[PCW] Power-Cat and the Volvo IPS or MercCruiser
Mark & Josie Bowerman
markb61 at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 29 09:04:13 EST 2007
The Africat is available with the pods. This is well known, well advertised information that I'm surprised that Rod doesn't know? To answer another question yes the pods tear off to prevent hull damage and sinking. It seems that I read somewhere that the replacement cost was something like 15K for a damaged pod, ouch!
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems (rodgibbons at mindspring.com)
2. Re: Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems (Tradesure)
3. Re: Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems (Roger Bingham)
4. Re: Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems (Suzanne & Lloyd Kubis)
5. Re: Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems (Tradesure)
6. Re: Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems (Roger Bingham)
7. Re: Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems (Robert Deering)
8. Power-Cat and the Volvo IPS or MercCruiser (Dennis Raedeke)
9. anchors (Jonah Jones)
10. Power trimaran sighting (Georgs Kolesnikovs)
11. anchors (Bob Kupps)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:20:47 -0500 (EST)
From: rodgibbons at mindspring.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus
Drive systems
To: power-catamaran at lists.samurai.com
Message-ID:
<9717691.1198822847778.JavaMail.root at mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
DISCLAIMER: This letter written by a catamaran dealer.
Hello power-cat fans,
Here's a question (especially to the cat designers and builders who read this site) regarding a pair of new propulsion systems. I'm wondering if any of you know of any power cats that are offering (as standard or optional equipment) either of the new "pod-drive" systems? That is, either (a) the Volvo Penta IPS (Inboard Propulsion System), distinctive for its forward-facing props, or (b) the Cummins MerCruiser Zeus Drive (aft-facing props) system?
As a catamaran dealer, I've just happened upon the most clear-reading and understandable article about these two systems that I've seen thus far. The article, "The Pod-Drive Revolution" (by Chuck Husick) is in the newest issue (Jan/Feb 2008) of "POWER CRUISING" magazine. The purported benefits (lighter weight, less draft, no rudders, usually undetectable exhaust fumes, quicker pick-up performance, no need for muffler, or water-intake thru-hulls, 20% better fuel consumption, etc.) are, understandably, appealing. But I'm wondering if there's anything about the catamaran design that presents a possible drawback to this new propulsion system? The fact that some major monohull yacht builders (Grand Banks' 41 Heritage, Legacy Yachts and Sabre Yachts) are now employing one or the other of these 2 systems proves there's growing (and serious) support.
So, any cat lovers out there, designers/builders or not, who have any first-hand feedback about either of these systems?
Thanks in advance,
Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
Seattle, Portland, Oakland, Hawaii
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:52:30 +0100
From: "Tradesure"
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus
Drive systems
To: , "Power Catamaran List"
Message-ID: <001401c84926$b32b1870$9503a8c0 at lesley630e5815>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Rob,
We have looked at these motors and they certainly have many
advantages, except
one which is important to cats generally, weight distribution.
IPS 350 (260hp) weighs 790kg
Yanmar 6BY220Z (260hp) with gear 365kg
IPS 600 (435hp) weighs 910kg
Yanmar 6LY28STP (440hp) with gear weighs 558 kg
Times that by 2 motors and fitted onto the stern of the boat, equals
excessive.
Tim Jordaan
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems
> DISCLAIMER: This letter written by a catamaran dealer.
>
> Hello power-cat fans,
>
> Here's a question (especially to the cat designers and builders who read
> this site) regarding a pair of new propulsion systems. I'm wondering if
> any of you know of any power cats that are offering (as standard or
> optional equipment) either of the new "pod-drive" systems? That is,
> either (a) the Volvo Penta IPS (Inboard Propulsion System), distinctive
> for its forward-facing props, or (b) the Cummins MerCruiser Zeus Drive
> (aft-facing props) system?
>
> As a catamaran dealer, I've just happened upon the most clear-reading and
> understandable article about these two systems that I've seen thus far.
> The article, "The Pod-Drive Revolution" (by Chuck Husick) is in the newest
> issue (Jan/Feb 2008) of "POWER CRUISING" magazine. The purported benefits
> (lighter weight, less draft, no rudders, usually undetectable exhaust
> fumes, quicker pick-up performance, no need for muffler, or water-intake
> thru-hulls, 20% better fuel consumption, etc.) are, understandably,
> appealing. But I'm wondering if there's anything about the catamaran
> design that presents a possible drawback to this new propulsion system?
> The fact that some major monohull yacht builders (Grand Banks' 41
> Heritage, Legacy Yachts and Sabre Yachts) are now employing one or the
> other of these 2 systems proves there's growing (and serious) support.
>
> So, any cat lovers out there, designers/builders or not, who have any
> first-hand feedback about either of these systems?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Rod Gibbons
> Cruising Cats USA
> Seattle, Portland, Oakland, Hawaii
> _______________________________________________
> Power-Catamaran Mailing List
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date:
> 12/26/2007 5:26 PM
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:22:21 +0100
From: "Roger Bingham"
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus
Drive systems
To: "'Power Catamaran List'"
,
Message-ID: <00c001c84933$275794b0$7606be10$@fr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tim et al
The figures quoted are not really a fair comparisons for these engines.
The nomenclature for the Volvo Penta IPS drives represent the hp equivalents
of standard shaft drive installations therefore:-
The IPS 350 should be compared with a 350hp installation not a 260hp
Equally the IPS 600 should be compared with a 600hp setup not a 350hp
The Yanmar 6LYA-STP at 370hp weighs in (dry) at around 600kg
These comparisons together with the proven advantages of "pod drives" makes
them a better proposition than Tim's figures suggest.
Also these big engines would be fitted to big, planing cats and as such
represent a more acceptable proportion of the total mass of the vessel.
Yes?
No?
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
> Rob,
> We have looked at these motors and they certainly have many
> advantages, except
> one which is important to cats generally, weight distribution.
>
> IPS 350 (260hp) weighs 790kg
> Yanmar 6BY220Z (260hp) with gear 365kg
>
> IPS 600 (435hp) weighs 910kg
> Yanmar 6LY28STP (440hp) with gear weighs 558 kg
>
> Times that by 2 motors and fitted onto the stern of the boat, equals
> excessive.
>
>
> Tim Jordaan
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:32:42 +1000
From: "Suzanne & Lloyd Kubis"
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus
Drive systems
To: , "Power Catamaran List"
Message-ID: <001101c84934$9f8b6960$0a01a8c0 at Study>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Noosa Cat here in Australia trialled a pair of Volvo IPS's on one of their
Power Cats about a year ago but I have not seen anything since. They claimed
increased performance and were generally positive about the trial. Not sure if
they're offering them as an option or not but I'm sure a call to them would
clear that up!
Cheers!
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: rodgibbons at mindspring.com
To: power-catamaran at lists.samurai.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems
DISCLAIMER: This letter written by a catamaran dealer.
Hello power-cat fans,
Here's a question (especially to the cat designers and builders who read
this site) regarding a pair of new propulsion systems. I'm wondering if any
of you know of any power cats that are offering (as standard or optional
equipment) either of the new "pod-drive" systems? That is, either (a) the
Volvo Penta IPS (Inboard Propulsion System), distinctive for its
forward-facing props, or (b) the Cummins MerCruiser Zeus Drive (aft-facing
props) system?
As a catamaran dealer, I've just happened upon the most clear-reading and
understandable article about these two systems that I've seen thus far. The
article, "The Pod-Drive Revolution" (by Chuck Husick) is in the newest issue
(Jan/Feb 2008) of "POWER CRUISING" magazine. The purported benefits (lighter
weight, less draft, no rudders, usually undetectable exhaust fumes, quicker
pick-up performance, no need for muffler, or water-intake thru-hulls, 20%
better fuel consumption, etc.) are, understandably, appealing. But I'm
wondering if there's anything about the catamaran design that presents a
possible drawback to this new propulsion system? The fact that some major
monohull yacht builders (Grand Banks' 41 Heritage, Legacy Yachts and Sabre
Yachts) are now employing one or the other of these 2 systems proves there's
growing (and serious) support.
So, any cat lovers out there, designers/builders or not, who have any
first-hand feedback about either of these systems?
Thanks in advance,
Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
Seattle, Portland, Oakland, Hawaii
_______________________________________________
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:53:19 +0100
From: "Tradesure"
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus
Drive systems
To: "Power Catamaran List"
Message-ID: <001701c84937$7a2149d0$9503a8c0 at lesley630e5815>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Roger,
the specification of the IPS 350 has a crankshaft output of
260hp at 3.500rpm
the IPS 600 a crankshaft output of 435hp at 3500rpm, maybe there
are other
interpretations regarding HP.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Bingham"
To: "'Power Catamaran List'"
;
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus Drive
systems
> Tim et al
>
> The figures quoted are not really a fair comparisons for these engines.
>
> The nomenclature for the Volvo Penta IPS drives represent the hp
> equivalents
> of standard shaft drive installations therefore:-
>
> The IPS 350 should be compared with a 350hp installation not a 260hp
> Equally the IPS 600 should be compared with a 600hp setup not a 350hp
>
> The Yanmar 6LYA-STP at 370hp weighs in (dry) at around 600kg
>
> These comparisons together with the proven advantages of "pod drives"
> makes
> them a better proposition than Tim's figures suggest.
>
> Also these big engines would be fitted to big, planing cats and as such
> represent a more acceptable proportion of the total mass of the vessel.
>
> Yes?
>
> No?
>
> Regards
>
> Roger Bingham
> France
>
>
>> Rob,
>> We have looked at these motors and they certainly have many
>> advantages, except
>> one which is important to cats generally, weight distribution.
>>
>> IPS 350 (260hp) weighs 790kg
>> Yanmar 6BY220Z (260hp) with gear 365kg
>>
>> IPS 600 (435hp) weighs 910kg
>> Yanmar 6LY28STP (440hp) with gear weighs 558 kg
>>
>> Times that by 2 motors and fitted onto the stern of the boat, equals
>> excessive.
>>
>>
>> Tim Jordaan
> _______________________________________________
> Power-Catamaran Mailing List
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date:
> 12/27/2007 1:34 PM
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:34:57 +0100
From: "Roger Bingham"
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus
Drive systems
To: "'Power Catamaran List'"
Message-ID: <00ca01c8493d$4c0974e0$e41c5ea0$@fr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I appreciate what you are saying, Tim, but that the power output quoted
below are absolute terms.
What Volvo say is that because of the increased efficiency etc etc of the
IPS drive - their 260hp engine connected to an IPS drive equates to an
output of 350hp for an engine connected through a standard reduction gear.
Therefore a builder can use a lower rated IPS engine for the same/similar
performance envelope of a larger "standard" installation.
Their claim/explanation - not mine.
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
>
> Roger,
> the specification of the IPS 350 has a crankshaft output of
> 260hp at 3.500rpm
> the IPS 600 a crankshaft output of 435hp at 3500rpm, maybe
> there
> are other
> interpretations regarding HP.
>
> Tim
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:37:58 -0900
From: Robert Deering
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power-Cats and the Volvo IPS or MerCruiser Zeus
Drive systems
To: 'Power Catamaran List'
Message-ID: <001001c8494e$7a2f3510$1901a8c0 at BobTablet>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a few questions on these drives too:
1. When you hit an object in the water, such as a log, what is the failure
mode of the IPS?
2. Will the pod shear away before that very large thru-hull penetration
fails?
3. If the IPS is seriously damaged, what is the replacement cost?
4. How much fuel can you purchase for the price of a replacement IPS pod?
Bob Deering
Juneau, Alaska
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:23:02 -0600
From: "Dennis Raedeke"
Subject: [PCW] Power-Cat and the Volvo IPS or MercCruiser
To: "Power Catamaran List"
Message-ID: <002301c8495d$28b90760$8702a8c0 at dennisr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I always thought this type of drive would be great until you come to the fact
that there is no rudder. Even with the big rudders on Wild Wind IV, running
down wind keeping your course requires a lot of steering. It's fine if you can
run fast, but you can't always do that. I spoke to a power-cat ferry skipper
on the east coast. His boat had jets and no rudders. He stated he almost lost
his boat on several occasions because of the lack of rudders.
I guess you could add them. That would take some efficiency away.
As with everything else, one type system doesn't fit all.
I think it's great new technology now that they are coming out with it in the
size most of us can use. When I researched this years before, it was only
available for big applications.
Regards,
Dennis
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:43:57 -0400
From: Jonah Jones
Subject: [PCW] anchors
To: Power Catamaran List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
looking for feedback on ground tackle.
Will have a single winch on 48ft cat and rocna type 40 kg anchor.
What best as back up anchor(s) and will I miss having a second winch
system on a cat?
Jonah.
www.jonah-art.com
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:43:42 -0500
From: Georgs Kolesnikovs
Subject: [PCW] Power trimaran sighting
To: Power Catamaran List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yes, Virginia, there are power trimarans, although they are few and
far between.
Go to
.
See also the links at right under Trimarans when you're there.
--Georgs
--
Georgs Kolesnikovs
Power Catamaran World
http://www.powercatamaranworld.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:22:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Kupps
Subject: [PCW] anchors
To: powercat list
Message-ID: <104583.61926.qm at web52204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jonah,
On my 50' alloy (motorsailer) cat which has a cruising displacement of about 10 tons the main anchor is a 33kg Rocna (not a Rocna "type" e.g. Manson - a cheap knockoff copy) on 60 m of 10mm chain and 90 m of rope. For secondary anchors I have a Fortress FX 55 with the flukes set at 45 deg for mud, and a Spade A 140 as a general backup. Both of the alloy anchors have 15 m chain + rope rodes and are light enough to deploy/retrieve from the RIB if need be. The main anchor is operated from a Muir vertical windlass with a rope/chain gypsy and the secondary anchors use its vertical capstan and a separate bow roller. I prefer steel for the main anchor though, and have heard anecdotal reports of alloy shank failures in the Spade (the steel version of which I used with great success on my last cat). I don't know if your cat has sails, but if so one of the primary winches can usually be pressed into service in the event of a windlass failure.
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