[PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage
Highlan875 at aol.com
Highlan875 at aol.com
Tue Dec 2 08:57:50 EST 2008
Hello everyone:
Here is new technology that might provide efficiencies to power generation
and storage. There's examples that old batteries were brought back to life,
which in itself is a money saver.
Energenx, Inc., has developed core technologies based on an electromagnetic
hybrid motor/generator, and on a new methodology for an improved charging
process for batteries. This technology is used for the development of new energy
supply systems, battery charging systems, and a new generation of electrical
motors/generators. The Back EMF Permanent Electromagnetic Motor/Generator,
makes use of several unique scientific and technical concepts that have been
advantageously used and promoted by inventor John Bedini for many years
_Directory:Renaissance Charge Device by Energenx - PESWiki_
(http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Renaissance_Charge_Device_by_Energenx)
Jim Hughes
Money Yoga is Consciously Transforming People's Relationship with Money.
_Money Yoga Seminar Series_ (http://www.moneyyogaseminar.com/)
In a message dated 12/2/2008 12:00:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
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Today's Topics:
1. PPM Electrical generation & storage (Bob Frenier)
2. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (2elnav at netbistro.com)
3. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (2elnav at netbistro.com)
4. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (Ross Anderson)
5. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (Ross Anderson)
6. Re: PPM Electrical generation & storage (Ron Rogers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:44:21 -0500
From: "Bob Frenier" <frenier at hughes.net>
Subject: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage
To: <passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Message-ID: <4DE0C4D4306D48E2BCADFA103E232723 at bob>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? I care not
whether a PPM will emerge; it has been educational and entertaining reading
the
thoughts and opinions of listees. Good to have this list active again
Regards,
John
"Seahorse"
I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing thread:
How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM?
In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset and
maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine. That advice
seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin Plate Pure Lead
("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to charge the battery with
considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit. A good starter question,
then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be charged from how deep a
discharge? And does the answer to that mean we could have some truly BIG
alternators on that wing engine to do the job?
Regards,
Bob Frenier
Bob Frenier
Chelsea, VT
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:09:11 -0800 (PST)
From: 2elnav at netbistro.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage
To: "Passagemaking Under Power List"
<passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Cc: passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com
Message-ID:
<60189.208.181.70.31.1228180151.squirrel at cluster.abccomm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please?
> John "Seahorse"
>
>
>
> I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing
> thread:
> How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM?
> In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset
> and maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine.
> That advice seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin
Plate > Pure Lead ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to
charge the
> battery with considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit.
> A good starter question then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be
> charged from how deep a discharge? And does the answer to that mean we
> could have some truly BIG alternators on that wing engine to do the job?
> Regards, Bob Frenier
REPLY
If I might add a little something to the discussion. The cost of lead has
escalated in recent times. In addition, light weight has proven to be a
desirable aspect of cruising boat design. Especially in power cats but
also in other boats.
It begs the question; does it really make sense to lug around a ton or two
of lead batteries in order to never go below about 25% depth of discharge?
So far conventional wisdom has suggested that avoiding severe depth of
discharge promotes long life in the house batteries. By doing this we end
up buying a huge bank of lead acid batteries, suffer the penalty of
powering this large mass around with our propulsion engine and on occasion
suffering a premature failure due to some miscalculation or other or
omission in maintenance.
Have we reached a point where the cost involved means it is cheaper to go
for deeper depth of discharge and live with only four years of battery
life but save on fuel burn by reducing the run time on the genset. And
since each change out of the battery bank involves less mass it cost
correspondingly less.
I'm thinking we need to consider total life cycle costs over five years
or more rather than just the initial cost of acquisition.
regards
Arild
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:09:11 -0800 (PST)
From: 2elnav at netbistro.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage
To: "Passagemaking Under Power List"
<passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Cc: passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com
Message-ID:
<60189.208.181.70.31.1228180151.squirrel at cluster.abccomm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please?
> John "Seahorse"
>
>
>
> I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing
> thread:
> How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM?
> In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset
> and maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine.
> That advice seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin
Plate > Pure Lead ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to
charge the
> battery with considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit.
> A good starter question then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be
> charged from how deep a discharge? And does the answer to that mean we
> could have some truly BIG alternators on that wing engine to do the job?
> Regards, Bob Frenier
REPLY
If I might add a little something to the discussion. The cost of lead has
escalated in recent times. In addition, light weight has proven to be a
desirable aspect of cruising boat design. Especially in power cats but
also in other boats.
It begs the question; does it really make sense to lug around a ton or two
of lead batteries in order to never go below about 25% depth of discharge?
So far conventional wisdom has suggested that avoiding severe depth of
discharge promotes long life in the house batteries. By doing this we end
up buying a huge bank of lead acid batteries, suffer the penalty of
powering this large mass around with our propulsion engine and on occasion
suffering a premature failure due to some miscalculation or other or
omission in maintenance.
Have we reached a point where the cost involved means it is cheaper to go
for deeper depth of discharge and live with only four years of battery
life but save on fuel burn by reducing the run time on the genset. And
since each change out of the battery bank involves less mass it cost
correspondingly less.
I'm thinking we need to consider total life cycle costs over five years
or more rather than just the initial cost of acquisition.
regards
Arild
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:15:13 -0500
From: "Ross Anderson" <10and2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage
To: "Passagemaking Under Power List"
<passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Message-ID:
<e6abc54b0812011715i7fc6222fgd471ed3cc28be269 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I see little reason to have a gen set unless you are opting for
electric stoves etc which I think are very inefficient. I prefer using
the pony motor (aux. power) as a charging method for the battery bank
with a large alternator, which ever battery technology you prefer, and
inverters for the electrical output. I find propane better for cooking
and you don't need a noisy genset running all the time while on the
hook. God Bless - Ross
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Bob Frenier <frenier at hughes.net> wrote:
> Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please? I care not
> whether a PPM will emerge; it has been educational and entertaining
reading
> the
>
> thoughts and opinions of listees. Good to have this list active again
>
> Regards,
>
> John
> "Seahorse"
>
>
>
> I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing thread:
> How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM?
>
>
>
> In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset
and
> maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine. That advice
> seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin Plate Pure Lead
> ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to charge the battery with
> considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit. A good starter
question,
> then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be charged from how deep a
> discharge? And does the answer to that mean we could have some truly BIG
> alternators on that wing engine to do the job?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Frenier
>
> Bob Frenier
>
> Chelsea, VT
> _______________________________________________
> http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
>
> To unsubscribe send email to
> passagemaking-under-power-request at lists.samurai.com with the word
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>
> Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:22:07 -0500
From: "Ross Anderson" <10and2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage
To: "Passagemaking Under Power List"
<passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Message-ID:
<e6abc54b0812011722m78e412e0gb98884bc5966e897 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Following up on Arild's comments, I used Gell type on the old 10&2 and
got 9 years out of them and only changed them because I was planning a
trip around the Horn and didn't want to get stranded in the
puckerbrush.Now use ADM type and so far they seem fine. I do not
profess to know the technical issues involved but found the Gell's and
ADM's answer my needs. God Bless - Ross
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 8:09 PM, <2elnav at netbistro.com> wrote:
>> Gentlemen, can we carry on with the PPM discussion, please?
>> John "Seahorse"
>>
>>
>>
>> I still love the PPM discussion, too. Here's a potentially arousing
>> thread:
>> How are we going to generate and store electrical power on the PPM?
>
>> In the past, Arild has advocated (persuasively, to me) using a DC genset
>> and maybe making that big enough to serve as a good wing engine.
>> That advice seems even more persuasive when we consider that new Thin
> Plate > Pure Lead ("TPPL") battery technology claims to be able to
> charge the
>> battery with considerably more speed than an ordinary AGM unit.
>> A good starter question then, might be: how fast can a big TPPL bank be
>> charged from how deep a discharge? And does the answer to that mean we
>> could have some truly BIG alternators on that wing engine to do the job?
>> Regards, Bob Frenier
>
>
> REPLY
> If I might add a little something to the discussion. The cost of lead has
> escalated in recent times. In addition, light weight has proven to be a
> desirable aspect of cruising boat design. Especially in power cats but
> also in other boats.
> It begs the question; does it really make sense to lug around a ton or two
> of lead batteries in order to never go below about 25% depth of discharge?
> So far conventional wisdom has suggested that avoiding severe depth of
> discharge promotes long life in the house batteries. By doing this we end
> up buying a huge bank of lead acid batteries, suffer the penalty of
> powering this large mass around with our propulsion engine and on occasion
> suffering a premature failure due to some miscalculation or other or
> omission in maintenance.
>
> Have we reached a point where the cost involved means it is cheaper to go
> for deeper depth of discharge and live with only four years of battery
> life but save on fuel burn by reducing the run time on the genset. And
> since each change out of the battery bank involves less mass it cost
> correspondingly less.
> I'm thinking we need to consider total life cycle costs over five years
> or more rather than just the initial cost of acquisition.
>
> regards
> Arild
> _______________________________________________
> http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/passagemaking-under-power
>
> To unsubscribe send email to
> passagemaking-under-power-request at lists.samurai.com with the word
> UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.
>
> Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World
Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:35:25 -0500
From: "Ron Rogers" <rcrogers6 at kennett.net>
Subject: Re: [PUP] PPM Electrical generation & storage
To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'"
<passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
Message-ID: <001601c95426$b2823d20$1786b760$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ross, your current setup is very dangerous. Having Atomic Demolitions (ADM)
on board a pleasure boat is just asking for trouble. I can't imagine how you
have harnessed their energy to produce electricity, but you must stop. I
didn't say this, but a trip to the continental shelf is in order.
Ron Rogers
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Anderson
Following up on Arild's comments, I used Gell type on the old 10&2 and
got 9 years out of them and only changed them because I was planning a
trip around the Horn and didn't want to get stranded in the
puckerbrush.Now use ADM type and so far they seem fine. I do not
profess to know the technical issues involved but found the Gell's and
ADM's answer my needs. God Bless - Ross
------------------------------
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