BST: 43' Marine Trader Sundeck
Michael &Teresa Wheeler
mtwheeler3 at yahoo.com
Tue May 13 10:20:46 EDT 2008
NOTHING SELLS UNTIL IT IS PRICED RIGHT
Thanks you for your thoughts, Tommy. I appreciate your logic and the fact
you have completed the loop. Congratulations! I'm sure you had great fun and
made many friends. I do have some disagreement with your logic, however but
I see the reason for your position. If I were a seller I would have
responded the same way, but I am neither a seller nor a buyer. I have a boat
that is OK with me.
I agree. If you are going to completely redecorate a boat it is best to buy
one that needs new appliances, soft goods, dink, counter tops, generator,
canvas etc. BUT the selling price MUST reflect the cost of those
improvements that the NEW owner must pay.
Too many sellers want a "hot boat market price" when the boat market is in
intensive care and they complain each week to their broker about "Why can't
you sell my boat!?" Too many boats go unsold for long periods of time
because sellers are asking a price that reflects the value of the boat AFTER
the refit has been completed. It will be the NEW owner that does the work
and spends many thousands of dollars bringing the boat back to life...NOT
the seller. My point is: buy a boat that is structurally sound, with those
features you believe will fit your cruising plans and pay a price that
reflects all of the modifications and updates you require and pay a fair
price. Make sure you have fully considered HOW you will use the boat and buy
a boat intended for that use or you may regret ever stepping foot on it.
There are WAY too many boats on the market and many of them have been for
sale for several years. Be thoughtful, careful and choose wisely.
We are currently living/traveling in our Dutch Star, diesel motor home as we
plan to once again see the interior of this beautiful country by land. At 65
MPH it gets about 8.5 MPG. We arrived in Branson, MO. a week ago after
leaving our winter home in the Florida Keys. The best price we saw for fuel
was $4.04 per gallon on the entire 1168 mile trip. Last year it was around
$2.00 pg. on the same route. We never once saw fuel for the low prices you
quoted. In fact, they were much higher.
As we were leaving, our friends at our marina complained bitterly about the
price of fuel and to a man, 9 in all were present at our departure coffee
club meeting, were making plans to either cut way back on fishing or
cruising. 3 of the 9 were wanting to sell their boats this summer season, 2
of the 9 had listed their boats within the last month and they attributed
the #1 reason was, the high price of fuel AND it appears fuel prices WILL
continue to rise. 1 of our hardcore regular cruisers wants to down size from
his 53' to about 40' and is shopping right now. We are going to check a boat
for him next week. Why? Because fuel and maintenance is wasting his money.
In public he proclaims louder than anyone that "Fuel prices are really just
about right considering how much mass we are pushing threw the water!" (he's
a boat Seller) but when you get him alone, he nearly chokes on the fuel bill
to get to Key West and back. His boat is big, comfortable, well tuned and
cared for in every way but the high price of fuel is hurting this long time
cruiser and his boat has been listed with a top broker for more than a year.
No lookers. NOT ONE!
There are a lot of single engine or small economical running twin engine
trawlers out there just waiting to be loved and enjoyed by a new owner, but
if the boat has neglected maintenance issues, needs a refit or other major
expenses like paint or a new engine, transmission, electronics etc. the ONLY
way the seller will get rid of his boat is to perform the work needed OR
lower the price until it is attractive enough to convince a buyer to make a
fair offer. Nothing sells until it is priced right!
Capt. Seadog
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Terrific" <circumnavigate06 at bellsouth.net>
To: "Michael &Teresa Wheeler" <mtwheeler3 at yahoo.com>; "Peter North"
<peter at northco.org>; <trawler-buy-sell-trade at lists.samurai.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: BST: 43' Marine Trader Sundeck
> Michael and Teresa,
>
> I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. While in principal you are correct, in
> reality you are not.
> First, many buyers (myself included) would like to pay something less than
> full market for a boat, because we figure that we will own it for a
> reasonable period of time, and would like to have the interior done to
> suit OUR tastes, not theirs. So why pay full market value for a boat in
> meticulous condition when in fact, we are going to rip it up, strip it
> down and then, build it back up again with things in OUR taste.
>
> As far as the cost of fuel, well it is a consideration, but probably not
> too big of one. We looped in 2003/04 when fuel cost about $0.94/gallon.
> We traveled quite a bit further than most loopers, going up several of the
> side rivers. Our total cruise hours was 1,111. Given that we consumed
> approximately 1.86gph, that would mean we used approximately, 2067 gallons
> of fuel. At the 2003 price, the trip cost $1,943 in fuel. At today's
> cost of about $3.80 (just got quoted $3.64 in Florida) the same trip would
> cost $7855, or about $5912 more. In the overall scope of things
> (especially when one considers what other things have increased during
> that period), that is pretty small. Most people that are buying boats to
> loop on, or to just cruise on, are in the mid-to-upper reaches of general
> incomes, so a $6000 increase in fuel costs (probably a lot less as most
> loopers travel around 600 hours) is, yes a pain in the butt, but not a
> deal breaker. And as a seller, I won't even consider it as a factor.
> Tommy
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael &Teresa Wheeler" <mtwheeler3 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Peter North" <peter at northco.org>;
> <trawler-buy-sell-trade at lists.samurai.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: BST: 43' Marine Trader Sundeck
>
>
>>A LESSON IN THE ART OF SELLING A BOAT
>>
>> You have posed a very good question. Whether it is smarter to buy now -
>> while prices are continuing to slowly fall, or wait and see what happens
>> after the election, kids are on their own, house is paid off, I get that
>> promotion I deserve if I don't get downsized ETC. There are always lots
>> of
>> good reasons to wait to buy or sell. It all depends on your threshold for
>> pain and how much we REALLY want to go cruising.
>>
>> I have some very good friends who asked my wife and me to inspect several
>> boats on their behalf. They will only buy a single engine, diesel,
>> trawler,
>> 42' to 50', prefer fiberglass will consider steel, NOT a project boat,
>> fairly priced considering the "buyer's market", walk-around queen bed, no
>> teak decks, etc.. So far we have seen 5 boats owned by "motivated
>> sellers"
>> and suggested they make an offer on one of them. They came, they saw and
>> they made the offer. FULL PRICE! The boat failed the survey and sunk 3
>> months later with the new owner on board who failed to hire a good
>> surveyor.
>> (He and his crew all survived with no injuries.) The surveyor I suggested
>> is
>> good and saw a couple of serious problems when it was pulled out of the
>> water that were not readily available to me. They still have confidence
>> in
>> me even after all that.
>>
>> They are not interested in "stealing" a boat. They are happy to pay a
>> fair
>> price given the current market and the condition of the boat. If the boat
>> needs soft goods, appliances, generator and electronics up dated, or
>> painted, neither they (nor anyone else) will pay a price as if all that
>> work
>> and expense is already done. In this ultra soft market, in order to sell,
>> a
>> boat must be spotlessly clean in every nook and cranny as well as the
>> BEST
>> buy out there or your boat is only one of many. Soap and water are cheap!
>>
>> When we sold our last boat, a well-respected American made trawler, we
>> invested time in looking at all other boats similar in construction
>> regardless of where it was built and the over all condition, then we
>> compared the prices. We learned there were 4 other similar boats in
>> similar
>> shape and features on the market at that time. There were a total of 11
>> other boats in our size and price range, but only 4 were truly comparable
>> to
>> ours. 3 of those were listed so we contacted the brokers and learned the
>> owners were "ready to deal". Our price had to drop $40K in order to be
>> far
>> below the asking prices of the comparable boats. We sold the boat in 2
>> weeks
>> while all 4 of the other similar boats are still on the market 2 years 2
>> months later! 2 of those boats have dropped their asking prices to $10K
>> LESS
>> than we got for our boat over 2 years ago....and still no takers. (Your
>> threshold for pain?)
>>
>> For sellers, you must consider how much fun you will have when you
>> finally
>> get rid of the boat. Money isn't everything. Just be glad you have a real
>> buyer with the money. They are much more rare than a good deal on a
>> boat...these days.
>>
>> For buyers, know exactly what you want to use your boat for, the features
>> you require and the price you are willing to pay. Don't waste sellers'
>> time
>> looking at a boat that cruises at 20 knots if all you want is a floating
>> condo so you can live at the local marina. If what you truly want to do
>> with
>> your boat is cruise the coast and the islands, then don't waste a
>> seller's
>> time that is hoping to sell a sport fish, for instance. A true cruising
>> boat
>> must be comfortable for you and your full time crew. If you are really
>> going cruising, fiberglass, semi to full displacement with as little
>> outside
>> maintenance as possible and affordable to operate are keys to your long
>> term
>> satisfaction with your boat selection. If you have never lived and
>> cruised
>> on a boat for long periods of time (5 years or so), believe me, you can
>> grow
>> to curse the day you bought the boat.
>>
>> Talk, email and read everything you can before you write that check! You
>> do
>> NOT want to have a boat FOR SALE in this market.
>>
>> Our friends, for example, lived aboard their boat for 3-1/2 years and
>> cruised the East Coast from Maine to Key West continuously. At that time
>> they had a sail boat that was economical to own and operate. These days,
>> with fuel expected to hit $6.50 per gallon by 2010, if you can believe
>> the
>> talking heads on TV, power boats are about to take a huge nose dive in
>> value.
>>
>> Our current boat is nearly 48' LOA, 15' beam, 4'8" draft, trawler speed
>> (7-8
>> Kt), no teak decks, and worth about 50% of what we paid for it 2 years
>> ago.
>> Our LRC is one of those "in high demand boats" that brokers like to sell.
>> Our fellow owners get a great deal of joy at rendezvous telling sea
>> stories
>> and brag about how other boat owners envy them at the yacht club. The
>> truth
>> is everyone of us in the club paid about double of what the boats are
>> really
>> worth in today's market. The fact is, any Defever, most Marine Traders,
>> and
>> several other brand names are not only as good as our gold-plater, but in
>> many ways exceed the value of our boat for accommodations and economy,
>> safety, and comfort. If we were to put our boat on the market today, the
>> brokers would most assuredly suggest an asking price of $195K to $250K.
>> Based on my investigation for my friends mentioned above, I believe a
>> comparable well found yacht by any other name could be purchased in the
>> $100K range. It is my strong opinion that very same boat will be
>> available
>> for sale within the next 12 months for $75K-$80K, because fuel prices are
>> expected to flood the market with power boats. Please forgive the pun. It
>> is
>> my opinion, even the highly rated, some say over-rated Nordhaven will be
>> taking a beating in the months ahead.
>>
>> In short, for Sellers - take that hit now and get rid of it. For Buyers -
>> the best price is yet to come, but will you be able to afford to go
>> anywhere
>> once you bought it?
>>
>> Capt. Seadog
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter North" <peter at northco.org>
>> To: <trawler-buy-sell-trade at lists.samurai.com>
>> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:18 AM
>> Subject: BST: 43' Marine Trader Sundeck
>>
>>
>>> It's been rather quiet on here with few sellers or buyers lately. I
>>> wonder
>>> if sellers are holding on because they think it's not the right time to
>>> sell
>>> and serious buyers are holding off because they want to see if they can
>>> get
>>> a better buy. If you are a buyer when do you think it is the right time
>>> to
>>> buy?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well the time has come as a serious seller I'm reducing the price
>>> another
>>> $10,000 to $89,000 for a solid glass semi-displacement hull with
>>> excellent
>>> low hour (1200 hr.) Volvo diesels. If I needed a serious powerboat this
>>> would be it, just do not have the need anymore and want to move on. Two
>>> homes, four cars, several smaller boats and two full time jobs leaves
>>> very
>>> little time for the big boat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For Sale By Owner - Located East Boothbay Maine
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1984 Marine Trader Labelle - Covered Sundeck Model
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Design Information
>>>
>>> L.O.A 43 ft.
>>>
>>> Beam 14 ft. 2in.
>>>
>>> Draft 3 ft.
>>>
>>> Speed 9 kts cruise @2250, displacement speed
>>> 7.5
>>> kts
>>>
>>> Fuel consumption 6 GPH at cruise, 4 GPH at displacement speed
>>>
>>> Fuel 350 gal
>>>
>>> Water 200 gal
>>>
>>> Builder Built by Bestway for Marine Trader at
>>> Eagle Trawler Yard
>>>
>>> Designer John Simpson of British Columbia (have
>>> drawaings)
>>>
>>> Engines Twin Volvo TAMD40B Diesels 1200 hrs.
>>>
>>> Onan 7.5 Diesel Generator 200 hrs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Upper and lower helm stations. Large galley down with convertible
>>> dinette
>>> and full size refrigerator/freezer. Huge full beam Master stateroom in
>>> stern, with separate head with tub/shower. Salon with L shaped
>>> convertible
>>> sofa recently recovered. Forward stateroom with V-berth and head. New
>>> dual
>>> station Simrad autopilot, 2 VHF's, 2 new depthsounders. Stainless 40
>>> lb.
>>> CQR and windlass. Hot water baseboard and toe kick heaters, new Beckett
>>> oil
>>> burner. New Lectrasan treatment system. Enclosed covered sundeck 12X12
>>> great for lounging and boat watching.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More from recent refit:
>>>
>>> New fuel lines, 3 new racors, new electrical wiring in engine room, 3
>>> recent
>>> AGM 8D batteries. Starboard cutlass bearings replaced, new larger Bomon
>>> windows installed in Salon, new Bomon windows just installed in Master
>>> stateroom, 350' or new anchor rode. Cabin floors refinished teak and
>>> holly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a solid glass hull that is designed for semi-displacement speeds
>>> for
>>> reduced rock and roll. The hull is in excellent shape with great
>>> original
>>> gel coat and clean bottom. We are selling due to a change in plans.
>>> Asking
>>> $89,000 including launch in mid-coastal Maine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Link is to pics taken before new windows were installed.
>>>
>>> http://groups.msn.com/TrawlerMV/mvpolaris.msnw
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter A. North, CFPR
>>>
>>> North & Company, LLC (www.northco.org)
>>>
>>> Bath, Maine
>>>
>>> 207-319-7580
>>> _______________________________________________
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