[PUP] PPM Stability

Tue Nov 11 22:59:44 EST 2008

Thanks Keith.

I think we all have good intent and I hate to see George's designs or (anyone
else) get wrongfully criticized.

I stood up for Diesel Duck 13 years ago in my revision of "Voyaging Under
Power" as a good alternative to a production "high cost boat".

Nothing I've seen in subsequent years would cause me to regret that positive
review of his design.

Thanks very much for your kind message.

I better shut up now!!!!

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com
[mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
Keith McGregor
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:45 PM
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Stability

Easy, JIm.  I have followed most of the posts relative to the PPM and I am
not aware of anyone throwing you or anyone else to the dogs.  Surely you
would agree that not everyone is going to like or prefer your boats over
someone else's.  You and your team build Nordhavns that are beautiful,
extremely capable and expensive.  I say expensive only in the sense that
they cost more than most people's homes.  I am certain that they are worth
every penny your owner's pay.  No one has said or implied that you or George
aren't providing value for you customer's money.  The thing here is that
most people will never be able to afford such a vessel.
  I believe that Scott, when he originally broached this topic, intended to
inject a little fun and energy into the PUP list by asking what the listees
here thought would make the perfect passagemaker.

Jim wrote:
Don't let them get you down George. I would have give up twenty years ago
when
our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.

Sure glad you didn't give up!  George, Too!

Keith

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Jim Leishman <jim at nordhavn.com> wrote:

> George...
>
> Let them design the perfect Passagemaker and price it out, get it built,
> market it, sell it and then warranty it.
>
> You can't be more upset than I me over some of these guy's postings.
>
> Success - isn't without its price, you become a target for these guys.
>
> Don't let them get you down George. I would have give up twenty years ago
> when
> our second Nordhavn 46 caught fire due to our faulty design.
>
> Hang it there George...
>
> Very Best Regards,
>
> Jim Leishman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com
> [mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
> George Buehler
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:08 PM
> To: Passagemaking Under Power List
> Subject: [PUP] PPM Stability
>
>  Bob you silver tongued thang Ok, I'll answer this but I ain't getting
> into regular postings.
>  You folks need to realize this whole SUBJECT is ridiculous.  Ya know
> why?  because there is NO SUCH THING as a PPM.  And the reason for that
> is there are many many different ideas about what people want to do
> cruising.   Each one has a boat that to be "ideal" must meet different
> criteria, and few overlap to being ideal for something else and not one
> of them is "better" than another one because each specialized idea is
> just that; a specialized idea.  And when that specialized idea is put in
> a different situation than what it is ideal for then suddenly it isn't
> ideal, but often can do it.  IDLEWILD was ideal for the start of the
> trip.  I suspect she was pretty good doing the NW Passage too because
> she could run up on ice and was less likely to get frozen in.  But I'm
> not brave enough for that record making passage she made to Australia,
> even though shallow light boats, when handled competently, are very
> safe.  The Vikings proved that one 1,000 years ago.   Me, I want brute
> strength in inclement situations.
>    Do you see?   Nobody can say they have the "PPM."  All they can say
> is they have a PPM for what their intended use is.  So you must decide
> what type of cruising you want to do then pick a design planned out for
> that use.
>    Far to many designers and production factories push pure hype that
> what they do is the Cat's Ass.  From my point of view many are actually
> dangerous in many situations, and almost all are ridiculously
> complicated and expensive..  But to each his own.  Hate seeing folks get
> sucked in to things I KNOW are so often an overpriced mistake but it
> ain't my bidness....
>   OK, that's all I got to say about that.  Now I got to get back
> reading up about shotguns and bird dogs.  Did you know that English
> Springers like my boy Bodacious are the oldest domesticated hunting
> dog?  And full chokes and 7/8 oz loads explode clay targets as good as
> the normal 1-1//8 oz and IM chokes but of course require a more exact
> aim.  Fascinating stuff!
>
> George
>
> bob england wrote:
>
> >"go boff the neighbors dog" classic Beuhler. And yes, that was toned down.
> I
> >for one am honored to have George post on this list. Maybe if we offend
> him
> >enough (it'll take a lot) he will continue to write. His boats have Ben
> (pun
> >intended) the world over and continue to do so today. He advocates
> building
> >cheap but capable and has designs that are proven to be cheap and CAPABLE.
> His
> >boats may not be featured in Norhavn iIlustrated (passagemaker), but they
> are
> >still out there quietly getting the job done. Geoge Buehler would be a
> great
> >help in designing the PPM, and along with our other illustrious
> contributors,
> >could lend credence to our cause.
> >_______________________________________________
> >http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
> >
> >To unsubscribe send email to
> >passagemaking-under-power-request at lists.samurai.com with the word
> >UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
> >
> >Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
> Productions,
> formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
>                George Buehler Yacht Design
>             P.O. Box 966, Freeland, WA 98249
>           Telephone & Fax: (360) 331-5866
>        http://georgebuehler.com & http://dieselducks.com
> _______________________________________________
> http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
>
> To unsubscribe send email to
> passagemaking-under-power-request at lists.samurai.com with the word
> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
>
> Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
> Productions,
> formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
> _______________________________________________
> http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
>
> To unsubscribe send email to
> passagemaking-under-power-request at lists.samurai.com with the word
> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
>
> Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
> Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
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To unsubscribe send email to
passagemaking-under-power-request at lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.

Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.