[PUP] The right boat

Fri Jul 27 03:32:19 EDT 2007

Obvioulsy the right boat is different for every persons. What surprise me is
that people do not put fuel consumption high on their wish list. Would it be
because fuel is cheaper in the States? If so how long will that be? Fuel
consumption was definitely one of the reason that made us choose for Tad
Robert's Passagemakerlite 46plus. No you do not have as much space as a
Nordhavn. We have been live aboard for the last ten years always on sailing
yachts from a 34 ft to a 42 ft. Our passagemakerlite 46plus will have a big
owners cabin forward and a office/guest cabin. Two engines, 3000 liter fuel
(sorry US friends you will have to convert it your self). Another major
factor for us was the classic look of the design we really love it. Our boat
is being build here in South Africa for  350 000US $ no that does not
include aircon and washing machines , where ex-sailors remember we do not
cruise with caravans. That bring the boatmore to a budget a "normal" guy can
afford without having to sell an IT business or be in the oil industry.
www.passagemakerlite.blogspot.com
www.ataraxia.talkspot.com
www.passagemakerlite.com

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> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:00 EDT
> From: Truelove39 at aol.com
> Subject: [PUP] The Right Boat
> To: keith at anastasia3.com, JohnPH at Comcast.net
> Cc: passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com
> Message-ID: <bdb.16af7f74.33d9e8dc at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> 1.  Get home, yes. Powerful. We wish our 27HP Yanmar were about
> 60HP.  That
> seems to be about where newer get-somewhere engines are these days,  and
> likely
> that is what would be needed to just keep position in a real  blow, say
> nothing of getting anywhere.
>
> 2.  A large bilge pump, electric clutch-driven off the main engine and
> piped
> to  the forepeak as well as the ER and is in addition to large electric
> pumps
> in  each space.
>
> 2A.  A watertight collision bulkhead.
>
> 3.  There's not much talk about fire on these lists, but it's every
> professional  seaman's worst nightmare. This was drilled into me when I
> was working as
> an  oiler on a Getty tanker. The first place you go upon reporting aboard
> is
> to  your fire station, then your lifeboat station. IMO, the puny fire
> extinguishers  we all carry would be totally inadequate for a real
> conflagration. A
> quality 3/4  inch garden hose with a standard nozzle set to the fog
> position  can
> remove a lot of heat from a fire and perhaps save the life of someone  who
> is
> afire, God forbid. This of course requires a good pump and some  thought
> as
> to how to power it.
>
> 4. Manual  backup (paravanes) for fin stabilizers.
>
> 5.  An enclosed aperture with Spurs on the shaft.
>
> 6.  A keel that the boat can stand on.
>
> 7.  Attachments and tackle for the emergency tiller.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
> "Seahorse"
>
>
>
>
> >  Full displacement hull to get #1, and some sort of reliable get-home
> power.
> I'd suggest to the originator of that question to get Robert
> Bebe's  "Voyaging
> Under Power". It goes into all that.
>
>
> ----- Original  Message ----
> From: John
> Harris
>
>
> 1) RANGE > 3,000 miles i.e.  adequate to reach any
> point on earth with
> reasonable routing  adjustments.
>
> 2) Stabilizers of any
> kind, passive, active, compensating  or whatever,
> without them life is to
> uncomfortable - sometimes.
>
> 3)  Water supply - a water maker or >200 gallons of
> tankage or both. We can
> get along easily on 10 gallons a day or with
> rationing on 5, so that  allows
> for 20 to 40 days of water.
>
> Other thoughts ?
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
> at
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>
>
> ------------------------------
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>
> From: Keith McGregor
>
> Alan,
> Would you care to expand on some of your reasons for not choosing Buehler?
> I am quite enamored with his Diesel Duck line of boats and am interested
> to
> learn what it was that made you go in a different direction relative to
> picking a designer.  I've read his books and websites, and I really
> appreciate his approach to designing passagemaking capable boats
> _______________________
>
>
> Sure . . . . .
>
> I got the "design and build your own" bug back in late 2003 when I read
> Buehler's book -- The Troller Yacht Book -- and found that there were few
> choices for ocean crossing boats under 60 feet with three cabins (a
> requirement" of ours because of two kids of different sexes).
>
> The information from the Diesel Duck site did spark my interest --
> especially the price tag.  Interested me enough to order the design study
> drawings.  When I got them and spread them out to look closely I really
> did
> not like the design a lot.  They were "OK" and would work -- but I was
> worried about what I perceived to be lack of visibility from anywhere but
> the pilot house.  It also seemed like it was pretty close quarters
> below.  I
> don't think that the 55 Duck had been started at that time and the 462 was
> the largest available.  It didn't seem big enough for what we wanted.
>
> I remember spending part of a weekend in the backyard with a tape measure
> and "creating" the different cabins and spaces with blue construction tape
> on my driveway, trying to get a feel for the Duck space.
>
> I exchanged a couple of e-mails with Buehler (I may have even spoken to
> him
> once) and with quite a few with Duck owners (at the time there were not as
> many as there are now).  I couldn't get any real information on whether it
> couyld be "stretched" into what we did want.
>
> All in all -- if I was single (or perhaps young and childless) and wanted
> to
> tackle the challenge of circumnavigation with austerity the Duck would
> merit
> a closer look.  No question it can do it and it seems that there may be
> some
> cost advantages.  But (and it is a big but for us, it looked to me as if
> the
> "typical" Duck was very Spartan -- almost like a bachelor's pad, but in a
> boat.  I wanted something more roomy and something that was "couple
> friendly
> and "kid friendly."  I just never got the "feel" that the Duck would make
> me happy year after year after year.  That was important because we wanted
> to essentially swap the house for a boat and spend the rest of our healthy
> lives on it.  That demanded more than just an ocean capable boat (which
> the
> Duck certainly is).  It demanded an ocean capable home that was robust,
> roomy, three cabins, etcetera.
>
> Frankly, we wanted something a little more luxurious that the Duck could
> offer.  Luxurious is not the right word because it conjures up thoughts of
> Jacuzzis, 24/7 generators, satellite Internet and the like.  We don't
> expect
> to live like Tiger Woods, but we don't want to feel like we were back in
> the
> college dorm, either.  In the end, the Duck seemed more college dorm that
> we
> wanted and it did not meet our three cabin requirement that would allow
> the
> kids to visit or, later, one kid (and husband and grandchild).
>
> I also read all the Bruce Roberts books and information as well and
> finally
> ran into Kasten's site and the wealth of information available there.  I
> sent e-mails and questions to a bunch of designers, including Bueller,
> Roberts and others.  While they did respond and did not just blow me off,
> the responses and detail of information I received from Kasten was
> overwhelming and of immense help and value to my "what I want," "what can
> I
> pay for," "what do I really need" hand wringing.  Kasten's generosity in
> responding to my "what about this," "how about that," "what will it cost"
> etcetera questioning had me gravitating toward him and, when I did finally
> make the plunge to start the design/build adventure Kasten was a natural
> choice, as I had become very trusting of him and his thoroughness.
>
> If you are doing the design/build "thing," picking a designer and a boat
> (and, later, a builder).  Involves a decent measure of that unquantifiable
> feel" or "gut" for what you think is right and what you think you will be
> happy with.  While that is also part of the selection of a production
> boat,
> I think that it is a little more important, or at least a part of, the
> custom boat process.  In large part that is because most custom designs
> don
> t have much if any "track record" -- as would a Nordhavn or Krogen,
> etctera
> buy experience.
>
> In the years that have passed since I first made my decision there have
> been
> a lot more Ducks built and more of a track record with that design -- so
> Beuhler may be now somewhere in between the "pure" custom design/build and
> pure" production extremes.  In that respect my 2003 de-selection of
> Buehler
> and selection of Kasten, in no small measure based on an as informed as I
> could be "gut" feel is now nearly 4 years old and the Ducks and Buehler
> now
> have four years more history to consider.
>
>
> Alan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:31:12 -0400
> From: John Ford <johnpford at mac.com>
> Subject: [PUP] News Release from Gibralter Spain about Milt Baker and
>         Company..
> To: Passagemaking Under Power List
>         <passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
> Message-ID: <0F7D633F-98E1-490F-94AE-9286298BCEEE at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Just neat to see listee's names in the press.
>
> http://www.bymnews.com/news/newsDetails.php?id=12755
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:35:18 -0500
> From: "bob Austin" <thataway4 at cox.net>
> Subject: [PUP] Suitable boats
> To: <passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
> Message-ID: <008f01c7cfee$64012070$6801a8c0 at your0cdc4f5844>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>         reply-type=original
>
> There are many smaller and less expensive boats very suitable for the
> Coastal cruising.  I have seen Grand Banks 36 and 32 safely cruise to
> Mexico
> and further.  Another boat I have seen several places along the Coast is
> the
> single engine Rough Water 41-42, probably the most boat for the $$$.
> (Consider the large windows, leaks, and potential deck softness problems)
> But the RW is a Monk design and not a bad hull.  Certainly the Ocean
> Alexanders are right up there, and I have already mentioned the Choey
> Lee's.
> The Defever Long Range Cruiser 40 is another boat which is often ignored,
> and one has gone from Calif. thru the Canal, and eventually around the tip
> of S. America, back up to California.  Most of the Defevers are capable of
> these coastal passages.  Of course the Hatteras LRC series qualifies.
>
> So is passagemaking about crossing oceans, or about coastal cruising--and
> where is the line?  I would certainly consider a boat which has the range
> to
> circumnavigate S. America, a coastal passagemaker...
>
> Bob Austin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:37:26 -0500
> From: "bob Austin" <thataway4 at cox.net>
> Subject: [PUP] The right boat.
> To: "Passage under power"
>         <passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
> Message-ID: <009601c7cfee$afd2c3a0$6801a8c0 at your0cdc4f5844>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The reason I put a water maker high on the list of a passagemaker is not
> the
> quanity of water, but the quality.  300 gallons will do for most any
> passage.
> But it is getting pure water which can be an issue.
>
> Bob Austin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:12:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
> From: "Alan Wagner" <Wagner.Florida at verizon.net>
> Subject: [PUP] Arild and the design build "thing"
> To: <passagemaking-under-power at lists.samurai.com>
> Message-ID: <46A95487.000011.01012 at ALAN>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I was sitting here tonight talking with Debbie about my recent post  on
> our
> design adventure and, in doing so, I realized that I would be horribly
> remise not to mention our very own listee, Arild Jensen, who I got
> involved
> after the Kasten design was nearly finished and right as were selecting a
> builder.
>
> Arild explored some alternative get home, electrical propulsion ideas I
> had
> (that in the end were not practical), but in doing so I hired him to
> design
> the electrical details of Passage of Time and he did a marvelous job.  It
> is
> an often overlooked area that is most frequently left by the designer to
> the
> builder.  Arild really focused me on the entire electrical setup, looked
> at
> what I had put on my specifications list and made some hugely significant
> suggestions in changing the refridge and air conditioning system
> components
> for better energy usage.
>
> In the end I think I ended up with a very elegant electrical design that I
> am thoroughly delighted with and which is in many respects quite unique.
> Thanks to Arild, I was able to scrap the third engine (the stand alone
> generator).  My "get home" engine doubles as the generator, but delivers
> DC
> power, not AC, to the batteries and the inverters via two huge alternators
> (it's a 24v boat).  The John Deere main engine has an identical pair of
> big
> alternators, so whenever the main is running the entire boat is fully
> powered as if there was a generator running, but there isn't.  When the
> main
> is running, for instance, the air conditioner is available if we want to
> stay cool, without the need to start the generator (the wing).
>
> Arild was a gold mine of help on an extremely important part of the design
> and I hope that he forgives me in failing to mention him before this.
>
> Alan Wagner
> Tampa
> With Passage of Time under construction
>
>
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-- 
Peter Jacops
Melkhoutsingel 29
Houtbay 7806
South Africa
+27 (0)21 790 5905