[PUP] Krogen 55 Expedition vs Dashew FPB64

[John Marshall]

Most later Nordhavn 55's are coming out around $2M when equipped.  
That base price doesn't include a lot of basics, and I've heard the  
base just went up to something on the high side of $1.4.  I think  
Dashew once mentioned the replacement value of his 84 was $4 to 6M.

Hard to compete on price with Asian volume-manufactured boats, ala  
Nordhavn/Krogen/Selene unless you play the same game.

While most N55 tradeoffs go toward living space and comfort (in  
moderate or better conditions), the Dashews boats are focused on crew  
comfort in heavy weather. Both are proven, blue-water capable boats,  
but if I had to ride out a storm or hurricane, or travel for weeks in  
heavy conditions, Steve's boat is where I'd want to be. But most of  
us don't travel under those conditions.

Also, the FPB84 isn't a boat for novices. It's an amazing ship with  
everything thought out for non-fatiguing two-person passagemaking in  
weather, but you have to manually control things like its roll  
characteristics by pumping water from below up/down to tanks over the  
cabin, also fore and aft. That allows tuning the boat for maximum  
comfort in nearly any set of conditions. But if you don't know what  
you're doing, you could get in trouble. So to Scott's question, the  
motion characteristics of the Dashew boat are dynamically tunable.  
Steve's design is totally focused on maintaining optimum roll rates  
and pitch moments, which have be retuned as you change conditions or  
heading. But not a problem while crossing oceans if you're a sailor.  
Sailors are used to trimming and tuning with wind and conditions.

Unfortunately, at 80+ feet long and 13 foot beam, with single level  
living spaces, it's got far less interior space than my N55. Unless  
the FPB64 is beamier (which would defeat a lot of the advantages),  
interior spaces are going to resemble a sailboat.  But then, the 84  
was billed as the "un-sailboat".

But if you have cruising plans like the Dashews (leaving Seattle in  
September to wind up in Europe and then take the northern route back  
through Norway, Faeroe Islands, Iceland, Greenland, Labrador, etc as  
the ice melts), then you need a boat where the tradeoffs all go one  
way.  Not too many Nordhavn, Krogen or Selene owners would be willing  
to take on that itinerary with full confidence.

His real market, IMHO, is sailors who have done a circumnavigation or  
two (just to get their feet wet <grin>) and who now want to do the  
same in the comfort of a powerboat. Very specialized market.

John Marshall
N5520-Serendipity
Sequim Bay, WA

On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Scott Bulger wrote:

> I wonder what the base price of the Krogenn 55 and the Dashew FPB64  
> are?  I
> believe a Nordhavn 55 is usd $1.3M, but you can tack on another  
> $250k -
> $500k to fit it out.
>
> What I really wonder is if Dashew will bring his boat to the market  
> at an
> attractive price, considering how he plans to deliver it, complete.  I
> assume he's trying to do the same thing Ruben did with the Island  
> Pilot and
> drive cost down by standardizing and minimizing the variables.  It  
> will be
> very interesting to see if they can pull it off.  I don't think  
> Dashew is
> known for providing particularly "value priced alternatives"?
>
> It's interesting, FPB64 seems to have gained some beam compared to the
> FPB84?  I didn't have time to look at the specs, but to a laymans  
> eye it
> looks like it has more relative beam?
>
> I wonder how these boats compare to the long thin trawler Bruce  
> Jones is
> building in Turkey?  Bruce, care to comment?
>
> It's interesting that you now have some real alternatives for passage
> capable yachts.  It's also interesting that Dashew has taken such a  
> diverse
> path.  I wonder how many couples will opt for the purpose built
> functionality of the FPB64 versus the luxury and accommodations of  
> the K55
> or N55?  I sure think a couple could handle the FPB64 more easily  
> than one
> of the monster 55's towering off the water.  What I would REALLY  
> like to see
> is a plot of accelerometer readings for several boats in the same  
> sea state.
> Dashew claims to slice through the waves while big fat trawlers are  
> reported
> to pound into them.  How he engineers a boat to surf downswell is  
> beyond me.
> I guess it's his sailboat knowledge and experience.  Seems to me  
> that sharp
> pointy bow would bury itself in a heartbeat resulting in a pitch  
> pole or
> broach.  Finally I wonder how many couples there are out their making
> passages?  I'll have a better feel for the demographics as we head  
> south in
> a few weeks.  If 50% of the boats out there are couples only, how  
> big a boat
> is really needed?
>
>
> Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com
> [mailto:passagemaking-under-power-bounces at lists.samurai.com] On  
> Behalf Of
> John Ford
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 7:43 AM
> To: Passagemaking Under Power List
> Subject: Re: [PUP] New Krogen 55 Expedition
>
> Ok, I spoke to Larry Polster of Krogen Yachts about a few of the
> questions initially.  I'm sure one of them can jump on and answer the
> questions if we want.
>
> 1) The hull construction is identical to the 58, 48, 44, and 39.
> 2) The boat uses the same hull design(canoe shaped).
> 3) The reasons given for the twins are that a single with a get home
> engine have:
> 	a) Less Draft(about a foot less)
> 	b) More speed in the event of a engine failure
> 	c) better stability in a following sea.
> 	d) just in case you want to know the boat is Triple skegged.
> 4) In answer to John of Seahorse's comment the boat has active
> stabilizers.
> 5) I believe they have already sold at least two sight unseen(I heard
> that a month or so ago) so it may be many more by now.
> 6) As of now I believe the flybridge is not a option.
>
>
> FYI, I think the boat looks much like the 48 whaleback but updated
> and much better looking.  In fact one of the sales guys of Krogen
> jokingly refers to it as a "Uber Whaleback".
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