[PUP] The Global Adventure

[Scott E. Bulger]

Mike commented:  I also once tried to join the Nordhavn
users group and was denied as I did not own one.  Part of
their 'successful marketing program'? Now PAE's smile has
that dead upper lip look from too much botox to the wrinkles.

There are many important/fun/tragic/useless lessons to be
learned from each other's experience and yes, Nordhavn are
spectacular boats in my opinion.


Scott suggests:  Mike, I must agree with part of your observation, but I'm
confused by the botox comment?  I guess I'm just thick?  Regarding the
policy of an owners only forum:  I started a west coast Camano forum.  When
I asked the other owners if they wanted an open or closed forum the vast
majority said they preferred a closed one.  They wanted to avoid the kind of
questions you get in a general forum like "how long does a diesel engine
last".  They wanted to make sure the issues were relevant to their boats,
and that's why they preferred it be closed.  I can't tell you the rational
employed on the Nordhavn Owners forum, but I can tell you 95% of the
discussion is "I want to run a cable from here to there, what panel to I
have to remove?".  Or, I had a breaker trip and found out the wrong breaker
was installed, better check yours", kind of things.  Most of that is of no
interest to non Nordhavn owners.

Having said that, there is exchange between people like Milt Baker or Scott
Strickland that is INVALUABLE.  But guess what?  They post the same stuff on
PUP!  Often I've seen Milts postings in both places, so we really aren't
missing anything.

A final thought because you struck a nerve in your last thought.  I too
believe there are some lessons out there that the boating community has not
been able to benefit from.  When the tragic accident occurred in Florida
preceding the Nordhavn Atlantic Rally there was very limited discussion of
the specifics of the accident, and how to avoid it.  We did learn a boat was
hung up by the stabilizing fin and an anchor line and drifted back on a
sailboat.  When the crewmember positioned herself between the two boats she
was crushed to death.  A tragic, tragic accident.  A Nordhavn 62 was driven
up on a beach in Mexico and a crewmember died, yet today there are no facts
associated with the accident that can be used for others to benefit from.
It's no mystery as to why, look at the recent Earthrace accident.  When
property is damaged, or worse yet people are killed, there are moral,
personal and legal ramifications to the incident that have dramatic
influence on many lives.  Unlike aircraft accident review boards, I don't
know that marine accidents have the same kinds of protections built in so
witnesses can put their knowledge forward without fear of reprisal or
prosecution.  This practice goes back a long way when industry
representatives realized they had to protect witnesses to accidents in order
to get all the facts to make aviation safer.  Additionally, a forum like
this is probably the last place you want to discuss something of such
complexity and emotion because of the difficulties in communicating by email
with so many participants.  A simple statement can be interpreted so many
ways that trying to discuss anything is challenging.  Heck we can't even
agree on COLREG issues, how can we discuss a complex accident?  I'm being a
bit extreme in this example, but the fact does linger that there are things
that happen where good, productive discussion would be beneficial, but it's
difficult to do effectively in this medium.

In summary:  The Nordhavn Owners forum isn't a branch of the Free Masons or
anything like that, and if you think about it, those members already bought
their boats, so I don't think it's part of their Marketing Plan :)
Secondly, there is real value in discussing these issues, but we have to do
it very carefully, as husbands, fathers, mothers, sisters and others
directly involved will likely read this someday.  Everything should be
written realizing the person I'm discussing may have a wife or mother or
father read these comments, I better be very aware of how someone else would
interpret this comment.  With that in mind I think beneficial discussion can
be conducted.

Sincerely, Scott Bulger, PUP List Admin