[PUP] PPM in general - what should it be ?

[John Marshall]

Hannu, et.al.	
	I was trying to make the same point as Ken about high usage of these  
production trawlers. Every Nordhavn owner I know is planning on  
spending many months each year on the water, whether coastal or blue- 
water. These boats are always in motion. And the reason folks like  
myself get to participate in these discussions is because we have  
"gizmos" that let us stay on the Internet while at sea instead of  
sitting at home talking about trawlering. 	
	
	I happen to know of a group of Nordhavns, full of "gizmos", who are  
going to leave Seattle this spring to cross the Bering Sea and explore  
Siberia. Why? Because they'd taken their boats most everywhere else  
and want to open new cruising grounds.

	Yes, older and wealthier is the model, and its true that some of us  
(like my wife and I) got into this with little experience. But we're  
not inexperienced now. After cruising the last 13 out of 20 months in  
our Nordhavn, in all kinds of weather and seas, we're not exactly  
newbies anymore. We'll also be out on the boat for 75% of this coming  
year. We maintain the boat ourselves, and we'll be safe and have all  
the comforts of home every step of the way.

	The point is that an inexpensive trawler is just fine for many folks,  
and it opens the door for those who can't invest large sums. I don't  
disparage that... I think its fantastic, and hope to meet such boats  
and their owners in far-away places. Once you are weeks away from a  
marina, the cost of the boat makes little difference. The experiences  
are common and shared.

	But I'd rather you didn't continuously disparage people who have  
decided to spend more money on their boats, or imply that they're less  
safe or whatever. I'm not so sure I'd want to be traveling on your  
concept of a radar-less passagemaker approaching the fog-shrouded  
Siberian coast, with the gathering storms of the Bering Sea behind me.

John

	

	
On Dec 7, 2008, at 8:21 AM, Ken Williams wrote:

> Hannu: There is much I disagree with in your last posting.
>
> You said: "... Their target market is obviously older, wealthy,
> inexperienced people who want to "try trawlering" and value seemingly
> important things like sub-zero refrigerators and "apparent safety" and
> "systems" - here, some irony is intended..."
>
> I'm assuming you are referring to the production boats, such as  
> Nordhavn. As
> a Nordhavn owner, I will plead guilty to "older", and perhaps even
> "wealthy", but greatly dispute that Nordhavn owners fit into any  
> kind of
> inexperienced category. Nordhavn recently captured some stats on  
> Nordhavn
> owners. The average miles run per boat was 14,394 nautical miles.  
> Even the
> littlest boats, the N35, averaged 9,800nm. There are certainly some  
> newbie
> owners, but they don't stay newbies very long. I would wager that the
> percent of Nordhavns with captain's licenses is consistent with, or
> outweighs, any other category. I would also think that the number of  
> miles
> run, with the small number of incidents, in virtually every major of  
> body in
> the world, gives statistical evidence that the safety systems are  
> far more
> than "apparent safety."
>
> You said: "... Just read a post from a gentleman who says would not  
> go to
> sea without some $$ gizmo (Iridium sat phone) Some have said the  
> same for
> radars. I disagree, so does the commercial world (most coastal  
> trawlers do
> not have radar), but let everyone buy whatever they want..."
>
> Radar is not optional on a trawler. I understand that there are  
> plenty of
> people without it, but, were these people standing before me, I  
> would argue
> passionately that they are going to get into trouble sooner or later  
> without
> it. My recollection from Captain's class is that there is even a  
> question on
> the Master's exam asking "What is the most important safety item on a
> boat?", and the answer is "radar". I would also argue that a sat  
> phone is
> not purely a "high bucks gizmo" on any serious passage maker. If  
> something
> ever goes wrong off shore, and you wind up in a raft, the sat phone  
> will
> look pretty good in your ditch bag. As nice as SSB is, it can't be  
> counted
> on for fast, clear, communications in a hurry when you need to get a  
> message
> out.
>
> I still think the whole "perfect passagemaker discussion" is  
> somewhat off
> base. I contend that there is no one perfect passagemaker, and that  
> the best
> the group can do is to discuss the pros and cons of individual  
> systems, and
> recognize that there may be better systems at one price point than  
> another.
> I would contend that the "perfect passagemaker" for Bill Gates,  
> might look
> different than the "perfect passagemaker" for a retired postal  
> worker. For
> every system, there are multiple options available at different price
> points. I would propose that there is a way to discuss the options
> available, without disparaging either the people at the top of  
> bottom of the
> economic scale or those who ran successful businesses. I worry that  
> the
> discussion could become "What's the cheapest boat that can move from  
> point A
> to point B in relative safety?" Boat manufacturers would love it if  
> it were
> that easy, but they have to make multiple models, and then customize  
> them,
> because every buyer has a unique budget, and a unique set of needs.
>
> -Ken Williams
> Nordhavn 68, Sans Souci
> www.kensblog.com
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