[PUP] Any suggestion - or PPM should die ?

[John Marshall]

I suppose there are other approaches as you say... we could still be  
putting blocks of ice in our ice boxes at home too. And coal in the  
basement to shovel into the fire. The first few cars I owned didn't  
have air-conditioning (one didn't have a heater either). People still  
live in cabins in the woods without running water or indoor plumbing  
and burn wood to stay warm.

No, we don't need any of the newer things, but I'm betting that few  
people on the list would want to go back to shoveling coal and hauling  
ice blocks for their house, not to mention driving 1950's cars.

I don't see the attraction in doing that in a boat either. A good  
liveaboard long-range cruising boat, IMHO, should reflect  
approximately the same level of technical sophistication and comfort  
of our cars and homes.

Which begs the decision on direction... a small $300K primitive (but  
admittedly very reliable) boat, or something between $500K and a  
million that has modern equipment and comforts, ala our houses and cars.

Instead of endlessly debating this, I say lets put it to a vote and  
then proceed accordingly. Those who want to participate can the do so.

John Marshall
On Dec 10, 2008, at 6:34 PM, 2elnav at netbistro.com wrote:

>> Hello, could we ask all the sailors on here to look at not the top  
>> 600K
>> trawler but put their experience to making a good seaworthy small
>> passagemaker, and what a small passagemaker would need. I think it  
>> is good
>> to look at the top of the market knowing the products which have  
>> world
>> wide reputation but when you have to put your mind to the economical
>> solution and making the budget solution there may be a different  
>> story.
>> Any thoughts ?
>> Regards
>> David
>
>
> REPLY
> One thing that is quite obvious to me.  Back in the late sixties  
> when I
> first got into boating we did not have so many conveniences and  
> personal
> comfort equipment. Not that I am opposed to comfort and convenience  
> but
> how about reading any of the accounts by globe trotting cruisers  
> like Hal
> Roth, Eric and Susan Hiscock, in and Larry Pardey, Bob Bebee; not to
> forget more recent cruisers like Ben Gray in Idlewild and Steve  
> Dashew. In
> recent months I have heard people say in a slightly disparaging tone  
> that
> these people are minimalist or that the speaker isn't into camping  
> out or
> willing to live in a college dormitory type environment. The point is
> these were the pioneers who proved it could be done.
>
> The common denominator these days seems to be a degree of self  
> indulgence
> rarely heard of in earlier times. That's fine if you can afford these
> things, but lets admit they are not essential. Having clean tanks to  
> store
> potable water in is essential.  Having a spa complete with hot and  
> cold
> running showers, mistings and water massage is not. For that matter  
> is a
> full size bathtub really critical?  Some  cruisers in bygone days   
> hung up
> a black plastic bag to get sun warmed showers. Ok ok  I admit this  
> may be
> going beyond the pale and so does blocking up the cockpit foot well to
> make a tub. But you know what I mean.
>
> There are critical systems and then there are other systems. It used  
> to be
> potable water was delivered to the sink with a foot pump as a  
> conservation
> measure. For regular clean-up you used salt water. Nowadays it seems  
> you
> are deprived if the RO water maker cannot deliver 600 GPD for multiple
> fresh water showers for every crew member each day.
>
> A main cabin stove was once considered the height of luxury and  
> comfort.
> Today it has to be a central hot water hydronic heating system,  
> preferably
> by Kabola ($14k)  but if you go cheap you get a Webasto or Espar  
> ( only
> $6k)
> AT one time cruisers used blocks of ice and a refrigerator was a  
> luxury.
> Today a fridge is the norm and most also have a freezer. But even  
> that is
> not enough. The better equipped cruising boat must also have ice  
> makers
> and a wine chiller. And Garbage disposal in the sink drain!  Quite  
> apart
> from the question of using these in some jurisdictions, is this  
> really the
> way to treat our environment?
>
> Have our collective self indulgence gotten in the way of common sense?
> How many cruising people can still navigate with pencil, paper and a  
> stop
> watch. How many can actually take a celestial sight and reduce it to a
> plot? We take it for granted that instant positioning to an  
> accuracy  of
> less than a boat length is the norm. Its very nice but is it  
> essential?
> (I'm ducking for cover)
> The list is endless. However the list of "absolutely essential"   
> systems
> hasn't changed that much and will not be greatly different, be it a 36
> footer or a 76 foot luxury megayacht.
>
> Drinking water, food storage,  propulsion fuel,  cooking facility of  
> some
> kind (forget gourmet cooking) and a dry warm bunk to sleep when off  
> watch.
> Those are the essentials. Almost everything else becomes comfort  
> systems
> of ever increasing complexicity. And the more complex, the harder it  
> is to
> maintain, not to mention being expensive.
> Hey if you have the money, by all means indulge and enjoy!  But  
> there are
> other approaches.
>
> Arild
> old timer who started in wooden boats
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