[PUP] Wiki: An idea for how to restructure the topic

[Jonathan Haas]

Friends:  OK, well, it was put up or shut up time for me.  I've volunteered to
set up a passagemaker wiki in the past, but have not followed through, mostly
due to sloth.  But, we have a very interesting thread going and lots of
interesting ideas.  So, I went ahead a set up a very basic Wiki for
passagemakers:  http://passagemaker.wikispaces.com

I confess that I stole the logo from Nordhavn's webpage, so I hope they don't
sue me for copyright infringement.  That of course is also open to change. 

This is only a preliminary first draft, so please don't jump on me right away
for putting in or leaving out stuff.  The purpose of a wiki is to allow the
community to edit the information and I/we can invite anyone we want to be a
contributing member of this wiki.  Georgs K. has offered to support a wiki,
but I didn't want to commit him without his permission and agreement.  This is
my first effort at a wiki, and I know it still needs to be adjusted to make it
as user friendly as possible.  I am willing to serve as overall
editor/moderator (in case some of our wonderful members get up on the wrong
side of the bed and express their discontent in delightful and poetic - though
not always appropriate - language); however, the wiki is open to all and I
have no intention of editing content.

On a personal note, I am NOT an expert on trawlers or passagemakers.  I do not
own a boat, and have never owned a boat.  I have no stake in anything other
than a lively, informed  source of information on passagemakers.  There is a
selfish motive to my endeavors.  My wife, Winifred, and I will be buying a
passagemaker in the relatively near future and we would really appreciate
learning as much as we can from the collective expertise of the PUP group as a
whole.

All the best,

Jonathan Haas

--- On Thu, 11/13/08, Ross Anderson <10and2 at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ross Anderson <10and2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM - An idea for how to restructure the topic
To: kenw at talkspot.com, "Passagemaking Under Power List"
<passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 7:13 AM

I agree on changing focus to systems and construction, especially for
those that are "First timers" or moving from coastal to offshore and
passaging. As I have said before as a previous owner of Seahorse, a
53' Skookum (Great sea kindly boat in tough conditions) to our new
custom built 47+2 Duck I don't believe there is a perfect design that
fits all conditions. Since most reading this blog will buy used in a
various stages of condition and I imagine in the 300 to 750K price
range a discussion on retrofitting I think would be a good topic. I
know after both retro-fitting and building new that improvements and
up-grades are done almost annually. In addition, the relative
longevity of systems being considered before major and costly repairs
from our personal experiences might also help those who are thinking
of new or used. God Bless - Ross - 10&2

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Ken Williams <kenw at talkspot.com> wrote:
> As many people have said, there is no such thing as a Perfect
Passagemaker.
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has different budgets,
> cruising plans, and comfort needs. No one boat can be perfect for
everyone.
>
>
>
> That said, here's a thought for the group. Could we swap the topic to
> "Things to think about when buying a Passagemaker?".
>
>
>
> Hardly a week goes by that I am not contacted by someone who is putting
> together a boat order, and asking my advice in selecting equipment for
their
> boat. I tend to have lots of opinions, and certainly share them, but
suspect
> there is a better way to do this, than for new boat buyers to contact each
> of us, and solicit our opinions one by one. Worst yet, most don't know
> anyone to ask questions of (other than their salesman, which can have
mixed
> results), and don't know what questions to ask.  I suspect many of you
get
> these same queries. Perhaps it is possible to pool our thinking and come
out
> with a simple list (or book) we could email to people that gives them lots
> to think about (and, hopefully doesn't frighten them).
>
>
>
> Specifically, I'm suggesting that to the extent we want to continue
this
> discussion, and convert it to something that might have some real merit,
we
> consider changing the goal for the discussion. I am suggesting we break a
> passagemaker into its component systems, and then think about the kinds of
> decisions that someone should be thinking about as they  pick out the
> systems for their boat, OR, as they do a refit of their boats. My thought
is
> that there are lots and lots of options and upgrades that are never
> considered because people weren't smart enough to ask the questions.
>
>
>
> If we were to do this, I'd say that a basic ground rule should be that
there
> are no wrong answers. Virtually any device or option has a place in the
> market. One device might be better suited to someone on a tight budget
than
> another. Different devices (decisions) have pros and cons. An option that
> makes no sense on a million dollar boat that will rarely leave the dock,
> might be a "must have" on a half million dollar boat that will
be
> circumnavigating. For instance, I would argue, with respect to
> stabilization, that active stabilizers, paravanes, anti-roll tanks, and
the
> complete absence of stabilizers, are ALL valid options. Which is
"the" best
> solution for a particular buyer depends on the buyer, and what they plan
to
> do with the boat. As a group, we can probably outline what the options
are,
> and what the criteria are that someone might want to think about as they
> choose "their perfect passagemaker."
>
>
>
> I was thinking we could slice the pie something like:
>
>
>
> Hull
>
> -          Material
>
> -          Type of hull (semi-displacement, displacement)
>
> -          Aft pilot house, forward pilothouse
>
> -          Narrow beam, wide beam
>
> -          Etc
>
> Propulsion
>
> -          Twins vs singles
>
> -          Get home options
>
> -          Props (normal, feathering, hundestat)
>
> -          Transmissions (normal, v-drives)
>
> -          Etc
>
> Interior
>
> -          Sound proofing
>
> -          Layout
>
> Electronics
>
> -          Options for internet (vsat, bgan, wifi, cellular, ocens, ssb,
> etc)
>
> -          Nav systems
>
> -          Auto pilots
>
> -          Radars
>
> -          Sonar
>
> -          Monitoring Systems
>
> Watermakers
>
> Electrical Systems
>
> -          Shore power converters
>
> -          Isolation transformers
>
> -          Step up/down transformers
>
> -          Grounding
>
> -          Shore power cables
>
> -          International power
>
> -          Generators
>
> Ground Tackle
>
> -          Anchoring
>
> Tenders
>
> Misc
>
> -          Licensing
>
> -          Taxes
>
> -          Davits
>
> -          Fuel (polishing systems, bladders, ???)
>
> -          Security systems
>
>
>
> I only had a few minutes to think about this list, but suspect the group
> could easily double it in size, and that each of us has good information
> about each of these categories, and what the right option is at different
> budgets, and cruising plans.
>
>
>
> Were we to work this list in a organized manner, one system at a time,  I
> suspect we would come out with something that would teach all of us a
great
> deal (via learning from others), plus be of tremendous benefit to newbies,
> and even ourselves as we think about refitting our boats.
>
>
>
> -Ken Williams
>
>  <http://www.kensblog.com> www.kensblog.com
>
> Sans Souci, Nordhavn 68
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