmoo5@aol.com (Mrmoo5@aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:36:14 EDT Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <10c.1907758.2862714e@aol.com> I had the same situation only worse as the shower sump was located underneath the house battery box. I junked the shower sump box and routed the shower drain hose directly into the hull sump where the shower water is pumped overboard by the bilge pump. Problem solved. Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA From jalexander@ticz.com Wed Jun 20 17:31:29 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:31:29 -0400 Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010620173129.007bf2b0@pop.ticz.com> Well, after reading a couple of the respopnses to this problem, I have decided to interject my thoughts and experience on the subject, limited as it is. I first of all disagree with the last response which suggested draining the shower sump directly into the bilge. This can only result in soap scum, hair and all sorts of nasty stuff getting into the bilge where it will only lead to problems of both mess and odor. On my prvious boat I had two shower sump boxes that I would guess were similar to the ones decribed by the originating message. Both contained small pumps actuated by a float switch. My guess as to why one of these would fail to remove the water adequately and as a result "overflow" would be caused by either a failure of the switch or pump, or be as the result of being clogged by the aforementioned scum and hair build-up. I did find it necessary to clean out these sump boxes every few months in order to keep them operating at peak efficiency. Each of my boxes had a small screen placed between the inflow area and the pump to catch any debris and this screen could rapidly become clogged. I would imagine that on a vessel that is being used as a live aboard, this could happen rather quickly as showers are being taken on a daily basis. Of course another point of consideration is the installation and the resultant length of hose run to the discharge site. If the run is excessive, it might be beyond the capability of the pump to push an adequate water flow out quick enough to keep the box level below the top, a larger capacity pump could be the answer here. Obviously a kinked hose could also be a problem. Another prolbem could result if a check-valve has been place into the discharge line. Check valves can become fowled and then fail to fully open, restricting the outflow of the box. This could be another reason for the box overflowing. Jim Alexander From Rollsdoc@aol.com Wed Jun 20 18:46:24 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:46:24 EDT Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9a.15e5119c.286281c0@aol.com> In a message dated 6/20/01 11:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, adventuresoul@yahoo.com writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> Rollsdoc has a 20 Gal fiberglass box (grey water tank) that has an openning in the top into which the showers drain. Through this opening we have a plastic pipe that goes to the bottom of the tank. Mounted atop the tank we have a Whale gusher pump.In the bottom of the tank is a float switch No strainers to plug up. The diaphram lasts about 1 year. We have had other pumps that needed maintenance once a month, but this one works. Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH From Joe@JRE.com Wed Jun 20 19:15:02 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:15:02 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: shower sumps Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4A5@WINNTSRV> Hi Dan: The shower sump setup you describe is pretty common to many recreational vessels. The small plastic box, with a level switch and a pump, is an off-the-shelf unit. I think they are made by Lewellyn but not sure. Generally this setup works pretty good. Occasionally (every few years) there might be a need to clean out the plastic box because of built up soap scum, hair, etc. The part I don't understand is the "the box is also open an does spill water out at every opportunity." My recollection is that these units are pretty well sealed up. Seems that they have a whole lot of screws holding the top cover on the box. If plastic box didn't leak, it would work OK for you, right? Maybe yours is missing a piece? Joe Engel From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 19:22:15 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: RE: shower sumps In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4A5@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: <20010620232215.69499.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Good call Joe. Im going to inspect it tonight and look for screw holes in the top where a lid might once have been attached. My other situation is the mounting of it though. It can easily turn sideways is what I was trying to get at. Im going ot have to put some thought into it if I keep it. Not sure yet. Have gotten great posts from everyone. Thanks all. Dan --- Joe Engel wrote: > Hi Dan: > > The shower sump setup you describe is pretty common > to many recreational > vessels. The small plastic box, with a level switch > and a pump, is an > off-the-shelf unit. I think they are made by > Lewellyn but not sure. > Generally this setup works pretty good. > Occasionally (every few years) > there might be a need to clean out the plastic box > because of built up soap > scum, hair, etc. > > The part I don't understand is the "the box is also > open an does spill water > out at every opportunity." My recollection is that > these units are pretty > well sealed up. Seems that they have a whole lot of > screws holding the top > cover on the box. If plastic box didn't leak, it > would work OK for you, > right? Maybe yours is missing a piece? > > Joe Engel ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jardined@sympatico.ca Wed Jun 20 19:45:26 2001 From: jardined@sympatico.ca (Donald Jardine) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:45:26 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Waste Heat Recovery In-Reply-To: <20010620040015.77A2926246@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: Ref comments by Alex Hirsekorn : I agree that watermaking and refrigeration are top items. Dometic and Electrolux make small absorption reefers. There is no reason why they shouldn't be used in boats. They have been in Europe for many years. However, some marine insurance companies balk at the usual open-flame kerosene or propane powered absorption reefers. Using waste heat obviates that. Power consumption at 12v tends to be higher than for conventional compressor reefers.See http://www.otal.umd.edu/~vg/amst205.F97/vj09/project5.html It seems to me that a waste-heat driven reefer is not likely to be cheaper than the ordinary electric one. The capital cost is similar, and the waste-heat piping is additional. It can use waste heat only when an engine is running, at which time there is lots of electrical power. It's hard to store waste heat on small boats (a tank of hot water would be the simplest way). Storing electricity is easy, efficient, and cheap. I think there is a different argument for water distillation using waste heat. R/O units are complex, expensive and require regular maintenance. They do not cope with intermittent use very well either. But, the main drawback to R/O for small boats is the capital cost, especially if professionally installed. A vacuum distillation unit requires a vacuum to lower the boiling temperature of seawater, a raw-water cooling pump to condense the vapor, a boiler, a condenser, and some piping and gauges. The vacuum can be created by a water injector using the condenser cooling water. None of these is high-tech. I believe that a water distillation unit should be scalable, that is, it could be produced in a wide range of sizes, at a roughly proportionate cost. There seems to be no small units available; at least, they don't appear on the Web. -- Donald A. Jardine Kingston ON, CANADA "NANUK" Oceania 36 Sedan From cculotta@iamerica.net Wed Jun 20 20:01:31 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:01:31 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re: shower sumps/mounting In-Reply-To: <20010620232215.69499.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B31395B.994D7145@iamerica.net> Dan, I was faced with mounting the "brains" of the auto pilot in a very awkward place to drive the two screws. Eureka!!! I used a big glob of silicon ---that was sometime in the summer of 1987 and it is still there. CCC Dan Symula wrote: > My other situation is the mounting of it though. Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 20 10:31:54 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:31:54 -0400 Subject: TWL: Chesapeake - Land of Pleasant Living Message-ID: <000101c0f9ed$6c205ec0$b4ea4e0c@KennethMcQuage> >Fromthe Chesapeake - Land of Pleasant Living RED ALERTS for dangerous air quality -have been issued both yesterday and today for Baltimore and the upper Chesapeake Region -- ( and it ain't even July or August yet) The ER's are doing a thriving business with people who can't breathe .. Maybe it has something to do with Congress being back in session ! Also Beth Steel has agreed to " voluntarily reduce " the 87 Million Tons of arsenic and other pollutants that they dump into the Bay each year - sometime soon -- maybe ! Enjoy your swim ! Ken Environmental Wacko From rwhb@email.msn.com Wed Jun 20 22:03:15 2001 From: rwhb@email.msn.com (ronald barr) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:03:15 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE:Batteries In-Reply-To: <20010615040013.6747826249@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: Reference Mike Schooley's remarks - these don't seem to hold up when considering such batteries as Rolls new 8-D replacement series which although expensive can be replaced cell by cell and include Hydrocaps which certainly limit gassing and reduce maintenance to 1 or 2 times per year. They also have their own CG approved battery boxes. Ron Barr Hatteras LRC 42 From love@3dnet.com Wed Jun 20 22:31:44 2001 From: love@3dnet.com (lynn love) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:31:44 -0400 Subject: TWL: Lehman vs Cummins Message-ID: <3B315C8F.C69D41B6@3dnet.com> I am currently comparing two 34' Marine Traders to consider making a purchase. One is equipped with a 210 cummins turbo(1990) and the other boat is the 135 lehman(1991). It is my understanding that the 210 was an upgrade for this model. My question is: which of these engines is the more desirable? I have some reservations about a turbo. Is this justified? I have never heard any bad comments about the Lehman and was seeking input from those who know. btw...the lehman has about 950 hours and the cummins has about 1800 hours. Thanks Lynn -Tampa From bhall@bcpl.net Wed Jun 20 23:12:48 2001 From: bhall@bcpl.net (Brian J. Hall) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:12:48 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Re: RE: Coolant Reservoir Message-ID: <039001c0fa00$3e7e9140$b67ef2d0@brihall> >Brian, it is my understanding that you DO indeed need to replace the >expansion tank filler neck on the Lehman engine when adding the recovery >bottle Rich, My cap is allowing the anti-freeze to belch out and then be sucked back into the reservoir. Maybe the rubber gasket is tired and allowing this to work well in spite of itself? Another Lehman 120 owner removed the (lower rubber cap gasket ?) to allow two-way communication between the expansion tank and the coolant reservoir. Try adding the tank and if the coolant does not return back to the expansion tank then fiddle with the lower gasket, if this does not work buy Bob's updated filler neck. The new neck is well made and you just glue it in with Marine Tex , etc. Brian . From bhall@bcpl.net Wed Jun 20 23:21:46 2001 From: bhall@bcpl.net (Brian J. Hall) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:21:46 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Lehman vs Cummins Message-ID: <039701c0fa01$4ec7c480$b67ef2d0@brihall> Both great engines! But do you want or need a turbo? The Lehman is a poor man's Gardner and the perfect engine for a boat of your class. The Lehman is simple, over-built and at 950 hours not even broken in! A hard call as they are both super engines. Brian Hall CHB 45 "Any Sea" Baltimore From richard@richardmorrison.com Wed Jun 20 22:47:43 2001 From: richard@richardmorrison.com (Richard Morrison) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:47:43 -0500 Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010620212815.00b63af0@shell14.ba.best.com> Having just filled up the fuel tanks and the water tanks completely for the first time since owning the boat, I find that our previously level boat is now has its bow about 4"-5" higher. (Hmmm, maybe that's why the previous owners were on the shore water system.) This is a slight problem because it means that our amidships bed (head towards the stern) now has the feet slightly higher than the head. Also, the exhaust ports which were previously totally above the water line, are now partially below. (Should this be a concern? I'm a little nervous about exhaust hose leaks.) So my thoughts have turned to possibly adding some lead weight in the bow to bring it back down. I'm looking for some advice here: 1) How does one go about securing bars of lead to the hull? 2) Where do I go to get lead bars? A foundry? 3) Is this not a good thing to do since as we use up fuel/water the bow will then go slightly lower than before -- any performance issues? I guess I'm asking where in the tankage curve the boat should be level, or is this just a personal choice kind of thing? TIA- Richard ------------------------- 49' Marine Trader Pilothouse (1978) SF Bay, CA From Awgertoo@aol.com Thu Jun 21 06:50:26 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:50:26 EDT Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <54.163c8efe.28632b72@aol.com> In a message dated 6/21/01 12:48:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, richard@richardmorrison.com writes: << 1) How does one go about securing bars of lead to the hull? 2) Where do I go to get lead bars? A foundry? >> Richard-- We designed and built NAMASTE in the pre-computer days (1977), and although it was the 9th hull that Durbeck built they were all custom from the deck up. Steve Seaton, the designer, suggested leaving out some of the ballast until after we launched and filled all tanks, etc. As it turns out, the bow floated 4 or 5 inches high off the "marks". Although the main midship ballast is concrete I wanted to take up as little space in the forward bilges as possible in getting the boat to float properly, so I elected to use lead pigs and "punchings" (small pieces cut on the job and/or purchased at the foundry). After stacking the pigs as carefully and close as possible under the forepeak sole (thru an access hole cut between the floor timbers) we made up a slurry of resin and concrete into which we mixed the punchings and poured this in and around the pigs to both fill all voids and at the same time secure them against movement. I worked fast so that the entire mass was a continuous pour to achieve structural integrity, verus having separate "pieces" of ballast. After the area was filled we simply patched the access hole, making sure that we picked up the transverse floor timbers with heavy fasteners--then glassed over everything. I wound up putting about 2000# of trim ballast forward and like to think that the already-heavy fiberglass layup is reinforced from the waterline down for about two or three feet, giving me a "ram-bow" in case of any serious collision! As I recall, we were able to cut the lead pigs up with a chainsaw tho achieve wedge-shaped pieces, but this was nasty and probably highly toxic work--fortunately I had already had my children.... Look in the yellow pages under scrap metal, or check nearby boat yards. Try to find pigs that are cast in various shapes to help achieve compactness. As I recall, I paid about $.50/lb for clean pigs weighing around 60 pounds, but market prices vary as with all metals. Nowadays with modern small boat design programs available, there is no reason why a new boat should not be made to float close to its marks when launched. If you have to add ballast to the ends of the boat so be it, but remember that in doing so you will be increasing its tendency to pitch, or hobby-horse, esp. in head seas, and you may want to consult a qualified professional to see how this would affect buoyancy, etc. Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From Rollsdoc@aol.com Thu Jun 21 07:19:27 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:19:27 EDT Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <24.152e3371.2863323f@aol.com> In a message dated 6/21/01 12:48:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, richard@richardmorrison.com writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> Did you fill the forward water tank too? What's in your anchor locker? Rollsdoc sets a little low in the stern when all tanks are full, but our bed sets port to starboard. Also we have 400 ft. of chain in the locker. But then we have 12 dive tanks in the lasserette too. As to putting lead in I'd say no. Just load the forward bilge with stores (beer and sodas on Rollsdoc) . The stores do seem to go away faster than the fuel though. Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH From Awgertoo@aol.com Thu Jun 21 07:28:24 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:28:24 EDT Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/21/01 7:19:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Rollsdoc@aol.com writes: << As to putting lead in I'd say no. Just load the forward bilge with stores (beer and sodas on Rollsdoc) . The stores do seem to go away faster than the fuel though. >> Without knowing anything about your boat, let's assume a burn-rate of 5 gph x 6 hrs (short day's run). So, if your "liquid trim ballast" is forward and your fuel tanks are aft or midships you may have to drink 15-20 gallons of "beer/soda" per day to maintain this "equilibrum". And if your holding tank is aft, we're talking about a signifigant weight shift from bow to stern... Either way, I hope that both your kidneys and heads are in good shape--I'll opt for a more permanent solution, thanks! Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From brooksd2@hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 08:30:08 2001 From: brooksd2@hotmail.com (David Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:30:08 -0400 Subject: TWL: Greywater recycling Message-ID: Has anyone used the greywater from the shower sump to a washdown system? After an 8 hr ride with salt spray evaporating on the decks there was crystaline salt on the decks. I used the ice melt from the cooler to washdown, but we don't always have large quantities of ice melt water. Dave Silver Belle ps. maybe I can roll the potatoes from the manifold cooking down the deck to use the salt;-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From klemmons@airmail.net Thu Jun 21 08:48:51 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:48:51 -0500 Subject: TWL: shower sumps Message-ID: <3B31ED33.919724FA@airmail.net> Dan: I have the same setup in my Krogen 42, although the only time it ever overflows is if I forget to turn the pump on. Attwood makes a shower sump setup that is very nice. Sealed box with various inlets that are also sealed when you buy it. You cut the end off the size hose nipple you want to install the hose from the shower. It has a pump and float switch inside. I've used those on other boats, and they work fine. I'm thinking about replacing the one on my krogen with one of those, but since the old one seems to work for now, I'm putting that low on the priority list. -- __________________ Keith Age is a very high price to pay for maturity. From georgs@trawlerworld.com Thu Jun 21 08:47:27 2001 From: georgs@trawlerworld.com (Georgs Kolesnikovs) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:47:27 -0400 Subject: TWL: Starship completes its millenium voyage Message-ID: >Our Expedition is coming to an end today. STARSHIP will arrive after >1,009 days >of circumnavigation in Hamburg Germany for a big welcome party. > >The book is well underway and will be available early July. 45,000 pictures >are archived and well over 400 hrs of professional video. Altogether we >traveled 75,000 nm and have visited 53 countries. Our website was visited >by more than 6 million people from more than 70 countries. > >Please see details at http:///www.ms-starship.com > >Michael Poliza From rwhb@email.msn.com Thu Jun 21 10:14:56 2001 From: rwhb@email.msn.com (ronald barr) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:14:56 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Trumpy for Trawler In-Reply-To: <20010621040013.B00DB26246@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: I've had fiberglass, steel, wood and cold moulded boats over the years and my favorite (so far) was a 1938 S&S Cruisailer - a 41ft on deck motor sailer. I sailed her about 50,000 miles from Newfoundland to Venezuela and Panama including a couple of transatlantics. She arrived in my ownership aged 35 and in mint condition from a loving obsessive prior owner - and I think that is the key. She also gave me the least trouble. True you had to paint her and I was young enough to spend days in the do-it-yourself shipyard sanding and painting myself, but she was beautiful and very reliable. Ron Barr Hatteras 42 LRC -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:00 AM To: trawler-world-list-digest@samurai.com Subject: trawler-world-list V4 #354 trawler-world-list Thursday, June 21 2001 Volume 04 : Number 354 RE: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco TWL: Re: Switching AC TWL: RE: Switching AC TWL: Onan%20heat%20exchanger%20problem TWL: Waste Heat Recovery TWL: Diesel Antifreeze TWL: simulcast Trawler Fest Seminars Re: TWL: Manifold Cooking TWL: shower sumps TWL: RE: AC TWL: Re: Waste heat recovery TWL: Re: Manifold cooking TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? TWL: Re: shower sumps Re: TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? Re: TWL: shower sumps TWL: RE: Waste Heat Recovery TWL: Electronic AC and heat controls TWL: Manifold Cooking TWL: Re: shower sumps TWL: Sassafras on the move again Re: TWL: shower sumps Re: TWL: shower sumps Re: TWL: shower sumps TWL: RE: shower sumps Re: TWL: RE: shower sumps TWL: Re: Waste Heat Recovery TWL: Re: shower sumps/mounting TWL: Chesapeake - Land of Pleasant Living TWL: RE:Batteries TWL: Lehman vs Cummins TWL: Re: Re: RE: Coolant Reservoir TWL: Re: Lehman vs Cummins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 23:27:39 -0700 From: "Hal Wyman" Subject: RE: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on the way to San Francisco > -----Original Message----- > From: Captain Al Pilvinis [mailto:yourcaptain@earthlink.net] > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:12 AM > To: Hal Wyman > Subject: RE: TWL: Cruising aboard Four Seasons: Punching into a gale on > the way to San Francisco > > > >As others have pointed out, if you plan to go out in the ocean > in a yacht, > >you had better be prepared for gales and worse. > > > >But aren't you the fellow who kind of poo-poo'ed the idea of any of us > >trawler types spending time in the open ocean in the first place? > > > >Hal > =========================================================== > I will say it again Hal very- very few of us are planning on crossing > oceans. And of those planning, most are dreamers. My comments apply to anyone just doing coastal passages. I agree that those crossing oceans are a small minority of this group. > When are you setting off on your circumnavigation????????????? > . > Captain Al Pilvinis > Nice of you to ask. We left Seattle a year ago and arrived in Florida last month. We are planning to cross the Atlantic next summer. After that we haven't decided whether to keep going East or come back across the Atlantic. Captain Hal Wyman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 04:39:33 -0700 From: "Annieseztoo" Subject: TWL: Re: Switching AC Bill, I have a similar arrangement. 2 30A shore power lines and a 7.5kW gen. I have 2 30 amp rotary switches for controlling the power from either gen or shore. Since the two shore lines may be out of phase they must be kept separate, but I'm using a common feed while running the gen. The rotary switches will have 2 input terminals and one output. The shore power lines are connected to the shore power input terminals on each. The generator line is connected to the generator input of one and then "daisy chained" over to the generator input of the other. The outputs go one line of 30 amps to the house main, and the other line of 30 amps to the air conditioner main. This way the two feeds are kept separate while on shore power and together on the gen. I got the switches from Defender in Connecticut. I think they are made by Newmar. Check www.defender.com Good luck, Walt Konieczko Annie Sez Too 34 Marine Trader Lanoka Harbor, NJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sholar"> > Any suggestions for a switching arrangement for this? And any ideas where to > find an AC switch for this size load? Every boat with a genset has such a > switch, but I can't find them in West Marine, BoatUS, or other catalogs. > > Thanks, > > Bill Sholar > DORY, GB36 > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:36:48 -0400 From: "Wiegold, Mike" Subject: TWL: RE: Switching AC Defender has them for just under $100 Mike HALFTIME Herndon, VA - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Sholar [mailto:bsholar@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 5:31 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Switching AC I installed a new 30A service, used solely for an air conditioner. At dock, this works fine. When using my (120v, not 220) genset, though, I have capacity for the air conditioner and anything else I'm likely to run, so I'd like to combine the circuits in that situation. When underway (but not at anchor), I might want to run the air conditioner off the inverter, which only feeds the other service at present. Any suggestions for a switching arrangement for this? And any ideas where to find an AC switch for this size load? Every boat with a genset has such a switch, but I can't find them in West Marine, BoatUS, or other catalogs. Thanks, Bill Sholar DORY, GB36 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:22:01 EDT From: Chiropaul@aol.com Subject: TWL: Onan%20heat%20exchanger%20problem Hi Courtenay, Just so happens that I just replaced the exhaust elbow on the 7.5kw MDJE Onan in the 44' Atlantic I just purchased. Seems that the surveyor missed this very noticeable problem. The exhaust elbow cracked, which lets exhaust fumes enter the engine compartment, while at the same time allowing raw water to drain into the drip pan under the generator. Removing the elbow requires removing the heat exchanger and the exhaust manifold as the close nipple holding the elbow on the manifold will in all probability be fused to both. While you have all this apart it's a good time to replace all the water hoses which are 1/2" on the MDJE. The cost for the exhaust elbow from the local Onan dealer here on Long Island was $130. I was advised to heat the exhaust manifold to attempt to remove the elbow and nipple. Unfortunately, by that time I had tried to remove it with a pipe wrench in a vise and broke the nipple. A quick trip to the local Meineke muffler shop solved the problem of removing the rest of the nipple. As far as the engine using antifreeze, while none is appearing in the oil, my guess would be that you have an internal leak in the heat exchange allowing the antifreeze to be sucked out by the vacuum created by the raw water flow. This has happened to me on a gas engine in the past. You might be in the market for a new exchanger which can be purchased from Sendur or Lenco. Hope this helps. Regards, Paul Schlechter Hearts' Desire 44 Atlantic MY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:31:33 -0000 From: "Rich Gano" Subject: TWL: Waste Heat Recovery Sure, Mike. Most Navy ships I ride today and the one I commanded 25 years ago (Cat D399s as power) have waste heat evaporators to make potable water. I'll be it wouldn't take a rocket scientist like yourself long to come up with a workable an simple design for trawler crawlers. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB42-295) Homeport Panama City I'd rather be cruisin' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:26:19 -0500 From: Keith Subject: TWL: Diesel Antifreeze Has anyone looked into the extended life coolants from the automotive stores for diesel engines? Until I saw the recent notes about diesel specific coolants, I wasn't aware that there was a difference (new to diesels.) I'm totally sold on the extended life coolants, but I suppose now I need to read the labels to see if they're suitable for my Lehman diesel. - -- __________________ Keith Destroy the Borg? Upload Windows 95 ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:35:22 -0400 From: Paul Koch Subject: TWL: simulcast Trawler Fest Seminars Wouldn't it be nice if the Trawler Fest seminars could be simulcast over the internet for those who couldn't be there. Can this be done? Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:44:06 -0400 From: "David A. Stahl" Subject: Re: TWL: Manifold Cooking nip>>She wondered if she could just put them in the engine room to cook. I >advised her that if it was warm enough to cook potatoes in there, we might >not be eating dinner that night because we would be too busy fighting the >fire. Snip>> I have on several occasions cooked hot dogs and heated canned foods like stew or ravioli on the diesels. Potatoes will work too. I just wrapped them in Aluminum foil and rested them between the intake blower and the value covers. Neither the intakes or the exhaust get as hot as glowing charcoal, so allow a little more time than you do on the barbecue. Make sure you open cans so they don't burst. I would guess a two hour cruise should give you a great baked potato. Skooch Hatteras 42 LRC Palm Beach - Under Repairs David Stahl ************************************************************** Kennett Internet Services, 112 S. Union Street, Kennett Square, PA 19348 610-444-9008 Visit our web site at http://www.kennett.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:46:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Symula Subject: TWL: shower sumps Im getting tired of my shower sump spilling more water into my bilge than pumping over board. So time to do somethign about it. My setup is kind of strange. the shower has a several gallon plastic container that cathes the water and funnels it through a hose. this part is ok. the hose leads into a very small hard plastic box. the box contains a small pump of sorts coontrolled by a float switch located also inside the box. Also attached to the box is an outlet hose. the entire thing is not more than 6 in long and 4-5 in high. The box is just kind of half assed rigged above the bilge on what looks like a spare refrigerator rack. (the plastic ones used to create shelves.) Its really just placed there and is free to move as it pleases. The box is also open and can and DOES spill water out at every opportunity. Now the questions: Does the setup I described above sound typical? Im guessing no. What do some of you out there have? Suggestions on improvement? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:57:23 -0400 From: "Terry Talling" Subject: TWL: RE: AC FWIW, the latest issue of PassageMaker has a news blurb on the Gensys AC alternator (4kW/280 Amps @12 volt) "which can power an air conditioner or other electrical appliances using only the vessel's propulsion engine." "To enjoy the Gensys' full potential, a 3,000-watt inverter is also needed." Apparently a Geman product distributed in the U.S by Lauderdale Diesel International: www.laudiesel.com It doesn't sound too bad - supposedly only puts a 7-hp load on the engine - all for $2,595. Terry Talling Monk 36 - Scoop ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:54:06 EDT From: LRZeitlin@aol.com Subject: TWL: Re: Waste heat recovery In a message dated 6/20/01 4:03:25 AM, Mikewrites: << can anyone think of a waste heat recovery system that would provide a useful benefit to boaters? >> How about using it to heat hot water? Nah. Too simple. No one would ever take the idea seriously. Larry Zeitlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:59:56 EDT From: LRZeitlin@aol.com Subject: TWL: Re: Manifold cooking In a message dated 6/20/01 4:03:25 AM, Rick writes: << I have heard about cooking on the exhaust manifold of a car. >> This used to be accepted practice for indigent college students on Spring break trips. Be sure to punch a hole in can lids before heating on the manifold. You probably don't want to hear how I know this - just use your imagination. Larry Zeitlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:47:21 -0700 From: "Kurt Volk" Subject: TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? Why not choose a beautiful Trumpy, Stephens, Huckins or other older wood classic as the ultimate cruising boat? This question may be part fantasy or part silly, but it is also serious. There are some gorgeous, even flawless, classic wooden boats on the market and they often sell at bargain prices. The cost difference between a 60 foot Trumpy and a same size new boat would pay for a lot of boatyard maintenance! I do understand that maintenance is a big issue. Still, I'm wondering whether the extended cruising/livaboard lifestyle enjoyed by Trawler World subscribers adds weight to the "go with classic wood" argument or detracts from it. That is, if you are going to use the boat a lot, ( i.e. for extended cruising) does the lower initial purchase price and the opportunity to keep up with daily maintenance start to outweigh the higher initial price and presumed lower maintenance of a new boat? My queston puts aside the issue of crossing oceans and also assumes that we are discussing a well built wooden craft in superior condition. The query is this: If the goal is coastal cruising from Nova Scotia to the Bahamas, are there economic arguments to support traveling in the graceful elegance of an ol' classic motoryacht? Arguments for and against are equally welcome! Kurt Volk M/V Serenade Branford, CT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:50:54 -0400 From: "Tom Little" <2kalani@home.com> Subject: TWL: Re: shower sumps Our shower drain hose is connected directly to an old fashioned Par diaphram pump. This pump will handle some trash. The pump discharge hose goes through a vented loop overboard. After some water accumlates in the shower basin, a manual switch is used to turn the pump on. We tell our guests that if the pump has to be turned on prior to the shower completion, they are using too much water. Tom Little Defever 49PH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:13:31 EDT From: DDW1668@aol.com Subject: Re: TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? I spent a week in May tied up next to a Trumpy of about 64' at Palmer Johnson in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin. The amount of money that is required to maintain such a yacht in such a condition can only be conjectured. Having owned several wooden boats over the years, I can truthfully say that "never again" means NEVER AGAIN! Dan Weaver M/V Propper Lady 40' Trojan lying Sturgeon Bay, WI www.perfectprops.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:17:21 -0400 From: Joe DellaFera Subject: Re: TWL: shower sumps At 08:46 AM 06/20/2001 -0700, Dan Symula wrote: >Im getting tired of my shower sump spilling more water >into my bilge than pumping over board. So time to do >somethign about it. > >My setup is kind of strange. the shower has a several >gallon plastic container that cathes the water and >funnels it through a hose. this part is ok. the hose >leads into a very small hard plastic box. the box >contains a small pump of sorts coontrolled by a float >switch located also inside the box. Also attached to >the box is an outlet hose. the entire thing is not >more than 6 in long and 4-5 in high. > >The box is just kind of half assed rigged above the >bilge on what looks like a spare refrigerator rack. >(the plastic ones used to create shelves.) Its really >just placed there and is free to move as it pleases. > >The box is also open and can and DOES spill water out >at every opportunity. > >Now the questions: Does the setup I described above >sound typical? Im guessing no. > >What do some of you out there have? >Suggestions on improvement? > >Dan >37 Roughwater Dan: Our boat shower uses a diaphram type pump to get rid of used shower water. The pump is controlled by a switch located in the shower area. when turned on, it pumps out any water in the tub. If it is not turned on the water stays in the tub, (take a bath). A light near the switch reminds us when the pump is on...jd Joe DellaFera / Margaret Murray 36' Prairie DC "Prairie Star" Pompano Beach, Fl. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:56:14 -0700 From: "Hal Wyman" Subject: TWL: RE: Waste Heat Recovery > > > Sure, Mike. Most Navy ships I ride today and the one I > commanded 25 years ago (Cat D399s as power) have waste heat > evaporators to make potable water. I'll be it wouldn't take > a rocket scientist like yourself long to come up with a > workable an simple design for trawler crawlers. > > Rich Gano The problem is that the temperature of waste heat is way too low to evaporate water. Commercial systems that I am familiar with use a vacuum pump to lower the boiling point of sea water to a temperature below that of the waste heat. Hal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:11:21 EDT From: DDW1668@aol.com Subject: TWL: Electronic AC and heat controls I bought two digital electronic controllers for my 1975 vintage Cruisairs three years ago from a company called Micro Air. They are working well and I would like some for my 1981 Trojan with two Cruisairs. The only beef I have is the difficulty of matching up the wiring which is NOT color coded and plug and play as I was told back then. Anyone have experience with this or a different retrofit for the old manual controls on Cruisairs? Dan Weaver M/V Propper Lady freonless in Sturgeon Bay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:33:37 -0700 From: "Randy Boelsems" Subject: TWL: Manifold Cooking Rick, We have tried manifold cooking and have the following observations: The temperature on our exhaust manifold must be to low so we use "slow" cooking type recipes similar to "Crock pot" recipes but without as much fluid. Since we moved up to a 17 knot boat our typical run to Catalina is only 2 hours and is not enough time to cook completely so we add an hour in the oven at 350 deg. You need 4 to 6 hours on the manifold for it to cook completely. It is hard to over cook, it just gets more tender. With our trawler, the trip to Catalina took 4 hours and the veggies were a little crunchy but it was still a good meal. We use the Reynolds Aluminum bags that can be purchased at the supermarket. We double bag them, but still recommend a foil type pan underneath it. We used a wire coat hanger to hold it in place. (We usually do not keep them on board so the coat hanger was hard to find) Good quality meat helps, especially if the cooking time is to short. Some recopies suggest browning the meat first, but not always necessary. Fresh vegetables, carrots, potatoes, an onion, some spices, a little flour, a little red wine helped a lot (both in the bag and at the table). Good luck. Randy Boelsems GECKO GECKO 1992 Euphorie 40ft. Power Cat Huntington Beach, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:36:22 -0400 From: "John Gaquin" Subject: TWL: Re: shower sumps From: Dan Symula > Im getting tired of my shower sump spilling > What do some of you out there have? Dan.... Our shower drains through a 5/8 hose into a sump of about 2 gal or so, with an integral strainer to catch hair, etc. Mounted in the sump is a small bilge pump/float switch assy (~ 300gph) which exhausts overboard. It's basically the generic unit sold through WM or BUS, and works just fine. If you choose this route, I would suggest two mods (both on the list for this summer on the Queen). 1) enlarge the drain line to 1" or 1-1/4". 5/8" is a little too slow, and after a few minutes, the shower pan starts to fill up. 2) Install an Off-Man-Auto switch on the system. This will enable you to manually pump out the half full sump that always remains after a shower, thus avoiding odor buildup. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:55:35 -0500 From: william e hunnicutt Subject: TWL: Sassafras on the move again Hello folks After two weeks in Biloxi we were ready to continue or cruise but a girl called Allison had other plans. She spun merrily round and round over Texas and Louisiana while I tried to decide if I moved would she and chase me down or would she stay put. I decided to wait........................and I waited and waited. Finally she came our way she snuck in under cover of darkness about 1:30am I awoke to thunder and went back to sleep. I was wide a wake at 5:30am reading 50mph wind steady, on the weather monitor. The water started coming up the tide was almost in. We adjusted our lines about an hour later as the water was over the piers and wharf filling the parking lot. I didn't relish the thought of parking the boat there. Everything stayed put as the tide started out and the water receded that evening. We extended our stay a little longer as we waited for Allison to finally move northeast and calmer weather to cover Mississippi sound. We left Biloxi, Davis bayou on the 16'th. We had been there almost a month. I had a haul out date for the 19'th at Snug Harbor marina/boatyard Panama City FL. We had 2 1/2 seas on the beam except in the passes where they were about 3 31/2 not the most comfortable way to pass the day. But better than sitting at a desk. Sassafras cruised to Dog River and tied up again at Grand Mariner marina. We met some locals in a beautiful 1959 wooden25ft cabin cruiser called Tehlulah. It reminded me of some of my dads old boats. Not being one to turn down a boat ride we took a memorable moonlight cruise later that night. The next morning we cruised on to Big Lagoon' Pensacola FL. This is an excellent place to anchor and enjoy the beaches. I thought I heard Bob Austins Thataway hailing another vessel on the VHF but was unsure if I remembered the name right. I roused the crew (well really just my wife. teenage beauty Queen daughters are best left alone in the early A.M.) and cruised on to Joes Bayou Destin FL. This anchorage is discussed in Youngs guide and is indeed a good and well protected one (except for north winds)........but be aware in the summer time this a local water ski hot spot. They go round an round and have a how close can we come to the anchored trawler contest. So plan to arrive late in the day or be prepared to ride it out. I have anchored in the two bayous across the bay from this spot and they are good also but they require a 5 to 7 mile side trip from the intercostal. Leaving after a very calm night without a ripple on the bayou we cruised choctawatchee bay with 10 kts on the nose. A little choppy as they were about 1/2 second apart but hardly noticeable on the nose. I did notice that it dosent take much sea on the nose to come over the rail. We arrived in Panama City and tied to the dock at Snug Harbor. We prepared the boat for haul out and she's now on stands awaiting a re pitched prop and a little TLC. We intend to head on down to carrabell next week. P.S. fuel in mobile at dog river marinas $1.40, Biloxi $1.14, Big lagoon rod and reel marina $1.30 Bill H, 36 MT SASSAFRAS billhunnicutt@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:36:14 EDT From: Mrmoo5@aol.com Subject: Re: TWL: shower sumps I had the same situation only worse as the shower sump was located underneath the house battery box. I junked the shower sump box and routed the shower drain hose directly into the hull sump where the shower water is pumped overboard by the bilge pump. Problem solved. Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:31:29 -0400 From: Jim Alexander Subject: Re: TWL: shower sumps Well, after reading a couple of the respopnses to this problem, I have decided to interject my thoughts and experience on the subject, limited as it is. I first of all disagree with the last response which suggested draining the shower sump directly into the bilge. This can only result in soap scum, hair and all sorts of nasty stuff getting into the bilge where it will only lead to problems of both mess and odor. On my prvious boat I had two shower sump boxes that I would guess were similar to the ones decribed by the originating message. Both contained small pumps actuated by a float switch. My guess as to why one of these would fail to remove the water adequately and as a result "overflow" would be caused by either a failure of the switch or pump, or be as the result of being clogged by the aforementioned scum and hair build-up. I did find it necessary to clean out these sump boxes every few months in order to keep them operating at peak efficiency. Each of my boxes had a small screen placed between the inflow area and the pump to catch any debris and this screen could rapidly become clogged. I would imagine that on a vessel that is being used as a live aboard, this could happen rather quickly as showers are being taken on a daily basis. Of course another point of consideration is the installation and the resultant length of hose run to the discharge site. If the run is excessive, it might be beyond the capability of the pump to push an adequate water flow out quick enough to keep the box level below the top, a larger capacity pump could be the answer here. Obviously a kinked hose could also be a problem. Another prolbem could result if a check-valve has been place into the discharge line. Check valves can become fowled and then fail to fully open, restricting the outflow of the box. This could be another reason for the box overflowing. Jim Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:46:24 EDT From: Rollsdoc@aol.com Subject: Re: TWL: shower sumps In a message dated 6/20/01 11:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, adventuresoul@yahoo.com writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> Rollsdoc has a 20 Gal fiberglass box (grey water tank) that has an openning in the top into which the showers drain. Through this opening we have a plastic pipe that goes to the bottom of the tank. Mounted atop the tank we have a Whale gusher pump.In the bottom of the tank is a float switch No strainers to plug up. The diaphram lasts about 1 year. We have had other pumps that needed maintenance once a month, but this one works. Rodger Wrona Rollsdoc MT49PH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:15:02 -0700 From: Joe Engel Subject: TWL: RE: shower sumps Hi Dan: The shower sump setup you describe is pretty common to many recreational vessels. The small plastic box, with a level switch and a pump, is an off-the-shelf unit. I think they are made by Lewellyn but not sure. Generally this setup works pretty good. Occasionally (every few years) there might be a need to clean out the plastic box because of built up soap scum, hair, etc. The part I don't understand is the "the box is also open an does spill water out at every opportunity." My recollection is that these units are pretty well sealed up. Seems that they have a whole lot of screws holding the top cover on the box. If plastic box didn't leak, it would work OK for you, right? Maybe yours is missing a piece? Joe Engel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:22:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Symula Subject: Re: TWL: RE: shower sumps Good call Joe. Im going to inspect it tonight and look for screw holes in the top where a lid might once have been attached. My other situation is the mounting of it though. It can easily turn sideways is what I was trying to get at. Im going ot have to put some thought into it if I keep it. Not sure yet. Have gotten great posts from everyone. Thanks all. Dan - --- Joe Engel wrote: > Hi Dan: > > The shower sump setup you describe is pretty common > to many recreational > vessels. The small plastic box, with a level switch > and a pump, is an > off-the-shelf unit. I think they are made by > Lewellyn but not sure. > Generally this setup works pretty good. > Occasionally (every few years) > there might be a need to clean out the plastic box > because of built up soap > scum, hair, etc. > > The part I don't understand is the "the box is also > open an does spill water > out at every opportunity." My recollection is that > these units are pretty > well sealed up. Seems that they have a whole lot of > screws holding the top > cover on the box. If plastic box didn't leak, it > would work OK for you, > right? Maybe yours is missing a piece? > > Joe Engel ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:45:26 -0400 From: Donald Jardine Subject: TWL: Re: Waste Heat Recovery Ref comments by Alex Hirsekorn : I agree that watermaking and refrigeration are top items. Dometic and Electrolux make small absorption reefers. There is no reason why they shouldn't be used in boats. They have been in Europe for many years. However, some marine insurance companies balk at the usual open-flame kerosene or propane powered absorption reefers. Using waste heat obviates that. Power consumption at 12v tends to be higher than for conventional compressor reefers.See http://www.otal.umd.edu/~vg/amst205.F97/vj09/project5.html It seems to me that a waste-heat driven reefer is not likely to be cheaper than the ordinary electric one. The capital cost is similar, and the waste-heat piping is additional. It can use waste heat only when an engine is running, at which time there is lots of electrical power. It's hard to store waste heat on small boats (a tank of hot water would be the simplest way). Storing electricity is easy, efficient, and cheap. I think there is a different argument for water distillation using waste heat. R/O units are complex, expensive and require regular maintenance. They do not cope with intermittent use very well either. But, the main drawback to R/O for small boats is the capital cost, especially if professionally installed. A vacuum distillation unit requires a vacuum to lower the boiling temperature of seawater, a raw-water cooling pump to condense the vapor, a boiler, a condenser, and some piping and gauges. The vacuum can be created by a water injector using the condenser cooling water. None of these is high-tech. I believe that a water distillation unit should be scalable, that is, it could be produced in a wide range of sizes, at a roughly proportionate cost. There seems to be no small units available; at least, they don't appear on the Web. - -- Donald A. Jardine Kingston ON, CANADA "NANUK" Oceania 36 Sedan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:01:31 -0500 From: Charles Culotta Subject: TWL: Re: shower sumps/mounting Dan, I was faced with mounting the "brains" of the auto pilot in a very awkward place to drive the two screws. Eureka!!! I used a big glob of silicon ---that was sometime in the summer of 1987 and it is still there. CCC Dan Symula wrote: > My other situation is the mounting of it though. Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:31:54 -0400 From: "M. Kenneth McQuage" Subject: TWL: Chesapeake - Land of Pleasant Living ^From the Chesapeake - Land of Pleasant Living RED ALERTS for dangerous air quality -have been issued both yesterday and today for Baltimore and the upper Chesapeake Region -- ( and it ain't even July or August yet) The ER's are doing a thriving business with people who can't breathe .. Maybe it has something to do with Congress being back in session ! Also Beth Steel has agreed to " voluntarily reduce " the 87 Million Tons of arsenic and other pollutants that they dump into the Bay each year - sometime soon -- maybe ! Enjoy your swim ! Ken Environmental Wacko ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:03:15 -0400 From: "ronald barr" Subject: TWL: RE:Batteries Reference Mike Schooley's remarks - these don't seem to hold up when considering such batteries as Rolls new 8-D replacement series which although expensive can be replaced cell by cell and include Hydrocaps which certainly limit gassing and reduce maintenance to 1 or 2 times per year. They also have their own CG approved battery boxes. Ron Barr Hatteras LRC 42 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:31:44 -0400 From: lynn love Subject: TWL: Lehman vs Cummins I am currently comparing two 34' Marine Traders to consider making a purchase. One is equipped with a 210 cummins turbo(1990) and the other boat is the 135 lehman(1991). It is my understanding that the 210 was an upgrade for this model. My question is: which of these engines is the more desirable? I have some reservations about a turbo. Is this justified? I have never heard any bad comments about the Lehman and was seeking input from those who know. btw...the lehman has about 950 hours and the cummins has about 1800 hours. Thanks Lynn -Tampa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:12:48 -0400 From: "Brian J. Hall" Subject: TWL: Re: Re: RE: Coolant Reservoir >Brian, it is my understanding that you DO indeed need to replace the >expansion tank filler neck on the Lehman engine when adding the recovery >bottle Rich, My cap is allowing the anti-freeze to belch out and then be sucked back into the reservoir. Maybe the rubber gasket is tired and allowing this to work well in spite of itself? Another Lehman 120 owner removed the (lower rubber cap gasket ?) to allow two-way communication between the expansion tank and the coolant reservoir. Try adding the tank and if the coolant does not return back to the expansion tank then fiddle with the lower gasket, if this does not work buy Bob's updated filler neck. The new neck is well made and you just glue it in with Marine Tex , etc. Brian . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:21:46 -0400 From: "Brian J. Hall" Subject: TWL: Re: Lehman vs Cummins Both great engines! But do you want or need a turbo? The Lehman is a poor man's Gardner and the perfect engine for a boat of your class. The Lehman is simple, over-built and at 950 hours not even broken in! A hard call as they are both super engines. Brian Hall CHB 45 "Any Sea" Baltimore ------------------------------ End of trawler-world-list V4 #354 ********************************* From rwhb@email.msn.com Thu Jun 21 10:16:17 2001 From: rwhb@email.msn.com (ronald barr) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:16:17 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Trumpy for Trawler In-Reply-To: <20010621040013.B00DB26246@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: I've had fiberglass, steel, wood and cold moulded boats over the years and my favorite (so far) was a 1938 S&S Cruisailer - a 41ft on deck motor sailer. I sailed her about 50,000 miles from Newfoundland to Venezuela and Panama including a couple of transatlantics. She arrived in my ownership aged 35 and in mint condition from a loving obsessive prior owner - and I think that is the key. She also gave me the least trouble. True you had to paint her and I was young enough to spend days in the do-it-yourself shipyard sanding and painting myself, but she was beautiful and very reliable. Ron Barr Hatteras 42 LRC From cculotta@iamerica.net Thu Jun 21 10:30:51 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:30:51 -0500 Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010620212815.00b63af0@shell14.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3B32051B.6361C85B@iamerica.net> Richard Morrison wrote: > I find that our previously level boat is > now has its bow about 4"-5" higher. > So my > thoughts have turned to possibly adding some lead weight in the bow to > bring it back down. I'm looking for some advice here: > > 1) How does one go about securing bars of lead to the hull? The way I did it was with a number of tubes of plain old silicon.They can't move and have not in years!!! Just glob it on like gorilla snot and set the bars in it. > > 2) Where do I go to get lead bars? Went to a tire store and pur the used balancing weights cheap. Made a mold fr. a piece of scrape angle iron by welding a short piece of steel on ea. end which also holds the angle up. Melted the lead on a propane crawfish burner and poured it into the mold. We fished the small steel clips out with tongs. All in all the ingots came out exceptionally nice. > A foundry? Well , we did our own!! CCC -- Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From rwhb@email.msn.com Thu Jun 21 11:00:57 2001 From: rwhb@email.msn.com (ronald barr) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:00:57 -0400 Subject: TWL: underwater work In-Reply-To: <20010616040012.6B02826249@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: Some time ago I saw fairly simple floating electrical pumps that would supply air down a few feet so that you could work under the boat in the water - does anyone know who makes these - or any other creative solutions for freeing props, and scrubbing bottoms without having to get a SCUBA tank (or holding your breath!)? Ron Barr Hatteras LRC 42 From flyjbaker624@aol.com Thu Jun 21 11:13:05 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:13:05 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: shower sumps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/20/2001 6:22:49 PM Central Daylight Time, adventuresoul@yahoo.com writes: << Im going ot have to put some thought into it if I keep it. >> Dan, One of the challenges and rewards of messing about in boats. Good Luck, John From flyjbaker624@aol.com Thu Jun 21 11:23:08 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:23:08 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: Lehman vs Cummins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would have to agree with Brian. It is pretty much a wash. The only difference is the power. The MT is probably a semi-displacement and the extra power will probably get you extra speed(with the extra fuel consumption of course). If you are pretty set on this boat, the extra speed is a nice luxury. Good Luck and Trawler on, John From doughoople@earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 03:47:50 2001 From: doughoople@earthlink.net (Doug Hoople) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:47:50 +0100 Subject: TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? In-Reply-To: <071e01c0f9c1$d3519f40$a564343f@kvolk> Message-ID: <3B31A6A6.BE141A71@earthlink.net> Kurt, My wife and I currently own Bomar, a 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY, a beautiful boat that's been maintained well throughout its lifetime. During its life, it's been south to Southern California and north to British Columbia, and that's been within the last 10 years, so the kind of thing you're talking about is not unreasonable. A wood boat is a dream in some ways. Wood's got properties that are very difficult to reproduce in FRP, steel or aluminum. After wintering once on a solid FRP boat, it was a dry pleasure to winter on Bomar. One big reliability caveat: if you're planning on re-arranging your furniture a lot underway, avoid an old wooden boat. The kind of flexing you undergo underway in a short steep chop will radically accelerate your time to refastening. It's like taking off your zincs in a 'hot' marina, you just can't even fathom how fast the stresses work. That said, you should also have a plan for sea screens for the big windows you see on a lot of these beautiful boats. The way to cruise on one of these beauties is to work your weatherfax to the max. The guy who had Bomar up to British Columbia was faithful about this, took short hops, and ALWAYS waited out any doubtful situation. I've heard several other stories of big-wood-boat owners who've been taken by surprise in places like Pt. Conception, survived to tell the tale, got home, parked the boat and never moved it again. So, in essence, they're more delicate than a bullteproof FRP trawler, but they're still decent, seaworthy coastal cruising boats, given a modicum of good, careful seamanship. If you're looking for cheap, buy fiberglass. You'll acquire a woodie cheap, but you'll start making up the difference the first time you're in the yard. Wood boat repairs are ruinously expensive, and you can't not do them. It takes a special person to keep a wood boat. If you're that kind of person, then there's nothing like it. But if you're not that kind of person, watch out, 'cause there's nothing like it. BTW, I noticed you're from Branford. Great home base for cruising, as I recall from the last time I cruised past (1981, unfortunately). Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Thu Jun 21 11:53:07 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: shower sumps and electrical connections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010621155307.89386.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Its an "attwood". Sold at West marine comes with a lid. Looks like my lid is long since vanished. One of the things prompting me on this is a wire came off due to its precarious placement. Why one might ask would placement have anythign to do with wires? The hot wire goign in was capped with a wire nut, then about 7 inches down it was crimped together with some kind of electical connector (non marine or course). Inside the box, two more connectors, both wire nuts. Neg wire also has wire nuts. So I was thinking scrap this crazy jerry rig and do it right. Now Im thinkgin just scrap the jerry rigged wires, mount correctly, and re wire. The sump overflowed the other night, looked down and there sat the hot wire, in the bilge, in the water. Connection had worked loose. Which reminds me I wanted to ask. The hot wire in the bilge in the water is really really bad I know. I heard thigns about disintegrating sea cocks and such. How quickly does this happen? Does the water need to be in contact with the seacock? Or, can the current flow from the water through the figerglass to elsewhere? This was at most 20 hours, as I used ti the night before and it was ok. I also had vacummed the water out two days earlier. SO I think it was dry until a few minutes before i found it. ???? Dan Symula 37 Rough-rigged "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 21 11:53:25 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:53:25 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010620212815.00b63af0@shell14.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <002701c0fa6a$51e7d880$baee4e0c@KennethMcQuage> > 1) How does one go about securing bars of lead to the hull? > 2) Where do I go to get lead bars? A foundry? > 3) Is this not a good thing to do since as we use up fuel/water the bow > will then go slightly lower than before -- any performance issues? I guess Hi Richard Lead is pretty cheap - even free if you collect used tire weights from tire shop .. Remove the steel holders from the lead itself if you can / want to - it will rust if exposed to atmosphere -- Bed the whole kaboodle in epoxy cement grout ... Lead and steel . For years used boiler punchings as ballast in sailboats - which are steel - were used - embeded in only cement - they were cheap if not free - but quite dirty and contaminated with oil . The worst of the oil was drawn off by running some kerosene through the 55 gal drum the punchings usually came in ... So the material does not have to be real clean to start with . Collecting a few 5 gal pails of used weights can be done quite uickly - placing a couple of empty buckets in the bow will allow you to add the weights in approx position until you arrive at about the weight that you need . We did this a few years ago on a friends Ocean using a combination of lead weights and lead shot - merely because we already had the led shot -- and it has worked out very well ... All the Best Ken From georgs@trawlerworld.com Thu Jun 21 12:04:24 2001 From: georgs@trawlerworld.com (Georgs Kolesnikovs) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:04:24 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Starship completes its millenium voyage In-Reply-To: <000f01c0fa5c$52a08280$a9eaf918@CC890211A> Message-ID: >That URL doesn't work for me. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Georgs Kolesnikovs" >> >Please see details at http:///www.ms-starship.com >> > >> >Michael Poliza There is an extra slash in the URL provided by Starship's captain. The correct URL is . --Georgs From Mrmoo5@aol.com Thu Jun 21 12:44:40 2001 From: Mrmoo5@aol.com (Mrmoo5@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:44:40 EDT Subject: TWL: Fluorescent Light Message-ID: I bought a Thin-Lite flourescent fixture from West Marine yesterday. Upon installing the unit, I discovered that the leads from the unit were solid conductors not stranded. I thought that was peculiar but went ahead and wired it up. Do you Sparkies out there think I bought a bummer? Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 21 13:08:19 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:08:19 -0700 Subject: TWL: Lehman heritage Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F79@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Our 1973 trawler is fitted a pair of 120 hp Ford Lehman diesels. >Fromeverything I've been told, when properly operated and maintained, these engines should go many thousands of hours trouble-free other than ancillary devices like water pumps, heat exchangers, etc. which need periodic repair or replacement. I know there are newer Lehman engines of higher horsepower, some with turbochargers. In fact, I believe engines with the Lehman label were used through the early 1990s. Are all the engines referred to as Lehman's based on the same Ford engine, the six-cylinder diesel manufactured in the UK and sometimes referred to as the "Dorset" diesel? Or are the later, higher horsepower models based on a different engine than the earlier 120 hp Ford Lehman? ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From jalexander@ticz.com Thu Jun 21 12:20:59 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:20:59 -0400 Subject: TWL: Lehman heritage Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010621122059.007c02b0@pop.ticz.com> " Are all the engines referred to as Lehman's based on the same Ford engine, the six-cylinder diesel manufactured in the UK and sometimes referred to as the "Dorset" diesel? " Can't speak with any authority about the above statement, however my former boat, a Whitby 42 Ketch, was powered by a 4 cyl Lehman of 80HP. It was a very reliable power source and in my opinion, with reasonable care, was "bullet-proof"! Jim Alexander From jschroeder1@uswest.net Thu Jun 21 13:08:01 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:08:01 -0700 Subject: TWL: A Trumpy for a Trawler? In-Reply-To: <3B31A6A6.BE141A71@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > > The way to cruise on one of these beauties is to work your > weatherfax to the max. The guy who had Bomar up to British Columbia was faithful > about this, took short hops, and ALWAYS waited out any doubtful situation. I just finished a cruise from Seattle to Nanaimo. We had planned on going on to Princess Louisa Inlet, but chickened out in the face of a lumpy Straits of Georgia. But, we had a grand time. I learned one other important bit of weather info. On the return trip we had planned on leaving Friday Harbor early Saturday AM and crossing a tranquill Straits of Juan de Fuca. Friday night's weather report indicated low winds and calm seas. HA! I should have listened to the Saturday morn report. Very lumpy seas on the straits. Strong winds out of no where. We gave up on the straits and went east thru Deception pass with the wind and our tail between our legs. Then we headed south down Saratoga Passage twixt Whidbey and the mainland. I'm convinced that the most valuable tool in a boatman's arsenal is cowardice. > > If you're looking for cheap, buy fiberglass. You'll acquire a > woodie cheap, but you'll start making up the difference the first time you're in > the yard. Wood boat repairs are ruinously expensive, and you can't not do them. While up in Canada, I noticed many yachtified wooden fishing trollers, and a lot of wood fishing boats for sale. The Canadian government is apparently buying out fishing licenses leaving ex-fishermen with a "useless" boat. Some of these boats are extremely well done, in good shape and dirt cheap. If I were 30 or 40 years old and had a willing spouse, I'd snap one up. I'm convinced that a fishing troller (not a trawler) makes a far better yacht than boat show plastic bimbo behemoth. A friend calls them double wides with a pointy end. If I had the skills, time and energy, converting a fishing boat would be the way to go. George Buehler even wrote a book on the subject "The Troller Yacht." A few months ago I ran across a newly retired couple who had bought a 37 foot Canadian troller. They took it to Anacortes Wa, rebuilt the engine, redid the wiring, repainted fixed up the pilot house and added a cabin where the fish hold used to be. Gorgeous boat. They burned under 2 gallons of diesel an hour. Total cost includeing boat, and 6 months of personal work - $55K! I like fiberglass boats built on fishing boat lines. I'm fortunate in haveing one such, but I've seen very few on the market. Perhaps the best thing to do is find a small builder of fiberglass fishing boats, and convert one to a yacht. > > It takes a special person to keep a wood boat. If you're that > kind of person, then there's nothing like it. But if you're not that kind of > person, watch out, 'cause there's nothing like it. I love wooden boats, but I also love cruising. I've come to the reluctant conclusion that the time spent on wood maintainence must come out of cruising time. If you love working with wood, this is the way to go. Regretably I'm more interested in cruising than woodworking, hence my decision to go fiberglass. Jerry Schroeder M/V Surprise 21' Ranger R21 Ballard, WA From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 21 13:48:04 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:48:04 EDT Subject: TWL: Lehman heritage Message-ID: I confirm what Jim Alexander says about a 4cyl Ford Lehman--similar engine, just 4 instead of 6 cyl. There are some in used as twins in power boats--such as MT, CT, and Krogen 42's--as well as a very popular engine in sailboats up to at least 52 feet. Bob Austin From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 21 13:54:13 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:54:13 EDT Subject: TWL: Valuable tool Message-ID: <46.1685cd05.28638ec5@aol.com> Jerome A Schroder writes: ". I'm convinced that the most valuable tool in a boatman's arsenal is cowardice." Wrong Jerome--it is wisdom and prudence!--which you demonstrated. Bob Austin From pgslo@juno.com Thu Jun 21 11:06:55 2001 From: pgslo@juno.com (pgslo@juno.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:06:55 -0700 Subject: TWL: Be prepared In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010621.105651.-322021.1.pgslo@juno.com> On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 23:27:39 -0700 "Hal Wyman" writes: > > >As others have pointed out, if you plan to go out in the ocean > > in a yacht, > > >you had better be prepared for gales and worse. > > > > My comments apply to anyone just doing coastal passages. I agree > that those > crossing oceans are a small minority of this group. Although I am not an experienced world cruiser, I have had cruising experience in Maine, the Bahamas, Puget Sound, California Coast, and the South Pacific. I have enjoyed all the places I have cruised and would recommend them to everyone. However, I agree with Hal. Until you have had experience with conditions other than the ICW or Bahamas, you really don't know how bad the conditions can get out there .......even along the coast........even with the best of planning. Back in the '60's, I was fortunate to be able to cruise from the Tongatapu group to the Vava'u group in the South Pacific, a distance of about 300 miles, with Capt Tevita Fifita aboard his 40 foot sailboat. On that trip, the seas were about 20 to 25 feet and the wind was estimated at about 50 knots. It was a real experience for me and the Secretary of the Navy in my household who was also along on the trip. It is still a vivid and hair raising memory for Eileen and I. Tevita Fifita is famous because earlier in his life he was ferrying the Tongan Rugby team from Tonga to Figi. They hit an uncharted submerged reef on their voyage. They were marooned on this reef for 6 months before being rescued. Tevita told me,the reef was submerged 2 to 3 feet under water at times. With much difficulty and hardship, everyone survived. There was a book written about the experience but I forget what it is called. Anyway the point is that one had better be prepared for gales and worse when you are "out there". The Bahamas are a wonderful cruising experience but there is more to world cruising than the Bahamas, even coastal cruising in other places. "Semper Preparator" Patrick WILLARD 40PH ,,`,, ALOHA Port San Luis From richard@richardmorrison.com Thu Jun 21 11:57:21 2001 From: richard@richardmorrison.com (Richard Morrison) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:57:21 -0500 Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: <54.163c8efe.28632b72@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010621104459.00b6f150@shell14.ba.best.com> Michael: Could you be a bit more specific about this slurry mixture? Similar to epoxy grout? At 06:50 AM 6/21/01 -0400, Awgertoo@aol.com wrote: > >the foundry). After stacking the pigs as carefully and close as possible >under the forepeak sole (thru an access hole cut between the floor timbers) >we made up a slurry of resin and concrete into which we mixed the punchings > Richard ------------------------- 49' Marine Trader Pilothouse (1978) SF Bay, CA From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 21 14:02:15 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:02:15 EDT Subject: TWL: What happened to Dennis and Boris on the 32' Nordic Tug? Message-ID: <12.e7ae88a.286390a7@aol.com> This was the chap whose last post was on April 24--heading out for Alaska via the inland passage, hence Gulf of Alaska--Aluetians--Berring Sea--Russia and to Calif by Sept. There has been no post for 8 weeks since he was "shoving off the next day". Anyone seen or heard of this adventure recently. Bob Austin From Thataway@aol.com Thu Jun 21 14:11:52 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:11:52 EDT Subject: TWL: Starship completes its millenium voyage Message-ID: Certainly the sponsors and crew are to be congratulated on their voyage and a wonderful web site. However the vessel did not make a circumnavigation--as defined by crossing your outward bound track. The Voyage orignated in British Columbia and Terminated in Germany. The area that was not crossed was the Atlantic Ocean--in fact the nearest the outbound track came to the inbound track was the distance from Brazil to the Cape Verde Islands--or there about--slightly over 2500 miles. This does not diminish the accomplishments--but the web site billed this as a circumnavigation. Regards, Bob Austin From jim_donohue@computer.org Thu Jun 21 14:57:55 2001 From: jim_donohue@computer.org (Jim Donohue) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:57:55 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Fluorescent Light In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Should be OK. I would keep the run reasonably short and go to stranded. Make sure the wires are pretty well constrained - the failure mode is fatigue at connectors or places where the wire is free to wiggle against a constrained piece. In general losing a fluorescent is not a huge problem. Jim Do you Sparkies out there think I bought a bummer? > > Ralph Salerno > M/V ANCORA > From Joe@JRE.com Thu Jun 21 15:09:05 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:09:05 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: Fluorescent Light Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4B5@WINNTSRV> The only bummer about fluorescent lights is that they are so harsh (I really hate their color in a boat) and they can cause lots of RF interference with electronics (even the low RF versions). But your wiring is just fine. Joe. From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Thu Jun 21 15:49:13 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:49:13 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: underwater work Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A340BA@BCMAIL1> They are called "Hookahs" by most divers. Many dive shops either have them or can order them in. Several brands are available. One name that comes to mind is Browns - saw it in Ft. Lauderdale dive shop. Arild -----Original Message----- From: ronald barr [mailto:rwhb@email.msn.com] Subject: TWL: underwater work Some time ago I saw fairly simple floating electrical pumps that would supply air down a few feet so that you could work under the boat in the water - does anyone know who makes these - or any other creative solutions for freeing props, and scrubbing bottoms without having to get a SCUBA tank (or holding your breath!)? Ron Barr Hatteras LRC 42 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From jkenyon@ssc.wisc.edu Thu Jun 21 16:13:50 2001 From: jkenyon@ssc.wisc.edu (Jeff L. Kenyon) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:13:50 -0500 Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: <3B31ED33.919724FA@airmail.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010621151350.007ddab0@facstaff.wisc.edu> Keith and all - My boat also has the open shower sumps. There is a breaker on the electrical panel for the shower sump pump and then a switch in each head for that same sump. Your comment about forgetting to turn the pump on prompted me to ask this question. Why are there switches in each head (or in either head for that matter). The switches do not actually turn the pump on (the float switch does that) rather they just enable it. What's the reason? Thanks **************************************************************************** ***** At 07:48 AM 6/21/01 -0500, Keith wrote: >Dan: I have the same setup in my Krogen 42, although the only time it >ever overflows is if I forget to turn the pump on. <> **************************************************************************** ***** ****************************************** Jeff and Suzanne Kenyon Baloo (Krogen 42 - Hull Number 44) ****************************************** From rossflem@serv.net Thu Jun 21 16:58:53 2001 From: rossflem@serv.net (Ross Fleming) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:58:53 -0700 Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010621151350.007ddab0@facstaff.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:13:50 -0500, "Jeff L. Kenyon" wrote: >Your comment about forgetting to turn the pump on >prompted me to ask this question. Why are there switches in each head (or >in either head for that matter). On my boat I have a diaphragm pump plumbed directly to the shower drain. The switch to turn it on also turns on the light in the shower stall (actually a fairly waterproof Perko running light) so one doesn't forget to use it. If you elect to use a diaphragm pump check to see if there is a model similar to your fresh water pump or washdown pump (but without a pressure switch) so that you can carry a single set of spare parts. ---------------------------------------- Ross Fleming rossflem@serv.net S/V Renown Gulfstar 39 Seattle, Washington From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Thu Jun 21 17:02:14 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:02:14 -0700 Subject: TWL: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A340BF@BCMAIL1> This message showed up today Thursday at 2:00 PM but I saw several replies to this query on Wednesday. Do any of you have any idea of how this time warp came about? Lately I have noticed many list messages relating to some post that I have not seen, only to see that post show up later. Arild -----Original Message----- From: Mrmoo5@aol.com [mailto:Mrmoo5@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:45 AM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Fluorescent Light I bought a Thin-Lite flourescent fixture from West Marine yesterday. Upon installing the unit, I discovered that the leads from the unit were solid conductors not stranded. I thought that was peculiar but went ahead and wired it up. Do you Sparkies out there think I bought a bummer? Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Thu Jun 21 17:34:36 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:34:36 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: underwater work In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A340BA@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: > They are called "Hookahs" by most divers. > Many dive shops either have them or can order them in. Remember, you can still get bent or embolized using these devices. Just like a table saw, they can be good or evil, depending on the operator. Anyone using compressed air under water should be at least Open Water scuba certified! ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From Joe@JRE.com Thu Jun 21 17:39:58 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:39:58 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4B7@WINNTSRV> It's FM of course. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Arild Jensen [mailto:Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:02 PM To: 'Mrmoo5@aol.com'; trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) This message showed up today Thursday at 2:00 PM but I saw several replies to this query on Wednesday. Do any of you have any idea of how this time warp came about? Lately I have noticed many list messages relating to some post that I have not seen, only to see that post show up later. Arild -----Original Message----- From: Mrmoo5@aol.com [mailto:Mrmoo5@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:45 AM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Fluorescent Light I bought a Thin-Lite flourescent fixture from West Marine yesterday. Upon installing the unit, I discovered that the leads from the unit were solid conductors not stranded. I thought that was peculiar but went ahead and wired it up. Do you Sparkies out there think I bought a bummer? Ralph Salerno M/V ANCORA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From tmains@FlowersByDonna.com Thu Jun 21 18:09:48 2001 From: tmains@FlowersByDonna.com (Todd Mains) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:09:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: underwater work In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A340BA@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: -snip- They are called "Hookahs" by most divers. Many dive shops either have them or can order them in. Several brands are available. One name that comes to mind is Browns - saw it in Ft. Lauderdale dive shop. -snip- I think the one Arild is referring to is called "Brownie's Third Lung." (http://www.browniedive.com/) As a dive instructor, I agree with the other posting that you should get some training before taking the plunge. This is not scuba diving by definition, but it is theoretically possible to embolize in as little as four feet of water. Since I have scuba equipment, I have never used this product, but I understand through the industry that they make a quality product. Todd Mains M/V Pingino Portland, Oregon From cculotta@iamerica.net Thu Jun 21 18:24:49 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:24:49 -0500 Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: <3B31ED33.919724FA@airmail.net> Message-ID: <3B327431.D099B620@iamerica.net> Keith, I have a float switch in my gray water tank to help prevent that problem. As back up to that , I ran common garden hose fr a "thruhull" I put in the side of the tank , abt half way up. I ran the hose into the engine room to a spot where I sit to ck. the engines. If water is dripping from that hose , then the float switch or pump is not working. By the way, That pump and float switch is mounted on a piece of aluminum so that when it needs service, I just pick up the whold thing fr the tank and work on it. With all wires and the hose connected. Just like I have said about a friend of mine"s wife. " Fast , cheap and easy." CCC Keith wrote: > Dan: I have the same setup in my Krogen 42, although the only time it > ever overflows is if I forget to turn the pump on. Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From norm@dancris.com Thu Jun 21 19:40:52 2001 From: norm@dancris.com (Norm Clark) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:40:52 -0700 Subject: TWL: Batteries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B328604.55F6EB6A@dancris.com> OK - Just one more comment on this complex subject. I have my 40' trawler in the Sea of Cortez. It gets hot there, many times it's well over 100 degrees in the summer. The sea water can be above 90 degrees. My twin Volvos and generator generate a lot of heat. I can't even guess how hot it gets in the engine room. Those sophisticated batteries would not be comfortable down there. I think I could bake the spuds without placing them next to the manifold. Here is what I do. I go to a big battery outfit here in Phoenix and buy refurbished/rebuilt 8-Ds at $50 a pop. I always have a couple extra in covered boxes in the already somewhat crowded engine room and keep them charged with a separate inexpensive auto battery charger now and then, if they need it. I have just a pair of standard auto type battery jumper cables in case I need them. So far these refurbished 8-Ds have always lasted at least 3 years. Come to think of it, they never last much more than that either, but at least I always have a backup. Now I know, I'm not cruising the China Sea or Mullaca Straits, but there are no Wal-Marts that I know of on the Sea of Cortez. I have never had a problem. This works for me. Norm Surface Time 40' Nova From jim_donohue@computer.org Tue Jun 5 20:03:34 2001 From: jim_donohue@computer.org (Jim Donohue) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:03:34 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: underwater work In-Reply-To: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A340BA@BCMAIL1> Message-ID: Brownies are gas powered and float. They may make electric ones but I have not seen one. There are a couple of folks making simple electrical systems for dock usage or on board. These utilize various oil-less compressors and are commonly used by dock divers. Floating an electrical system could be done but that would be a hard task. I have used a brownie a couple of times and generally like the experience. The older I get the more I like the shallower water. > -----Original Message----- > They are called "Hookahs" by most divers. > Many dive shops either have them or can order them in. > Several brands are available. > One name that comes to mind is Browns - saw it in Ft. Lauderdale > dive shop. > Arild > -----Original Message----- > From: ronald barr [mailto:rwhb@email.msn.com] > Subject: TWL: underwater work > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 > > From jim_donohue@computer.org Tue Jun 5 20:13:48 2001 From: jim_donohue@computer.org (Jim Donohue) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:13:48 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4B7@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: Ah ha - and I just sent a private reply to Joe that probably got there last Tuesday. You know there has got to be a way to make money out of this - if we could only get the Cal Lotto numbers from next Sunday to appear tonight!! Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Joe Engel > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:40 PM > To: 'trawler-world-list@samurai.com' > Subject: TWL: RE: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) > > > > It's FM of course. > > Joe > From mdgoode@bwr.eastlink.ca Thu Jun 21 21:42:56 2001 From: mdgoode@bwr.eastlink.ca (M&D) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:42:56 -0400 Subject: TWL: : Remove Vinyl Letters and Figures In-Reply-To: <20010616040012.6B02826249@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <008401c0fabc$a9b3c360$df47de18@ibmam82895> Hi What worked for us in removing vinyl letters from gelcoat was heat gun (hair dryer would be useless - used the hotter setting of heat gun, but carefully) - warm up the plastic and then pull. Helps if you're ambidextrous and can heat and pull at the same time! All the lettering came off cleanly, just leaving the "ghost" which hopefully will fade soon. Hope this helps, Darby & Mike From Rollsdoc@aol.com Thu Jun 21 20:55:17 2001 From: Rollsdoc@aol.com (Rollsdoc@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:55:17 EDT Subject: TWL: shower sumps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <89.85da7b0.2863f175@aol.com> In a message dated 6/21/01 4:53:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rossflem@serv.net writes: << trawler-world-list@samurai.com >> Run of the mill water pumps are not the pumps to use. they can and will plug up with short and curlies. From DickVR@aol.com Thu Jun 21 21:25:25 2001 From: DickVR@aol.com (DickVR@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:25:25 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #348 Message-ID: In a message dated 6/15/01 12:04:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com writes: << www.terminaltown.com >> go with Plexi for alot less money ! One problem you will find with a "lexan" type product is unless you spend mega dollars the sheet is not UV resilent but plexi is although plexi is more breakab From DickVR@aol.com Thu Jun 21 21:35:28 2001 From: DickVR@aol.com (DickVR@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:35:28 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #348 Message-ID: <126.639a0f.2863fae0@aol.com> In a message dated 6/15/01 12:04:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com writes: Because both material are thermo plastics they shrink and expand with temp (aprox . 0625 per linear ft) so if you are drilling holes for fastening you must allow enough room for the material to shrink and expand over the span.i.e. overdrill your holes to allow for the expasion and use rubber washers to cover the void. Lexan that is UV resilient will cost far more than acrylic Plexi sheet (which is UV resistant) but if you need it for the impact strength go for it, Dick von Roth 46 GBclassic From ReidGantt@aol.com Thu Jun 21 21:46:36 2001 From: ReidGantt@aol.com (ReidGantt@aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:46:36 EDT Subject: TWL: underwater work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9c.fbfc086.2863fd7c@aol.com> In a message dated 6/21/01 11:01:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rwhb@email.msn.com writes: << Some time ago I saw fairly simple floating electrical pumps that would supply air down a few feet so that you could work under the boat in the water - does anyone know who makes these - or any other creative solutions for freeing props, and scrubbing bottoms without having to get a SCUBA tank (or holding your breath!)? >> I bought one of the 12 volt units from Chinook Medical Gear, Inc, 1-800-766-1365. It has a 30' air hose and mouthpiece. I use mine to check / change zincs, check for barnacles, etc. Works great! I am not a diver and was a little apprehensive at first, but a diver friend gave some instructions on breathing, etc. Reid Gantt Atlantic 30 LRC "Vouivre" Docked at Sneads Ferry, NC From cculotta@iamerica.net Thu Jun 21 22:07:34 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:07:34 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re:shower sumps In-Reply-To: <89.85da7b0.2863f175@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B32A866.BF2EFB66@iamerica.net> I did not mention that the pump in my greywater tank into which the shower drains has a small JABSCO submersible pump ( as I recall I think it is a 2000gph) with a std separate JABSCO float switch. That pump was on the boat when I pur it in 1985 and is still there. (Lived on board for 5 yrs too!!!) I am on the 3rd float switch.-- CCC Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From PRyker@Affinity.com Thu Jun 21 22:20:24 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:20:24 -0700 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B040F9@exchange.affinityla.com> I have just received the registration number for my boat and need to display it somehow. I would like to either hang a small white name board from each side of the bow rails with it on or place the numbers on the 2 deck boxes that sit on either side of the front deck near the bow. What is the preferred way of doing this? I live in Maryland and cruise the Chesapeake bay. I am not familiar with the rules for a 44' motor yacht. I have seen many boats without any numbers on them at all. I have read through the Maryland DNR web site and they seem to only reference rules for smaller boats. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks Phil From femyers@attglobal.net Thu Jun 21 23:21:08 2001 From: femyers@attglobal.net (Forrest Myers) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:21:08 -0500 Subject: TWL: RE: Fluorescent Light In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B32B9A3.B08E80E5@attglobal.net> I finally got fed up with all the RF hash from the fluorescent bulbs and removed all of them from Trident. Now the radio is nice and quiet and e-mail via HF radio works like a charm. -- Regards; Forrest Myers Aboard MV Trident (36' Willard Vega Pilothouse #36) URL ( http://fmyers.com ) From jalexander@ticz.com Thu Jun 21 22:36:20 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:36:20 -0400 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010621223620.007af300@pop.ticz.com> "I have seen many boats without any numbers on them at all. " These likely are "Documented" vessels. Vessels over 26' may be documented (thru the US Coast Guard) and are not required to carry registration numbers. I am not familiar with the requirements of your area, but many states do have regulations regarding placement of registration numbers and I am sure that the issuing agency can provide you with the necessary information. Jim Alexander From dalescott@cablespeed.com Thu Jun 21 23:40:08 2001 From: dalescott@cablespeed.com (Dale Scott) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:40:08 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B040F9@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: Phil, I don't know about back there but out west the boats without registration numbers are those that are "documented" vessels. All "undocumented" vessels are required to display registration numbers and the criteria for how they are to be displayed is not affected by the size of the vessel. From Nunas@pacific.net.sg Fri Jun 22 01:23:39 2001 From: Nunas@pacific.net.sg (AKAMA) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:23:39 +0800 Subject: TWL: RE: underwater work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sea Breathe in Australia and Seabreathe in Canada. They both have web sites. I have the one from Australia (made under licence from Canada) and would not be without it. Maurice Maurice & Louise-Ann Nunas KK 48 Whaleback #2 Ponggol Marina, Singapore -----Original Message----- From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of ronald barr Sent: 21 June 2001 11:01 PM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: underwater work Some time ago I saw fairly simple floating electrical pumps that would supply air down a few feet so that you could work under the boat in the water - does anyone know who makes these - or any other creative solutions for freeing props, and scrubbing bottoms without having to get a SCUBA tank (or holding your breath!)? Ron Barr Hatteras LRC 42 From georgs@trawlerworld.com Fri Jun 22 06:49:14 2001 From: georgs@trawlerworld.com (Georgs Kolesnikovs) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 06:49:14 -0400 Subject: TWL: Trawler World List fourth anniversary Message-ID: Happy anniversary! Trawler World List is four years old today. There are 888 subscribers in Anguilla, Australia, Bahamas, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, China, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Puerto Rico, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, U.S. Virgin Islands, and Venezuela, in addition to Canada and the U.S. The full-strength List has 382 subscribers, while 506, or 57 per cent, take the List Digest. My great thanks to all of you for helping make Trawler World List such an informative forum on trawlers and trawlering. --Georgs Georgs Kolesnikovs Listmeister of Trawler World Online at To post a message to the List, address it to List archives can be accessed at List rules and procedures are at Purchase books and other stuff from amazon.com via http://www.trawlerworld.com/c_bookstore.htm to help generate funds that will enable Trawler World List to continue operating as a free resource From tonymarshall@hargray.com Fri Jun 22 08:05:24 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:05:24 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: RE: Fluorescent Light In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4B5@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: <012401c0fb13$9ea90000$6501a8c0@thinkpad> You can buy lamps that are lower color temperature - cool white versus daylight Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head, SC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Engel" To: "'trawler-world-listsamuraicom'" Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 3:09 PM Subject: TWL: RE: RE: Fluorescent Light > The only bummer about fluorescent lights is that they are so harsh (I really > hate their color in a boat) and they can cause lots of RF interference with > electronics (even the low RF versions). > > But your wiring is just fine. > > Joe. > From tonymarshall@hargray.com Fri Jun 22 08:03:27 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:03:27 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4B7@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: <011c01c0fb13$58bb6380$6501a8c0@thinkpad> Probably the sender's PC clock is wrong Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head, SC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Engel" To: "'trawler-world-listsamuraicom'" Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 5:39 PM Subject: TWL: RE: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) > > It's FM of course. > > Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Arild Jensen [mailto:Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:02 PM > To: 'Mrmoo5@aol.com'; trawler-world-list@samurai.com > Subject: TWL: Time warp - was ( Fluorescent Light) > > > This message showed up today Thursday at 2:00 PM but I saw several replies > to this query on Wednesday. > > Do any of you have any idea of how this time warp came about? Lately I have > noticed many list messages relating to some post that I have not seen, > only to see that post show up later. > > Arild > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mrmoo5@aol.com [mailto:Mrmoo5@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:45 AM > To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com > Subject: TWL: Fluorescent Light > > > I bought a Thin-Lite flourescent fixture from West Marine yesterday. Upon > installing the unit, I discovered that the leads from the unit were solid > conductors not stranded. I thought that was peculiar but went ahead and > wired > it up. Do you Sparkies out there think I bought a bummer? > > Ralph Salerno > M/V ANCORA > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From AlorMaria@aol.com Fri Jun 22 08:29:22 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:29:22 EDT Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <11c.a595d6.28649422@aol.com> Hi Phil, Congrats on your new boat. First you must make it clear if your boat is 'state registered and numbered' or is 'federally documented'. The numbering requirements of the 1971 Federal Boating Safety Act do not apply to Federally documented vessels. Federal documentation is a type of "national registration" done through the US Coast Guard and is usually required by most lending institutions. Your boat must also measure at least 5 Net Tons (the USCG has their own method of measuring this) before it is eligible for federal documentation. This usually means a boat over 26' in length. Some states require that federally documented vessels also be registered but that does not seem to be the case in Maryland according to this site: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/boating/regulations/randn.html BUT, in Maryland documented vessels must obtain some kind of "use" decal and display it on the forward half of the vessel. This is to insure payment of the 'excise' tax on the vessel. If your vessel is not federally documented, you must register it "in the place of most common use" (Maryland?) and place the state of registration numbers on the front half of your vessel. The letters must be permanently attached, plain block style, no less than 3" in height, contrasting color to the background and read from left to right in the following manner: MD 1234 XX or MD-1234-XX Their is a yearly registration sticker (for Maryland) which must be within 3" of the vessel's state registration numbers. See the example in the web site. Now that you have a boat over 12 meters in length, don't forget that besides all the normal federally required safety requirements, you need a copy of the USCG "Navigation Rules" and a documented, written and signed "trash plan" carried on board at all times. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" (not long enough to need all that jazz) From bvcom@mac.com Fri Jun 22 09:15:53 2001 From: bvcom@mac.com (bv) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:15:53 -0400 Subject: TWL: Trawler World List fourth anniversary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to you, Georgs, and "Bon anniversaire"! Bernard > Happy anniversary! > > Trawler World List is four years old today. > From paul@browne.net Fri Jun 22 09:28:54 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 22 Jun 2001 06:28:54 -0700 Subject: TWL: Remove Vinyl Letters and Figures Message-ID: <20010622132854.6484.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Darby and Mike wrote, "warm up the plastic and then pull. Helps if you're ambidextrous and can heat and pull at the same time!" Must be nice. I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. Paul From paul@browne.net Fri Jun 22 09:44:13 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 22 Jun 2001 06:44:13 -0700 Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? Message-ID: <20010622134413.6970.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Hi Richard, Here are a couple more ideas for adding weight. Commercial fishermen tell me to use bags of concete mix. Apparently the paper bags allow the stuff to harden on its own with exposure to the moisture usually found in bilges. For my boat I used bags of sand. Lowes had 50 lb bags of "play sand" in tough plastic bags, which I figured wouldn't rot like the paper might. It was easy to slug 26 of them into place. I intended them to be temporary, but replacing them is down a ways on the "to do" list. Of course either concrete or sand is very inexpensive, but not as dense as lead or steel, and harder or impractical to really secure in place. Moveable ballast is nice, because you can move it. But on the other hand, there's that nagging feeling that maybe someday in a really hard chance it'll move on its own. Cheers, Paul I.B Danielle Tampa, Florida From PRyker@Affinity.com Fri Jun 22 10:39:06 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:39:06 -0700 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B04100@exchange.affinityla.com> Al, Thanks for the great info, and thanks to everyone else who answered my questions. I did not document the boat with the USCG. I did not get financing for the boat so did not need to. Now that I understand the reasoning for doing this better I am going to document the boat. After reading through the FAQ on the USCG web site I noticed that they document your boat by it's name and home port. Does this mean I have to have a trully unique name?? Also, a trash plan huh? Is there any examples of a good trash plan that I can use and also start implementing as I do not want to add any more to the already polluted waterways? Phil -----Original Message----- From: AlorMaria@aol.com [mailto:AlorMaria@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:29 AM To: PRyker@affinity.com; trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: Re: TWL: Boat registration number placement... Hi Phil, Congrats on your new boat. First you must make it clear if your boat is 'state registered and numbered' or is 'federally documented'. The numbering requirements of the 1971 Federal Boating Safety Act do not apply to Federally documented vessels. Federal documentation is a type of "national registration" done through the US Coast Guard and is usually required by most lending institutions. Your boat must also measure at least 5 Net Tons (the USCG has their own method of measuring this) before it is eligible for federal documentation. This usually means a boat over 26' in length. Some states require that federally documented vessels also be registered but that does not seem to be the case in Maryland according to this site: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/boating/regulations/randn.html BUT, in Maryland documented vessels must obtain some kind of "use" decal and display it on the forward half of the vessel. This is to insure payment of the 'excise' tax on the vessel. If your vessel is not federally documented, you must register it "in the place of most common use" (Maryland?) and place the state of registration numbers on the front half of your vessel. The letters must be permanently attached, plain block style, no less than 3" in height, contrasting color to the background and read from left to right in the following manner: MD 1234 XX or MD-1234-XX Their is a yearly registration sticker (for Maryland) which must be within 3" of the vessel's state registration numbers. See the example in the web site. Now that you have a boat over 12 meters in length, don't forget that besides all the normal federally required safety requirements, you need a copy of the USCG "Navigation Rules" and a documented, written and signed "trash plan" carried on board at all times. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" (not long enough to need all that jazz) From paul@browne.net Fri Jun 22 11:00:40 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 22 Jun 2001 08:00:40 -0700 Subject: TWL: Underwater Work Message-ID: <20010622150040.21414.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Ahoy there Shipmates, I have made a hooka rig for cleaning my hull with a snorkel, a garden hose, and a shop vac. I got one of those snorkels that have a drainage check valve close to the top. It's the kind with the drain valve part way down the tube, intended to let water out before it gets to the mouthpiece - not the kind with the float-type check valve at the end, intended to prevent sucking water into the snorkel. The one I use has an inverted conical shape around the top of the tube with a circumferential rubber flap for the drainage valve. I stick one end of the garden hose into the top of the snorkel and tape it in place. Then I attach the other end to the blow port of the shop vac. The reason for the check valve is to relieve excess air pressure at the snorkel, without admitting water when sucking on it. In an earlier version, I couldn't find a snorkel with a built-in drain valve, so I made a flap valve with a piece of rubber and a plumbing tee. Anyway, I have used the thing down to 4 or 5 feet, which is about all the pressure the vacuum cleaner will put out. When I'm shallower, I can hear the check valve bubbling continuously. And when I get deep enough, it only bubbles when I exhale. Another foot and it's too hard to suck air out of the thing, but 4 or 5 feet is deep enough to let me do the hull and running gear. The price is right for sure. Like the man said, holding your breath and ascending from even 4 feet is enough to hurt you or worse. Getting tangled up down there will also do you in. So I'm just describing what I've done. I'm not suggesting or recommending in any way that you build or use one of these rigs. I'm not suggesting that if you build one like this it will be safe to use. Do not build or use a rig like I've described; it's not safe. (sigh - modern life) Cheers, Paul I.B Danielle Tampa, Florida From Joe@JRE.com Fri Jun 22 11:12:02 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:12:02 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Underwater Work Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4BF@WINNTSRV> But Paul..... When Danielle is out on ice breaking patrols, how do you keep the ice-floes and ice-burgs from cutting or crushing the hose? What about being attacked my man-eating Manatees. We have heard up here in the PNW, that those Manatees can be vicious. Joe Engel -----Original Message----- From: paul@browne.net [mailto:paul@browne.net] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:01 AM To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com Subject: TWL: Underwater Work Ahoy there Shipmates, I have made a hooka rig for cleaning my hull with a snorkel, a garden hose, and a shop vac. I got one of those snorkels that have a drainage check valve close to the top. It's the kind with the drain valve part way down the tube, intended to let water out before it gets to the mouthpiece - not the kind with the float-type check valve at the end, intended to prevent sucking water into the snorkel. The one I use has an inverted conical shape around the top of the tube with a circumferential rubber flap for the drainage valve. I stick one end of the garden hose into the top of the snorkel and tape it in place. Then I attach the other end to the blow port of the shop vac. The reason for the check valve is to relieve excess air pressure at the snorkel, without admitting water when sucking on it. In an earlier version, I couldn't find a snorkel with a built-in drain valve, so I made a flap valve with a piece of rubber and a plumbing tee. Anyway, I have used the thing down to 4 or 5 feet, which is about all the pressure the vacuum cleaner will put out. When I'm shallower, I can hear the check valve bubbling continuously. And when I get deep enough, it only bubbles when I exhale. Another foot and it's too hard to suck air out of the thing, but 4 or 5 feet is deep enough to let me do the hull and running gear. The price is right for sure. Like the man said, holding your breath and ascending from even 4 feet is enough to hurt you or worse. Getting tangled up down there will also do you in. So I'm just describing what I've done. I'm not suggesting or recommending in any way that you build or use one of these rigs. I'm not suggesting that if you build one like this it will be safe to use. Do not build or use a rig like I've described; it's not safe. (sigh - modern life) Cheers, Paul I.B Danielle Tampa, Florida From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 22 11:09:29 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:09:29 -0400 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B04100@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: <000701c0fb2d$58b91ac0$acea4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Phil, The most important thing in the documentation process is a Coast Guard Bill of Sale - and they have forms for this ... Also the people at the CG documentation office have always been quite helpful and patient with me whenever I have phoned to ask questions about any fool thing that I did not know -- DO NOT be afraid to phone them .. with any of your questions . A Trash Plan Disposal Plan can be as simple as a single sheet of paper saying " Any and All accumulated trash for the motor vessel XXXXXX shall be collected and deposited in the vessels trash can which is located in the XYZ area . The Captain is responsible for disposal of such trash from the boat in a proper manner . It will normally be offloaded into a marina dumpster trash disposal facility. The disposal of Used Petroleum Products such as oil , grease, fuel and Used Antifreeze are likewise the responsiblity of the Captain and he shall disguard them in a safe and proper manner to an approved facility - which may be provided by either a marina or county waste oil receiving facility . UNDER NO CIRCUMATANCES SHALL ANY TRASH OR WASTE OIL OR ANTIFREEZE BE DISPOSED OF BY ANY OTHER PERSON OTHER THAN THE CAPTAIN IN AN APPROVED MANNER Although not required - because of Mrs. Hudsons 36 ft length - I carry one anyway in the booklet with her documentation papers .. It might be a good idea to also seek out the availability of a Boat Safety Inspection by either the Power Squdn or Coast Guard Aux .. Such inspections are really rather basic - and Showing the Sticker on your boat often aviods the hassle of being stopped for inspection of the boat - usually done by Maryland DNR fellows - when they are bored !! All the Best Ken From jschroeder1@uswest.net Fri Jun 22 11:09:35 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:09:35 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: Underwater Work In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4BF@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: Joe, You must remember that Paul lives in Florida, not in the Pacific Northwest where boating is a real challenge. He doesn't have to put up with killer whales with a taste for fiberglass, summer ice flows. 15 foot tides, racing container ships, dense fog, surprise gales, and marinas with a poor selection of cigars. The night's weather report actually resembles next day's conditions in Florida. Remember the time that the derelict tug got loose at night and the tide carried it all the way up to Whidbey Is thru the shipping lanes? Oh! the excitement. Regards, Jerry Schroeder M/V Surprise 21' Ranger R21 Ballard WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Joe Engel > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:12 AM > To: 'Trawler World List (Trawler World List)' > Subject: TWL: RE: Underwater Work > > > But Paul..... When Danielle is out on ice breaking patrols, how > do you keep > the ice-floes and ice-burgs from cutting or crushing the hose? What about > being attacked my man-eating Manatees. We have heard up here in the PNW, > that those Manatees can be vicious. > > > Joe Engel > > > From skurowski@home.com Fri Jun 22 12:01:53 2001 From: skurowski@home.com (Stan Kurowski) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:01:53 -0700 Subject: TWL: Navigation Rules was Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: <11c.a595d6.28649422@aol.com> Message-ID: Snip > Now that you have a boat over 12 meters in length, don't forget > that besides > all the normal federally required safety requirements, you need a > copy of the > USCG "Navigation Rules" and a documented, written and signed "trash plan" > carried on board at all times. Snip Does the copy of the Colregs need to be a hard copy, or, will an electronic copy (and the ability to read it) do the trick? Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA From Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jun 22 12:06:38 2001 From: Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com (Faure, Marin) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:06:38 -0700 Subject: TWL: Re: Boat registration number placement... Message-ID: <563C1B129660A542947B7DB4B3630CD4021B1F80@xch-nw-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:20:24 -0700 From: Phil Ryker Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... >I have seen many boats without any numbers on them at all. Documented vessels are not required to display state registration numbers, even though the vessel will have a state registration number assigned to it. At least that's the case in Washington state. A documented vessel is required to have the documentation number permanently affixed to the vessel in such a way that it cannot be removed, or that its removal will be obvious. Most owners seem to etch or carve the documentation number into a non-removable piece of structure, such as the framing in the engine room. The number has to be easily visible when you go look for it, but it does not have to be prominently displayed. A previous owner of our boat had the documentation number carved into a teak board which was then fiberglassed onto the inside of the transom in the lazarette. I've had a couple of different opinions on this; that the fiberglassed board is fine, and that it does not constitute a non-removable number. As our current documentation number is the same as the older one, I've elected to stay with the existing board. We are required in this state to display the annual registration sticker. According to the instructions, the sticker is supposed to be attached to the forward part of the hull. For boats that also display a Washington registration number, this sticker simply goes before or after the number. But most people with documented boats don't like the idea of sticking a solitary, brightly colored square sticker on the bow, so we simply affix it to a forward cabin window. ______________________________ C. Marin Faure 36' Grand Banks "La Perouse" Bellingham, Washington From bhall@bcpl.net Fri Jun 22 11:33:36 2001 From: bhall@bcpl.net (Brian J. Hall) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:33:36 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Fluorescent Light Message-ID: <007a01c0fb36$c575a080$b8d4ffcc@brihall> The wire should be tinned multi-strand to comply with the ABYC standards. Shame on West Marine's buyers for not picking up on this! Give their front office a call and make a complaint. I would return the light and hold off until the problem is corrected. This light is NOT a marine fixture until it meets ABYC standards! >I bought a Thin-Lite flourescent fixture from West Marine yesterday. Upon >installing the unit, I discovered that the leads from the unit were solid >conductors not stranded. I thought that was peculiar but went ahead and wired >it up. Do you Sparkies out there think I bought a bummer? Brian Hall CHB 45 Member ABYC Baltimore From hal@halwyman.com Fri Jun 22 12:30:35 2001 From: hal@halwyman.com (Hal Wyman) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:30:35 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Fluorescent Light In-Reply-To: <007a01c0fb36$c575a080$b8d4ffcc@brihall> Message-ID: I forwarded the orginal message to Chuck Hawley at West Marine and he has already contacted the buyer. Hal > -----Original Message----- > Shame on West Marine's buyers for not picking up > on this! Give their front office a call and make a complaint. > I would return the light and hold off until the problem is corrected. > This light is NOT a marine fixture until it meets ABYC standards! > > From kvolk@mindspring.com Fri Jun 22 15:35:45 2001 From: kvolk@mindspring.com (Kurt Volk) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:35:45 -0700 Subject: TWL: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? Message-ID: <001001c0fb52$8a741f90$ff64343f@kvolk> My dreams of cruising with style, elegance, and economy on an wood classic -- Huckins, Trumpy, Stephens, etc -- are shattered! Frankly, I would have to agree with Jerome that I'd rather be cruising than woodworking. So, NO WOOD! Thanks to everyone for trouncing my fantasy, I think :-) So what boatbuilding material requires the absolute lowest maintenance? Is it, in fact, fiberglass? Maybe I can find a kevlar Trumpy, a steel Huckins, or maybe an aluminim Chriscraft Roamer! Seriously, having heard the drawbacks of wood -- what is the lowest maintenance alternative? My wife and I may try to build or restore a cruising boat and would be interested in opinions on boat construction that requires the least maintenance. Thanks! Kurt Volk M/V Serenade Branford, CT From paul@browne.net Fri Jun 22 12:37:05 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 22 Jun 2001 09:37:05 -0700 Subject: TWL: Underwater Work Message-ID: <20010622163705.24824.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Joe Engel wrote, "But Paul..... When Danielle is out on ice breaking patrols, how do you keep the ice-floes and ice-burgs from cutting or crushing the hose? What about being attacked my man-eating Manatees." Hi Joe, Quite right. Those are just two of the reasons that I can't recommend anyone make such a rig. As a matter of fact, I had a spot of bother with a manatee just the other day. You know, some folks will dangle a dribbling water hose off their docks for the manatees. They need to drink fresh water. Anyway, I was down scraping yet another crop of barnacles off my prop when I felt a tug on my hose. I had just started to turn around to see what was the matter, when the snorkel was ripped clean out of my mouth in mid breath! Then this massive flat tail whipped out of the gloom and smacked me upside the head! I struggled to the surface, my lungs bursting for air. I could see the garden hose pulled to the beaking point, then all of a sudden it let loose and sprang backwards up against Danielle's hull with a tremendous whack. Just missed me by inches it did. I clambered onto the boat and poured myself a drink. Slowly the pieces came together. It was a manatee, no doubt, and the brute had obviously mistaken my breathing line for a water hose. It was lucky I wasn't killed or worse. As to ice breaking, Danielle does pretty well around marinas and the like. I haven't tried her much around yacht clubs yet. I understand the ice surrounding those is almost impenetrable. ;-> Might need to reinforce the hull a bit. Cheers, Paul From Joe@JRE.com Fri Jun 22 12:44:10 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:44:10 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re: Boat registration number placement... Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4C5@WINNTSRV> Not only not required to, but actually prohibited from displaying State registration numbers. -----Original Message----- From: Faure, Marin [mailto:Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 9:07 AM To: 'Trawler World Mail List' Subject: TWL: Re: Boat registration number placement... Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:20:24 -0700 From: Phil Ryker Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... Documented vessels are not required to display state registration numbers, even though the vessel will have a state registration number assigned to it. At least that's the case in Washington state. From jschroeder1@uswest.net Fri Jun 22 12:43:59 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:43:59 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? In-Reply-To: <001001c0fb52$8a741f90$ff64343f@kvolk> Message-ID: I love my little fiberglass 21 foot troller. Its a pleasure boat that looks like a small fishing troller pushed by a YanMar 2GM 18hp diesel. It sports a small pilot house, cuddy, and long cockpit. From a distance it looks like a small tug. I recently took it on a 300 nm cruise from Seattle to Canada. It performed like a champ. Under 25 gallons of diesel used. Unfortunately it is too small for two people. My cousin is my crusing partner. She and I plan on spending the next 10 years or so exploring the Inside passage between Seattle and Anchorage. Most of the boats shown at the pleasure boat shows look like they were designed by a Nebraska real estate agent for her accountant husband. In short, boats you might use for a dockside party or an hour or two outing, but not for a long distance cruise. There's a lot of fishing done in the Pacific NW, and there are dozens of small commercial boat manufacturers scattered about the PacNW. These guys don't advertise, and build one or two no frills boats a month. I suspect that this is true of other parts of the country. There's a commercial fishboat show in Seattle this fall. I plan on checking it out to see if I can find an under 30ft fiberglass double ender troller made for the fishing industry. Almost certainly it will not have yachty refinements. Eg. shower, trash compactor, built in networking, bimbo deck. What I hope to find is a sturdy displacement boat with a pilot house, cuddy and cockpit. Big enough to sleep two or three comfortably. Perhaps with a 30-40 hp diesel that can push it at 7 knots under a gallon an hour. I can add the trash compacter and jacuzzi later, and my wife doesn't allow bimbos on board. Most of my cruising is in the PacNW where marinas and small towns are 30 or 40 miles apart. Every other night or so is spent sleeping in a hotel or B&B. I'm an ex-sailor, so 6 or 7 knots in any direction is screaming. I saw dozens of boats in Canada exactly matching my specs except that they were made of wood. Again, I'm not a woodworker. I want to spend my time cruising. If anyone knows of such a small commercial fishing boat manufacturer on Puget Sound, please let me know. Regards, Jerry Schroeder M/V Surprise 21' Ranger R21 Ballard WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Volk > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:36 PM > To: Trawler-world > Subject: TWL: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? > > > My dreams of cruising with style, elegance, and economy on an wood > classic -- Huckins, Trumpy, Stephens, etc -- are shattered! Frankly, I > would have to agree with Jerome that I'd rather be cruising than > woodworking. So, NO WOOD! Thanks to everyone for trouncing my fantasy, I > think :-) > From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Fri Jun 22 13:32:50 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:32:50 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? In-Reply-To: <001001c0fb52$8a741f90$ff64343f@kvolk> Message-ID: > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Volk > Seriously, having heard the drawbacks of wood -- what is the lowest > maintenance alternative? My wife and I may try to build or restore a > cruising boat and would be interested in opinions on boat > construction that > requires the least maintenance. Thanks! I've been hanging out over on the origamiboats List, and getting some great info. The origami, or folded steel method of boatbuilding really has my dander up. http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/origamiboats There's some pro shipbuilders that frequently contribute, a lot of hard-core facts. Be sure to look in the pictures section at the construction sequence. The guy that wrote the book on folded steel is Brent Swain, who's self-published book supposedly also details out loads of ways to fabricate your own boat hardware (he's a sailor, but nobody's perfect :) ) for a fraction of the cost. I've got the book on order- If you can't wait, here's the URL: http://www.in2net.com/angelo/homepage.htm ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From cculotta@iamerica.net Fri Jun 22 14:06:25 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:06:25 -0500 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B04100@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: <3B338921.50905547@iamerica.net> Phil Ryker wrote: > Al, > > I noticed that they document > your boat by it's name and home port. Does this mean I have to have a > trully unique name?? > No. > > Also, a trash plan huh? Is there any examples of a good trash plan that I > can use and also start implementing Mine says that all garbage will be bagged and stored until suitable receptacle on shore is located for its disposal. The captain is incharge. This is on a sheet of paper with the ships documents or registration and ins policy. CCC Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From kfredden@verizon.net Fri Jun 22 14:39:27 2001 From: kfredden@verizon.net (Kevin Redden) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:39:27 -0400 Subject: TWL: Required Placards & Plans In-Reply-To: <3B338921.50905547@iamerica.net> Message-ID: The written trash management plan required to be on all vessels over 40 that have a galley and berthing, only applies to trash (i.e., garbage). It does not apply to, nor does it have to cite provisions for dealing with, oily waste (i.e., non-trash) as shown in an earlier posting. On the other hand, while the trash management plan is only required on certain boats over 40', and can be stored away with ship's papers, ALL US vessels 26' or more must also "display in a prominent location" a MARPOL Trash Placard at least 4 X 9". This is the one you can pick up in almost any boating store that tells you what can and can not be dumped within 3 miles, 3-12 miles, 12-25 miles, and over 25 miles offshore. The other required placard of interest to trawler drivers is the 5x8" Oil Pollution Placard (Discharge of Oil Prohibited) that is required on all boats over 26' with machinery spaces. It has be displayed in the machinery spaces or at the bilge pump control station. These two placards and the trash plan are three surprises that many people only find out about too late when a CG or police boarding officer points it out while writing a citation. Kevin From paul@browne.net Fri Jun 22 14:54:42 2001 From: paul@browne.net (paul@browne.net) Date: 22 Jun 2001 11:54:42 -0700 Subject: TWL: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? Message-ID: <20010622185442.6596.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> Hi Kurt, My vote goes to a used fiberglass hull, and a plywood/epoxy-glass deck and superstructure. If you are really interested in building a cruising boat, check out the 42 foot fiberglass lifeboat hull hidden at boat trader online. A 42 foot lifeboat hull! That's one big burdensome hull and hopefully a decent engine for not much money. See http://www.boattraderonline.com/addetail.html?10211026 You should be able to convert that hull for about $15,000 to $25,000 more in materials and yard fees and two years' spare time effort. And what a boat you would have! Cheers, Paul Browne Geezer Boatworks From jcw@rti.org Fri Jun 22 14:57:48 2001 From: jcw@rti.org (Wright, James C.) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:57:48 -0400 Subject: TWL: Waste management plans (was Boat registration number pla cement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF07A58F@rtints5.rti.org> The USCG gives an excellent and specific example of what they mean by "waste management plans for recreational vessels" at http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/nmc/wmprv.pdf. I converted their example to MS Word format and altered it slightly to correspond with how trash is actually handled on our boat. I'd be happy to send the MS Word file to anyone who is interested. -jim From dbarnard@virtualacreage.com Fri Jun 22 15:09:31 2001 From: dbarnard@virtualacreage.com (Doug Barnard) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:09:31 -0700 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: <000701c0fb2d$58b91ac0$acea4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of M. Kenneth > McQuage > > It might be a good idea to also seek out the availability of a Boat > Safety Inspection by either the Power Squdn or Coast Guard Aux .. Such > inspections are really rather basic - and Showing the Sticker on > your boat > often aviods the hassle of being stopped for inspection of the boat - > usually done by Maryland DNR fellows - when they are bored !! Make sure that you check out the age of the inspector first! I was going wakeboarding up at the local lake, when this old boy up and asks us if we want a free, non-mandatory inspection of our vessel. I'm ready to blow this guy off, but my crew looks on the verge of mutiny; what dangerous secrets am I hiding? So I acquiesce to this sorrowful, watery-eyed looking fellow. He proves to be none too agile. Takes a good ten minutes to get in the boat. The sun is beating down, we're broiling, and the need for speed is being totally ignored. He points at my pile of PFDs, and asks, "Are these the vessel's (breathe) personal floatation (breathe) devices?" No, they're clever cardboard cutouts! The rest of the inspection goes the same way. Over an hour later, he finally lets us go, after a stern lecture on boating safety. Hey, we passed! He must order floggings all 'round for those who don't pass. Best to have the boat inspected after a day on the water! ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From skurowski@home.com Fri Jun 22 15:33:59 2001 From: skurowski@home.com (Stan Kurowski) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:33:59 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: EDITED > I love my big wooden 52 foot "trawler". Its a pleasure boat that > looks like a small tug or fishing boat pushed by a 8V71 Detroit 230hp diesel. It > sports a modest pilot house, spacious living quarter, and comfortable aft deck. From a distance it looks like a small tug, from up close it looks like a larger tug. We cruise the San Juans and Gulf Islands It performs like a champ. Around 5 gallons per hour of diesel used. > Fortunately it is just right for two people and can accommodate 4. My wife is my cruising > partner. She and I plan on spending the next 10 years or so > exploring the > Inside passage between Anacortes and Anchorage. > > Most of the boats shown at the pleasure boat shows look like they were > designed by a Nebraska real estate agent for her accountant husband. In > short, boats you might use for a dockside party or an hour or two outing, > but not for a long distance cruise. SNIP > I saw dozens of boats in Canada exactly matching my specs except that they > were made of wood. We went ahead and bought one. Again, I'm not a woodworker. I spend my time > cruising. SNIP > Regards, > Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA > > My dreams of cruising with style, elegance, and economy on an wood > > classic -- Huckins, Trumpy, Stephens, etc -- are shattered! Frankly, I > > would have to agree with Jerome that I'd rather be cruising than > > woodworking. So, NO WOOD! Thanks to everyone for trouncing my > fantasy, I > > think :-) > > Kurt, STOP RIGHT THERE!!! DON'T let the opinions of others shatter your dreams or trounce on your fantasy. Use them as a reality check, and remember that's all they are, opinions given from the perspective of the person giving them. Whatever they have is the best and everything else has problems and they will be glad to point our the cons of everything else and the pros of what they have. They want you on their side, misery loves company. My advice is to keep dreaming and fantasize and look at all kinds of boats, fat ones and skinny ones, tall ones and short ones, ugly ones and beautiful ones, and ones made of wood, metal, frp, and concrete, etc. (kinda like dating). And one day you will find the one and you will have to have her. Only a survey report with more dollar signs on it than you could ever afford will prevent you from jumping into bed with her (and even then you will scheme about ways around that). And when you have her (or one like her) there will be those that will say "what in the world does he see in her". But you won't care, you will have your Huckins, Trumpy, or Stephens, etc. on your arm and not caring what anybody says. That my friend is boating. Now, as to this nonsense about woodworking OR cruising, there is nothing in the book that says you can't do both, they are not mutually exclusive. We do most of our "woodworking" on the hook, and have been known to scrape, sand, and paint/Cetol while headed down the pike. Robin says that working on Beaver Rock is cheaper and more stress reducing than a shrink. We have his and hers: palm sanders, random orbital sanders, heat guns, scrapers, etc., along with drink glasses, beer/wine cooler cozys, chairs, dinghies, dive gear, etc. The point is we do a little work and we have a lot of fun, and we don't think our woodie is a burden. At least no more of a burden than our past tupperware boats. Go into it with eyes open and don't let others shatter your dreams and trounce your fantasies. Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA From AlorMaria@aol.com Fri Jun 22 15:51:09 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:51:09 EDT Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/01 9:44:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, paul@browne.net writes: << Lowes had 50 lb bags of "play sand" in tough plastic bags, which I figured wouldn't rot like the paper might. >> Home Depot has something called "tube sand" which is a very fine, heavy sand in 60 lb soft plastic "tubes" (bags). They are intentionally sold to help keep 2wd pickup trucks on the road during northern winters. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" (owner of 300lbs of tube sand) From AlorMaria@aol.com Fri Jun 22 16:09:20 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:09:20 EDT Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <81.c0deb5e.2864fff0@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/01 3:10:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dbarnard@virtualacreage.com writes: << The sun is beating down, we're broiling, and the need for speed is being totally ignored. >> Yeah, thats why he makes the big bucks. I bet the hot weather didn't bother his old bones at all. His uniform is probably air conditioned. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From AlorMaria@aol.com Fri Jun 22 16:11:50 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:11:50 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: RE: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/01 3:34:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skurowski@home.com writes: << DON'T let the opinions of others shatter your dreams or trounce on your fantasy. >> Woodenboat magazine had a nice article about Trumpys several issues back. If you're interested in woodenboats at all, or just fanticize, you should pick it up. This month it has a nice article about the Penbo trawlers (not really trawlers - you read the article and see their real name). Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From Joe@JRE.com Fri Jun 22 16:46:16 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:46:16 -0700 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4CA@WINNTSRV> The 35,000 folks who volunteer 100's of hours each of their time in the CG Auxiliary, to try and insure that we have a safe boating environment, thank you for your understanding. I'll be working 16 hours this 4th of July, with my vessel, patrolling the big fireworks display here in Portland. It's nice to know we're appreciated. Joe & Debbie Engel Marine Computer Services & JRE Consulting, Inc. MV Freda Fly - 40' Tollycraft Tri-cabin Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: Doug Barnard [mailto:dbarnard@virtualacreage.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:10 PM To: TWL Subject: RE: TWL: Boat registration number placement... Make sure that you check out the age of the inspector first! I was going wakeboarding up at the local lake, when this old boy up and asks us if we want a free, non-mandatory inspection of our vessel. I'm ready to blow this guy off, but my crew looks on the verge of mutiny; what dangerous secrets am I hiding? So I acquiesce to this sorrowful, watery-eyed looking fellow. He proves to be none too agile. Takes a good ten minutes to get in the boat. The sun is beating down, we're broiling, and the need for speed is being totally ignored. He points at my pile of PFDs, and asks, "Are these the vessel's (breathe) personal floatation (breathe) devices?" No, they're clever cardboard cutouts! The rest of the inspection goes the same way. Over an hour later, he finally lets us go, after a stern lecture on boating safety. Hey, we passed! He must order floggings all 'round for those who don't pass. Best to have the boat inspected after a day on the water! ___________________________ Doug Barnard rebuilding a 20' Skipjack "Fiesta Bimbo" trawler-crawler wannabe From Awgertoo@aol.com Fri Jun 22 16:42:05 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:42:05 EDT Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <53.7a35bd1.2865079d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/01 3:51:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlorMaria@aol.com writes: << Home Depot has something called "tube sand" which is a very fine, heavy sand in 60 lb soft plastic "tubes" (bags) >> Ater ballasting was done I kept four lead pigs loose which I use to trim the boat P &S depending upon load, etc. Each weighs about 60 lbs and is roughly 3"x4"x8". They're easy to secure to a locker sole, etc. by drilling a 3/8" hole and using a SS lag bolt. Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From AlorMaria@aol.com Fri Jun 22 16:54:00 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:54:00 EDT Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40.d2c809e.28650a68@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/01 10:40:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRyker@Affinity.com writes: << I did not document the boat with the USCG. I did not get financing for the boat so did not need to. Now that I understand the reasoning for doing this better I am going to document the boat. After reading through the FAQ on the USCG web site I noticed that they document your boat by it's name and home port. Does this mean I have to have a trully unique name?? >> Hi again. I didn't mean to push federal documenation as desirable over state registration. Just the opposite. Although it is free to renew every year, it is difficult to do it yourself the first time. Most folks just fork over $500.00 to someone else to do it. Federal documentation restrains in the choice of names, hailing ports and lettering styles that you must display on your transom. I have a friend with a state registered boat he called "Santana" with the hailing port of "Key Largo". Very Bogiesque. Couldn't do that with his new documented yacht. There are no tax, insurance, or customs advantages of documenting over state registration that I can think of. Any sea lawyers out there? You can legally fly the "yacht ensign" - BFD. ;^0 Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From Awgertoo@aol.com Fri Jun 22 17:22:32 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:22:32 EDT Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <11.1612c4d8.28651118@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/01 4:55:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlorMaria@aol.com writes: << There are no tax, insurance, or customs advantages of documenting over state registration that I can think of. Any sea lawyers out there? >> Documentation is almost always required by financial institutions when obtaining a loan on a boat--it is the best way for them to perfect their lien. Beyond that, being documented also entitles you to place the name of your boat on the bows (in addition to the transom). To my mind, numbers on a substantial vessel look corny. BTW--I did my own documentation--piece of cake! Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE (documented) From Thataway@aol.com Fri Jun 22 18:26:31 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:26:31 EDT Subject: TWL: Adding Lead to Bow? Message-ID: As h as been pointed out, weight in the ends of the boat tend to make it less seaworthy and slow it down--hobby horse. Putting in concrete, etc is a solution, but why not be practical? If there is room another water tank--not as heavy as lead, but 8 lbs per gallon or about 64 lbs a cubic foot. This way you have a commodity you can use! I have trimming ballast--since I have an alumium tank on one side (replaced Steel) I have to either place ballast or run with one tank with less fuel. Regards, Bob Austin From Thataway@aol.com Fri Jun 22 18:30:51 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:30:51 EDT Subject: TWL: Underwater work Message-ID: <87.c0f4227.2865211b@aol.com> At the risk of starting another long discussion--see the archives--one of the simplist and cheapist ways to do this is use an oilless, teflon ring compressor--as noted this is what the boat cleaners use. The Sears 3/4 H P unit works very well, it costs less than $100 on sale. You have to adapt 50 to 100 feet of air hose (cost about $30 for 50 feet) and a scuba regulator (just match the threads). This gives clean oilless air and can be utalized close to the boat down to 30 feet. I have been doing this for over 25 years. The compressor is lighter and smaller than two tanks. Great for working on the boat. The only negitative is that you have to have an inverter or gen set. Bob Austin. From windmist@email.msn.com Fri Jun 22 21:01:32 2001 From: windmist@email.msn.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:01:32 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Fluorescent Light In-Reply-To: <012401c0fb13$9ea90000$6501a8c0@thinkpad> Message-ID: <001701c0fb80$0bf587c0$b834e341@h4dtb> Speaking of fluorescent lights, has anyone had any experience with Alpenglow fluorescent lights? Do they cause RF interference? This is a small company in Montana that claims to make a superior fluorescent light. I am thinking of using their product thoughout the Cascade 36 Trawler I am building. They cost about 1 boat buck apiece so I want to be sure they are suitable. Thanks, >Ron Nelson From jschroeder1@uswest.net Fri Jun 22 20:08:57 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:08:57 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: RE: RE: How 'bout a Fiber/Alum/Steel Trumpy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Stan is absolutely correct. One's boat choices should reflect his or her own opine, fantasies and needs. I hope that my epistle reflected the fact that these are MY views for MY boat. I think that I am right, but its a big world with room for a lot of views and a lot of boats. Haveing said that, there are still some boats designed to attract sneers. I'm thinking of a popular motor sailor that has an ad picture of the thing on a plane. Really. A sailboat under power on a plane. Yes, I know about international 14s and similar boats. I just spent an hour at the Chittenden locks in Ballard, WA watching several boats make the passage. With few exceptions, most were attractive and seaworthy, tho maybe not my kind of boat. A 1954 40 foot Chris Craft, a very handsome 1927 35 foot power boat, a splendid sailboat, a yachtified fishing boat and the inevitable bimbo/party boats, including one with a pair of toothsome bikini clad wenches on the foredeck. Unfortunately it was one of those modernistical aerodynamically designed beasts with a foredeck that sloped forewards with hardly any rail. I would be terrified of one of the girls slipping over the bow and then pulled under. Jerry Schroeder M/V Surprise 21' Ranger R21 Ballard WA > STOP RIGHT THERE!!! > > DON'T let the opinions of others shatter your dreams or trounce on your > fantasy. Use them as a reality check, and remember that's all they are, > opinions given from the perspective of the person giving them. Whatever > they have is the best and everything else has problems and they > will be glad > to point our the cons of everything else and the pros of what they have. > They want you on their side, misery loves company. > My advice is to keep dreaming and fantasize and look at all kinds > of boats, > fat ones and skinny ones, tall ones and short ones, ugly ones and > beautiful > ones, and ones made of wood, metal, frp, and concrete, etc. > > Stan Kurowski > M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) > Anacortes, WA > > From BOATGUY2@aol.com Fri Jun 22 22:53:26 2001 From: BOATGUY2@aol.com (BOATGUY2@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:53:26 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: Fluorescent Light In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2b.1731bcc6.28655ea6@aol.com> Hi Ron, Telepathy at work, I was literally just looking up a web address for Alpenglow to pass on to the list. Yes, I have used Alpenglow (10 units) on my previous boat a 50' foot sail boat and found no evidence of RF interference. My SSB was located 5 inches from my nav station Alpenglow with no problems. These lights are not cheap and frankly most people might consider them very expensive but in MHO worth the price. The quality shows, pun intended, in the lens design, hand crafted wooden base, stingy energy consumption, dual intensity choice by switch on base or an option to convert one light to red; but for me the best is really good light pattern. I plan to use some on our present trawler in the near future. Usual disclaimers, just a very satisfied costumer. Regards, Russ Simon KK 42 Mango Clear Lake Shores, TX From Thataway@aol.com Fri Jun 22 22:56:38 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:56:38 EDT Subject: TWL: Fluoresecent Light--AlpenGlow Message-ID: In 1992 I changed out all of the lights in my Cal 46 to the Alpen Glow lights. They were a bit on the expensive side--and I found out that in fact the bulbs that they used were standard Philip bulbs, just with a resister removed. I understand that currently they have come out with a LED series. I had an excellent experience in dealing with this company and would recommend their products. There was virturally no RF--I was running Weather fax, SSB Ham and Marine without any problems. One of the nice things about these lights is that they have "hi/low" switches and a red element for night lights. Bob Austin From love@3dnet.com Sat Jun 23 06:36:14 2001 From: love@3dnet.com (lynn love) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 06:36:14 -0400 Subject: TWL: documentation facts Message-ID: <3B34711C.BD0007F1@3dnet.com> There have been a few correct and incorrect detail as to the documentation issue. I recently found this information and will post some of it. Be sure to read the part about using the same name. The following is the real deal. It is rather lengthy hope you don't mined. WHAT VESSELS MAY BE DOCUMENTED? A vessel must measure at least five net tons and, with the exception of certain oil spill response vessels, must be wholly owned by a citizen of the U.S. MUST MY VESSEL BE DOCUMENTED? Vessels of five net tons or more used in fishing activities on navigable waters of the U.S. or in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), or used in coastwise trade must be documented unless the vessel is exempt from documentation. Coastwise trade is generally defined as the transportation of merchandise or passengers between points in the U.S. or the EEZ. In addition, towboats operating between points in the U.S. or the EEZ or between the EEZ and points in the U.S. and dredges operating in the U.S. or the EEZ must be documented. HOW DO I KNOW IF MY VESSEL MEASURES FIVE NET TONS? Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage Page. WHAT VESSELS ARE EXEMPT? Vessels that do not operate on the navigable waters of the U.S. or in the fisheries in the EEZ, are exempt from the requirement to be documented. Also exempt are Coastwise qualified, non-self-propelled vessels used in coastwise trade within a harbor, on the rivers or lakes (except the Great Lakes) of the U.S. or the internal waters or canal of any state. ARE THERE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOCUMENTATION? Yes. A Certificate of Documentation may be endorsed for fishery, coastwise, registry, or recreation. Any documented vessel may be used for recreational purposes, regardless of its endorsement, but a vessel documented with a recreational endorsement only may not be used for any other purpose. Registry endorsements are generally used for foreign trade. WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR DOCUMENTATION? The basic requirements for documentation are to demonstrate ownership of the vessel, U.S. citizenship, and eligibility for the endorsement sought. HOW IS VESSEL OWNERSHIP ESTABLISHED? If the vessel is new and has never been documented, ownership may be established by submission of a Builder's Certification (Form CG-1261), naming the applicant for documentation as the person for whom the vessel was built or to whom the vessel was first transferred. Also acceptable are a transfer on a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, a copy of the State Registration or Title, or foreign registration showing that the applicant owns the vessel. In the case of a previously owned vessel, the applicant must present bills of sale, or other evidence showing transfer of the vessel from the person who last documented, titled, or registered the vessel, or to whom the vessel was transferred on a Builder's Certification or Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin. If title was transferred by some means other than a bill of sale, contact the NVDC for assistance. HOW DO I ESTABLISH U.S. CITIZENSHIP? Citizenship is established by completion of form CG-1258. In addition to individuals, corporations, partnerships, and other entities capable of holding legal title may be deemed citizens for documentation purposes. Corporations must be registered in a state or the U.S; the chief executive officer and chairman of the board of directors must be U.S. citizens, and no more than a minority of the number of directors necessary to constitute a quorum may be non-citizens. In addition, at least 75% of the stock must be vested in U.S. citizens for a coastwise endorsement, and more than 50% of the voting stock must be vested in U.S. citizens for a fisheries endorsement. WHY AND HOW IS BUILD EVIDENCE ESTABLISHED? Evidence that a vessel was built in the U.S. is required for a vessel which is to be used in the fisheries or coastwise trade. Build evidence is normally established by submitting a Builder's Certification on form CG-1261. That form must be completed by the person who constructed or oversaw the construction of the vessel or an official of the company that built the vessel who has examined the records of the company to determine the facts of build. WHAT ARE THE VESSEL NAME AND HAILING PORT MARKING REQUIREMENTS? Documented vessels do not display their official numbers on the outside of the hull, but are identified by the name and hailing port. The application for documentation must include a name for the vessel composed of letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals and may not exceed 33 characters. The name may not be identical, actually or phonetically, to any word or words used to solicit assistance at sea; may not contain or be phonetically identical to obscene, indecent, or profane language, or to racial or ethnic epithets. Once established, a vessel's name may not be changed without application, fees, and the consent of the Director, National Vessel Documentation Center. There is no rule against duplication of names for documented vessels, so hailing ports are helpful in identifying vessels. HOW DO I MARK MY VESSEL? The official number assigned to documented vessels, preceded of the abbreviation "NO." must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least three inches high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area. The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. The vessel name of a commercial vessel must also be marked on the port and starboard bow and the vessel name and the hailing port must also be marked on the stern. All markings may be made by any means and materials that result in durable markings and must be at least four inches in height, made in clearly legible letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals. The "hailing port" must include both a place and a State, Territory, or possession of in the United States. The state may be abbreviated. HOW DO I CHANGE THE NAME OR HAILING PORT OF MY VESSEL? The name and/or hailing port may be changed by filing an application for change on form CG-1258 with the appropriate fees. If your vessel is subject to a mortgage of record, you must obtain permission from the mortgagee on form CG-4593. WHY DOES THE COAST GUARD REQUIRE DESIGNATION OF A MANAGING OWNER? Many vessels have more than one owner. To make sure that the right person gets mail concerning the vessel, one must be designated as the managing owner. WHAT IS A PREFERRED MORTGAGE? A preferred mortgage is a mortgage which is given status as a maritime lien. As such it enjoys a certain priority in the event of default. In addition, the Coast Guard is prohibited from making certain changes in documentation including, but not limited to, change of vessel ownership, name, and hailing port without consent of the mortgagee. For this reason many financial institutions require vessels which are eligible for documentation to be documented and to have preferred mortgages recorded against them. WHERE CAN I GET FORMS FOR DOCUMENTATION? Documentation forms may be downloaded from the world wide web at (http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/genpub.htm), by telephoning the NVDC, pressing 5 on the first menu and following the instructions for the autofax system or leaving an address to which the forms may be mailed. MUST I SUBMIT MY APPLICATION BY MAIL? In many instances where a bill of sale is not required, such as replacement of lost document, change of trade, or renewal, you may fax your application to the NVDC, provided you pay any fees by Visa or Master Card. HOW DO I OBTAIN TITLE INFORMATION FOR A DOCUMENTED VESSEL? You may obtain an Abstract of Title which will show all bills of sale, mortgages, and notices of claim of lien filed and recorded by the Coast Guard. You may request the Abstract by fax if you pay by credit card or may mail your request with the appropriate fee to the NVDC. To get accurate information you must supply the name and official number of the vessel. IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL EXEMPT FROM STATE JURISDICTION? No, all documented vessels must comply with the laws of the state in which they are operated. The vessel's document must be shown to state law enforcement personnel upon their demand. States may require documented vessels to be registered (but not numbered) and to display state decals showing that they have complied with state requirements. IS THE VESSEL TENDER DOCUMENTED? Documentation of your vessel does not cover the vessel's tender or dinghy. These craft fall within the jurisdiction of the motorboat numbering laws of the state of principal use. Please contact your state agency that handles the registration or numbering of motorboats for further information WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I SELL MY DOCUMENTED VESSEL? Return the original Certificate of Documentation to the National Vessel Documentation Center along with a brief note that you sold the vessel. Your Certificate is non-transferable and should NOT be given to the new owner. When the sale is finalized it is suggested you complete a U.S. Coast Guard Bill of Sale (CG-1340) that can be used by the new owner should he wish to document the vessel. Documentation requires that the new owner send in one signed original and one copy of the USCG Bill of Sale with an Application for Document ation (CG-1258) and fees. The buyer should also be able to use the bill of sale form as evidence of the transfer of ownership to obtain state registration and/or title if he chooses not to document the vessel with the U.S. Coast Guard. If you have an outstanding mortgage of record against your vessel, please make sure the mortgagee (the lender) completes a Satisfaction of Mortgage form and mails an original and one copy to the National Vessel Documentation Center. Your vessel cannot be removed from documentation with an outstanding mortgage. Documentation forms and fee schedules are available for downloading at this web site. HOW LONG IS THE CERTIFICATE OF DOCUMENTATION GOOD FOR? A Certificate of Documentation is valid for one year from the date of issue, providing there are NO CHANGES other than a change of owner's address. The Certificate must be renewed on an annual basis. Even though it is up to the owner to assure the document does not expire, the Coast Guard will send a Notice of Renewal to the managing owner approximately 45 days prior to expiration. There is no fee for the yearly renewal. See the instruction letter Renewal of Certificate of Documentation elsewhere at this site regarding renewal procedures. MAY I RENEW A LOST CERTIFICATE OF DOCUMENTATION? NO. An Application for Replacement (CG-1258) must be filed along with a $50.00 fee. If the lost document has already expired it must be exchanged. The fee would then be $84.00 plus applicable endorsement fees. SHOULD I RETURN THE CERTIFICATE OF DOCUMENTATION WITH THE RENEWAL NOTICE? NO, simply sign, date and return the Renewal Noticeeven if your address has changed. Please note the address change. You will receive a renewal decal and a change of address sticker to be affixed to your document. MAY I RENEW MY DOCUMENT EARLY? YES. The Renewal form is available at this website. It may be downloaded from the Forms Menu. It may be mailed or faxed to (304)-271-2405. BE SURE TO CITE THE VESSELS OFFICIAL NUMBER. MAY I RENEW THE CERTIFICATE AFTER THE OWNERSHIP CHANGES? NO. The ONLY change permitted is a change of address. ALL other changes will require that the Certificate be exchanged and accompanied by an Application (CG-1258), fees and other submissions to support the necessary changes. WHERE MAY I OBTAIN INFORMATION ON DOCUMENTED VESSELS? The "Merchant Vessels of the United States" (CG408) lists the names of U.S. merchant and recreational vessels documented under the laws of the United States. It provides vessel dimensions, tonnage, build (if available), and ownership information. The last printed version was in 1994. This information is now available in an electronic format by CD ROM through National Technical Information Services (NTIS), 5285 Port Royal Road, Springfield, VA 22161. You can order the latest edition of Vol. 99-001 at a cost of $125.00 plus shipping and handling. Contact Single Issue Sales at: 800-553-6847 or you can place your order electronically at: http://WWW.NTIS.GOV and search for "Merchant Vessels of the United States." Hope this is helpful . Lynn Love-Tampa _______________________________________________________________________ From gfinsen@usa.net Sat Jun 23 09:29:17 2001 From: gfinsen@usa.net (Jerry Finsen) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 09:29:17 -0400 Subject: Subject: TWL: RE: Fluorescent Light (Alpenglow) In-Reply-To: <20010623040018.7D63426252@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: <000001c0fbe8$81320fa0$6401a8c0@home> Ron - I have replaced all the lights in the living spaces on my last two boats with Alpenglows Never had any RF. I have found the color of the light to be much nicer than the standard incandescent lamps --- much warmer. I have always used the dual power - red/white combo . Add water proof option for the showers. Jerry Finsen KK48 Whaleback "Capella" KG2JM >Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:01:32 -0700 >From: "Ron Nelson" >Subject: TWL: RE: Fluorescent Light > >Speaking of fluorescent lights, has any.one had any experience with Alpenglow fluorescent lights? Do they >cause RF interference? This is a small company in Montana that claims to make a superior fluorescent light. > I am thinking of using their product thoughout the Cascade 36 Trawler I am building. They cost about 1 boat >buck apiece so I want to be sure they are suitable. > >Thanks, >Ron Nelson From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Sat Jun 23 09:38:27 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 06:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: wood cement In-Reply-To: <000001c0fbe8$81320fa0$6401a8c0@home> Message-ID: <20010623133827.49482.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> I need to fill in a few holes in one of my floor boards. Its not teak, just regular wood. Somethign used to be mounted there and there is a quarter ish size hole there I want ot fill. I was thinking of using wood cement to fill it, but I am not sure this has enough body. It also of course needs to be water tight. Any suggestions on what to use for this? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From AlorMaria@aol.com Sat Jun 23 10:56:29 2001 From: AlorMaria@aol.com (AlorMaria@aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:56:29 EDT Subject: TWL: wood cement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <11e.b72005.2866081d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/23/01 9:38:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, adventuresoul@yahoo.com writes: << Somethign used to be mounted there and there is a quarter ish size hole there I want ot fill. >> I'd whittle a bung of the same (or close) wood to fit the hole, coat it with epoxy and hammer it in. After it dries, knock it down with a chisel and finish with coarse sandpaper. You'll have a repair you can be proud of rather than one you need to make an excuse for. Al Johnson 34' Marine Trader "Angelina" From scaramouche@tvo.org Sat Jun 23 11:06:28 2001 From: scaramouche@tvo.org (George Geist) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:06:28 -0400 Subject: TWL: Battery Equaliser Message-ID: Our local marine store now sells bottles of :"Battery Equaliser" (not cheap). It is supposed to reverse or prevent sulfating. This product has been used by some list members . I am somewhat confused from the instructions which state to add 1 oz per cell every five years but also implies to add the stuff when the battery is new. What have experienced list members that use the stuff been doing? Add when new or add after a few years? And what were the results. I just spent $250 on two new size 27 INTERSTATE marine deep cycle batteries and want to do the best thing. Thanks in advance for your good advise, George of Scaramouche in Lake Ontario From Thataway@aol.com Sat Jun 23 11:41:20 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:41:20 EDT Subject: TWL: Wood Cement Message-ID: <11c.b2bc4b.286612a0@aol.com> Al's suggestion is excellent. However if the area is not just a round hole, but a ragged or thinned area use epoxy filler--that is either a compound such as Marinetex, Epoxy resin mixed with filler (high or low density, with some silica added to keep it from running) or wood saw dust of similar wood. Be sure that the area is dry and free of rot. I would clean it with laquer thinner or acetone before applying any repair--also rout out any bad wood--either a router or Dremel tool. Be sure that the repair goes back to solid wood. If cosmetics are a factor--do as Al suggests, but for an irregular place, route out a regular shape. One of the easiests ways to do that is to make the "Dutchman" first--the plug that you will put in, then use that as a templete for tracing the area to be routed out. You might want to slightly taper the sides of the "bung" or Dutchman, so that the fit is snug. If you need to put weight on it, cover it with wax paper or Saran warp, and then put the lead or iron pig on it first. The best way is as Al suggests: to tap in place. If it is large, a hand plane, or "slick" (very wide chizzel) can be used to take it fair. I would back any sand paper with a sanding block, so that the surface when sanded is flush and fair. Despite my feeling that fiberglass is the best boat building material--I grew up on wooden boats, so....There are right and wrong ways---wood putty is a wrong way in todays world. Bob Austin. From adagio@our.net.au Sat Jun 23 19:52:15 2001 From: adagio@our.net.au (Steve Darden) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:52:15 +1000 Subject: TWL: RE: Fluorescent Light In-Reply-To: <001701c0fb80$0bf587c0$b834e341@h4dtb> Message-ID: on 6/23/01 11:01, Ron Nelson at windmist@email.msn.com wrote: > Speaking of fluorescent lights, has anyone had any experience with Alpenglow > fluorescent lights? Do they cause RF interference? I know several cruisers who have these. They are pretty quiet. The inverse square law helps, keep them away from antenna leads, etc. Another very interesting technology is cold cathode, see I haven't evaluated yet. Was hoping to use on Adagio, but production startup was delayed. Steve Darden s/v Adagio GPO 2046 Hobart, TAS 7001 Australia 0415/782-305 http://www.adagiomarine.com From PRyker@Affinity.com Sat Jun 23 21:27:10 2001 From: PRyker@Affinity.com (Phil Ryker) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:27:10 -0700 Subject: TWL: Tools for tightening the stuffing box Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0410D@exchange.affinityla.com> We are slowly putting together a tool box for the boat. We recently just had the stuffing boxes re-packed and I was not present when the work was completed so I did not get a chance to see how the yard was able to loosen and tighten the stuffing box in such tight quarters nor did I get a chance to see what tool they used. I have searched through previous posts and have seen a few mentions of crescent wrenches from Sears and pipe wrenches. I do not believe there is enough room for them and I wonder if they are any other "magic" tools out there. It also appears that there are "gouges" in the nuts that someone has used a screwdriver on to tighten and loosen. Any suggestions on tools?? Phil From Awgertoo@aol.com Sat Jun 23 22:02:12 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 22:02:12 EDT Subject: TWL: Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <32.16d10433.2866a424@aol.com> In a message dated 6/23/01 9:27:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRyker@Affinity.com writes: << Any suggestions on tools?? >> I purchased two cast aluminum open-end wrenches specifically made for use on stuffing-box nuts. I think I bought them at River Marine Hardware in Miami, Fl--there's nothing special about them except that they fit and are long enough to give the necessary leverage. Best--Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From tonymarshall@hargray.com Sat Jun 23 21:48:40 2001 From: tonymarshall@hargray.com (Tony Marshall) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 21:48:40 -0400 Subject: TWL: RE: Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0410D@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: Yard mechanics who haven't got working room for spanners often take a hammer and cold chisel or crowbar, both to back off the jam nut, and to complete the adjustment. It seems to work! _____________________________ Tony Marshall K39 "Growler" Lying Hilton Head Island, SC | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com | [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Phil Ryker | Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 9:27 PM | To: 'trawler-world-listsamuraicom' | Subject: TWL: Tools for tightening the stuffing box | | It also appears that there are "gouges" in the nuts that someone has | used a screwdriver on to tighten and loosen. | | Any suggestions on tools?? | | Phil From johnegamble@msn.com Sat Jun 23 22:41:17 2001 From: johnegamble@msn.com (John Gamble) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:41:17 -0700 Subject: TWL: Painting question Message-ID: Hi All As we near the finale steps in getting this Aluminum boat finished, I have a question. We have used Interlux Epoxy for the fairing compound up till now. The whole hull has been done with this product, and it has been very very time consuming and costly in man hours.(But sure look hard as nails) We have now begun the upper section and have figured out the time and cost to finish with Epoxy filler is just to great. My question is, can we change (Just For The Upper Area) to a polyester filler compound? This will sand and dry much faster and save much time and money. Will we be OK? Will the polyester fairing compound provide good protection and durability? will it stick to any epoxy fairing compound already on the boat? Any thoughts or product suggestions will be greatly appriciated. Regards John Gamble johnegamble@msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jgaquin@ici.net Sat Jun 23 23:38:28 2001 From: jgaquin@ici.net (John Gaquin) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 23:38:28 -0400 Subject: TWL: Boat registration number placement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00cc01c0fc5f$290d3d00$4312b4cf@computer> ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Barnard > >...... wakeboarding up at the local lake, when this old boy up and asks us if we > want a free, non-mandatory inspection.... this sorrowful, watery-eyed looking fellow... >Takes a good ten minutes to get in the boat... > The rest of the inspection goes the same way. And when you run out of fuel when preoccupied with wakeboarding, or perhaps have some other problem, it will likely be "...this sorrowful, watery-eyed looking fellow..." or one of his fellow volunteers who takes his own boat out to help you. The CGAux and USPS take safe boating seriously. But we offer help to whomever needs it, not just those who agree with our outlook. Regards, John Gaquin m/v Brefnie Queen, 32' Luhrs USCGAUX From Thataway@aol.com Sat Jun 23 23:43:16 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 23:43:16 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: Tools for tightening the stuffing box Message-ID: <80.c1c0a82.2866bbd4@aol.com> As Mike pointed out there are special fixed size open end wrenches for stuffing box nuts Assuming that you have a nut that has a hole in it--there are other types of stuffing boxes, that use two nuts and a plate, with a cylinder to compress the stuffing. With these often a socket set and a universal joint and several extensions can at times get into difficult places. For the large nuts, at times a pair of "chain ViseGrips" will allow you to get the right angle. These inflnately adjustable from less than an inch to 4 or 5 inches. You can position them so that only an inch of throw can be taken and then the visegrips repositioned in very awkward places. I have found it rare that there is enough room to swing a 36" pipe wrench, which may be the size necessary to get around the nut. Also using a pipe--usually 1 1/4 inch as a cheater bar to get more leverage on the cast open end stuffing box wrenches may break loose a stuborn one. Also soaking the nut with Kroil for a day ahead of time will loose the threads. Bob Austin Pensacolal, FL From Thataway@aol.com Sat Jun 23 23:52:01 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 23:52:01 EDT Subject: TWL: Painting Question Message-ID: <8c.8817bad.2866bde1@aol.com> John asks if he should use polyester (like Bondo) over the alumium and previous epoxy filler. I answer no. Certainly it is done every day on autos and trucks. But I think that the risk of some moisture getting into the polyester and some time later causing massive problems (like some I have seen on even one off polyester boats that used large amounts of polyester filler) will in the long run cost more and be unsatisfactory. There are several different fairing compounds. You have chosen a very good one--which is hard. This means it will stand up to scrapes and scuffs---or even hitting a dock or two. Softer compounds will be easier to sand, but also easier to "ding". What often is done is that a harder compound is used for the first two or so fairings, then a softer compound for the "touch up". You could use a lower density or softer filler and still have the good adhesive properties of Epoxy (which I think is essential) and make it easier to sand--with the understanding that you may have to "touch it up" if dinged. I often have made up my own mixture of West Epoxy, High Density, low density and cabosil (silica) to get the proper consistancy and yet easy sanding. I will check with some of my boat building friends and see what they are currently using.--my guess is what I described as in the past. Bob Austin Pensacola, FL From rcrogers6@home.com Sun Jun 24 02:08:20 2001 From: rcrogers6@home.com (Ron Rogers) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 02:08:20 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005801c0fc74$117b8f10$a9eaf918@CC890211A> Phil, A yard mechanic suggested that I get an "undersink wrench" at a hardware store. Essentially, this turned-out to be a crescent wrench with a long straight mouth. Home Debit has them for a small sum. They lack leverage as their handles are relatively short - but so is access on many non-trawler vessels. Many yardworkers in Annapolis use them and they are cheap enough to get spares if you are going far from a hardware/plumbing supply store. If there is swinging room aboard, Northern Tools (email order) sells a 3 piece set of very large steel crescent wrenches for ~ $34 US dollars. They are well-made and plated in China. Aluminum crescents and stilsons are also available. Harbor freight probably has similar, nut I'm familiar with Northern Tools. They have retail stores in Florida and Newport News, VA as well as (see) http://www.northernstores.com/. Watch out in the stores as tool nuts can come out paupers - I bought a 1/2 ton jaws of life (hydraulic, wedge shaped, plates that separate stuff like the deck of my house.) Toolely yours, Ron Rogers Annapolis, MD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Marshall" > Yard mechanics who haven't got working room for spanners often take a hammer and > cold chisel or crowbar, both to back off the jam nut, and to complete the > adjustment. It seems to work! From tobyboat@worldnet.att.net Sun Jun 24 02:11:10 2001 From: tobyboat@worldnet.att.net (M. Kenneth McQuage) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 02:11:10 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Painting question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003b01c0fc74$7996b660$1eeb4e0c@KennethMcQuage> Epoxy - is actually a family of materials - like steel is a family of materials -and comes in many types or formulations - having different qualities . Epoxy itself is a deritive of coal tar and is actually much softer than polyester ( which is derived from oil ) - Epoxy has much greater properties of adhesion - and is much less water perminable - ( which is why it is used as a barrier coat and below the waterline for repairs )- it requires air to 'cure'. Poly ester requires the abscence of air - so most fillers have a wax built in - which rises to the surface to block the air - to allow the polyester to 'cure' - the wax on the surface must then be removed to allow painting - and you better get it all - wiping two or three times with the cleaner - or you will end up with a crappy looking paint job .. One is not better than the other - just different requiring different finishing techniques . The ' hardness ' in general - comes from the type of filler that is mixed with either epoxy or polyester. The fillers or combinations thereof come in almost infinite variety . A ' hard ' filler is not necessarily better than a ' softer ' one . There is no one combination of fillers and different fillers may be useful for finishing different areas of a boat . For the Hull - where hard scrapes are likely - a hard filler might be desired . For the cabin - where the scrapes would not be expected to involve a solid bounce off a piling - a softer ( and more easily sandable ) filler mix woud do just as well . ( unless your guests wear hobnailed boots ! ) Auto Body filler is mostly polyester and talc - and will have different qualities than a epoxy talc filler ..which would be much softer. I do not know if International distributes their complete variety of epoxy fillers through the DIY marine store network - though they have quite a few available - There tech support is sometimes very good - call and ask which ones they suggest to be used where - Ask also about the filler combinations used in each product and their properties .. Or get the West Tech manual read it till your eyes hurt to learn about each one of the fillers - then call West's tech support to discuss making up a combination of fillers to do the job that you want - they are real helpful - The more you have learned before speaking with their tech people - the more helpful they will be able to be .. There are several Texts on the subject - but the West manual is probably the most practicle . Also get the Norton abrasives catalog - look it over and then talk to their tech people - the variety of sandpapers available for various finishing tasks is truly wonderful -- I don't know what you are using - but it sounds like there might be a better choice available ! Then look to your sander - the Porter Cable Speed Block is almost the universal standard amoung boat yard workers doing a lot of finish sanding - if using an electric sander .. it is a heavy duty machine and will will do a lot of work . Matching the speed of the sander to the cutting speed of the abrasive is highly desirable -- . again I don't know what you are using . A Speed Block with the correct paper should make light work of almost any filler . A third possibility is the use of Vinyl ester - which is now being used as barrier coat and in below the waterline lay up by quality manufacturers ( or at least by those who do not want as many compalints about their product ) - see current issue of Power Boat Reports ! This family of esters are not generally available through the DIY marine network however .. All that Elephant crap being said ... Above the waterline - on the sides of the cabin and the like - I would see nothing wrong with using Bondo - It's cheap - sands well - adheres well -- if the substrate surface is clean and lightly sanded to give the surface some ' tooth ' -- and will finish well -- but I realise that opinion may be to many others solid evidence of my diminished capacity !! Should you scrape it hard enough to do any damage - you are sure going to have to repaint the area anyway no matter what filler is used !! Heck I used some Bondo with a little DE added - to make molds to cast zincs for my friends bow thruster last week - it is actually pretty tough stuff !! All the Best Ken From zhyachts@pub.zhuhai.gd.cn Sun Jun 24 03:13:35 2001 From: zhyachts@pub.zhuhai.gd.cn (Seahorse Marine) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:13:35 +0800 Subject: TWL: Re: Painting Question In-Reply-To: <8c.8817bad.2866bde1@aol.com> Message-ID: <00a201c0fc7e$0f9b78e0$08b369ca@mk> Check out http://www.duratec1.com/ for Vinyl Ester and Polyester fairing putty and primers. Their sprayable primers can be applied up to 1/4' thick without running and sand beautifully. We use their Vinyl Esters for fairing steel boats. With long boards, two or sometimes three workers per board, we can get a molded gelcoat look on a steel hull. Bill and Stella Kimley Seahorse Marine, Zhuhai China Tel# 86-756-550-2145 Fax# 86-756-333-5901 www.SeahorseYachts.com From nancy@wmis.net Sun Jun 24 06:26:13 2001 From: nancy@wmis.net (Levitation Staging inc) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 06:26:13 -0400 Subject: TWL: move Message-ID: <002101c0fc98$18ed3040$86c1b0d1@default> It looks like we have finally sold business as we have one offer on table that is workable and another coming on Mon.. We will be selling our house in Mich. and buying a condo in the area that is N. Carolina or Southern Virginia. Also does anyone know about the area of Virginia - cape Charles. We want a place that has some civilization - a good library, interest in arts, access or on ICW. Anyone with any information on this area regarding: weather, house values, air and water pollution, or general information we would appreciate it. We will pick several towns and then when sale is over we will fly out and drive the area to finalize the pick and buy. We are trying to do research now. Our plan is to ready the boat, find a service to rent and watch over the condo and take off for 1-2? year into the Caribbean. When we return we will be living in this area. chosen because it is near relatives, seems to be north enough to be out of the worse humidity, south enough to be out of the ice and snow winters we are use to and the Chesapeake bay is an area my husband would like to boat in after our trip. We are excited and praying thing finally go smooth for us after this long wait. We have spent it well learning more, taking short trips from our Florida base and increasing our retirement fund. Have a happy healthy day Nancy Keser MV-Intrigue, 48' Seaton-Neville trawler web sites: www.levitationstaging.com From tgrave1@home.com Sun Jun 24 07:32:03 2001 From: tgrave1@home.com (Ted Grave) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 07:32:03 -0400 Subject: TWL: Painting Question Message-ID: <002301c0fca1$4aac1660$99cc0241@mrdn1.ct.home.com> In my business, we buy specialty industrial coatings from Keeler & Long. Their web site is: www.keelerandlong.com I've been out of that part of the business for over a decade, but they were well known for great technical help, coatings that worked, and could be applied with relatively unskilled labor with varying surface prep conditions. Their systems were effective, but forgiving, installation wise. They might be a good resource. Comments from the paint pros out there welcome. The usual disclaimers... Ted Grave GB32/725 Branford, CT From scaramouche@tvo.org Sun Jun 24 08:40:33 2001 From: scaramouche@tvo.org (George Geist) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 08:40:33 -0400 Subject: TWL: Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0410D@exchange.affinityla.com> Message-ID: PRyker@affinity.com writes: >I did not get a chance to see how the yard was able to loosen >and tighten the stuffing box in such tight quarters nor did I get a >chance >to see what tool they used. Most of all you need a 5 ft or less contortion artist with very long arms and hands like vicegrips. My 235 lbs, 6ft body doesn't even fit into the lazaret from where the adjustment has to be made. Been thinking of cuttting an access hole into the cockpit floor (or trade my sailboat for a trawler - very tempting) George of Scaramouche From cculotta@iamerica.net Sun Jun 24 10:11:13 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:11:13 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re:Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: <005801c0fc74$117b8f10$a9eaf918@CC890211A> Message-ID: <3B35F500.9E2F467@iamerica.net> Point of order guys: CRESCENT and VICE GRIP are brand names of a type of tool. They do not wish to loose their names due to generic usage. Several cases in point : THERMOS this is a brand of vacuum bottle. ESCALATOR is a brand of moving stair. KLEENEX is a brand of facial tissue. FORMICA is a brand of plastic laminate. The list goes on..... CCC Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From rgano@mantech-pc.com Sun Jun 24 14:18:51 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:18:51 -0700 Subject: TWL: Where in the world is the TORTUGA and Larry Brown? Message-ID: For those of you who might be wondering about that question, the Ragin' Cajun and the Cajun Queen, Terry (Teri? sorry, girl, if this is wrong) were sighted yesterday sliding out of St Andrew Bay pass at Panama City yesterday. Several of us from the Panama City Cruising Club, including our commode (oops, Commodore) Wayne Wert in CELESTIAL, were headed down the coast to a favorite, isolated anchorage when my lookout sighted a foreigner in our midst. In a small town like ours, we tend to know who is and who isn't local. Larry made it even easier for the not too perceptive of our group by putting a Louisiana hailing port on the bottom of his tipped up Whaler. Well, we locked and loaded, got out the challenge and reply code book, and increased RPMs to max to close this vessel. The first hail from CALYPSO came back from TORTUGA, "Is that Rich Gano from the TWL?" Nuff said; we trained centerline and continued our approach in a more friendly manner. Turns out they were headed for Port St Joe and/or Apalachicola. Since our anchorage was right on their way, we all talked them into joining our three vessels for a look see, IF they promised not to tell too many people about our local secret spot. Some time later the TORTUGA and CALYPSO were rafted together in clear water with sterns in water you can jump off the swim step and not end up over your waist in it. The other two boats were nearby. We all enjoyed a fine time visiting and at dinner that evening and watched a pretty sunset over the strip of beach between us and the Gulf. Larry's ability to reel off the Cajun dialect about any topic was most entertaining. He should spice up his emails with some of those gems. Since I had to get home earlier than the rest, Larry said to be sure and log on to tell everybody the reason he has not been on TWL a lot lately is that he is too busy living the trawlering life to be writing about it just now. As John says, "Trawler on!" Hope to hear more about their travels here on TWL. And what a treat to meet these two fine folks! Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB-42-295) Southport, FL From jschroeder1@uswest.net Sun Jun 24 12:42:43 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:42:43 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Re:Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: <3B35F500.9E2F467@iamerica.net> Message-ID: Point of order. After a certain point a term becomes generic and is commonly used to refer to a class of items: Eg. Thermos bottle - any vacuum bottle. Kleenex - Any tissue Formica - any plastic laminate Escalator - any moving stairwell Coke - any type of colored sugar water Crapper - any type of sanitary facility Others generic terms include: Nylon, Rayon, Spandex, trampoline, kerosene, cellophane. The list is long and getting longer. Vice Grip and Crescent wrench are teetering on the brink. Jerry Schroeder M/V Surprise 21' Ranger R21 Ballard WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com > [mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com]On Behalf Of Charles > Culotta > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:11 AM > To: Ron Rogers > Cc: Trawler World List > Subject: TWL: Re:Tools for tightening the stuffing box > > > Point of order guys: > > CRESCENT and VICE GRIP are brand names of a type of tool. > They do not wish to loose their names due to generic usage. > Several cases in point : > THERMOS this is a brand of vacuum bottle. > ESCALATOR is a brand of moving stair. > KLEENEX is a brand of facial tissue. > FORMICA is a brand of plastic laminate. > The list goes on..... > > CCC > > Charles C. Culotta Jr. > Patterson, LA > 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW > > > From rgano@mantech-pc.com Sun Jun 24 14:44:40 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:44:40 -0700 Subject: TWL: Adding lead to bow? Message-ID: Hey, Paul, is all that sand your way of making your boat and sandbox one and the same? Kinda like having cake and eating it too? And giving your right arm to be ambidextrous is a sort of left-handed way to go about it, don't you think? Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB-42-295) Southport, FL From Thataway@aol.com Sun Jun 24 13:18:04 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:18:04 EDT Subject: TWL: VICE GRIP Message-ID: <4f.d7c4fac.28677acc@aol.com> Charles, VICE GRIP: You must have some legal software confused with the tool: VISE GRIP. Charles is correct, I should have capitalized all of the letters--however the lower case "vise grip" is commonly used as a generic term for a number of other similar clamping jaw tools--often made in countries other than USA. In my experience the genuine VISE GRIP is a superior tool, and to my knowledge the only one who makes a chain clamping model. Regards, Bob Austin From Thataway@aol.com Sun Jun 24 13:31:02 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:31:02 EDT Subject: TWL: Chain VISE GRIPS Message-ID: <45.82cd866.28677dd6@aol.com> >Fromsome of the posts I suspect that some TWL members are not aware of the rare but extremely useful chain VISE GRIP. The handle is like any other VISE GRIP. The upper Jaw, has about an 18 inch piece of chain--similar to bicycle chain attatched. Between every other link, there is a rod that extends about 3/16 from the attatchment of the link. The lower jaw has two "ears" that catch these rods, thus the chain can be passed around any shape object, and secured nearly tight--the screw on the handle takes up the slack to any degree of tightness, so that the tool will not slip. Generally rotate the tool in the direction so that the chain is pulling on the two ears on the lower jaw. By releasing the clamp, the tool can be rotated only a few degrees and reclamped in very limited working space. Good for locking shafts, holding or turning very large nuts, with limited spaces, removing (and potentially destroying recalcifent filters), round rod etc. There is a similar divice utalizing fabric straps (possiably made by Cresent Tool Company) used on polished surfaces in the plumbing trade.--This however does not have the "Vise Grip" type of locking. Engagingly yours, Bob Austin From rgano@mantech-pc.com Sun Jun 24 15:33:25 2001 From: rgano@mantech-pc.com (Rich Gano) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:33:25 -0700 Subject: TWL:Underwater Work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Along the lines of don't do this yourself etc, etc. A Navy master diver I know made me up a cheap rig for working around the boat from a small oil-less electric air compressor (Teflon rings) we got from a chain hardware store. He said he tested one like it at the Navy Experimental Dive Center here in town some time back, and the air quality it rendered beat the Navy's dive compressors hands down. Anyway, he rigged it with 50 feet of hose and a second stage scuba regulator, gave me a weight belt and said that if I ever got a headache from using it to dump it. I have many hours on this rig with no headaches. Yesterday it was retrieved from my big 132-quart Igloo "dive locked" and brought by dinghy to me at another boat (I was in the water already with snorkel gear) for the purpose of unwrapping a propeller/anchor rode combination at a remote anchorage. The day before it helped me salvage a very expensive set of tri-focals from 10 feet of murky water at my home port. Ant the list goes on and on... No professional civilian diver would likely have anything to do with this idea, and I definitely would never have dreamed up this thing nor executed it on my own. I attended the Navy Diving and Salvage School a long time ago and am fully aware of the finality of breathing air with oil fumes in it. The fact that this compressor type had been tested, and the qualifications of the man putting it together, AND the fact that I would NEVER/NEVER lend it out nor dive more than ten or twelve feet with it are the reasons I went ahead with the project - so don't you try it. But by all means get scuba qualified (I can't - won't go into it here) and/or get one of the commercially made hookahs. A simple rig used by many bottom cleaners is a dive tank, air line, and a second stage regulator (the thing that has the mouth piece in it). If you are not scuba qualified, you can't get your tank filled by dive shops. I also keep a shorty wet suit and hood (bought second hand from Play-It-Again Sports shop) in my Igloo dive locker for those times when the winter water temp makes diving "nekked" around here impracticable. A neighbor recently returned from the Great Lakes had occasion to need to look under his boat in Lake Huron (I think) in September. It was COLD, but he survived the few-minute dip much better than if he had not had his wet suit. Rich Gano CALYPSO (GB-42-295) Southport, FL From cculotta@iamerica.net Sun Jun 24 15:50:59 2001 From: cculotta@iamerica.net (Charles Culotta) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:50:59 -0500 Subject: TWL: VICE GRIP In-Reply-To: <4f.d7c4fac.28677acc@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B3644A3.C7AF8CD4@iamerica.net> I do not even claim to be a passable typist, my wife chuckles because I still look at the key board. I have been paying a secretary real good money for 32 yrs to do all of my typing, so, if I spell VISE instead of VICE it's a small price to pay. The big but in this is that by any measure VICE is more fun then VISE!!!! To borrow another's ending, Grippingly yours ( and I don't have any idea if that is spelled correctly) CCC Thataway@aol.com wrote: > Charles, > VICE GRIP: You must have some legal software confused with the tool: > VISE GRIP.- Charles C. Culotta Jr. Patterson, LA 95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW From jnorton@umich.edu Sun Jun 24 16:18:18 2001 From: jnorton@umich.edu (John the Civil Engineer) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 16:18:18 -0400 Subject: TWL: Tonga Shipwreak In-Reply-To: <20010621.105651.-322021.1.pgslo@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010624160720.01c70f00@127.0.0.1> Patrick, Wow! You actually got to meet the guy himself! I have the book, it is called Minerva Reef. Actually, there were 4 deaths total, but it was still very impressive. The book is by Olaf Ruhen, published 1963, Little, Brown and Co., Boston. His name in the book is David Fifita. The reefs were charted, but they were blown off-course. Great read. I thought you were much younger than apparently you are, I was born in 1969! I guess you are just young in spirit . You would probably like my grandpa, just last year he went white-water rafting down the Grand Canyon, at age 86. Best regards, John Norton At 11:06 AM 6/21/01 , you wrote: >Tevita Fifita is famous because earlier in his life he was ferrying the >Tongan Rugby team from Tonga to Figi. They hit an uncharted submerged >reef on their voyage. They were marooned on this reef for 6 months >before being rescued. Tevita told me,the reef was submerged 2 to 3 feet >under water at times. With much difficulty and hardship, everyone >survived. There was a book written about the experience but I forget >what it is called. -------------------------------------------------------- Mr. John W. Norton, Jr. E.I.T Doctoral Student - Geotechnical Engineering University of Michigan: office-(734) 764-3648 "Teaching and motivating the engineers of the future!" http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jnorton/ -------------------------------------------------------- I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many months of struggle and suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I say it is to wage war by land, sea, and air. War with all our might and with all the strength God has given us, and to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs -- victory in spite of all terrors -- victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival. --Winston Churchill, First address to the House of Commons as Prime Minister, May 13, 1940 -------------------------------------------------------- From wmartin@tampabay.rr.com Sun Jun 24 20:06:59 2001 From: wmartin@tampabay.rr.com (Bill Martin) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:06:59 -0400 Subject: TWL: Boarding Steps Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010624194551.00a20b30@pop-server.tampabay.rr.com> I'd be interested to hear if someone has a magic bullet solution to boarding steps for a boat with high freeboard. Some of the constraints I'd like it to meet are: 1) Actual stair steps, not a ladder. The dog doesn't handle ladders too well, and the wife isn't any too pleased with them either. 2) "Easy" to load and stow on the boat for transport as one travels. Not something to be left permanently at the home dock. The molded fiberglass steps you see around seem to me like they would fail this step. 3) They don't take up the whole dock finger -- the person docked beside me deserves at least half of the finger left open for his access. This seems to rule out the metal steps you see with casters on the bottom. If they're long enough to work when you're at a low floating dock, then at a higher fixed dock they'll be too long and extend out across most or all of the finger. It seems to me that the only way to meet all the criteria would be to build some kind of equivalent to the molded fiberglass steps, but which could be unbolted and stored away flat somehow. Or somehow take the folding steel steps with casters you see, and adapt them to work parallel to the finger rather than perpendicular to it. Has anyone seen something out there that solves the problem more elegantly? Thanks. Bill From ftimpano@infi.net Sun Jun 24 21:19:21 2001 From: ftimpano@infi.net (Frank Timpano) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:19:21 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re:Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: <3B35F500.9E2F467@iamerica.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010624211921.01ba1810@pop.infi-net.mindspring.com> I think vice grip is up for grabs. Vise Grip is the better know brand. At 09:11 AM 6/24/01 -0500, Charles Culotta wrote: >Point of order guys: > >CRESCENT and VICE GRIP are brand names of a type of tool. >They do not wish to loose their names due to generic usage. >Several cases in point : >THERMOS this is a brand of vacuum bottle. >ESCALATOR is a brand of moving stair. >KLEENEX is a brand of facial tissue. >FORMICA is a brand of plastic laminate. >The list goes on..... > >CCC > >Charles C. Culotta Jr. >Patterson, LA >95 Miles West of New Orleans on ICW > > > From Awgertoo@aol.com Sun Jun 24 21:25:03 2001 From: Awgertoo@aol.com (Awgertoo@aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:25:03 EDT Subject: TWL: Re:Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <37.16f76517.2867ecef@aol.com> In a message dated 6/24/01 9:19:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ftimpano@infi.net writes: << I think vice grip is up for grabs. Vise Grip is the better know brand. >> Another example is "Windbreaker"--also a good name for a gassy dog.... Michael Oritt 48' Durbeck--NAMASTE From fburrows@mail.com Sun Jun 24 22:52:16 2001 From: fburrows@mail.com (Frank Burrows) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:52:16 -0400 Subject: TWL: Boarding Steps In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010624194551.00a20b30@pop-server.tampabay.rr.c om> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010624224756.01ee8260@pop.site1.csi.com> Bill: We carry one of these on the boat strictly for use when we dock in a transient marina. My neighbor has one as his regular boarding ladder. West sells them but you can probably do better on the internet. They are very sturdy and made of aluminium so they are fairly light. Here is a link to the manufacturers page. http://www.ladders.com/jumbo1.html Frank Burrows 1979 43' Viking MY Piney Narrows Marina Chesapeake Bay : >I'd be interested to hear if someone has a magic bullet solution to >boarding steps for a boat with high freeboard. Some of the constraints >I'd like it to meet are: > >Has anyone seen something out there that solves the problem more elegantly? From skurowski@home.com Mon Jun 25 00:27:03 2001 From: skurowski@home.com (Stan Kurowski) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:27:03 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Painting question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: SNIP >will it stick to any epoxy fairing compound > already on the > boat? John, The answer is no. Polyester will not stick to epoxy. Epoxy will stick to polyester. It has to do with the bond at the molecular interface. Epoxy will prevent the polyester molecules at the interface from "kicking off", therefore you will have a weak joint that will sooner or later delaminate. Polyester however does not prevent the epoxy from hardening and therefore you can get a good bond (all other things considered) when placing an epoxy patch or coating over polyester. Thus the paradox, epoxy will stick to polyester but polyester will not stick to epoxy. Stan Kurowski M/V Beaver Rock ( http://members.home.net/skurowski/ ) Anacortes, WA From richard@richardmorrison.com Sun Jun 24 22:48:56 2001 From: richard@richardmorrison.com (Richard Morrison) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:48:56 -0500 Subject: TWL: Learning to be prudent Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010624210247.00b70cf0@pop3.norton.antivirus> I was out in some choppy water in the Bay over this past weekend, and it got me to thinking again about when to call it a day. While conditions THIS time weren't all that bad, due to inexperience I feel insecure about knowing what's merely uncomfortable vs. stupid (dangerous). Unfortunately, unlike Dirty Harry, I DON'T know my own limitations, and I'd prefer to not find out the hard way. I've asked a number of people for guidelines and haven't really gotten any satisfying answers to date. I'm sure there must be other rookies out there who wonder the same thing. How do you decide when it really is not a good idea to be out on the water? Probably a combination of factors, but I'd appreciate hearing some of the specific criteria that experienced people use to evaluate whether or not to venture out in their trawler. (I'm assuming a completely voluntary trip.) Wind over a certain speed? Wave height more than X'? Small craft advisory? What reasonable benchmarks am I listening for in the forecast to help make that decision to go out or stay in? Since other people's lives may be seriously affected, I think it's one of the most important decisions that the captain makes, yet I feel pretty ill-prepared at the moment to make it. Any help? Richard ------------------------- 49' Marine Trader Pilothouse (1978) SF Bay, CA From pgslo@juno.com Mon Jun 25 02:13:51 2001 From: pgslo@juno.com (pgslo@juno.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:13:51 -0700 Subject: TWL: Tonga Shipwreak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010624.231352.-321683.1.pgslo@juno.com> On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 16:18:18 -0400 John the Civil Engineer writes: > Wow! You actually got to meet the guy himself! I have the book, it > is > called Minerva Reef. Great read. I thought you were much younger than > apparently you are, I was born in 1969! I guess you are just young > in > spirit Message-ID: <23AE217BF800D411B12500D0B73CF36E02B0410E@exchange.affinityla.com> Again, thanks to everyone who answered my questions on the list. This is absolutely the best list on the internet. I have found the solution that works. I use an open end wrench for the lock not and a chain visegrip for the actual adjusting nut. I also purchased a hammer and chisel to keep on the boat since there are grooves in the adjusting nut that others have used in combination with the chisel and hammer to tighten and loosen the nut. the chain visegrips are a wonderful tool and I would recommend them to anyone who does not have a lot of room to throw a wrench handle, they allow adjustment in very tight quarters. My goal is to have a tool box with everything I could need on board. I am also working on the list of spare parts. The problem with spare parts is sometimes where to store them. My list is already getting big. I do believe that I have an engine alignment problem. Thus the cause of the loose stuffing box. Frank Burrows has recommended a great Detroit Diesel guy and a good yard where I live (thanks Frank, I tried to email you but it always returns the email to me). I have spoken to the mechanic and he will be doing work on my engines in July. During haul out in the fall I am going to do the entire drive train from Prop to tranny. For now since there is no (very slight) vibration I am going to use her as is. Thanks again for all of the feedback. Phil Subject: Re: TWL: Re:Tools for tightening the stuffing box From hbrink@earthlink.net Mon Jun 25 09:40:38 2001 From: hbrink@earthlink.net (Harold R. Brink, PE) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:40:38 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: trawler-world-list V4 #358/Re: Vise Grip Copyrighted name In-Reply-To: <20010625040014.2A9FC26251@home.samurai.com> Message-ID: Need this: ? Also, "Home Debit?" From flyjbaker624@aol.com Mon Jun 25 11:02:26 2001 From: flyjbaker624@aol.com (flyjbaker624@aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:02:26 EDT Subject: TWL: RE: Tools for tightening the stuffing box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3c.d8c2a91.2868ac82@aol.com> In a message dated 6/23/2001 9:35:42 PM Central Daylight Time, tonymarshall@hargray.com writes: << Yard mechanics who haven't got working room for spanners often take a hammer and cold chisel or crowbar, both to back off the jam nut, and to complete the adjustment. It seems to work! >> This is how I have to do it. My stuffing box is way down in the keel with about a half inch on each side. No way any type of wrench can fit in there. So you have to hammer away using a chisel. Works just fine. Trawler on, John From jalexander@ticz.com Mon Jun 25 10:03:38 2001 From: jalexander@ticz.com (Jim Alexander) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:03:38 -0400 Subject: TWL: Learning to be prudent Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010625100338.007be380@pop.ticz.com> Richard, Like you, I have asked this same question, although be it in a slightly different form. I am sure that you will receive a myriad of replies, each of a different opinion. I asked this question, more from a stand point of trying to get an answer to the difference between what would be considered a "coastal cruiser" and a "blue water" Trawler. I really never got an answer to that question on this forum. From my perspective, one of years of sailing experience both as owner and charterer, each individual has a different level of attitude towards "limiting" conditions. At least in sailing there is a HUGE difference between "comfort" level and "safety" level when it comes to venturing out into "heavy weather". Generally speaking with a well found sailing craft, the boat will take imeasurable more punishment than the crew is willing to take and do it in relatively safety. In other words, it ain't gonna sink, but you might think it will. This has been proven time and time again when perfectly seaworthy sailing vessels have been found adrift in perfectly good order long after they were abandoned by a crew who radioed for assistance from the Coast Guard, etc. One of the measuring sticks that I used to use when I first got involved in boating was to look around and see "who else is out here". ie, am I the only fool that was willing to risk going beyond the breakwater today? I think that this was a fairly reliable yard stick to judge conditions by. Granted this probably won't always be a reliable way to tell, cause the world is full of fools, but it does help if you can determine what other types of boats seem to be out and about. If you are getting you brains beaten in and you look around and see that you are the only boat on the water, you can pretty well bet that you probably shouldn't be there either! You brought up the issue of "small craft advisories" I have never been able to have anyone give me an actual interpretation or definition of this term. One certainly must exist, but I have yet to find it. I have always sort of thought of it to mean vessels of about less than about 25 feet, but then again I know of quite a few boats in that size range that are much more seaworthy than lots of larger vessels, so maybe overall length is not the defining mechanism. I have very little experience with "Power boats", having yet to purchase a Trawler (I'm looking) and that is why I joined this forum, to try to gain more education prior to making the leap. But, I think I know now that like sailing, Trawlering (if I can use that term) is going to be similar but the "comfort" or rather I should probably say "Uncomfort" level will be reached much, much quicker, than when compared to a sailing craft of similar size. However, with regard to the "safety" issue, I have yet to determine where the two differing type of vessels part ways. I suspect that there is a point where the two will part rather dramatically. From my perspective it boils down to this, while I would never, ever, have wanted to get caught out in "storm" conditions in my 42' Ketch (I have weathered "gale" conditions), I would have at least known that the conditions would be "survivable". I therefore never really had any fear when it came to venturing "off-shore". However, with most Trawlers, I believe the whole picture is different and that one should probably be fearful anytime they consider an offshore passage of any length. Where is the "breking point", heck if I know, but I don't think I want to find out! Maybe I should consider another sailboat afterall? Jim Alexander From LLadd68321@aol.com Mon Jun 25 11:19:16 2001 From: LLadd68321@aol.com (LLadd68321@aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:19:16 EDT Subject: TWL: A/C from an inverter/alt Message-ID: I have a Mermaid a/c of 5200 btu I run from an inverter. It pulls 40 dc 12 volts from the source inv/alt/bat when running, and runs about 20 minutes per hour at night. I use it only for the aft cabin and works well. For a house bank I have 4 pair of Gcart batt. and can run the rifer/freezer/ac over night on a pull of about 220 amps. Have made no attempt to run the big airs from the inverter, and don't want to. Lee Ladd M/V DBL-ELL On the Loop www.dblell.com<<<--website lladd68321@aol.com 513-218-6410 boat and only cell phone From klemmons@airmail.net Mon Jun 25 11:31:46 2001 From: klemmons@airmail.net (Keith) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:31:46 -0500 Subject: TWL: Tools for tightening the stuffing box Message-ID: <3B375962.235493F2@airmail.net> Here's one I bet you've never seen. The Krogen 42 I just bought came with a custom stuffing box wrench, cut out of 1/2" plywood! Seems strong enough... you might have to take a hammer to break the jam nut loose. -- __________________ Keith Bad spellers of the world UNTIE! From adventuresoul@yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 12:29:11 2001 From: adventuresoul@yahoo.com (Dan Symula) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TWL: "essential tools" on board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010625162911.38055.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> A while back we had the essential electronics thread. The therad on stuffing box tools prompted me to kick this off. Here is my short but quickly growing list of "tools". I look forward to others adding on. 1) Wet Dry Shop Vac. Mine is 1/2 gallon. NEED BIGGER!! anyone have good size recommendation? 2) Wire Crimpers/wire 3) Volt Meter. good quality 4) Calders book 5) Sander. 6) Pipe Wrench. large and small. 7) Big Hammer or mallet. (I use this on loosening my nut for the packing gland. Works better than anything I have seen. I tried the big pipe wrneches, even the chain thing someone described. Also someone who ahd special stuffing box loosening tool had a more difficult time than I did with a mallet. This is for my situation that is easy to get at. Could be different but worth a thought) 8) Full compliment of sockets 9) open end/box wrenches. real handy. 10) Drill. Not the wimpy kind.I have a cute cordless that isnt worth its weight in saw dust. Battery spends more time dead than charged. When mine croaked one day, I borrowed a real one. Made the job much much eaasier. 11) Penetrating oil (kroil as has been mentioed or somethign similar) 12) various sizes flat heads and phillips head. (I also used a small flathead to dig out my oldstuffing material. worked great) 13) Some sort of sharp edge, used to cut. 14) Printouts of important threads on TWL. All I can think of that I have. Mine is a simple list right now and hope to add on some serious good tools. What do others have out there in their bag of tricks?? Dan 37 Roughwater "Wen I Dream" ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Thataway@aol.com Mon Jun 25 12:29:38 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:29:38 EDT Subject: TWL: Boarding Steps Message-ID: The ultimate in boarding steps are the true yacht type of gang plank--folding stairs. Don Allen in San Pedro CA used to make these and I think that Marquipt still does. Basically there is a platform (classically a teak grating) about 2 x 2 feet, with a expanding (depending on the tide and drop) set of steps that remain parallel--usually 3 to 5 steps. These are pricey new, but can be found at consignment shops. When at sea these fold up against the rail, virtually flush. Bob Austin From rcrogers6@home.com Mon Jun 25 12:35:02 2001 From: rcrogers6@home.com (Ron Rogers) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:35:02 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: Boarding Steps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023f01c0fd94$c8b90650$a9eaf918@CC890211A> Their very poor website is: http://www.4docking.com/marquipt.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: > The ultimate in boarding steps are the true yacht type of gang plank--folding > stairs. > Don Allen in San Pedro CA used to make these and I think that Marquipt still > does. From scris@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 25 12:34:26 2001 From: scris@worldnet.att.net (Sonny Crisler) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:34:26 -0500 Subject: TWL: Re: "essential tools" on board In-Reply-To: <20010625162911.38055.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000e01c0fd94$b466d880$37ef520c@sonny> Good list, however, I could add one very important tool, gaskets, gasket cutter and hold punch(various sizes). My Lehman is a good engine but whenever I go to replace some gaskets my outlet never has them so I make them. Sonny Crisler M/V Ruby Sea ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Symula To: Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 11:29 AM Subject: TWL: "essential tools" on board > A while back we had the essential electronics thread. > The therad on stuffing box tools prompted me to kick > this off. Here is my short but quickly growing list > of "tools". I look forward to others adding on. > > 1) Wet Dry Shop Vac. Mine is 1/2 gallon. NEED BIGGER!! > anyone have good size recommendation? > 2) Wire Crimpers/wire > 3) Volt Meter. good quality > 4) Calders book > 5) Sander. > 6) Pipe Wrench. large and small. > 7) Big Hammer or mallet. (I use this on loosening my > nut for the packing gland. Works better than anything > I have seen. I tried the big pipe wrneches, even the > chain thing someone described. Also someone who ahd > special stuffing box loosening tool had a more > difficult time than I did with a mallet. This is for > my situation that is easy to get at. Could be > different but worth a thought) > 8) Full compliment of sockets > 9) open end/box wrenches. real handy. > 10) Drill. Not the wimpy kind.I have a cute cordless > that isnt worth its weight in saw dust. Battery spends > more time dead than charged. When mine croaked one > day, I borrowed a real one. Made the job much much > eaasier. > 11) Penetrating oil (kroil as has been mentioed or > somethign similar) > 12) various sizes flat heads and phillips head. (I > also used a small flathead to dig out my oldstuffing > material. worked great) > 13) Some sort of sharp edge, used to cut. > 14) Printouts of important threads on TWL. > > All I can think of that I have. Mine is a simple list > right now and hope to add on some serious good tools. > What do others have out there in their bag of tricks?? > > Dan > 37 Roughwater > "Wen I Dream" > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > From Joe@JRE.com Mon Jun 25 12:54:05 2001 From: Joe@JRE.com (Joe Engel) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:54:05 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: "essential tools" on board Message-ID: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4D8@WINNTSRV> There is an essential tool that is missing. Knee Pads! I find a set of knee pads invaluable for crawling around engine rooms, lazerette, under the bridge and all of those nooks and crannies of most boats. You haven't lived until you've kneeled on a hidden nut. Joe Engel From Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com Mon Jun 25 12:54:53 2001 From: Arild.Jensen@Xantrex.com (Arild Jensen) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:54:53 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: "essential tools" on board Message-ID: <67C475A5ECE7D4118AEC0002B325CAB6A340CF@BCMAIL1> To Dan's list I would add Tubing wrenches. These are essential if you have to work on a fuel line or injectors. They look like box wrenches with a small gap cut in the ring to allow slipping the box over the fuel line. Grips much better than a regular open end wrench. Select sizes to fit your lines. Often sold individually instead of a whole set. Prevents damaging the pipes. Tap and Die set. Used to chase rusty threads before re-assembly. Otherwise you do not get correct torque and possibly not a tight fit. The hardened dies easily cut through rusty scale, etc. The taps also cleans out the blind holes in cast iron engine blocks etc. Apart from that I have used taps and dies to fabricate replacement nuts and bolts from raw bar stock including welder's brazing rod as the occasion required. Over the years my set has returned their purchase cost ten times over. The one size you need is always the one that is out of stock when you need it. Cheers Arild -----Original Message----- From: Dan Symula [mailto:adventuresoul@yahoo.com] Subject: TWL: "essential tools" on board Here is my short but quickly growing list of "tools". 1) . . . .<< snip>> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01 From jgaquin@ici.net Mon Jun 25 13:02:28 2001 From: jgaquin@ici.net (John Gaquin) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:02:28 -0400 Subject: TWL: Re: RE: "essential tools" on board In-Reply-To: <404F63835466D3119F9E00902754EBE7B4D8@WINNTSRV> Message-ID: <003c01c0fd98$a2d37fc0$7715b4cf@computer> From: Joe Engel > I find a set of knee pads invaluable..... Oh, yes! In bold. Underscored. Since my ligament injury this past winter, the knee pads have moved right to the top of the list. Like the Amex, I don't leave home without them!! JG From Thataway@aol.com Mon Jun 25 13:14:56 2001 From: Thataway@aol.com (Thataway@aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:14:56 EDT Subject: TWL: Learning to be prudent Message-ID: <95.c755139.2868cb90@aol.com> Richard has a M T 49 Pilot house on San Franscisco Bay. Generally the fetch on the Bay system is limited so seas rarely get to be more than 6 to 8 feet. The major problem up there is wind against current and steepness of seas/breaking. However with this size of boat I would probably venture forth on most days. Where the difference would be going out the gate. Especially going over the shoals. A secret up there is to always stay in deep water--out to the outer sea bouy. Do not cut the corner --yes there is enough depth, but those big Pacific rollers have many miles of sea to build and they steepen and break. Small craft advisory generally is a hazardous conditions for just that small and less seaworthy boats. For example I would not go out in a SCA in my 12 foot alumium dinghy--I do occasionally get caught out in my 20 foot Grady White (Self bailing with plenty of power) and have no problems and I would have no problem going out in the Symbol 42. Heck we sailed the opti nationals (8 foot prams) under small craft advisory conditions last summer--but with lots of safety boats, in relitatively sheltered waters. With the M T 49 I would have no fear of Small Craft advisories--but would make sure that I was not in an area of long fetch and could safely get my boat back to the dock and dock it. I would not consider 6 to 8 foot waves hazardous for your boat. I would prefer to take them on the bow and I assume that you have adequate power (twin screws, not the single engine). Frankly there are very few of the boats on this list I would be happy with taking out in Gale conditions and virtually none under Storm conditions. In my sail boats I would not go looking for Gales or Storms, but if they occured I felt reasonably safe. Here is what NOAA says: SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY: To alert mariners to sustained (more than two hours) weather or sea conditions, either present or forecast, that might be hazardous to small boats. If a mariner notices a Small Craft Advisory pennant displayed he should determine immediately the reason by tuning his radio to the latest marine broadcast. Decision as to the degree of hazard will be left up to the boatman, based on his experience and size and type of boat. The threshold conditions for the Small Craft Advisory are usually 18 knots of wind (less than 18 knots in some dangerous waters) or hazardous wave conditions. GALE WARNING: To indicate winds within the range 34 to 47 knots are forecast for the area. STORM WARNING: To indicate winds 48 knots and above, no matter how high the speed, are forecast for the area. However, if the winds are associated with a tropical cyclone (hurricane), the STORM WARNING indicates that winds within the range 48-63 knots are forecast. HURRICANE WARNING: Issued only in connection with a tropical cyclone (hurricane) to indicate that winds 64 knots and above are forecast for the area. Bob Austin Symbol 42 Pensacola, FL From LRZeitlin@aol.com Mon Jun 25 13:20:46 2001 From: LRZeitlin@aol.com (LRZeitlin@aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:20:46 EDT Subject: TWL: Re: new name Message-ID: In a message dated 6/25/01 4:12:16 AM, Phil writes: << Home Debit >> I like that. Larry Zeitlin From jschroeder1@uswest.net Mon Jun 25 13:25:08 2001 From: jschroeder1@uswest.net (Jerome A. Schroeder) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:25:08 -0700 Subject: TWL: RE: Learning to be prudent In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010625100338.007be380@pop.ticz.com> Message-ID: > You brought up the issue of "small craft advisories" I > have never been > able to have anyone give me an actual interpretation or definition of this > term. One certainly must exist, but I have yet to find it. I have always > sort of thought of it to mean vessels of about less than about 25 > feet, but > then again I know of quite a few boats in that size range that are much > more seaworthy than lots of larger vessels, so maybe overall length is not > the defining mechanism. > Like you I've been puzzled by the term, and found an explanation in the 63rd edition of Chapman Piloting, page 325. I quote: "The term 'small craft advisory' needs some explanation. Small craft as defined by the Weather Service are 'small boats, yachts, tugs, barges with little freeboard or any low-powered craft.' A small craft advisory does not distinguish between the expectation of a general all-day blow of 25 knots or more and, for example, a forecast of isolated late-afternoon thundersqualls in which winds dangerous to small craft will be localized and of short duration. It is up to you to deduce from your own observations, supplemented by any information you can obtain from radio broadcasts, which type of situation the advisiory applies to, and how to plan your day's cruising accordingly." My interpretation is, "Go out if you want, but keep up with the weather reports." I've got a boat designed for Bristol Bay waters. It handles storm conditions with ease. But, I'm finding as my skills and knowledge increase, my willingness to take chances is decreasing. Puget Sound and the PacNW in general has rapidly changing weather patterns. When I hear "small craft advisory" I assume that we are in for a blow, and unless the circumstances are unusual, stay at the dock even tho I know that my skills and boat can handle most problems. I've occaisionally been disappointed, and the day has turned out fine. But, not that often. > I have very little experience with "Power boats", having > yet to purchase a > Trawler (I'm looking) and that is why I joined this forum, to try to gain > more education prior to making the leap. Like many sailors, I've come late in life to "Power Boats." A sailing friend glared at me and said: "You've surrendered to the dark force." Perhaps, but I've spent too many days becalmed, or with adverse winds. I found that I was spending a lot of time under power, so I finally gave in. Still, one of the charms of sailing is the sense of smug superiority you have over the typical weekend boater and his plastic Bimbo/Party boat. Buying into trawlers or trollers allows you to keep some of that attitude. Long distance power cruising is not for the ignorami, and requires a set of knowledge at least as complicated and sophisticated as sailing. If I no longer worry about the precise set of my sails, or my ability to point, I can concern myself with fuel efficiency, navigation and good boat design. Aesthetics are still important. Some power boats look good, most do not. Not so strangely, efficient, seaworthy power boats are very attractive. I miss sailing, but like the idea of being able to plan on reaching my destination at the end of the day. I still own a small day sailor. I would suggest that if you are still in the considering stage, you might read George Buehler's "The Troller Yacht Book" and follow that with Beebe's "Voyaging under Power." These two guys cover 95% of your questions. Questions that you didn't even know you had. Jerry Schroeder M/V Surprise 21' Ranger R21 Ballard WA From ftimpano@infi.net Mon Jun 25 13:32:51 2001 From: ftimpano@infi.net (ftimpano@infi.net) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:32:51 -0400 Subject: TWL: Learning to be prudent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As regards judging boating conditions: I had many of the same concerns when I first started boating (as an adult) 10 years ago. The rule I followed was to gain experience little by little until I had confidence to handle conditions. WHile planning this is not always possible (getting caught in a thunderstorm, for example)I gained confidence as my experience grew. As another member noted, it's often the crew that will call it quits before the boat. I boat on the Chesapeake, where steep, short waves are the norm. I've never seen any over 6-8 feet, (dont' know that they can get any bigger here) and I never felt in danger in my 38 foot Hatteras in these conditions. A little green around the gills maybe, but never fearful. Small craft advisories were never a problem, and I went out many times when smaller boats were tied up. I am, by nature, a cautious boater, and I, too, ha