[PUP] What the future holds for building passagemaker boats

Fri Nov 14 17:47:40 EST 2008

Peter,

I believe I'd take a piece of that bet.

While there are a number of nice boats that are being (and have been) built
in both Taiwanese and mainland Chinese yards, there were/are also a lot of
dogs.  The successful yards that are turning out quality boats are a result
of tight design and manufacturing controls from right here at home.  Most
yards that didn't have that direction or didn't listen have gone by the
wayside and a few are still building dogs.

The Chinese may have been the "original masters of seafaring" but the
average guy that put your Nordhavn together has never been on a boat - in
the water.    That's not to say he isn't a good carpenter or electrician but
you wouldn't even recognize your boat if it had been built there without
someone from Nordhavn constantly directing the process.  Their "innate
business skills" are to be admired, but as an owner you would probably not
want that to have played to big a part in building your boat - think
substitution of cheaper materials by someone who had never owned or
maintained a boat or even worked on one that had been used before.

As Brian just said, it's Labor cost.  You can bet that Nordhavn's would be
built here in the US were it not for the difference in labor cost and
environmental controls. 

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
brian.smyth at ns.sympatico.ca
Sent: Friday, 14 November, 2008 12:24
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: Re: [PUP] What the future holds for building passagemaker boats

Just wanted to say that in my opinion, it is a shame to hear this attitude
towards North Amreican builders.

Boats are being built in China for one reason only...LABOR COST!

A typical 50 footer has roughly 15000-20000 man hours in the build.  Do the
math!

I believe our economy and manufacturing sectors wouldn't be hurting so badly
if more people supported local industry to give back a little to the country
that gave them so much!

Just my opinion.....

Brian
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "David Evans" <highpressure at gmail.com>

Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:38:16 
To: Passagemaking Under Power
List<passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Subject: Re: [PUP] What the future holds for building passagemaker boats

Peter,

That is an interesting bet. I follow the  Selene Owners Forum, and I attempt
to learn as much as possible about Nordhavn and their systems as possible
without access to the Nordhavn's Owners Forum, by following forums such as
this. ( this forum is the only Nordhavn  Forum that is open to the public).

For instance, The Selene Owners Forum has recently had a lengthy dialogue
about bilge odors, apparently caused by plumbing issues with their vented
loops. I don't know if Nordhavn owners discuss similar issues on their
forum.

There was another discussion about a swim step ladder hatch( and cracks in
the fiberglass from water invading the PLYWOOD core) that I did not see the
Selene Factory fully explain or state that they have corrected this design
issue. Here again, I do not know If Nordhavn owners have similar
design/build issues, because their forum is closed ( and the owners make a
good case for keeping it closed)

Selene Owners seem to like the fact that prospective owners can listen in
and ask questions in the theory that it keeps the big boys honest, or at
least gives everyone a sense of editorial justice.

With that being said, Selene founder Howard Chen says he aspires to be
committed to designing/ building/ evolving an ever better boat.
Part of that is how you handle warranty issues. His dealerships are
independently owned as contrasted with Nordhavn, which may be the
distinctive point which George Sass Sr. is referring to in this months Power
Cruising article on Chinese Boat Building.

Do Nordhavn owners have odor issues with their plumbing? If I don't do my
diligence, and buy a boat that is more  suseptible ( we all know that air
flow is critical) than normal, my wife will never want to go boating and
I'll be dead in the water without ever having left the dock.

Please give me your thoughts everyone, this is an open letter,

OVER,

David Evans

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Peter Sheppard <Peter at petersheppard.com.au
> wrote:

> What I see now is that PUP now has some legs. All we have to do is
> filter out (in our minds at least) the barrow pushers, defenders,
> Chicken Little's, theorists, apologists, and commercial interest folk.
> Their view is relevant to them, so let it be told anyway. We can't be
> like the lady reporting to the police about the naked man next door when
> she observes the offence from her step ladder. Don't like it - flick it,
> or don't climb the ladder.
> May I indulge myself by stating I have a Nordhavn 55. It is my first
> power boat. At 65 yrs of age this is the best indulgence I have treated
> myself with. I love it with a passion. It will take me everywhere, and I
> will circumnavigate the world (starting next July). I will have shaken
> the boat down with 12,500 nm of coastal cruising before I go after only
> having the boat for 22 months.
> I know Jack s..t about it all - still, but am learning from sites like
> this (albeit with filters on)
> What I feel is that the future of building boats will revert back to the
> original masters of seafaring - the Chinese. Added to this are their
> deep cultural and innate business skills. I've just had a future Selene
> 59 owner on board, and I drool at the respect he has been shown by the
> Chinese owner of the company. However I'm not convinced this is a better
> boat than I have today, but I will lay 20 to 1 that in a few short years
> it will be. Any takers?
> In my view the wonderful trailblazing American people have lost their
> hunger for business and its principles, and good times have made them
> fat, arrogant, and complacent. Wall Street and geographically challenged
> prospective vice president candidates are a current testimony to all of
> this.
> We can theorize, prophesize, and fantasize, but the future is clear. I
> bet someone is China is doing a PhD on anti roll stabilization right at
> this moment.
> Ones man's view.
> Peter
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